Would Americans play a game in which the United States is the bad guy?

[Dizchu]

If someone has something positive to say about us, it always takes me by complete surprise because it happens so rarely. I admit it gets under my skin sometimes...no one likes to be told they are essentially worthless purely because of where they live over and over.

Ehh, I think you're picking and choosing what counts as "positive". The USA has a massive tourism industry and people from all over the world idealise the "American" way of life, at least in small chunks. The excesses of American culture are considered guilty pleasures by a lot of people, there's a certain excitement that comes with going into a massive supermarket with big (American) brands everywhere, eating supersized portions of food, as well as experiencing distinctly American things like Hollywood blockbusters.

From what I can tell all of this is taken for granted, by both Americans and outsiders. Outsiders are quick to criticise the USA for its hypercapitalism and corporatism but they're still using Windows and ordering Domino's Pizza. But those inside the USA, with all these massive brands being American exports, often feel like they're the center of the universe. I actually had an argument with someone on this forum (who was less than friendly) who got extremely upset when I pointed out that the World Wide Web wasn't invented by an American (and neither was the television while we're at it). Many Americans have a sense of self-importance and arrogance that comes across as unusual to many others, especially the British who are popularly considered self-deprecating. When it comes to people who have been on the receiving end of the USA's military endeavours this cynicism can turn into outright bitterness.

Of course, #notallamericans.

 

[Hypertion]

something of like 90% of Americans with required funds/time/equipment. america is a major "consumer" of games reguardless of how good or bad they (or they are depicted in) a game is they will still play it...

thats all you really need to know..

as for "outrage" well you get outrage against pokemon for being satanic from the always vocal minority here so that would be quite literally nothing new. Honestly your typical american is really open to even extreme satire.... as evidenced by some of our most long running TV shows.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

The only time I've seen a narrative driven campaign in which the regular US military (i.e. not a rogue faction) was featured as "the enemy" was in Vietcong 2. It had a main campaign involving an American GI protagonist followed by slightly shorter campaign featuring a NVA protagonist. It was actually pretty satisfying to get a sense of both sides of the conflict within a single game. The US campaign sort of focused on themes and dialogue related to the Truman doctrine, along with a sort of "ours is not to reason why" motivation for the protagonist. On the other hand, the NVA campaign had "liberation from a foreign aggressor" and personal revenge as its main themes.

 

[Ragland]

Ah, the game of life.

 

[mduncan50]

Well the whole Fallout mythology is pretty much predicated on the results of an evil US. Plus the remnants of the US government are the series antagonists The Enclave.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

The division? Kind of? I mean... government operatives that can pretty much do whatever the hell they want and apparently only answer to the president, all the while shooting looters who are in most cases just standing around. Due process was apparently the first victim of that virus...

Another way to look at it is the division is one of those few games where the American people are then enemy not just the American government.* It's been mentioned before in this thread, but when America is the bad guy it is often a form of bad government. Now that I think about it, it's kind of uncommon to have an American bad guy who isn't part of the government, or playing a government role. (If anyone can think of one?)


*When looked at from the outside, the division paints a rather scary government picture, but inside of it's own story your secret government kill squad is on the side of good and all the enemies get built up as the worst kind of people.

 

[irish286]

I pointed out that the World Wide Web wasn't invented by an American (and neither was the television while we're at it).

Umm... they were? TCP protocols that allowed the world wide web to exist were developed by Americans. And the first successful television was developed by Philo Farnsworth.

 

[Syzygy23]

Having just seen an article on the front page for the game 'All Walls Must Fall', I read the description and thought, "Ugh, yet another 'Murkia & Friends vs Soviet Nazis' game."

Game after game after game, we are presented with the same pattern. America and sometimes Britain are the good guys. Russia, Nazi Germany, Future Zombie Nazi Germany or vague Arab nation are the evil bad guys.

Even games developed by non-US devs stick to this formula. Occasionally we might see China as the naughty country, but do we ever see the United States as a villain? Do we ever see Britain or non-German Europe as the enemy?

One could even see this as a subtle propgation of the 'Us vs Them' idea. Propaganda for the young, to instill the idea that we are the good guys and the rest of the world (especially people with dark skin) are evil.

Now, I don't want to get too much into racial politics in games (you guys can get into that if you want).
What I want to know is whether anyone from one of the 'good guy' countries buy a game if you knew that you were the villains?
I'm a Brit and I would love to play a game were we had to stop the evil American war machine from invading Canada. Or perhaps play as the French, combatting British/Danish aggression as they invade Paris in an attempt to steal the French supply of croissants.

But perhaps I'm in the minority here. Perhaps devs are too scared to portray the United States or it's BFFs as bad guys because the 'Western' gaming public couldn't stomach it. Would any of you Americans play a game in which you are the evil ones and need to be stopped?

Also, to any German or Russian gamers here. Do you get tired of your country always being portayed as evil in games?

