Wonder Woman and Justice League films are said to be disasters. Is this the end of the DCEU?

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The problem with the DCEU is they just can't seem to set a consistent standard. Marvel has been branching out more and more lately, but each movie is very internally consistent feel wise, and they have a very solid base to work. DCEU is much more conflicted and doesn't have that solid base. At times they are trying to be popcorn flicks, other times serious, other times comical, and they don't seem to be able to get the right balance of any of them.

I recently watch B v S and there was the potential there for a great flick... but it was squandered with really jarring tone shifts and inconsistencies. This quirky Lex could have worked in a more comical type movie, but most the movie is played serious. And then there is that infamous 'I thought she was with you' line... why didn't they edit that out?! It was totally out of place in the scene. There is some great spectacle for a popcorn kind of flick, but again it tries to tell a serious story which was unfortunately disjointed, and there wasn't enough spectacle to make it great for that... The sad thing is I think it was very close to being a pretty good movie, but they just couldn't bring it together.

You can place the tonal shift with the comedic elements not clashing well with the serious tone due to the criticism leveled at Man of Steel for being TOO serious.

I mean we went from Zod who was a great villain in Man of Steel to this version of Lex Luthor in BvS who is clearly trying to fill the void of the Joker in The Dark Knight.

>Zod
>great villain
Pick one.

Hey man he was quite a tragic villain. He lost his home world and all he wanted was to make a new Krypton on Earth.

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

"A foundation has to be built on something"

That something happens to be life.

But why?

Becuase Superman has the Codex. If you had watch the movie you know what the whole point of Superman is.

So Zod can't lure Superman to Mars and make it the new Krypton?

I mean if Superman is the key to recreating Krypton

and he can fly

in space

and has a spaceship

why did it have to be Earth again?

Has the Spaceship been proven to fly? Its a derilect.

And Superman hasn't been shown to fly and breeath in space at that point.

And to answer Kenbo's question why search for another planet with Life if it could take AGES why not do it on the earth with life that they just found?!

 

[twistedmic]

Has the Spaceship been proven to fly? Its a derilect.

And Superman hasn't been shown to fly and breeath in space at that point.

And to answer Kenbo's question why search for another planet with Life if it could take AGES why not do it on the earth with life that they just found?!

Plus, why let an inferior species keep prime real estate when you can push them out and take it for yourself?

 

[Kyrian007]

I hope its true. I want to see a good wonder woman movie, I want to see a good justice league movie... But I want them to be built on a wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better foundation than the pathetically terrible MoS and BvS. I've wanted a reboot since 30 minutes after the first showing of MoS when I realized that it was going to be so bad I actually had trouble rationalizing why it might have been better than Superman 3 or 4. Or 64. It was that bad.

And when BvS was somehow worse (and that took real talent) I just gave up on this iteration. I've suggested that DC has a built-in reboot with Crisis and can use that as a soft reboot so they can keep the elements of the Snyderverse that work... but I can't for the life of me think of a single thing that wouldn't be better with a reboot.

 

[King Billi]

I'd say the DC cinematic universe has already simultaneously succeeded and failed as much as its going to.

For people who hate it the DCEU is already dead, after three films that so many people already consider "failures" it doesn't matter what comes after, Wonder Woman and Justice League could be the most phenomenally brilliant films ever and it wouldn't make up for the supposed missteps of before for in the eyes of the internet perfection is all that will be tolerated, with the slightest blemish tarnishing the whole endevour.

Likewise people who have thus far enjoyed the DCEU have at least three more films to look forward too (I'm willing to bet even if they scrap all their other planned films they'll still go ahead with Ben Afflecks solo Batman film). If the whole thing collapses with Justice League you're still left with six films which is most than most fans can expect and all things considered pretty impressive for such a contentious series to begin with.

 

[Kyrian007]

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

It was all about plot convenience. Snyder needed a punching bag for supes to facepunch through buildings. So rather than rationally contacting Kal-El (one of a few remaining members of a ENDANGERED SPECIES,) and convincing Kal to give him the codex by saying that new Krypton and Earth could benefit from a cooperative relationship as neighbors once they had terraformed Mars (which they could easily do if they had the ability to turn a PRISON into an FTL SHIP and then an WORLD ENGINE.) But nope, that wouldn't have led to any facepunching. So, YAAARRRR genocide away!

Basically he's as evil as the plot needed him to be for very stupid reasons.

