Xbox One "Will Do Very Little" Without Day-One Patch

[Rad Party God]

Day one patches, online subscriptions, multiple accounts for different publishers, mandatory game installations...

The future of console gaming is a bright one for sure!.

 

[Rad Party God]

Sorry double post. My internet has been acting quite strange lately >.>'

 

[Ipsen]

I am really not sure if the people who post here are trolling or just plain silly.

Do you HONESTLY think the PS4 will "do much of anything" without a connection? THESE ARE COMPUTERS, they need to be connected to the internet for software updates, unless you want them to mail you CD patches. The article clearly states:

"A lot of the apps come with the day one update because they wouldn't have even been done," he said. "You're gonna need to take this update. It's not gonna be really an optional thing."

Can any of you read? Consoles and hardware HAVE to have a set launch window. It costs millions and millions of dollars to market and ship these things. They can't NOT meet that target if, say, Skype for XBOX is not ready, or any other piece of watchable software. So they ship it, realizing only a moron would buy a digital entertainment system without a connection to any digital entertainment.

Here is a hint, if you connection is too slow to take random patches, don't buy a next gen system that uses an online connection to enhance and expand your experience. Not rocket science here kids... Stay with your 360, next gen is not about fancy graphics and or game titles. It is about delivering an entertainment experience and BOTH console makers rely heavily on an internet connection. If you think otherwise, well you are just being silly.

The patronizing isn't necessary, but I guess you're being as fair as you can defending Microsoft.

But maybe....JUST maybe...SOME morons think you can buy a console, and just play games on it.

See, the problem with your interpretation on 'next gen console' is that console was always an alternative way to experience video games. It was the easier way; plug in a cartridge or disc, and you can start playing games (also able to share or trade). No need to boot up a computer, or deal with the issues that can come with (such as non-tradeable games). Both have their limitations, especially today, but when consoles shift towards PC architecture, they tend to take on both the limitations of a console AND a PC. So a console is not only locked hardware extremely resistant if not impossible for in-generation upgrade, but also has several lengths of DRM which can prevent a given user from the basics of console operation: Insert disc, play game.

Who the fuck wants that?

It's absolutely fine if Microsoft, or even Sony wants to put a console like this out to market. It's only a shame that it makes the competition look so good.

 

[Yoshi4102]

>People ***** and complain about the DRM
>people ***** and complain about the patch that kills the DRM and completes the OS that MShad to redo as a result of getting rid of the DRM

Damned if they do, dammed if they don't.

Solid job guys.

Well hating Microsoft is the cool thing to do at the moment. It'll subside the same way that Sony hate subsided last gen.

I'm just waiting for when people realize that the PS4 isn't going to be as magical as their imagination thinks it'll be and that Sony is just as money hungry as MS.

Let me say now that I'm buying a PS4 so I don't get called a fanboy.

 

[theApoc]

The patronizing isn't necessary, but I guess you're being as fair as you can defending Microsoft.

But maybe....JUST maybe...SOME morons think you can buy a console, and just play games on it.

See, the problem with your interpretation on 'next gen console' is that console was always an alternative way to experience video games. It was the easier way; plug in a cartridge or disc, and you can start playing games (also able to share or trade). No need to boot up a computer, or deal with the issues that can come with (such as non-tradeable games). Both have their limitations, especially today, but when consoles shift towards PC architecture, they tend to take on both the limitations of a console AND a PC. So a console is not only locked hardware extremely resistant if not impossible for in-generation upgrade, but also has several lengths of DRM which can prevent a given user from the basics of console operation: Insert disc, play game.

Who the fuck wants that?

It's absolutely fine if Microsoft, or even Sony wants to put a console like this out to market. It's only a shame that it makes the competition look so good.

I think the "ZOMG! MS is evil" is unnecessary without proper context. Nothing about games was mentioned. If you bought a new IPad touch, for example, and on setup it needed to update its software so that, say, facebook worked properly. Is that Apple screwing over the consumer, who JUST wants to play music or Angry birds? Without a detailed list of what will and won't be available without the patch, all of the ranting by the people on this board is just speculation. Hence the patronizing, because they aren't even considering the possible reasons for said patch.

XBOX One and PS4 are not Nintendos, or even PS2's and XBOX's. They are not DS's or Vita's. It is a media center, that happens to play games, not a game machine that happens to play media. Both consoles have evolved towards this. They pack as much hardware and software in it to make gameplay the best experience it can be, but at the end of the day, playing games is one of a hundred things these boxes are designed to do.

And the only people who are whining about this sort of thing are the small minority of people that post on gaming boards and the bloggers who like pandering to them.