Hrmmmm, closest I can think would be Helldivers, maybe? All th echaracters and the citizens/government of super earth use "Diplomacy" and "Liberty" and "Freedom" and "Democracy" to mean "Kill everything not us and take their shit".

 

[Li Mu]

I'm a Brit

Anytime a British person complains about American imperialism or talks about American elitism I reel in pain at the irony of it.

But yeah, as people have pointed out, America being the bad guy isn't exactly a new concept. Metal Gear's been doing it for a while, and how well do those games sell?
Though, as an American, I get annoyed at games like Uncharted that are the least culturally educated games in existence, where someone's entire personality comes down to their accent. It doesn't help the stereotype that all Americans know nothing about foreign culture, which depending on who you talk can be somewhat true.

I'm not sure where I was talking about US imperialism, but feel free to point out the exact phrase I used and then I can agree or disagree with your point.

However...
To use Star Wars as an analogy; The British Empire was The Galactic Empire. We were a bunch of dicks who blew up entire planets. Then we collapsed and were replaced by the The First Order (The United States) who are a bunch of dicks who blow up entire planets. Same tactics, same hypocrisies and even the same language! We had better uniforms, you have better Tie Fighters.

 

[Dizchu]

I pointed out that the World Wide Web wasn't invented by an American (and neither was the television while we're at it).

Umm... they were? TCP protocols that allowed the world wide web to exist were developed by Americans. And the first successful television was developed by Philo Farnsworth.

TCP protocols =/= the world wide web.

Also why are you so quick to attribute the success of the WWW to US government research yet also attribute the success of television to a later (US) innovator despite working on a foundation made by European inventors?

Anytime a British person complains about American imperialism or talks about American elitism I reel in pain at the irony of it.

If anything the history of the British empire gives us first-hand experience with the dangers of excessive military interventionism.

People in the USA used to burn witches, does that mean it's wrong for the USA nowadays to call out theocratic societies that still do this?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'd play that, but then I'm Canadian and I usually see the US as bad guys anyway (no offence).

 

[Dango]

snip

I've seen of a lot of Brits/British Media treat America as such an Imperialistic nation, your rhetoric reminded me of that. The irony of calling Americans bullies is lost upon most Western European nations. While I would not dispute the colossal fuck ups of America on the world stage, comparing them to the historical impact of Frace, Great Britain, Spain, etc. is ridiculous. America has fucked up, but its fuck ups pale in comparison to the Imperial machinations of past empires, and Britain is arguably one of the worst offenders.

 

[Li Mu]

snip

I've seen of a lot of Brits/British Media treat America as such an Imperialistic nation, your rhetoric reminded me of that. The irony of calling Americans bullies is lost upon most Western European nations. While I would not dispute the colossal fuck ups of America on the world stage, comparing them to the historical impact of Frace, Great Britain, Spain, etc. is ridiculous. America has fucked up, but its fuck ups pale in comparison to the Imperial machinations of past empires, and Britain is arguably one of the worst offenders.

That's cool and everything. But when did I say any of this? You were implying that I stated as such in my OP.

 

[Floppertje]

The division? Kind of? I mean... government operatives that can pretty much do whatever the hell they want and apparently only answer to the president, all the while shooting looters who are in most cases just standing around. Due process was apparently the first victim of that virus...

Another way to look at it is the division is one of those few games where the American people are then enemy not just the American government.* It's been mentioned before in this thread, but when America is the bad guy it is often a form of bad government. Now that I think about it, it's kind of uncommon to have an American bad guy who isn't part of the government, or playing a government role. (If anyone can think of one?)


*When looked at from the outside, the division paints a rather scary government picture, but inside of it's own story your secret government kill squad is on the side of good and all the enemies get built up as the worst kind of people.

Well... either the division are the bad guys, the looters are the bad guys or EVERYONE is the bad guy. So yeah, definitely Americans are the bad guys in that game. You are right though, though perhaps that is because games are usually about some kind of conflict, and since the government has a monopoly on violence... It's a harder sell that regular civilians would take up arms for something other than their own survival. which, incidentally, is what they did in the Division. It's not really that the division itself is painted as being evil, but it does paint a very disturbing picture of what the designers apparently think is OK where governemnt use of power is concerned...

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

The division? Kind of? I mean... government operatives that can pretty much do whatever the hell they want and apparently only answer to the president, all the while shooting looters who are in most cases just standing around. Due process was apparently the first victim of that virus...

Another way to look at it is the division is one of those few games where the American people are then enemy not just the American government.* It's been mentioned before in this thread, but when America is the bad guy it is often a form of bad government. Now that I think about it, it's kind of uncommon to have an American bad guy who isn't part of the government, or playing a government role. (If anyone can think of one?)


*When looked at from the outside, the division paints a rather scary government picture, but inside of it's own story your secret government kill squad is on the side of good and all the enemies get built up as the worst kind of people.

