Wonder Woman and Justice League films are said to be disasters. Is this the end of the DCEU?

[bastardofmelbourne]

The prospect of a bad Wonder Woman movie...displeases me.

You'd think that after BvS and Suicide Squad, the studio would have figured out their problems with editing.

>Zod
>great villain
Pick one.

Zod was a fucking great villain, partly due to the reinterpretation of his character and partly due to Michael Shannon's performance. He just got hamstrung by a poor screenplay that never bothered to explain basic plot holes, like "why does he have to kill Superman?" and "why can't he just go to Mars?"

Then again, I also liked Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor because it was weird and different and kind of compelling all at the same time. I never bought the "he's too crazy!" criticisms; there's [https://youtu.be/GnP8nfRB4g4?t=116] a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCu2C3234c] lot [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IZfMWoQtg] of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhS1pvVNlJ4] precedent [http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120902124709/dcmovies/images/9/93/Lex_Luthor8.jpg] for [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oY-CQxqpKUs/UklE4JartnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/xMAKd7VHW5w/s1600/Screenshot_2013-09-30-00-49-04.png] that. [http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/b4/Lex_Luthor_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060106181022] This is a guy who got elected President just so that he could get all fucked-up on Kryptonite steroids, put on a bright green-and-purple mech suit, and punch Superman in the face. "He's too crazy!" is not a credible complaint.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

The thought of a reboot just makes me tired. Hey, let's watch the Waynes get shot! Again!

Thank you, That is the whole reason I am defending these movies to avoid another reboot.

I don't want to see another Superman Origin movie of him as a baby leaving Krypton.

I don't want to see another Batman movie with another actor casted as the Joker and Batman.

For fuck's sake no more reboots!!!!!

Then they should just not make a Superman or Batman film. At least, not before the first Justice League movie. Origin stories for WW, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern and maybe Martian Manhunter would be ideal, since I'm pretty sure most people only know Flash's origin, thanks to the show. Then a Trinity movie leading into a Justice League movie.

I'm going to take the chance with the Wonder Woman movie, because I really want it, and the Aquaman movie, to be good. But, after BvS, I sort of don't want to continue with the DCEU. "Oh no, Superman is dead! Or is he?" And all because Zackypoo wanted Batman to be the one to put the team together. The Super-douche they created didn't exactly come off as a team player anyway, so they could have still done it the way they wanted without wasting Superman's death on the second movie!

 

[Kenbo Slice]

Snip

The issue is, he didn't act like Lex Luthor. He acted more like the Riddler or the Joker. Luthor is a bit more cold and calculating and doesn't shove jolly ranchers in peoples mouths.

Snip

They won't do Martian Manhunter because David S. Goyer said he's uncool.

 

[ckriley]

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

It was all about plot convenience. Snyder needed a punching bag for supes to facepunch through buildings. So rather than rationally contacting Kal-El (one of a few remaining members of a ENDANGERED SPECIES,) and convincing Kal to give him the codex by saying that new Krypton and Earth could benefit from a cooperative relationship as neighbors once they had terraformed Mars (which they could easily do if they had the ability to turn a PRISON into an FTL SHIP and then an WORLD ENGINE.) But nope, that wouldn't have led to any facepunching. So, YAAARRRR genocide away!

Basically he's as evil as the plot needed him to be for very stupid reasons.

Which is why the Richard Donner version was way better.

At least in Superman II, Zod wanted to kill Superman as revenge on Jor-El. "We will crush the son of our jailer!"

As corny as it sounds, kneel before Zod is much better than "I WILL FIND HIM!"

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

So...why couldn't he make a new one on Mars?

It was all about plot convenience. Snyder needed a punching bag for supes to facepunch through buildings. So rather than rationally contacting Kal-El (one of a few remaining members of a ENDANGERED SPECIES,) and convincing Kal to give him the codex by saying that new Krypton and Earth could benefit from a cooperative relationship as neighbors once they had terraformed Mars (which they could easily do if they had the ability to turn a PRISON into an FTL SHIP and then an WORLD ENGINE.) But nope, that wouldn't have led to any facepunching. So, YAAARRRR genocide away!

Basically he's as evil as the plot needed him to be for very stupid reasons.

Which is why the Richard Donner version was way better.

At least in Superman II, Zod wanted to kill Superman as revenge on Jor-El. "We will crush the son of our jailer!"

As corny as it sounds, kneel before Zod is much better than "I WILL FIND HIM!"

Ugh all these criticisms against Zod annoys me.

