Why I am not going to buy Mass Effect 3

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Frozengale

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Zachary Amaranth said:
God, that guy might not necessarily sell your point the best way possible.

His complaints about being entitled to full game content but dismissal of online passes is really ridiculous. More to the point, he assumes a lot more content than has actually been specifically stated.

Great for sensationalism, bad for anyone actually looking for honest discourse. It's not rational to assume that this is going to be integral to the plot, despite the Protheans being a major chunk of the ME canon.

And you are not entitled to it.

That being said, I wholly endorse your right to boycott a product based on feeling that you are being mistreated by the producer or that the deal as-is sucks. I think for all the shit EA's pulled, the people opting out of the game will be too few to make a difference, and the DLC will sell well enough to send the message that this is okay. But by all means, fight on.
I'm technically not entitled to anything. But I don't go around paying people to punch me in the gut, I pay them to give me something. If I decide that what they are giving me is not worth my money I don't buy it. I hate it when people say "You're not entitled to it" and other such tripe. Of course we aren't, entitled would mean they should give us the game for free. If you bought a car and the manufacture said, "Okay here's your car... by the way there is no A/C, it costs extra." Would you say, "Oh that's okay, it's not integral to the car anyways. It will run fine, do everything else perfectly. I'm fine without the A/C." No you would be pissed. A/C is standard feature, it is designed into the car from the get-go. It's not needed but it is a feature that should be there without having to pay extra.

That's what this is. They are charging us extra for a feature that would be considered standard on any other game. Sure we aren't entitled to it, we don't even need it. But we thought the company was going to be nice to us, try to take care of us, not try ask us to bend over and take it. If they commit to bad business plans we have a right to go elsewhere. Some of it is us just being whiny, but this is an industry. The customers whine, if the company doesn't fix it the customer goes elsewhere.
 

Lightning Delight

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I'm still gonna buy the game anyway because I loved the first two and have been really looking forward to the third. All this DLC doesn't really bother me, as most of it is an extra character or two or a random mission that have no effect on the game.

That being said, how the appleberry fuck does a goddamn Prothean not count as a major thing? It's a fucking Prothean. Minor characters I'm OK with as DLC, but a Prothean? That's low, EA.
(I'm not gonna blame Bioware for this because I like them and EA are dicks)
 

Frozengale

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Pluvia said:
Frozengale said:
Pluvia said:
So people say they're not going to buy ME3 because of this, which means they had the money to spare for ME3 but have now decided to not spend it on it.

So, what are you spending that money on? What in your normal day to day life is a much better investment? You don't need that money to live otherwise you wouldn't have considered spending it on trivial games in the first place, so what is better? Clothes? Drink? Extra food? What?

Why do gamers whine about inconsequential bullshit? This is pocket money, this isn't anything new that the gaming industry has invented, and I dunno about you but there's nothing that I would spend this money on that could be considered better than this.
Well I don't know about you but I like a lot of different types of games. I might not spend it on ME3 because I will have decided there are better games worth my time/money. I have a list of games/movies/books that I add to quite often and that I intend to complete one day. Right now it contains probably around 1.5k worth of things that I hope to get in the next 5-10 years. I would rather spend that 10-20 bucks on that list then on one Prothean that is Day 0 DLC. And the business move they have made makes me less likely to buy games from Bioware in the future. So now I have 60 bucks that I can instead use to buy something like Catherine. Or maybe I'll use it to buy the final Season of Avatar. Who knows.
So if you didn't really care about ME in the first place why would you care about this DLC?

Either you cared about it enough that you decided to boycott the game BECAUSE of this DLC, or you didn't care about the game much in the first place, which makes me wonder why you care about DLC for a game you don't care about?
When did I ever say I don't care about it? Mass Effect was a great game and Mass Effect 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. However I care more about not feeling like I'm getting screwed by a company then playing the next installment. Spending money is the only legitimate way I can tell a company they have done a good job. I go out of my way to make sure I buy games New, because I want the company to know in the only way I can that yes, I did enjoy their game. That I enjoy their company, and I want them to continue in the direction they are going. If I spend money on ME3 I'm sending Bioware the wrong message. I hope to be part of the Game Industry one day, so I care a lot about the direction things are headed. If I support a game and a company that I don't agree with, then I'm compromising my ideals.
 