Well... either the division are the bad guys, the looters are the bad guys or EVERYONE is the bad guy. So yeah, definitely Americans are the bad guys in that game. You are right though, though perhaps that is because games are usually about some kind of conflict, and since the government has a monopoly on violence... It's a harder sell that regular civilians would take up arms for something other than their own survival. which, incidentally, is what they did in the Division. It's not really that the division itself is painted as being evil, but it does paint a very disturbing picture of what the designers apparently think is OK where governemnt use of power is concerned...

It's a very interesting topic. We could talk for days about it. One of the nutty elements about the division is that is wasn't made by Americans. (I kind of doubt Americans would make the game the way they did. If Americans made the game I bet you the roles would be reversed.) It kind of makes sense that the game comes in part from Europe because well the USA is kind of over our terrorism fear, and is just building inside of Europe.

I think a part of the reason it's often the American government that is the enemy is because Americans have a cultural need to topple bad governments. (We can't do it in real life so we do it in story.) Your still pandering to the USA when the USA is the bad guy.

 

[sumanoskae]

I haven't got a patriotic bone in my body; me and America have a strictly professional relationship, and a rocky one at that. I DO NOT approve of it's conduct either at home or on foreign soil. Hell, I think the concept of being loyal to any country beyond your connection to the people who happen to live there is a product of propaganda.

I live here, I pay my taxes, I obey the law, and in return America provides infrastructure, security, and leaves the fuck alone.

So no, I would have absolutely no problem with a game that portrayed the American government as the collection of tyrannical fuckwits - it's not far from the truth. It'd probably also piss a lot of my least favorite people off, so I would personally welcome it.

"Would any of you Americans play a game in which you are the evil ones and need to be stopped?"

A game about the American government being evil wouldn't be a game about me being evil; I'm not physically attached to the country I live in. The Holocaust wasn't the fault of the German citizens.

 

[Leg End]

Let me put it this way: loving your country is laughed at here, because everyone loves 'Murica instead and thinks our country is awful while America is awesome, and everyone eats at McDonald's, everyone watches American movies, if they're a teen they dress up like American rapper gangstas (really, do actual Americans even dress like that anymore), everyone knows more about American politics than our own politics, and everyone looks like they know more American words than Italian words.
And don't even let me tell you how it feels like to be a professional translator EN<IT here: we are NOT allowed to translate titles in our own language because "American sounds cooler".

It's why I always saw America as the enemy - I've literally seen it strip away my own country's culture over the years.

So, you're saying that the following has become a reality?

Then you get news about how Americans celebrate soldiers and war while us Italians hate war and soldiers, and it just makes things worse, you know.

A lot of us don't. And a lot of us celebrate our soldiers and hate war. We just often take pride in when we have to blow things up, we have people trained to hell and back to do it well. Celebration of the ability to thrive in chaos, if you will.

And then there's Trump, the cherry on the cake.

CAN'T STUMP THE TRUMP

 

[Thatguyky]

As an American and someone that has stayed in New England all his life for the most part, I can honestly say I'd gladly play a game that made "Murica" the bad guys. One reason is simply because it'd be a breath of fresh air, something different than every other game out there. A second reason is because it'd be interesting to see how other countries or the country that developed the game thinks of the U.S, and lastly, I'm not exactly patriotic. I definitely don't see America as the greatest country, and I don't think it ever really has been. Plus as of late things seem to be getting worse (that's a discussion for another thread though xD )

But yeah, in short I'd love to play a game like you described. I can think of plenty of times in history where the U.S wasn't really the "good" guys.

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

I'd play that, but then I'm Canadian and I usually see the US as bad guys anyway (no offence).

Oh, yeah, totally man. None taken. America loves Canada and we definitely aren't planning any sort of retaliation for our totally not hurt feelings.

Spoiler: We Americans aren't vindictive or anything...

[http://s438.photobucket.com/user/KnivesTJ/media/Nuked.gif.html]​

Snip

Spoiler: Well, we are pretty damn awesome

Honestly, it seems less like it's America's fault and more like it's your countries fault for so readily ditching it's cultural identity and replacing it with a terrible one like America's. You can't really blame America for it, unless we finally worked the kinks out of that mind control device.

And then there's Trump, the cherry on the cake.

...We're really sorry about him.

 

[Aesir23]

Honestly, I'd love to see a game with the US firmly in the 'bad guy' role or if the US didn't play a role at all, particularly if it was a military-based FPS game since almost all of the ones I've played always had the US firmly in the driver's seat.

One of the reasons WW2 FPS games became stale so quickly for me was the fact that the focus on the US meant I was playing almost the same battles again and again in each game. World at War is still my favourite WW2 game purely for the Russian campaign.

Since the US is one of the biggest markets for games if not the biggest market, I can certainly understand why America or American characters are put in the limelight so often but something different would be nice at least for a change of pace.

Disclaimer: I am only half American and I have lived in Canada my entire life.

Edit: I feel I should make it clear that I'm not saying this because I have any anti-American sentiments. It's purely in the sense that I'm bored of seeing similar hero and villain types again and again.