 

[Hawki]

Looks at thread...

Okay, enough with Mars. Seriously. It's not even a plothole. It's trying to generate a plothole based on made-up science. Unless you have a real-world equivalent of terraforming an entire planet, it's about as much as plothole as saying "Superman can fly! That's not scientifically possible!" And of what we do know about hypothetical terraforming, it's far easier to nudge a somewhat hospitable planet into habitability than build one from scratch. Because with Mars, you have to, among other things:

-Fix the problem of a CO2-rich atmosphere.

-Deal with the lack of food, water, etc.

-Deal with the lack of a magnetic field

-Deal with the effects of low gravity, and how that would affect the human body which has evolved in a 1g environment (maybe kryptonians are more adept at this, I dunno)

-Deal with near constant sub-zero temperatures.

And so on. So if aliens come to the solar system and want to conquer Earth rather than the little dirthole that's Mars, that's hardly a plothole.

I'd also argue that Zod is easily one of the best villains comic book movies have in recent times, but considering that's an abysmally low bar, that's not saying much, and as much as I like MoS, it's not so much that I have the time or patience to debate it four years after the damn film released, when so many better films have been released in that timeframe. But, well, I guess that for me, the MCU is the overall better universe, but the DCEU is the more enjoyable one. I can't see the MCU doing anything to make me more receptive to it unless Marvel chooses to overhaul their formula. If the DCEU fixes its problems, then I'd be more behind it.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

It was all about plot convenience. Snyder needed a punching bag for supes to facepunch through buildings. So rather than rationally contacting Kal-El (one of a few remaining members of a ENDANGERED SPECIES,) and convincing Kal to give him the codex by saying that new Krypton and Earth could benefit from a cooperative relationship as neighbors once they had terraformed Mars (which they could easily do if they had the ability to turn a PRISON into an FTL SHIP and then an WORLD ENGINE.) But nope, that wouldn't have led to any facepunching. So, YAAARRRR genocide away!

Basically he's as evil as the plot needed him to be for very stupid reasons.

And still he managed to act rings around every other bastard in the movie and come across as sympathetic and flawed at the same time as being an evil douche. Between him and Antje Traue acting opposite Russell Crowe we might have had a more compelling film about the fall of Krypton.

 

[Kyrian007]

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

It was all about plot convenience. Snyder needed a punching bag for supes to facepunch through buildings. So rather than rationally contacting Kal-El (one of a few remaining members of a ENDANGERED SPECIES,) and convincing Kal to give him the codex by saying that new Krypton and Earth could benefit from a cooperative relationship as neighbors once they had terraformed Mars (which they could easily do if they had the ability to turn a PRISON into an FTL SHIP and then an WORLD ENGINE.) But nope, that wouldn't have led to any facepunching. So, YAAARRRR genocide away!

Basically he's as evil as the plot needed him to be for very stupid reasons.

And still he managed to act rings around every other bastard in the movie and come across as sympathetic and flawed at the same time as being an evil douche. Between him and Antje Traue acting opposite Russell Crowe we might have had a more compelling film about the fall of Krypton.

I can agree with quite a bit of that actually. To be fair, my problems with MoS didn't really start until after Krypton went boom. I was still totally on board at that point. I liked the new look (metallic instead of crystalline) the everpresent shaky-cam made sense because "the planet's kerploding," and those dragon-things...

Well. Ok, we didn't need flying lizards for flying lizard's sake because they looked cool on (what was the planet's name in Avatar... Pandora, really? Ok) Pandora. And those were mid air shots which shouldn't have the ground planet kerploding shake, but they were action sequences so its OK I suppose. Yeah no real large problems until the whole thing got to earth. And someone forgot to hit the "halt the shaky-cam" button. And then everything else that went horribly wrong.

But a whole film about the fall of Krypton, if it were like a full length version of that first 10 minutes of MoS... yeah, I could get behind that.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Whatever. I'm near completely burnt out on superhero films. Suicide Squad was the worst film I'd seen in years. Marvel's movies are inconsequential production line fluff. I just can't find the interest anymore.

You know what we need? A The Boys HBO series. Wouldn't that feel cathartic right now? And apparently one's supposed to be in the works.

Shit, I just realized... when the Superman we've had for two movies now feels way closer to the Homelander, who's supposed to be an antithetical subversion of Superman, than he should you know we've taken some wrong turns.

