Why are you a Vegetarian?

latenightapplepie

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bloodmage2 said:
torture: to create great agony with the intent to sustain life for the longest time possible, to inflict the greatest pain possible. i don't know about you, but if i ran a massive corporation, i would want my products available quick, not slow. they would die anyway, and with that your argument falls apart.
Torture is subjective and vague. You clearly define it as the pain and anguish caused in the process of eventually ending life. I define it more generally as any kind of agony or suffering, either mental or physical caused for some kind of benefit to the torturer. If I put you in a tiny cage that did not allow you to stand up or move your arms because I'm sadistic or because it saves money, would that be torture, regardless of whether I planned to eventually kill you? Of course it is torture. To argue otherwise is simply nonsense.
 

Mr.Mattress

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Jul 17, 2009
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I can't see me not eating Meat. I respect others opinions to give up Meat (And to give up anything made From Other Creatures), but it doesn't feel natural to me, especially since we are Omnivores through evolution.

Though I will admit, the way we treat most of the animals is cruel. However, these can be fixed through laws and regulations.
 

Ambi

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crudus said:
latenightapplepie said:
Then why am I, and the vast population of vegetarians and vegans on the planet not dead? Is the American Dietetic Association [http://www.eatright.org/Media/content.aspx?id=1233&terms=vegetarian] wrong?
You don't do anything that requires meat. Mezmer is right in saying we need both meat and veggies to survive to a point. If we were running around the savanna or being a hunter/gatherer we would need meat and other various things, but we aren't. Vegetarians typically have a lower BMI(not getting into why BMIs are horrible) because they don't have fat in their diet and because they don't strenuously work out. If a vegetarian tried to say be a body builder she couldn't. Also, food in this era is horrendously supplemented. You could live off of Twinkies if they were supplemented correctly. Hell, you could live off of an IV in your arm that pumped calories and nutrients into your body.
Yes, one could say we'd need meat to survive in a certain environment, but it's an irrelevant argument now because of the diversity of foods available.

I must clear up some of the unfounded claims in this post.

1. Having a lower BMI is a good thing, so long as it's not dangerously low. Vegan and vegetarian diets can provide sufficient calories (or more, if you eat a lot) to sustain a healthy BMI.

2. Vegan sources of fat come from coconut cream, oils, nuts, avocados, and seeds. Vegetarian sources of fat can come from dairy or eggs as well as the aforementioned plant sources.

3. Take a look at this guy, a vegan bodybuilder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvEH7W_w1NA and these. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vegan+athlete&aq=f

That's not even including the vegetarians, a simple google search will tell you you're wrong.

4. Supplements aren't needed in a vegetarian diet. I hear you need the occasional B12 supplement in a vegan diet, however, but some believe it's better to take a supplement than kill an animal.


I am a vegetarian because endorsing and paying for the killing of animals is completely unnecessary and I don't want to be a part of it.

The animals are already dead, yes. But every dollar that goes into that industry sustains the abhorrent practices and allows for growth of the industry. That will mean even more animals will be mistreated and/or killed. I am not "disrespecting" the animals and "making them die in vain" by not eating them.

I don't care if it is "natural" to eat meat, nor if hunting made us intelligent, nor for religious arguments. I don't care if meat was needed to get us to where we are; it doesn't matter because it's not needed to sustain our intelligence and wellbeing now. Besides, being "natural" doesn't automatically make something right.


There are economic reasons to consider too, if you care about how the consumer decisions of people like you are affecting the state of the world outside your comfortable little lives:

http://rs.resalliance.org/2007/12/09/food-prices-rising-due-increases-in-meat-consumption-and-biofuels/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-greenhouse-hamburger


For the record, I'm not the evangelistic type of vegetarian who tries to shove it on everyone else. However, if someone makes inaccurate claims about my beliefs or questions me, I will stand up for myself.

Although, I must admit I did get a little annoyed at my mum when she went and bought some ham from the cheapest supermarket whose suppliers are likely to have used factory farming right after I pointed out a poster I'd just noticed on a wall of a health food shop featuring a story about factory farming and animal cruelty, complete with pictures of the conditions the pigs were in. She just made a joke about "crying pigs" and simply did not care.
 

crudus

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Ambi said:
crudus said:
latenightapplepie said:
Then why am I, and the vast population of vegetarians and vegans on the planet not dead? Is the American Dietetic Association [http://www.eatright.org/Media/content.aspx?id=1233&terms=vegetarian] wrong?
You don't do anything that requires meat. Mezmer is right in saying we need both meat and veggies to survive to a point. If we were running around the savanna or being a hunter/gatherer we would need meat and other various things, but we aren't. Vegetarians typically have a lower BMI(not getting into why BMIs are horrible) because they don't have fat in their diet and because they don't strenuously work out. If a vegetarian tried to say be a body builder she couldn't. Also, food in this era is horrendously supplemented. You could live off of Twinkies if they were supplemented correctly. Hell, you could live off of an IV in your arm that pumped calories and nutrients into your body.
Yes, one could say we'd need meat to survive in a certain environment, but it's an irrelevant argument now because of the diversity of foods available.

