WHY are used video games bad?

[Snowalker]

The simple problem the developers/publishers have is that every time one of thier games is preowned and bought again, they lose money because they dont get paid for the game being preowned, and the guy who bought it preowned now isnt going to buy a fresh one.

So yes, it is a money thing.

Maybe those developers/publishers could take a look at [font color="red"]literally any other industry[/font] and see how deal with this extremely common and legitimate phenomenon.

It is essentially a money thing, there's actually an episode of Extra Credits that goes into this subject a little bit deeper.

But like they said in that episode, if you go buy a new game from GameStop or something, only a small percentage of that actually goes to the developers of the game. If you buy a game used from GameStop, none of it goes to the developers.

So yeah, used games may be awesome for the player because they're cheaper, they really don't do the developers of the game any favors. I only buy used games if it's something I wanna play, but don't really have all that much support for.

If it's a game company you're trying to support and want to see more from them, it helps them out a lot more if you buy it new.

Like right now, I'm part of the crusade to help get Ace Attorney Investigations 2 localized in the states. The best way to do this is to try to convince people to pick up new copies of any of the AA games (yes, it hasn't been an easy task)

Don't you think it is kind of odd that when we buy games, we are apparently supposed to worry about who is getting our money, but if you buy anything else you don't. I mean, if I buy a used car, nobody is going to make a big deal about Wayne Enterprises not getting any of my money even though they built it. Why is it different with games?

Because games is a new medium, and developers go out of business day after day, thats why. Its like this, If you like Chevy Trucks, then you probably want to keep Chevy in business, right? then you find out that for 20$ (or 10$ if you're EA) you can help them stay afloat and they will give you a lifetime of repair in return on your vehicle, is it really that bad?

Sure, its not always that Ideal for both parties, but sometimes it is.

 

[Some_weirdGuy]

What's the difference between video games and cars? You don't see the auto industry bitching and moaning about used car sales. Why are video games so special in this regard? Give me a CONVINCING answer, please.

who manufactures the cars? who then sells the new cars? who then also sells the used cars?
Its the one company who owns both the manufacturing and dealerships(dealerships that sell both new and used).
(only exception is if you sell your used car to some other random used car place rather than the company who made it.)

who makes game? who then sells the games? who then sells the used games?
its multiple companies.

The new games are bought by the sellers, giving the makers money, but second hand cuts out the makers altogether.

I mean, is there a single game company that also owns the retail distribution chain? (other than digital distribution like steam) none that i know of.
and that is where your 'games and cars are exactly the same' argument fails.

 

[Dragonforce525]

Some developers are huge organisations rolling in money yes but other smaller developers are struggling. Square enix doesn't appear to be doing too well and that's a large developer. So unless we want microsoft and EA making the same thing over and over some support of the industry is needed. Also do you not picture say game, tesco or asda who all sell pre-owned games as huge organisations rolling round in money by selling something that not only did they not have to pay to make but by also giving none of that money to those who have had to invest time and money into making?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those people who only buy games if they're under £20, I would much rather pay £40 for a brand new game then wait 5 months and buy it second hand for half price at best, if a games new out and is still selling on the shelves I'll happily pay full price, but if it's kind of old and not on shelves I'm more than happy to buy it from "the bins", and you can talk about a company's financial situation all you like but it's really hard for me to feel sorry for a nameless faceless company.

So basically I think pre-owned is fine if there's no other alternative.

 

[Mordwyl]

There's nothing inherently bad about it. However, the one getting paid for selling the game isn't the developer; it's the retail store.

Then again, this applies to every other industry in the world. Say, cars. Ford manufactures 10,000 Fiestas and ships them to showrooms around the world. Right there and then, part of if not all the sales of the cars has been made to these stores. Re-selling the car you just bought nets Ford no money at all since it was already purchased. Now, imagine this vehicle giant criticising used car sales because people prefer to get a cheaper Fiesta.

 

[burningdragoon]

The only "problem" with used games sales is that the games stores are getting sell the same physical game multiple times at relatively the same price. I don't know exactly how much you can get trading in fairly new games, but I'm pretty sure the stores are making a good deal on them.

I don't get upset that developers/publishers don't like used games sales. Most developers don't actually make a great amount of money. What does annoy me is when anybody (businesses, governments, etc) say they are "loosing" money when they don't gain money. Sometimes it's a legitimate claim (like PSN being down) most of the times it's not.