Coreless

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SycoMantis91 said:
I think it's far from obvious that this Prothean is an integral part of the story. What did the Protheans do? They saw the Reapers come down, and then most of them were killed. The ones that weren't really didn't have much success figuring out how to stop the Reapers, they just figured out a way to hide their most important minds and hope their pods could outlast the invasion. I would actually be amazed if this Prothean has some crazy inside knowledge that no one else does. The best he/she could do is replay the attack in his/her head again. If it wasn't able to figure something out by the time the Reapers left, it's probably not going to.

I'd love to see this Prothean and talk to it and find out from its perspective about its race, the attack, etc. but I think too much is assumed when we all say "this is going to be extremely important!" We don't know that. But yea, EA does suck but I'm not surprised and will still buy this game as soon as I have the expendable cash.
For all we know at this point, this Prothean could have been on some distant planet shoveling sh** for a living and really doesn't know the whole story of what happened and becomes a team member because they find him on some abandoned world or something and he happens to be a good fighter. Is there any proof out there that is concrete about what his actual role is and just how crucial to the plot he really is?
 

Harb

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I'm not going to buy Mass Effect 3 because they explicitly took the content that was supposed to part of what you buy as a final product (since it was developed using the same resources and time, before the release date) and are now charging extra for it. And they bloody well know what they're doing, since it's a Prothean member of the team, not just some random G.I. Joe (hence it's supposed to appeal to story fans as something mandatory).
 

scotth266

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Jan 10, 2009
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First off, the comparison to Mass Effect 2's Cerberus Network. As Totalbiscut stated, you got a bunch of free little DLC pieces for buying ME2 new, including the character Zaeed and a side mission to the remains of the previous Normandy. But I don't really feel that this is comparable to the Prothean DLC, because the Prothean DLC promises to be a much bigger deal than either of those things were to begin with. The side mission to the old Normandy was little more than an interactive cutscene, and Zaeed was little more than a bit character. I'm sorry if that offends Zaeed fans, but really, all you got with him was one short mission and then he was done. The Cerberus DLC was thus little more than window dressing, and while I appreciated it, it held virtually no substance in the big scheme of things. I honestly think it wasn't even worth the ten dollars it was supposed to represent. So can you really compare this almost worthless DLC to getting a Prothean squadmate?

Sorry bro, you just don't measure up.

The next thing Totalbiscut brought up was Warden's Keep, the DLC you got for getting the Digital Deluxe edition of Dragon Age Origins. The comparison he draws here REALLY doesn't make sense, especially when he goes on later to talk about the difference between physical collector's editions and digital ones.

If you bought the physical collector's edition of Dragon Age, you got some DVDs and a map, something which you obviously can't put into a digital edition. In order to balance this out, people who got the Digital edition got Warden's Keep for free, while everyone else had to buy it. In my opinion, this is entirely justified, because you didn't get screwed if you got one collector's edition instead of the other one. Some people wanted cloth maps and "making of" DVDs for their ten dollars, while other people wanted extra DLC; the consumer got to make the choice as to which was more important to them. The only people who didn't get anything out of the exchange were the people who bought the vanilla version of the game, and even they got Shale, which was Dragon Age's ten-dollar freebie, a much better freebie than Zaeed from what I've heard.

Rock beats mercenary. Who'd have thought.

This appears to be the same strategy that Bioware is employing for Mass Effect 3. The physical collector's editions of the game come with an art book and a lithographic print, which are obviously not going to make it into the Digital Deluxe edition, or if they are (they're still listed on it) you're only going to get images as compared to an actual book, which isn't really the same. Hence, the players that get the Digital Collector's edition get the Prothean as an extra reward in addition to the DLC that the ordinary collector's editions get. That's what it looks like right now, though I can't say for sure thanks to the byzantine maze that is Amazon's and Origin's Mass Effect 3 pages.

