Actually, cows such as they are wouldn't exist in the wild at all. Over thousands of years of intensive domestication, we've selectively bred away most of their survival mechanisms. Hence domesticated bovine breeds are slow (but still fast enough to charge you and trample you, as a few unfortunate dog-walkers have found out) and very stupid. That's because they're basically meat and milk machines.
Bulls and buffalo (and other wild bovine species), on the other hand, can definitely outrun many things.
I considered being a veggie because at one point, the texture of meat was making me feel sick. I've cut down on meat since then, but I don't feel as sick as I used to.
One of my friends became veggie because she caved in to peer pressure as all her friends were vegetarian too. It was quite a 'hip' ting to be up until recently.
I don't think that's the right reason to be one, but each to their own.
I'm not entirely sure of this and would ask for a source to prove it, but whatever I'll let you have it since you seem to have conceded that vegetarianism does not kill you, which was the primary point I was trying to make.
And do you realize how stupid your second point sounded? Do you honestly believe a cow can outrun a pack of wolves? Did you take a blow to the head?
It was meant to be pithy. As in, any kind of prey would have at least a slim chance of freedom, or at least a quick death, compared to the cruel captivity, torture and sad death that too many of the animals in livestock face. I'll admit it was a self-indulgent attempt at wit and not a real attempt at rebuttal.
i dont think that dude's dad was being a dick. U can eat vegatables at steakhouses, you cant order meat at a vegatarian restaraunt. So by your logic of them being civil and eating together, the steakhouse would have made more sense.
Anyway, I'd love to argue with you, but I just noticed I accidentally wrote "you're" where I meant to say "your", and I have to go have a crisis. Kthnxbye.
Ok seriously that shouldn't be any kind of argument breaker, are you just out of support or something?
On Topic: If I ever go vegetarian it will be because I hate plants. >.> And me not eating meat doesn't stop the meat thats already there from being any less dead so may as well go for it.
Excuse me? Since you can't just let something drop, frankly I don't see what there is to argue about. We've had this discussion on the escapist more times than I care to remember. I don't see how anything I say will make you change your mind about eating meat, particularly when your argument ultimately boils down to "because I want to". Likewise, nothing you say will make eating meat seem justifiable to me, and I would rather watch videos on youtube than have a pointless discussion.
But sure, I dropped it because I thought I was wrong. Do you feel smart now?
Then why am I, and the vast population of vegetarians and vegans on the planet not dead? Is the American Dietetic Association [http://www.eatright.org/Media/content.aspx?id=1233&terms=vegetarian] wrong?
You don't do anything that requires meat. Mezmer is right in saying we need both meat and veggies to survive to a point. If we were running around the savanna or being a hunter/gatherer we would need meat and other various things, but we aren't. Vegetarians typically have a lower BMI(not getting into why BMIs are horrible) because they don't have fat in their diet and because they don't strenuously work out. If a vegetarian tried to say be a body builder she couldn't. Also, food in this era is horrendously supplemented. You could live off of Twinkies if they were supplemented correctly. Hell, you could live off of an IV in your arm that pumped calories and nutrients into your body.
latenightapplepie said:
crudus said:
Both have been known to eat meat though. Hippos more so than gorillas(Hippos have even been known to be cannibalistic).
This is probably true that on very rare occasions their diets will slightly vary. I think they are technically both herbivores, though. They certainly don't have those big long canines for eating meat. Because having canines does not make necessarily make one a meat-eater. That was the point I was trying to make.
It isn't uncommon actually. Typically arises from dietary stress. The canines are meant to look threatening anyway. The difference between our canines and their canines is the sharpness. The sharper they are the more suited they are at tearing meat.
You made me LOL good sir. But if you look, we are arguing different things. I am arguing that vegetarians, and especially vegans, can be total dicks. He is arguing that eating vegetables, and only vegetables, is healthy. Unless you meant a physical battle, in which I applaud your ridiculousness. That would be kinda kick ass, though.
I don't see how anything I say will make you change your mind about eating meat, particularly when your argument ultimately boils down to "because I want to".
But technically, not eating meat is also a choice. You choose not to eat meat and become a vegetarian "because you want to!" There's no shame in it, and if he doesn't have an argument is probably because, as a meat eater, he is fine with how his life is and doesn't need to start arguments.
Oh shit, sounded like I was accusing you. Please don't take that the wrong way.
i am a vegetarian because it is cheaper in terms of money and the environment. why feed enough grain to a cow to feed 5 people when you can feed 5 people the grain?
I love meat. Meat meat meat. Quite good. I don't think I could stomach being a vegetarian.
That he was with a co-worker one day, and she said, "I know this great vegetarian place we could go eat at! Why not give it a shot, hmm?" To which my dad replied, "Okay, but first, I know this great steakhouse we could eat at! Why not give it a shot, hmm?" She replied, indignant this time, "I would never eat at a steakhouse! The idea is ludicrous! I will never try meat!" My dad did not reply to her, because it would be unnecessary to exploit such a hypocrite.
That's just silly. Your dad wasn't morally opposed to eating vegetables. Chances are he eats vegetables as well as meat in his daily diet, otherwise he would be dead or have serious health issues. The lady was saying, "you eat both vegetables and meat, but for the sake of hanging out together, would you like to forgo the meat?" Your dad decided to be rude about it and insult what she stands for. She wasn't being a hypocrite; your dad was being a dick.
OT: I'm not, but once I'm in my own house and able to make my own lifestyle choices I want to become vegan to support animal rights. Even putting aside the poor living conditions of factory farms, the idea of killing something for selfish purposes disgusts me. I know it will be hard, though, because I've grown up eating meat and, frankly, I like the taste.