 

[00slash00]

I need to know this. I buy used video games all the time. I have collections of old games from old systems, yet still I see developers getting mad about used video games and the fact that they're worse than piracy:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/110171-Fable-3-Dev-Used-Games-Sales-are-More-Problematic-Than-Piracy

Is it just because people are buying and re-buying old copies of games? Do the developers want part of that cash? Are they that greedy that they sold the game once, now they want to sell the game again and again and again? I remember hearing that some game developers are thinking of inputting serial codes for old games that need to be re-purchased every time the game is re-sold at a used game store. Oh yeah, there's no way that can backfire.

No, seriously. What's the deal? Is it just a money thing?

welcome to capitalism. its not really greedy, its wanting to be paid for something they provided. i will buy a game new if its something i really really want but all other times, i feel a little bad for not supporting the industry but...im not paying $60 for every game. fuck that. though ive often wondered why the music industry is all militant about piracy but dont seem to mind used cd stores

 

[viking97]

they are a problem because gamestop is evil.

 

[Elijin]

Personally, a combination of the retailers being bastard whores who rip us off, and wanting to know the quality of my purchase, I only buy new games.

The whole used game business I do not like at all, but its less about developers and more about the greedy greedy retailers. You know, the ones which purchased that game of another gamer for $5 and are selling it back to you for $50. Why is everyone ignoring how incredibly greedy and underhanded that is, to hate on the studios?

If a game isnt worth full price to me, I wait to pick up cheap online in a sale, or when its less popular.

Plus, new game smell. Just cant argue with that, its too gratifying.

 

[Superior Mind]

Nothing wrong with it in my book. If EA can recycle their sports franchise every year there should be no reason I can't recycle my old games.

I do have something against game stores that offer trade-ins and end up making a huge profit off re-sold games - but that's the thing, it isn't the consumers' problem or fault. If EA and their ilk want to go after the real villains instead of their customers they can crack down on game stores and make sure they play fair.

 

[Liudeius]

A used game doesn't get the developer any more money than a pirated game. Since they aren't copies, they are still subject to supply and demand, but most people who buy used would probably default to buying new games if they couldn't buy used, where as pirates in many cases just wouldn't buy them. Therefore a greater number of customers are lost to used games.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I don't think they're upset about used games so much as they're upset at Gamestop, who I'm given to understand actively tries to sell customers a used copy of a game in place of new copy. If that's the case, then I can kinda understand where their coming from.

 

[Icehearted]

I'd be more understanding if they hadn't arbitrarily jacked up prices to begin with. What's that, more money spent on development? More staff needed, better art required better paid artists, et cetera, et cetera...?

Tomb Raider Legend came out for the Xbox, the Xbox 360, the PlayStation 2, the PlayStation 3, PC, GameCube, and a few handhelds. The Xbox and PlayStation 2 versions cost $10 more than their PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 counterparts. That's 10 arbitrary wallet-pecking dollars for a game that was PORTED from older platforms.

And I'm sorry (not really) to piss on parades here, but there's no way in hell a game like Street Fighter 4 is worth nearly as much, in development costs or retail, as Red Dead Redemption or Mass Effect 2 are. Those felt like $60 games, and I was fine paying as much, but a game like SF4, that's a $40 game at retail, $30 considering things that were included with the arcade version of the game were cut and sold as separate DLC.

As long as every asshole thinks every game is worth an identical inflated premium, I will not only gladly buy used, I might even shoot an email to the dev team once in a while to let them know that I did so and why, to make a point, or just for spite.

 

[nerfando]

I mean, really, how long does one have to wait to get new games at bargain prices? 9 months or so? Less? I much rather buy "new" later on when it's cheap and/or bundled or whatever, than go through the whole merry-go-round game of "trade-in-buy-used-save-big" that Gamestop and other such retailers have coaxed gamers into thinking is SUCH a great deal. That way I know the developers are still getting at least some of my money, I'm not going bankrupt, and game retailers are that much closer to not being part of the entire process altogether.

Seriously, I consider myself a core gamer and I even went as far as getting myself a job at Gamestop once because I truly have a love for games (I was quite young and naive at the time). But the very moment I donned the title of "Game Advisor" I realized very quickly the leeching machine that Gamestop truly was/is. Now, I just buy games online, be it Amazon and/or digital distribution (I know Amazon is starting the whole trade-in games thing too, but I don't really care for it and I will not support it either).