I do agree that the Prothean is a really important thing in the Mass Effect universe. That in and of itself is pretty obvious. However, I do not agree with Totalbiscut's idea that his DLC should be free just because he is related to a critical plot point and happened to come out on day one. The reason I say this is because of Mass Effect 2: specifically, the Shadow Broker DLC.
Obviously, Liara (who was a party member in ME1) should be considered pretty damn important to the plot of the games. However she was reduced to NPC status in ME2 until the Shadow Broker DLC was announced. And a LOT of people bought the Shadow Broker DLC when it came out to unlock her. So why are people so up in arms about the Prothean DLC when they were totally willing to buy the Shadow Broker DLC?

I can think of two blue reasons.

My answer is timing. Totalbiscut makes several references about how he believes gamers are entitled to content made before the game is released, and people who complain about day one DLC in general say the same thing: that they're being sold content that was purposefully cut out of the game in order to make a profit. However, this thought process betrays a lack of knowledge regarding the way the industry works.

If you want a detailed explanation of why day one DLC isn't a scam, you can read this post: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.154083-Dragon-Age-Designer-Says-DLC-Not-Meant-to-Rip-Off-Players#3719305

However, to sum it up in a few words, day one DLC is made mostly from ideas that HAD to be removed from the full game in order to meet production deadlines. In other words, this kind of DLC is stuff that had to be sacrificed in order to get the base game out the door. Once the company is finished with the full game and has passed it off for the finishing touches, it allows the employees that aren't involved in that process (such as writers and designers) to go back and turn some of the ideas that they couldn't stuff into the original game before it shipped into actual content.
This means that Day One DLC is produced separately from the base game. It has its own budget, and its own resources, and all of that has to pay for itself. When you take this into consideration, saying that you should get the Prothean for free "because he comes out on the same day as the game" doesn't make much sense.

Honestly, the only legitimate argument I can see for why the Prothean should be free is that he's not worth the price of admission. But unless you can predict the future, no one can make that argument until the reviews come in. Hell, we don't even know what the Prothean DLC is even about: maybe the Protheans come back en masse, and this guy is just the one you get to have fight by your side. Maybe he'll be another Zaeed, or maybe his DLC will be as long/fufilling as Shadow Broker... only time will tell.

Until then, I'm not flipping tables over it.
 

RatRace123

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I really really wish that I was disciplined enough to go along with you because I also find that to be disgraceful.

But, my desire to get the game is greater than my principles apparently. That, plus I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition. I knew there was a party member that was associated with it, but I thought that it was available in every new copy (AS IT SHOULD BE!) and I didn't originally know that it was a character so important to the lore.

Yeah, those are still terrible reasons to justify my weak will when it comes to stuff like this. I'd like to think that EA would smarten up and lower the price at least, 10 fragging dollars ON LAUNCH DAY for anyone who didn't get the collector's edition. 10 additional BUCKS to make your 60 dollar game complete!
 

Freechoice

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Clonekiller said:
Take heart. EA has proven in the past that, if a policy stands to lose them money, they will change it. TB pointed this out with the controversy over Battlefield 3. If other gamers, like you, act on their beliefs, we will make a difference. One person might not be able to sway the opinion of a giant like EA and BioWare, but 1,000, 5,000, or 10,000 "one" persons can.
You mean like the petition to the British gov't about aliens?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115962-Mass-Effect-3-Petition-Demands-the-Truth-About-Aliens
 

Mrsoupcup

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To late to jump ship now, I'm just hoping I don't end up with buyers remorse.

But yeah, dick move on BW/EA's part.
 