Most of the people who own XBOX 360 are on XBOX live. When more than 50% of your user base is online, it stands to reason you have an argument for pushing the next generation to be more online oriented. Which, from EVERYTHING they have presented, is exactly what they did. It plays games, and I am sure it will play the on disc version just fine with no add ons, and no non-publisher required conditions. But even if it didn't, the case for doing system updates via LIVE is easily made by the benefits of such a system and in the end? PS4 is not going to be any different.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Not rocket science here kids... Stay with your 360, next gen is not about fancy graphics and or game titles. It is about delivering an entertainment experience and BOTH console makers rely heavily on an internet connection. If you think otherwise, well you are just being silly.

Well, even if you're unconcerned with game sales, Microsoft definitely cannot afford to be.

They sunk a lot of money into development; at least 3 billion* in conjunction with AMD (and more than likely, M$ footed the bill since it was developed specifically for the Xbone). While the Xbone is estimated to barely break even on a per unit basis (read: absolutely tiny profit margins on hardware).

On top of that, the ancillary, non-game services you keep propping up aren't unique to the Xbone.
The market has access to much cheaper and utilitarian products like Smart TVs, Blu-Ray players, computers and Smartphones that can run Hulu, Skype, Netflix, Social Media Crap, and web browsers.
Most of said market is already going strong, meaning the Xbone is already playing from far behind on that front.

I could elaborate even further, but the short answer is that without game royalties, the Xbone would need to sell a positively INSANE number of units to just make up its development cost alone; and that's not including the cost of production, servicing and marketing.

More units than is feasible for a non-game entertainment system.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20130527231722_Microsoft_Xbox_One_APU_Cost_Over_3_Billion_to_Develop.html

 

[theApoc]

Most of the people who own XBOX 360 are on XBOX live. When more than 50% of your user base is online, it stands to reason you have an argument for pushing the next generation to be more online oriented.

CITATION NEEDED!!!

Wait, let me help with that.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/12/microsoft-only-60-percent-of-xbox-360-owners-use-it-to-play-games/

According to Microsoft in that article, only 12.5 million players have Gold, which is needed to play online. Considering 78 million 360s were sold, that would mean that only 1 in 6 actually play online. Only 25 million (1 in 3) have online membership at all. So that 50% is bull under the loosest terms.

Update your information:

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/xbox-360-sales-and-xbox-live-membership-numbers-give-microsoft-a-compelling-defense-for-the-always-online-next-xbox/

Your article is from 2010, which BTW is mentioned in the actual data...

 

[theApoc]

Well, even if you're unconcerned with game sales, Microsoft definitely cannot afford to be.

They sunk a lot of money into development; at least 3 billion* in conjunction with AMD (and more than likely, M$ footed the bill since it was developed specifically for the Xbone). While the Xbone is estimated to barely break even on a per unit basis (read: absolutely tiny profit margins on hardware).

On top of that, the ancillary, non-game services you keep propping up aren't unique to the Xbone.
The market has access to much cheaper and utilitarian products like Smart TVs, Blu-Ray players, computers and Smartphones that can run Hulu, Skype, Netflix, Social Media Crap, and web browsers.
Most of said market is already going strong, meaning the Xbone is already playing from far behind on that front.

I could elaborate even further, but the short answer is that without game royalties, the Xbone would need to sell a positively INSANE number of units to just make up its development cost alone; and that's not including the cost of production, servicing and marketing.

More units than is feasible for a non-game entertainment system.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20130527231722_Microsoft_Xbox_One_APU_Cost_Over_3_Billion_to_Develop.html

You should really read the whole article before posting:

"Technologies that are used inside APUs that power PlayStation 4 and Xbox One will be used for desktop, mobile and ultra-portable PC devices, microprocessors, graphics cards and other products by AMD."

Sorry, but you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[faefrost]

so glueing a dvd onto the box with the needed patch is impossible? have them as handouts like those old aol cd's? or in a bin?
here dont forget the patch dvd. . .

The problem is if they allowed the XBone to be updatable via Disk, it would have opened the door wide open to custom OS modifications and network hacking. That's how most of the previous consoles got hacked. I'll give them this one. Hopefully they have made arrangements with most retail places of purchase whereby the stores will assist consumers with the one time patch if they can't do it at home? I've been harsh on MS over the clusterf*** that is the XBox One, but honestly this one is kinda an expected non issue.

 

[mitchell271]

So what will the Xbone have on day 1?
1. mass
2. a case
3. ???

 

[Riff Moonraker]

Um, dont you have to do something similar with the PS4? I am failing to see the big point here, other than some trying to make it an opportunity to bash on the Xbox one.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You should really read the whole article before posting:

"Technologies that are used inside APUs that power PlayStation 4 and Xbox One will be used for desktop, mobile and ultra-portable PC devices, microprocessors, graphics cards and other products by AMD."

Sorry, but you really don't know what you are talking about.

So, my one mistake there means all other points of mine is invalid?
How delightfully shallow.

And fallacious.