She was being hypocritical. She was trying to convert him to vegatarianism, without being willing at all to change her own viewpoint. His dad probably did have a moral opposition to people telling him how to live his life, which is what she was trying to do. Even if she was being subtle about it.
OT: I eat meat, and i love it. I've heard the arguments, but i personally see no moral reason to stop eating meat. My body has canine teeth, only one stomach, and forward facing eyes; seems god wanted me to eat meat.
Anyway yeah I sympathize with her in this story. The way you (PrimothePro) described it is she made a friendly suggested and he replied with a rude, dickish comment. She dealt with it by acting superior and then your dad decided to pass a tale of outsmarting a overly-sensitive vegetarian to his kid.
See, she wasn't making a friendly suggested comment, she was trying to make him a vegetarian. I didn't outline this in the story, but I did reply to someone else,
Sorry for offending you, old chap, I just thought it was funny, seeing as most vegetarians treat it like a religion, and tend to force it down anyone else's throats. It just irks me that they have this "High and Mighty" philosophy, this "Holier than thou" ideal. Not all the time, true, but for me, in my own life, many who are vegetarians have been smug about it. Again, sorry my story upset you, but I don't think my dad was being a dick, seeing as she tried to make him a vegetarian every damn day he worked at that office.
I boldened that last bit to show what my point is. Vegetarians tend to be snooty. Not all of them are, I know this to be true, but some think that they have revolutionized their world, and should bestow that upon everyone else. Including people who don't want it.
I'm not a vegetarian, mainly because I don't see the point. If someone is a vegetarian because the want to be more healthy, more power to them. But if they're a vegetarian because "Meat is murder" than they can stick their own self-righteous head up their ass.
Because eating meat is the natural order of things. It's the way it's been for thousands of years, and just because cows are cute doesn't mean we should stop. There is nothing more annoying than a pompous douchebag telling me what I can and can't eat.
Well mister, let me tell you that the human species wasn't initially omnivorous; how do you think the first human, no tools and no weapons, managed to eat a cow? That said, I don't eat meat, yet right now, meat has become an important aspect of human progress and economy. My vegetarianism is more a personal thing so maybe you should try to stop saying that all vegetarians by choice are uninformed douches because you'll just come off as ignorant, or at least you just did to me.
I'm not entirely sure of this and would ask for a source to prove it, but whatever I'll let you have it since you seem to have conceded that vegetarianism does not kill you, which was the primary point I was trying to make.
And do you realize how stupid your second point sounded? Do you honestly believe a cow can outrun a pack of wolves? Did you take a blow to the head?
It was meant to be pithy. As in, any kind of prey would have at least a slim chance of freedom, or at least a quick death, compared to the cruel captivity, torture and sad death that too many of the animals in livestock face. I'll admit it was a self-indulgent attempt at wit and not a real attempt at rebuttal.
I am glad you are civil about this whole argument. I don't have a problem with Vegetarianism, I have a problem with the people who think they're morally superior to others because of it. Luckily you do not seem like one of them.
And don't get me wrong, I agree that most animals are mistreated with the way they're grown and harvested these days. It's really quite sad. But that's what happens when Food becomes a business. Trust me, I was disgusted with Tyson and all those other guys after watching Food, Inc. But there are also a lot of farmers that treat their animals with the respect they deserve. (And I actually think slaughterhouses do the deed quite efficiently actually, torture may be pushing it a little bit. It's really blanketing to say almost all animals are treated that way).
I eat whatever is on sale and is easy to make. I have gone weeks eating vegetarian because I was too lazy to cook meat, but then again when steak was on sale I didn't bother picking up more lettuce.
I don't understand how vegetarians can suppress the human urge to consume other animals. We are omnivores, needing both protein(Delicious mouth watering protein hmmm) and whatever the hell we get from veggies and plants.(Delicious mouth watering plants hmmmm)
I eat both, but I mostly prefer meat and fruits.
Not sure if its true but I've heard that a all veggie diet can lead to fatigue, and impenitence.
So if you are a Vegetarian or vegan, why is it? Religious reasons? For a healthy diet? Cruelty to animals? Specific dietary needs? Saving the environment from cows farts?
I originally stopped eating meat for moralistic reasons, which I still somewhat believe. I am more anthropocentric than I used to be, but since there is no need to eat meat in industrialized nations, I do not like it. In addition, I dislike factory farming as it is needlessly cruel.
Moral reasons aside, by this time eating meat just seems disgusting. I haven't done it in ten years, and it seems to me now about like eating other people may seem to most people.
Hello there brother! How have your humanitarian ways been treating you?
OT: Well I'm an omnivore so I eat both meat and plants as well as other types of food. Since humans are built to be able to eat meat I see nothing wrong with doing so, but if someone doesn't want to eat meat for whatever reason that's fine by me. I'd put in "so long as they aren't preachy about it" but that's practically a given for me.
Ugh... Another bigotry-filled thread about vegetarians. It's starting to irk me, that you can't discuss vegetarianisms without hearing "waah, all vegetarians force their belief down my throat, I want bacon!!", really, I've never met a vegetarian that tried to "force" their beliefs down my throat, sure, if a discussion about it got going, they'd defend their choice, but such discussions usually arise from people going "why are you not eating meat?".
OT: I'm a vegetarian because... Er... Don't know really, started out as a bet with my friend, that I'd be vegetarian for a month, once the bet ended, I didn't really see any reason to start eating meat again.
I haven't been eating meat since 12 years or so now. It's just my little way of trying to keep the suffering of animals that's going on a tiny bit less. And for the people who say it isn't healthy: The days I've got the flu any more or less than I did when I did eat meat. Neither do I notice any difference in my overall (health) condition.
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