Joccaren

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I don't care much ATM. Getting Special Edition anyway. Really, I think this may be overconfidence on Bioware's part that all their fans will have pre-ordered the special edition, whilst the new people and those who aren't 'true fans' or W/E, and thus have less of an investment in the series, will be able to better know the series and then decide to spend the extra money.
Really, I see this as being a lot like Shale in DA:O. A character from a Race that is basically extinct (Whilst Golems aren't extinct, they are rare and only bought out in times of immense danger). Some interesting stuff to be learned from them? Sure. Necessary for the game? Who knows ATM but I'm guessing not. If you don't buy the DLC, maybe Shepard just doesn't meet a Prothean. Until I've played the game and know exactly how the DLC intertwines with it, I'm not calling it a big deal at all (Though that $10 price tag does imply that it will be quite some DLC).

Actually, I've thought of a possibly better comparison. BF3 Back to Karkand DLC. Came with special edition, had to buy otherwise. Was a fan service (Karkand because it was all the good old maps, recreated in BF3, as well as some 'favourite' vehicles and such. Prothean because its really only a big deal for fans). Was entirely optional and non-necessary (Don't know about Prothean yet, but seems like what it will be).

So, really, not a big deal to me ATM.
 

SovietSecrets

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erttheking said:
So you were expecting him to write a college paper over why he wanted to buy a game...am I the only one who thinks that this website is way too freaking dramatic?
Nope! The people of this site amuse me to no end now when it comes to video games.
 

Comic Sans

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EcksTeaSea said:
erttheking said:
So you were expecting him to write a college paper over why he wanted to buy a game...am I the only one who thinks that this website is way too freaking dramatic?
Nope! The people of this site amuse me to no end now when it comes to video games.

This site thrives on hyperbole, paranoia, and mob mentality.
 

Prof. Monkeypox

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TB makes a compelling argument, I have to admit. I am loath to accept this type of behavior, even from people as prone to missteps as EA.

Dammit.... I don't even want the freaking Prothean, and I don't have XBLA to download it in the first place, but fuck, I don't want companies to get away with this sort of shit. Doesn't the fact that I preordered the damn game (something I almost never do) "prove my loyalty" enough for EA's art-sucking vampire accountants to justify letting a prerelease bit of content go to loyal customers along with the game they bought?

I don't want to have to cancel my preorder (I just talked myself into it in the first place), but I feel the need to make my displeasure known.
 

Lunar Templar

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Sober Thal said:
Damn... is there an option to link an Origin account here? If so, I don't know about it...
wouldn't be surprised if it gets added, but given the amount of hate for origin on this site, not likely.

Anyways...

I'm just a guy who likes games, and have played the Mass Effect ones since the first game...

I have no problem with them making a race that was said to be gone, back again.

Hell, the underground elves of Skyrim can come back too. The snow elves did, why not let a sect 'go to ground' again and make them relevant once more too?
^^;; i know nothing of TES, but i get the general idea. still rubs me the wrong way though, which is kinda strange since I'm not actually a fan of the series
 

SycoMantis91

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Coreless said:
SycoMantis91 said:
I think it's far from obvious that this Prothean is an integral part of the story. What did the Protheans do? They saw the Reapers come down, and then most of them were killed. The ones that weren't really didn't have much success figuring out how to stop the Reapers, they just figured out a way to hide their most important minds and hope their pods could outlast the invasion. I would actually be amazed if this Prothean has some crazy inside knowledge that no one else does. The best he/she could do is replay the attack in his/her head again. If it wasn't able to figure something out by the time the Reapers left, it's probably not going to.

I'd love to see this Prothean and talk to it and find out from its perspective about its race, the attack, etc. but I think too much is assumed when we all say "this is going to be extremely important!" We don't know that. But yea, EA does suck but I'm not surprised and will still buy this game as soon as I have the expendable cash.
For all we know at this point, this Prothean could have been on some distant planet shoveling sh** for a living and really doesn't know the whole story of what happened and becomes a team member because they find him on some abandoned world or something and he happens to be a good fighter. Is there any proof out there that is concrete about what his actual role is and just how crucial to the plot he really is?
Agreed. I'm sure there's no info about how/why he/she is found or joins the party out there. I think they only admitted what they did because of the DLC leak. I'm definitely hoping it doesn't play much of a role. It'd be an awesome element if included with the game, but as a DLC, it's something I probably won't have access to until months after I get the actual game. I only started downloading ME2 DLC about 9 months ago. If it is, I may finally give in to my growing disappointment with Bioware, at least as long as they're under the EA banner. Though I don't see how they can be stupid enough to try to get away with that.
 