HE NEEDS A PLANET WITH LIFE, MARS IS LIFELESS.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

When I saw the WW trailer, I already knew it would suck. That scene with Captain Kirk, when he says, "I can't let you do this." to which she replies, "What I do is not up to you." ruined it. She cannot be a hero(ine) in her own right, the only way the filmmaker can give her credibility is to have her justified against a man. She cannot stand on her own feet, her value is measured by telling the man that she's a SFC!

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

she's a SFC!

Special Snowflake?

 

[ckriley]

The prospect of a bad Wonder Woman movie...displeases me.

You'd think that after BvS and Suicide Squad, the studio would have figured out their problems with editing.

>Zod
>great villain
Pick one.

Zod was a fucking great villain, partly due to the reinterpretation of his character and partly due to Michael Shannon's performance. He just got hamstrung by a poor screenplay that never bothered to explain basic plot holes, like "why does he have to kill Superman?" and "why can't he just go to Mars?"

Then again, I also liked Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor because it was weird and different and kind of compelling all at the same time. I never bought the "he's too crazy!" criticisms; there's [https://youtu.be/GnP8nfRB4g4?t=116] a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCu2C3234c] lot [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IZfMWoQtg] of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhS1pvVNlJ4] precedent [http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120902124709/dcmovies/images/9/93/Lex_Luthor8.jpg] for [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oY-CQxqpKUs/UklE4JartnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/xMAKd7VHW5w/s1600/Screenshot_2013-09-30-00-49-04.png] that. [http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/b4/Lex_Luthor_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060106181022] This is a guy who got elected President just so that he could get all fucked-up on Kryptonite steroids, put on a bright green-and-purple mech suit, and punch Superman in the face. "He's too crazy!" is not a credible complaint.

Lex being crazy is not the problem. The problem is, Zack turned him into Joker Lite. Or at the very least, the Facebook guy, which is probably why he cast Jesse to begin with. And that's not who Luthor is.

Lex Luthor matches Superman's strength with his intellect. And he does so while being charming, smooth, suave and charismatic. You kind of like the guy even though you know he's up to no good. Kevin Spacey was the closest anyone has gotten to nailing that character on the big screen. Gene Hackman was great, but whenever I watched the Donner Superman films, I never really saw Luthor, I saw Gene Hackman playing Luthor.

Bryan Cranston was rumored to be up for the role, but Zack wanted to go in a different direction. Can you imagine Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor.

Would have been fucking awesome.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The prospect of a bad Wonder Woman movie...displeases me.

You'd think that after BvS and Suicide Squad, the studio would have figured out their problems with editing.

>Zod
>great villain
Pick one.

Zod was a fucking great villain, partly due to the reinterpretation of his character and partly due to Michael Shannon's performance. He just got hamstrung by a poor screenplay that never bothered to explain basic plot holes, like "why does he have to kill Superman?" and "why can't he just go to Mars?"

Then again, I also liked Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor because it was weird and different and kind of compelling all at the same time. I never bought the "he's too crazy!" criticisms; there's [https://youtu.be/GnP8nfRB4g4?t=116] a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCu2C3234c] lot [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IZfMWoQtg] of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhS1pvVNlJ4] precedent [http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120902124709/dcmovies/images/9/93/Lex_Luthor8.jpg] for [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oY-CQxqpKUs/UklE4JartnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/xMAKd7VHW5w/s1600/Screenshot_2013-09-30-00-49-04.png] that. [http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/b4/Lex_Luthor_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060106181022] This is a guy who got elected President just so that he could get all fucked-up on Kryptonite steroids, put on a bright green-and-purple mech suit, and punch Superman in the face. "He's too crazy!" is not a credible complaint.

Lex being crazy is not the problem. The problem is, Zack turned him into Joker Lite. Or at the very least, the Facebook guy, which is probably why he cast Jesse to begin with. And that's not who Luthor is.

Lex Luthor matches Superman's strength with his intellect. And he does so while being charming, smooth, suave and charismatic. You kind of like the guy even though you know he's up to no good. Kevin Spacey was the closest anyone has gotten to nailing that character on the big screen. Gene Hackman was great, but whenever I watched the Donner Superman films, I never really saw Luthor, I saw Gene Hackman playing Luthor.

Bryan Cranston was rumored to be up for the role, but Zack wanted to go in a different direction. Can you imagine Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor.

Would have been fucking awesome.

I am just getting tired of Lex Luthor in general. Always being typecasted as Superman's villain.

I want a villain that matches Supermanm's power level not intellectual level.