Granted, I came in late to the whole current-gen console world because I was still having a blast with last-gen games on my PS2 and Gamecube that, mind you, were being sold for abysmally cheap prices because the new consoles had just come out and that whole rat-race makes bargain bins all the more bountiful. In addition to that, Steam also began to really come into stride and that was a whole other beast! It was GLORIOUS; a vast menagerie of cheap games to quell my hunger for digital mayhem!

And now...I own a PS3 and have been recently discovering the system's first generation of games that are all wonderfully cheap and surprisingly satisfying. And I have yet to beat all the games in my Steam library still, mind you. So I really don't see why anyone would feel the need to buy used at all. Unless of course, one has the insatiable need to always be current with whatever new hype is out AND is counting pennies left and right.

Hey, I splurge on hype too, but luckily for me and my wallet, those occurrences are few and far in-between. If a franchise's predecessor impresses me I'll consider updating myself to whatever new installments are currently out or if a game trailer or game demo manages to stir interest - and I mean, GREAT interest - then, if willing and able, I'll stomach the shiny new price tag. I also do have a pool of favorite developers who I support out of sheer fanboyism sometimes (I'm looking at you CAPCOM and Valve), but I often temper these rash emotions with a simple, logical argument:

"Do I has moneyz to buyz?"
"No."
"Ok then, me no buy."

And that's it.

Overall, I like most developers. They make games. Sometimes, even good games. And good games make me a happy camper. Some developers are greedy sure, but I'll be damned to be the first to throw that stone. Support the ones you love if they have earned it. If not...patience? It's a virtue, I've heard. Games, they get cheap and cheap ones already exist, MANY OF THEM.

Want to really support the medium? Expand your tastes. Try new types of games. A new genre. A new platform. A new community. The cornucopia is teeming with untapped greatness. Discover a hidden gem? Pass it on to your friends. Blow their minds at how much fun a cheap, indie game can be, maybe. I personally love discovering a great game that barely cost me anything to attain: Defense Grid on sale for $2.49 on Steam, MY FUCKING GOD, MAN! SERIOUSLY?!

But hey, I don't want to ridicule the buying of used games or anything of the sort:

"Paying $55.99 for a $60 game? Dude, that's a steal."

"It only took me 4 trade-ins! And wait, I can save an extra 10% if I subscribe to your Preferred Customer Program for the nominal fee of only $15.99? Dude, it pays for itself in the end!"

Yea, mm-hmm, so much for counting pennies. But, to each his own, I guess.

Take my two cents if you'd like. $55.97 sounds just as enticing.

 

[zeldagirl]

Of course it's a money thing. Greedy bastards. My apologies for that outburst of aggression, It's just that all the games I buy are pre-owned.

So why do you only buy pre-owned? Because it's a money thing and you're greedy? Oh wait no, it's obviously because you don't want to feed the moneybags that the developers are obviously stashing away and you're a righteous customer. Duh. My apologies for that outburst of trolling.

But really, my apologies. I should just take it out, but I'd rather leave it in there. It may be rude, but I feel it has a point. I do agree that used games are a fine thing to sell, I think that the whole idea of gamers only buying a license to use the software is such a bunch of bs, but really you can't just blame it on developers. I don't pirate games, but I have friends who say that they pirate games because wait for it...oh yeah. They feel that the developers and publishers are just overcharging for their titles. Which they probably are. Because they spend too much on ads and hype and then too many people pirate the game so they don't make as much as they planned so they raise the prices on the next release and try to stop used game sales because they feel that they're part of the reason that they get gouged when they release a new game, leading to more consumers bitching and then refusing to buy games and continuation.

TL;DR- Vicious cycle of consumers demanding more for less leading to devs following tried and true methods leading to consumers complaining about lame games so they either pirate it or buy it used for cheap because obviously it sucks too much to pay full price leading to publishers and devs trying to limit opportunity for said piracy or used sales, and see top of cycle for continuation.

It's not the consumer's job to support the industry. It's the consumer's job to get as much as he can for as little as possible.

I can't afford to pay for all the games I want at full price, and if there was no used market, I probably wouldn't buy at all. However, there is a used market, and it's a legitimate industry on its own. The reason the developers hate it is because they can't get the money from it.