I must clear up some of the unfounded claims in this post.

1. Having a lower BMI is a good thing, so long as it's not dangerously low. Vegan and vegetarian diets can provide sufficient calories (or more, if you eat a lot) to sustain a healthy BMI.
1. No, BMIs are crap. Most bodybuilders are "obese"(at least overweight), a friend of mine actually went up on the BMI scale because he started working out (he gained muscle and thus weight). Besides, if you are in the range it calls "normal" you are more likely to die before the people in the "overweight" but below the "obese" section(there are acids in your body that are attracted to fat. If you have little then the only fat is around your vital organs and thus that acid attacks those).

2. For the rest of your argument, I was more thinking of a primitive human rather than today's standards. More or less justifying why we became omnivores in the first place. I was also agreeing with you!
 

insaneHoshi

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crudus said:
Ambi said:
crudus said:
latenightapplepie said:
Then why am I, and the vast population of vegetarians and vegans on the planet not dead? Is the American Dietetic Association [http://www.eatright.org/Media/content.aspx?id=1233&terms=vegetarian] wrong?
You don't do anything that requires meat. Mezmer is right in saying we need both meat and veggies to survive to a point. If we were running around the savanna or being a hunter/gatherer we would need meat and other various things, but we aren't. Vegetarians typically have a lower BMI(not getting into why BMIs are horrible) because they don't have fat in their diet and because they don't strenuously work out. If a vegetarian tried to say be a body builder she couldn't. Also, food in this era is horrendously supplemented. You could live off of Twinkies if they were supplemented correctly. Hell, you could live off of an IV in your arm that pumped calories and nutrients into your body.
Yes, one could say we'd need meat to survive in a certain environment, but it's an irrelevant argument now because of the diversity of foods available.

I must clear up some of the unfounded claims in this post.

1. Having a lower BMI is a good thing, so long as it's not dangerously low. Vegan and vegetarian diets can provide sufficient calories (or more, if you eat a lot) to sustain a healthy BMI.
1. No, BMIs are crap. Most bodybuilders are "obese"(at least overweight), a friend of mine actually went up on the BMI scale because he started working out (he gained muscle and thus weight). Besides, if you are in the range it calls "normal" you are more likely to die before the people in the "overweight" but below the "obese" section(there are acids in your body that are attracted to fat. If you have little then the only fat is around your vital organs and thus that acid attacks those).
And having more fat is better when you get seriously sick, fat comes in handy when your connected to an IV
 

The_Chief

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PrimoThePro said:
imacharginmehlaz0r said:
you two should totally battle it out.
You made me LOL good sir. But if you look, we are arguing different things. I am arguing that vegetarians, and especially vegans, can be total dicks. He is arguing that eating vegetables, and only vegetables, is healthy. Unless you meant a physical battle, in which I applaud your ridiculousness. That would be kinda kick ass, though.
i see that. but look at how he's doing it. he's contradicting everyone else who argues any little thing about vegetarianism like he owns the place.
 

Snake Plissken

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I don't eat meat strictly on moral grounds. I came to the realization that I would not be able to kill and prepare my own animal, and therefore should not eat them. If you are capable of taking the life of an animal and preparing it and not feeling remorseful about it, feel free to eat meat. I just would never be able to. I don't get in people's faces about eating meat and don't care to. I wish people would consider moral implications of it more closely, though.
 

CrazyDave DC

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Mezmer said:

Just had some this morning. It was delicious. Imma live forever. You'll be dead, I'll be alive though.

Also I have responded to vegetarianism/veganism before here on the Escapist but let me reiterate (with different words obviously): In nature, all predators and meat eaters, hunt, kill and devour their prey. This is nothing personal, this is just because they need the food to survive and be healthy. And no, cutting meat out of your diet completely is not and never will be healthy. We are omnivores. We are not the only species who are omnivores either. To survive we need a balance of meat and plants in our diet. We are hard wired to like it, eat it and digest it. It's as simple as that. You feel bad because we're killing animals? Don't. Because out in the wild, those animals would be nothing but prey for predators. Dying in a slaughter house sounds just as bad as being chased down by a pack of wolves and having your throat ripped out. So no, I will not feel guilty for enjoying a nice breast of chicken or a juicy burger for dinner. We are animals, we are predators, we eat meat. Just because we have superior intelligence doesn't change that. It just makes us smarter. That is all.
Couldn't have put it better myself! Though I do feel a little guilty from time to time about various corporation's definitions of animal cruelty and how I continue to eat their food regardless, but that's about it.
 