Superman needs a Super villain not a mortal one.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

The prospect of a bad Wonder Woman movie...displeases me.

You'd think that after BvS and Suicide Squad, the studio would have figured out their problems with editing.

>Zod
>great villain
Pick one.

Zod was a fucking great villain, partly due to the reinterpretation of his character and partly due to Michael Shannon's performance. He just got hamstrung by a poor screenplay that never bothered to explain basic plot holes, like "why does he have to kill Superman?" and "why can't he just go to Mars?"

Then again, I also liked Jesse Eisenberg's Luthor because it was weird and different and kind of compelling all at the same time. I never bought the "he's too crazy!" criticisms; there's [https://youtu.be/GnP8nfRB4g4?t=116] a [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaCu2C3234c] lot [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IZfMWoQtg] of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhS1pvVNlJ4] precedent [http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120902124709/dcmovies/images/9/93/Lex_Luthor8.jpg] for [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oY-CQxqpKUs/UklE4JartnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/xMAKd7VHW5w/s1600/Screenshot_2013-09-30-00-49-04.png] that. [http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/b/b4/Lex_Luthor_004.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060106181022] This is a guy who got elected President just so that he could get all fucked-up on Kryptonite steroids, put on a bright green-and-purple mech suit, and punch Superman in the face. "He's too crazy!" is not a credible complaint.

Lex being crazy is not the problem. The problem is, Zack turned him into Joker Lite. Or at the very least, the Facebook guy, which is probably why he cast Jesse to begin with. And that's not who Luthor is.

Lex Luthor matches Superman's strength with his intellect. And he does so while being charming, smooth, suave and charismatic. You kind of like the guy even though you know he's up to no good. Kevin Spacey was the closest anyone has gotten to nailing that character on the big screen. Gene Hackman was great, but whenever I watched the Donner Superman films, I never really saw Luthor, I saw Gene Hackman playing Luthor.

Bryan Cranston was rumored to be up for the role, but Zack wanted to go in a different direction. Can you imagine Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor.

Would have been fucking awesome.

I am just getting tired of Lex Luthor in general. Always being typecasted as Superman's villain.

I want a villain that matches Supermanm's power level not intellectual level.

Superman needs a Super villain not a mortal one.

Nah. Whenever supes gets a villain as powerful as he is it just turns into a punching contest. The best superman villains are ones that take advantage of his moral weaknesses because that's the one place he isn't invulnerable. Anything that requires him to use his powers in a creative fashion

Well for a Series, like the animated series yes, but as a blockbuster movies, you need specticle.

Its why people were utterly bored and hated Superman Returns. I was one of those people that hated that movie because it was BORING and no action heck it wasn't even as good as the Animated Series or Superman in the Justice League cartoon.

So in sense Man of Steel was made for me, the people that thought Superman Returns was shit.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

The issue is, he didn't act like Lex Luthor. He acted more like the Riddler or the Joker. Luthor is a bit more cold and calculating and doesn't shove jolly ranchers in peoples mouths.

Again: got elected President, took Kryptonite steroids, beat up Superman in front of the White House.

I don't know what Luthor people are familiar with, but I'm familiar with the one who pencils on fake eyebrows [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oY-CQxqpKUs/UklE4JartnI/AAAAAAAAAZE/xMAKd7VHW5w/s1600/Screenshot_2013-09-30-00-49-04.png] and who built a robot clone of Lois Lane so that he could make small talk with it over dinner. He's always been crazy and creepy.

And why do people say he's too much like Riddler or the Joker as if the Riddler and the Joker are the same? They're two very different villains with very different motivations. The only way you'd mistake the Riddler for the Joker is if you were only familiar with Jim Carrey's version.

Lex being crazy is not the problem. The problem is, Zack turned him into Joker Lite. Or at the very least, the Facebook guy, which is probably why he cast Jesse to begin with. And that's not who Luthor is.

Why can't it be, though? In the 80s, they reinvented Luthor as a ruthless corporate tycoon as a reflection of what was then the archetypal "rich" person. This is the 2010s; the nouveau rich of today are less Donald Trump and more Mark Zuckerberg. They don't steal real estate or strip companies for profit; they design phones and social media.

I thought it was a cool idea. Eisenberg might've overplayed the neurotic half, but it worked to make him weirdly off-putting while also giving the impression of a very crazy man hiding behind the facade of a disarmingly goofy eccentric. And considering that his entire plan hinged on Batman not seeing him as a threat, it makes sense that he'd want to appear non-threatening or even foolish.