On the other side, if I buy the game, it's my property. I decide what the fuck I'm going to do with it. Maybe I sell it. Maybe I keep it. Or maybe I use it as a coaster. Once the company has shipped their units to the store, and once I've exchanged money for the game, the company doesn't get a say about what happens next.

You make a good point. The onus is not on the consumer to help keep the developer afloat in that sense. Because even more so with the video game medium than others, a large portion of consumers are kids, teenagers, and young adults who simply don't have the finances to BUY every game new. Buying pre-owned is essentially to some in order to actually experience games, period.

Rather, the developers need to find some way of legally working with retailers who sell pre-owned games (like GameStop). The responsibility should be with those two parties to work out some arrangement so that developers get some money back, or at least have greater control over finances and don't lose out that way. But, they can't put this on consumers. The consumers are the ones who are grateful to them, who want to get their hands on games - the consumers are who they make the games for. Instead, they have to focus on finding a solution with the retailers.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

It has the exact same effect piracy has, so to say one is less morally acceptable than the other just because one is classed as illegal despite them both causing exactly the same problems for game developers is pretty silly to me. Because of this I choose to believe that both are Okay provided you buy the games you really want to support, particularly on the PC where buying used or even renting is not really an option. As a PC gamer, thats what piracy is to me, its my rental option to fill the gap where none exists.

 

[Darknacht]

What's the difference between video games and cars? You don't see the auto industry bitching and moaning about used car sales. Why are video games so special in this regard? Give me a CONVINCING answer, please.

Car manufactures make a lot of money selling replacement parts. This is way cars are built cheep so they break down and need new proprietary parts from the manufacturer. Imagine if game disks were built to wear out after a year. I don't think that would be better.

 

[tehweave]

Apparently I incited some kind of massive flame war because after posting my last comment and going away from my computer for about 6 hours I had 15 replies to my comment about 'companies being greedy' and people calling me a 'big fat dickhead.' (That last part was paraphrased a bit... A lot.) Let me first say that I was not trying to troll, that was merely my cynical side being... Cynical.

Secondly, I spoke with a friend of mine who likes to do this thing called 'reading.' (Whatever that is.) He said that apparently this whole 'companies disliking used stores' is nothing new. Bookstores, music stores, video stores, all of these have gotten flack in the past from the publishers/producers because they're selling their merchandise at a lower price and making a 100% profit off of it without the companies seeing anything else.

Now, if you can't already tell, I know nothing about business nor about running a company or store. But why is it such a big deal if someone buys a book/movie/album/game from you for full price, sells it to a second-hand store, and someone else buys said merchandise and the second-hand store takes the full profit? It's not the full price, and you ALREADY got the 60 bucks for the game when it was brand-new. (I'm using a video game example now...) How exactly do you lose money from that?

Hm... Could it help if used game stores gave a small fraction of their profit to game companies? Is there a way to do that without causing them to close down? School me, Escapist. I need to understand exactly WHERE companies are losing money on this.

 

[Bek359]

What's the difference between video games and cars? You don't see the auto industry bitching and moaning about used car sales. Why are video games so special in this regard? Give me a CONVINCING answer, please.

Car manufactures make a lot of money selling replacement parts. This is way cars are built cheep so they break down and need new proprietary parts from the manufacturer. Imagine if game disks were built to wear out after a year. I don't think that would be better.

Fine then. How about used books? Used clothes? Used EVERYTHING ELSE that is not a consumable product? Why is it only the video games industry that is subjecting us to this irritating wangst? "Waaaaa, it's not FAIR! You don't know what it's like for us!"

 

[Ilyak1986]

Of course it's a money thing. Greedy bastards. My apologies for that outburst of aggression, It's just that all the games I buy are pre-owned.

So why do you only buy pre-owned? Because it's a money thing and you're greedy? Oh wait no, it's obviously because you don't want to feed the moneybags that the developers are obviously stashing away and you're a righteous customer. Duh. My apologies for that outburst of trolling.