 

[Cicada 5]

Whatever. I'm near completely burnt out on superhero films. Suicide Squad was the worst film I'd seen in years. Marvel's movies are inconsequential production line fluff. I just can't find the interest anymore.

You know what we need? A The Boys HBO series. Wouldn't that feel cathartic right now? And apparently one's supposed to be in the works.

Shit, I just realized... when the Superman we've had for two movies now feels way closer to the Homelander, who's supposed to be an antithetical subversion of Superman, than he should you know we've taken some wrong turns.

I must have missed the scenes of Superman sexually abusing or raping people in BvS or MoS.

Reeves and Routh's versions have more in common with the Homelander than Snyder's version does.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Whatever. I'm near completely burnt out on superhero films. Suicide Squad was the worst film I'd seen in years. Marvel's movies are inconsequential production line fluff. I just can't find the interest anymore.

You know what we need? A The Boys HBO series. Wouldn't that feel cathartic right now? And apparently one's supposed to be in the works.

Shit, I just realized... when the Superman we've had for two movies now feels way closer to the Homelander, who's supposed to be an antithetical subversion of Superman, than he should you know we've taken some wrong turns.

I'm waiting for that Watchmen TV series on HBO that's reportedly in the works.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The thought of a reboot just makes me tired. Hey, let's watch the Waynes get shot! Again!

Thank you, That is the whole reason I am defending these movies to avoid another reboot.

I don't want to see another Superman Origin movie of him as a baby leaving Krypton.

I don't want to see another Batman movie with another actor casted as the Joker and Batman.

For fuck's sake no more reboots!!!!!

I haven't seen any of the new Superman movies. But I don't want any more live action superhero movies to be made. I know a few people are probably sick of me saying all superheroes are lame, but this has more to do with the problem of live action. When it's live action and tries to take itself all seriously, you just notice more how silly the concept is. Which is why villains like Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze can't be in Nolan's film series or the Ben Affleck version. A cartoon doesn't need to be embarrassed.

On a related note, I just initiated Knightfall Protocol, the 100% ending of Arkham Knight. Now to watch some more Animated Series. This is the kind of Batman I care about.

We all know Animation is superior to Live Action.


I wish the entire Lord of the Rings was animated.

 

[SirSullymore]

IMO they need to dump Goyer...oh wait, it was just announced he's writing Green Lantern. God why do they keep hiring this guy? What dirt does he have on the WB execs?

 

[King Billi]

Whatever. I'm near completely burnt out on superhero films. Suicide Squad was the worst film I'd seen in years. Marvel's movies are inconsequential production line fluff. I just can't find the interest anymore.

You know what we need? A The Boys HBO series. Wouldn't that feel cathartic right now? And apparently one's supposed to be in the works.

Shit, I just realized... when the Superman we've had for two movies now feels way closer to the Homelander, who's supposed to be an antithetical subversion of Superman, than he should you know we've taken some wrong turns.

I must have missed the scenes of Superman sexually abusing or raping people in BvS or MoS.

Reeves and Routh's versions have more in common with the Homelander than Snyder's version does.

I was just about to say... I had to look this character up and wow. Even as far as the typical exaggerated criticism of Superman in Man of Steel goes this is quite a stretch.

 

[Parasondox]

Lets be clear here, among Nerd and Geek culture, DCEU will never win. But what WB/DC have going for it is TV, Comics and video games. Movies, i dunno, movie executives dont seem to understand DC property.

 

[Mechamorph]

For my money DC in general has a lighter tone than Marvel but since the MCU made its money on (relatively) light hearted action adventure, DCEU seems to think that they have to radically shift to the other direction in order to both differentiate itself from the competition and succeed on their own merits. Batman might work with the growly, gritty scenes but most of the DC cast are explicitly brightly clad four-colour heroes.

If they wanted to go for the "mature" audience, there is always Vertigo. Why not use those stories instead? Sandman, Swamp Thing or Fables could all work as movies under the right circumstances. If it has to be superheroes, why not Astro City?

 

[SirSullymore]

IMO they need to dump Goyer...oh wait, it was just announced he's writing Green Lantern. God why do they keep hiring this guy? What dirt does he have on the WB execs?

I can't wait till we see hal Jordan moping around for 2 hours.

I mean goyer is a poor writer AND openly hostile and demeaning to fans

I just don't get it

I guess if you were involved in The Dark Knight you pretty much have carte blanche to do what ever you want forever.