It even comes out in his physique; Eisenberg is a short and slight person, standing next to two six-foot-something muscle beasts. Because Lex Luthor doesn't need muscles to screw someone over.

Bryan Cranston was rumored to be up for the role, but Zack wanted to go in a different direction. Can you imagine Bryan Cranston as Lex Luthor.

It would've been great, yeah. I agree with you on that. Supposedly, the story behind Eisenberg's casting was that Snyder initially wanted him for Jimmy Olsen, reasoning that they could shock the audience by casting a "big name" actor in a sidekick role and then killing them off in the first ten minutes (yes, the guy who got shot at the start of the film was Jimmy Olsen). But as soon as they were talking to Eisenberg, someone went "How about him as Lex Luthor?" and the idea was apparently so intriguing that they ended up doing it.

I honestly can't fault them; Cranston would have been a solid casting choice for an older, grumpier Luthor, but they wanted to do something different and new. It just didn't go over well in the final cut and the audience punished them for it.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Well for a Series, like the animated series yes, but as a blockbuster movies, you need specticle.

Its why people were utterly bored and hated Superman Returns. I was one of those people that hated that movie because it was BORING and no action heck it wasn't even as good as the Animated Series or Superman in the Justice League cartoon.

So in sense Man of Steel was made for me, the people that thought Superman Returns was shit.

I enjoyed both films, but in very different ways. Superman Returns was a nostalgic character drama. Man of Steel was a visually brilliant punch-fest with just enough characterisation to justify the imminent punching.

I always found it painfully ironic that audiences and reviewers ran Returns over the coals for being boring when it came out, and then when they made a film that was its complete opposite in terms of tone, those same audiences and reviewers ran it over the coals for being mindless action.

There's just no way to win there.

 

[MrBoBo]

I'm hoping Batfleck gets to direct his movie, he was pretty good as Batman.

Don't care about Wonder woman, from the original trailers it looked poor. Justice League looks more promising.

 

[maninahat]

Oh for feck's sake. This is going to be our one shot of getting a big budget Wonder Woman movie, and they are trying to fuck it up! How have screenwriters and directors gotten so bad at this? Marvel makes mostly boring films, but at least they are coherent and functional on a basic level. I'd settle for a Marvel's Wonder Woman if only to prove that you can put money into a female led superhero movie and do it right for once. Guess I'll have to hold out for a Captain Marvel instead.

 

[Cicada 5]

Oh for feck's sake. This is going to be our one shot of getting a big budget Wonder Woman movie, and they are trying to fuck it up! How have screenwriters and directors gotten so bad at this? Marvel makes mostly boring films, but at least they are coherent and functional on a basic level. I'd settle for a Marvel's Wonder Woman if only to prove that you can put money into a female led superhero movie and do it right for once. Guess I'll have to hold out for a Captain Marvel instead.

There's no proof to this rumour at all

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Oh for feck's sake. This is going to be our one shot of getting a big budget Wonder Woman movie, and they are trying to fuck it up! How have screenwriters and directors gotten so bad at this? Marvel makes mostly boring films, but at least they are coherent and functional on a basic level. I'd settle for a Marvel's Wonder Woman if only to prove that you can put money into a female led superhero movie and do it right for once. Guess I'll have to hold out for a Captain Marvel instead.

There's no proof to this rumour at all

And very vague with it, I mean all they said is:

"The movie is a mess"

Define HOW is it a mess, Is there something wrong with the Editing? Are there too many scenes that don't really connect into a coherent plot?

Stop being vague and give us a straight answer!!!

 

[Hawki]

Are there too many scenes that don't really connect into a coherent plot?

Something like that, according to rumour.

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

Are there too many scenes that don't really connect into a coherent plot?

Something like that, according to rumour.

Well ComicBookCast2 failed to mention that he just blabbering when he was covering this rumor.

But using common sense this movie has to introduce Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg, and deal with the whole Justice League main plot and Return of Superman.

Basically I think it was a mistake that they abandon the 2 part plan for Justice League.

They should have made this Justice League Part 1.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Basically I think it was a mistake that they abandon the 2 part plan for Justice League.

As much as I hate multi-part movies like the Hobbit and Harry Potter, Batman v Superman would have benefited from it.

The first response I had from a friend who saw it separately when I asked him what he thought about Batman v Superman was: "Which of the two films in there are you referring to?" And it is basically two films; one about Luthor manipulating Batman into fighting Superman, and another about Luthor unleashing Doomsday on the world and forcing the creation of the core Justice League trinity.