But really, my apologies. I should just take it out, but I'd rather leave it in there. It may be rude, but I feel it has a point. I do agree that used games are a fine thing to sell, I think that the whole idea of gamers only buying a license to use the software is such a bunch of bs, but really you can't just blame it on developers. I don't pirate games, but I have friends who say that they pirate games because wait for it...oh yeah. They feel that the developers and publishers are just overcharging for their titles. Which they probably are. Because they spend too much on ads and hype and then too many people pirate the game so they don't make as much as they planned so they raise the prices on the next release and try to stop used game sales because they feel that they're part of the reason that they get gouged when they release a new game, leading to more consumers bitching and then refusing to buy games and continuation.

TL;DR- Vicious cycle of consumers demanding more for less leading to devs following tried and true methods leading to consumers complaining about lame games so they either pirate it or buy it used for cheap because obviously it sucks too much to pay full price leading to publishers and devs trying to limit opportunity for said piracy or used sales, and see top of cycle for continuation.

It's not the consumer's job to support the industry. It's the consumer's job to get as much as he can for as little as possible.

I can't afford to pay for all the games I want at full price, and if there was no used market, I probably wouldn't buy at all. However, there is a used market, and it's a legitimate industry on its own. The reason the developers hate it is because they can't get the money from it.

On the other side, if I buy the game, it's my property. I decide what the fuck I'm going to do with it. Maybe I sell it. Maybe I keep it. Or maybe I use it as a coaster. Once the company has shipped their units to the store, and once I've exchanged money for the game, the company doesn't get a say about what happens next.

StarCecil makes a terrific point here. In my mind, I buy a used game (why pay full price for something I can get at a deep discount), or pirate one (why pay anything for something I can get the full benefit of for free?), because as a consumer, it's my job to get as much stuff I want for as little resources of mine as possible. As a producer, I want to get as much money for as little labor as possible. If I don't get enough money for the work I put in, I'm not going to make anything. If the market will provide a demand for my stuff that can be converted into money in my pockets (or I believe (however mistakenly) that there is), I'll make a widget in an attempt to sell it.

As a consumer, I really can't care less about the producers of, well, just about anything. See, that's the beauty of capitalism--there's this wonderful thing called competition, and when one producer/firm/whatever you want to call them goes out of business, the remaining firms eat up their market share and life happily continues. So long as there's a profit to be made and the costs of entry aren't ginormous (and software is probably the easiest field to create a new property in--after all, all you need is a computer and some specialized software, some of which may even be freely available for download from a community such as the R statistical programming language), then there'll always be nimble small firms willing to try their hand. I mean you *do* know that Google started from a rented garage in a house owned by two girls with a server whose rack was built out of LEGOS, right?

What does that mean for me as a consumer of video games? It means I can buy used (or the P word FOR ARGUMENT'S SAKE, since I know how that word is utter heresy around here) to my heart's content because I really don't care what happens to any individual developer. If one goes bust, odds are, there'll be another developer that created some game I can get on the very cheap or free depending on my moral scruples.

At the end of the day, developers need to realize that rational consumers will try to get as much of their something in return for as little something of their own as possible.

And honestly, I don't see why consumers should have such bleeding hearts for producers.

I certainly don't. Know why?

Because to game developers, I'm nothing more than a sales statistic--just a tiny tidbit of the magical market forces that buy their product and pay their rent. And to me, they're faceless entities out of whom comes some sort of circular little piece of plastic (in fact, not even that anymore) that allows me to have some fun.

I mean heck...know one of the biggest selling point to Blizzard's RTSs (Warcraft and Starcraft)?

They don't just sell you the one game. They sell you every other custom game you can find players for. Such as Smashcraft, DotA, etc. etc. etc...and in order to get to play all of those games, well, I have to get on bnet, meaning I need a game key, which I have to order through blizzard. So the $60 is definitely worth it.

 

[Fugitive Panda]

While this phenomena certainly isn't unique to video games, there are several unique circumstances that make pre-owned sales a much bigger issue for game developers than they currently are for most other mediums.

After all, you don't often see someone buy a DVD, watch it once, then return it to put money towards another DVD. No, movies are easy to see, and there are numerous ways to go about it. Same with books, so when you buy them, you tend to buy them for life. But a lot of people don't do that with games, especially since they're getting more and more expensive. People buy a new game, beat it, then return it for some money towards the next game. But that used game is then sold for less than a new one, and none of the used profits go to the developers.

This continues to happen, and eventually, there are more than enough used copies being passed around that the shiny new copies are forever on the shelf, and this puts a significant dent in profits. It's not greedy to want to profit from your product.