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erttheking said:
Loop Stricken said:
erttheking said:
Loop Stricken said:
psicat said:
And, I am going to buy Mass Effect 3.
I have enjoyed your logical, reasoned and well-debated reasoning and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I'm sorry were you expecting him to write a thesis paper over why he wanted to buy a bloody video game?
In a thread dedicated to the reasoning behind the rationale behind one's purchase? Yes.
So you were expecting him to write a college paper over why he wanted to buy a game...am I the only one who thinks that this website is way too freaking dramatic?
No, you aren't.(By the way, a million people have probably already reminded you that "you are never the only one". And they are all idiots.[footnote]NOTE TO MODS: I don't actually know if this has happened, so I am not referring to anyone specifically. Please don't modify me.[/footnote]) The other day, I said I liked dogs more the cats (in a thread about pet preference) and someone quoted me asking for evidence to support my facts, simply because I didn't specifically state that it was just my opinion.

I WISH I was joking.

Anyway, OT: Yeah, that's pretty annoying. I mean, I believe them when they say that the game is complete without the mission, but here's the thing: It SHOULDN'T be. I'm guessing they introduce this Prothean in a way that makes it somehow NOT a big deal, (so that the game will be complete without it, so it can be DLC) but you know what? That is a HUGE fucking waste of a potentially awesome plotline, and the entire series will be worse for it. I really don't care about this from an economic perspective, but from a writing perspective, yeah, I'm kinda pissed off. That said, the game still won't be BAD, and I certainly wouldn't call this "boycott worthy". I'll still buy it, and I'll probably buy the DLC, too. Why? Because knowing Bioware, it'll still be pretty goddamn awesome. I haven't regretted buying any DLC from them yet, and judging by the steady increase in quality, I don't think I ever will.
 

Sam_Winchester

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TheDarkEricDraven said:
Do you know why I'M not getting Mass Effect 3? Because the 360 I bought just for ME3 deleted my saves just after I finished playing ME1 and ME2. Oh, no, they didn't delete them, they were still there, the fucking console just refused to recognize they were there.

So fuck that. I'm not playing two goddamn games AGAIN. Because that wasn't the first time I played them, oh no. I played those same games over and over and over on my PC. Every time I had to reboot my computer or get a new one, I played both again. But no more. Fuck you, Microsoft. You ruined something I was really excited for.
...You do realize that this wasn't at all the point of this thread, right? Your post has nothing to do with the DLC or anything. There's other forum threads for that.

OT: I really don't care about the hype/outcry surrounding this DLC personally because I have preordered the Collector's edition, I was expecting to pay for day 1 DLC anyways, and I trust Bioware. Really, I think that's what it comes down to. Yes, Dragon Age II wasn't meeting everyone's expectations, but Mass Effect has been around for longer than that, and I don't think Bioware's going to let anything bad happen to one of its flagship titles. Bioware has not made a bad Mass Effect game and I've enjoyed every DLC that they've given to the first two games. I have complete trust that they aren't going to let something like this go bad. And on the subject of having a price tag on it at all, I mean, really, it's only going to be seven bucks for those who don't get the Collector's edition. You're playing a $60 game on a system that costs at least three times that. If you somehow don't have a budget for these things at this point, then play other, free games, because maybe this model isn't for you.
 

lacktheknack

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erttheking said:
Loop Stricken said:
psicat said:
And, I am going to buy Mass Effect 3.
I have enjoyed your logical, reasoned and well-debated reasoning and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I'm sorry were you expecting him to write a thesis paper over why he wanted to buy a bloody video game?
A thesis STATEMENT would be nice. I have no idea why he's going to buy it.

OT: No. I haven't even played Mass Effect 2 because money.