Thedayrecker

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bloodmage2 said:
You chase an animal while firing a gun. Does it show fear and run? It does, just like a human would.

It seems wrong and unecessary to kill something that has the same emotions, and reactions, as a human, and is aware of an imminent death, just because you want a burger.

Again, this is how I feel, and as I said I don't care if people eat meat, it's a personal decision.

However, I do care when people challenge, and attempt to change my beliefs, when I've done nothing to provoke them, just because I don't agree with what they say.
 

PrimoThePro

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imacharginmehlaz0r said:
PrimoThePro said:
imacharginmehlaz0r said:
you two should totally battle it out.
You made me LOL good sir. But if you look, we are arguing different things. I am arguing that vegetarians, and especially vegans, can be total dicks. He is arguing that eating vegetables, and only vegetables, is healthy. Unless you meant a physical battle, in which I applaud your ridiculousness. That would be kinda kick ass, though.
i see that. but look at how he's doing it. he's contradicting everyone else who argues any little thing about vegetarianism like he owns the place.
Ya, I want to say something, but that would mean possible mod wrath, unless he came to me first, in which I would be defending myself. If ANY vegetarian says to me that I must become a vegetarian, I will flip. But until that time, nothin' doin bro. You could coordinate some sort of... manipulation if you wish.
 

soilent

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ezeroast said:
Hey guys,

I didn't want to hijack the "Could you love a vegetarian" thread so i figured I'd start a new one.
So if you are a Vegetarian or vegan, why is it? Religious reasons? For a healthy diet? Cruelty to animals? Specific dietary needs? Saving the environment from cows farts?

Just curious

Oh and are you one of those vegetarians who eats fish? Or even one that eats chicken? I'd love to hear those explained too.

Thanks
I fell in love with a vegetarian, who later decided it was a waste of her time, and I am still in love with her. ^_^

OT: I love to eat meat, lots of it, today I had Lamb in a delicious Gyro, with lettuce, tomatos, banana peppers, and black olives, sooooo gooooood...
 

DuctTapeJedi

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I was a vegetarian for four years, though I stopped now. I went veggie after seeing the movie "Babe." Yes, I was that impressionable as a child.
 

thylasos

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I'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian. I have been since I was about 14, originally for religious reasons, then I kept finding more. Environmental, economic, and health reasons.

It works for me.
 

Poketom

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As simple as I can put it...

I don't eat ANY animals because I don't like the thought of eating something that couldn't defend it's self physically or mentally.
 

Lineoutt

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Jun 26, 2009
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PrimoThePro said:
Lineoutt said:
PrimoThePro said:
Anyway yeah I sympathize with her in this story. The way you (PrimothePro) described it is she made a friendly suggested and he replied with a rude, dickish comment. She dealt with it by acting superior and then your dad decided to pass a tale of outsmarting a overly-sensitive vegetarian to his kid.
See, she wasn't making a friendly suggested comment, she was trying to make him a vegetarian. I didn't outline this in the story, but I did reply to someone else,
Sorry for offending you, old chap, I just thought it was funny, seeing as most vegetarians treat it like a religion, and tend to force it down anyone else's throats. It just irks me that they have this "High and Mighty" philosophy, this "Holier than thou" ideal. Not all the time, true, but for me, in my own life, many who are vegetarians have been smug about it. Again, sorry my story upset you, but I don't think my dad was being a dick, seeing as she tried to make him a vegetarian every damn day he worked at that office.
I boldened that last bit to show what my point is. Vegetarians tend to be snooty. Not all of them are, I know this to be true, but some think that they have revolutionized their world, and should bestow that upon everyone else. Including people who don't want it.
Mmm ok Ill let you have that. Some vegetarians can be snooty as are some people who eat meat. I am a vegetarian but I don't try to pull other people in. I just see it as a preference, I can't and shouldn't make people do anything they don't want to do. But there are people who do and from the way you described it sounded like your dad was being an ass. If she was a ***** in the first place I guess I can understand it though.
 

AdmiralMemo

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I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't eat red meat (beef, etc.). Never liked the taste. Chicken, seafood, etc. I'll eat.
 

AdmiralMemo

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DuctTapeJedi said:
I was a vegetarian for four years, though I stopped now. I went veggie after seeing the movie "Babe." Yes, I was that impressionable as a child.
I had a similar reaction, sort of. My dad had me watch Nightmare on Elm Street 3 (I think it was 3, at least). After seeing the screaming pizza, I couldn't eat pizza for a month.