EDIT: Well, I do admit that I needed Microsoft's Operating Costs to make my whole argument stick.
There's a lot of obfuscation going on about just how much the Xbox division is making; namely, how much of it is actually on account of XBL Gold subscriptions and how much is from Game Royalties.

Given that royalties are all "gravy" while XBL costs money to run, I seriously doubt the games are anywhere near as insignificant as my fallacious little friend above implies. (Nevermind that Xbox has been marketed as a VIDEO GAME RELATED BRAND for over a decade now.)

But as for the argument that the Xbone can stand as a glorified Digital TV Box, I will say this:

LOL, NO.

All it will take for the non-gamer market to reject the Xbone is realizing that there is a whole bevvy of other electronics that will do EVERYTHING the Xbone can do (apart from games) for cheaper.

Smart TVs are getting cheaper every month, as are Blu Ray players. So unless you're some retard that has a perverse desire to require their TV to have access to both Skype AND Bing at all times AND you don't have a PC with HDMI, there's literally no reason to buy an Xbone.

Lets talk realistically:
1) The Xbone is currently straddling the line of breaking even to maybe a tiny profit.
2) It's running on specialized fixed hardware.

This means that the Xbone will not see price cuts for a while, while the Smart TV market will continue to grow, and compete. Just how nobody is buying PS3s solely to watch Blu Ray, nobody is going to buy an Xbone to watch TV.

It NEEDS games. And Microsoft (or at least the Xbone division) needs to stop pissing their customers off, lest they relive their embarrassment from E3 again.

Oh, and stumbled on this GEM of a response...

Then you will be needlessly left behind. They have added functionality. Taken nothing away, and are doing more and more to grow the gaming community. Your elitist "it should be for games" attitude is not serving anyone.

"Your knife doesn't have all the functions as my swiss army knife!"
"Uh, yeah. I cut and peel fruit with it that's what it's-"
"YOU ARE HOLDING KNIFE PROGRESS BACK! KNIFE ELITIST!"

Also: "Needlessly left behind"?
It's just a fucking game console (oh wait, no, it's an over priced digital TV tuner), not the object of some cult.

These are entertainment systems, why not just join in on the fun and save your ire for something else. How about Bieber or Myley, they both suck, why not rail against them.

Yeah! Don't stop and think about your purchasing decisions. Not for the Xbone.

But looking through your history, your modus operandi is very, very obvious: all you do is defend Microsoft. So unless they're paying you, they don't need your defense. They're a BIG company.
They can live and die by their own decisions.

 

[theApoc]

So, my one mistake there means all other points of mine is invalid?
How delightfully shallow.

And fallacious.

Well, even if you're unconcerned with game sales, Microsoft definitely cannot afford to be.

False, MS is not concerned with game sales at all. They are in the console business. What games you buy are irrelevant. Let me expand on this. Do they want to sell games, get more publishers, move units? Of course. Is that the core of XBOX One's business model? No. Nothing about the system points to that being the case.

They sunk a lot of money into development; at least 3 billion* in conjunction with AMD (and more than likely, M$ footed the bill since it was developed specifically for the Xbone). While the Xbone is estimated to barely break even on a per unit basis (read: absolutely tiny profit margins on hardware).

False, MS and AMD developed the technology which as stated in my answer will be used in many other devices, so they did not actually spend the money JUST on XBOX One.

On top of that, the ancillary, non-game services you keep propping up aren't unique to the Xbone.
The market has access to much cheaper and utilitarian products like Smart TVs, Blu-Ray players, computers and Smartphones that can run Hulu, Skype, Netflix, Social Media Crap, and web browsers.
Most of said market is already going strong, meaning the Xbone is already playing from far behind on that front.

False, XBOX live usage has more than doubled since 2010, if anything their market and increase in customer base are good indicators of why the next gen console is very much a complete media center and not a game machine. Far behind? By what metric could you possibly think they are "far behind" in when it comes to this type of community service.

I could elaborate even further, but the short answer is that without game royalties, the Xbone would need to sell a positively INSANE number of units to just make up its development cost alone; and that's not including the cost of production, servicing and marketing.

More units than is feasible for a non-game entertainment system.

None of what you have said is even remotely based in fact. Both Sony and MS take losses up front on their systems, which is made back over time through subscriptions and or additional content licensing. I suppose you are going to say 360 was a failure as well? Understand that the gaming division is miniscule in terms of MS as a whole. It is a matter of brand exposure and continues to grow a user base. Again, I dismissed your comment because you did not present any factual information, which does in fact make your points invalid. Sorry...

 

[theApoc]

Um, dont you have to do something similar with the PS4? I am failing to see the big point here, other than some trying to make it an opportunity to bash on the Xbox one.

Pretty much... Almost all devices require some kind of launch setup/update.

 

[Ipsen]

The patronizing isn't necessary, but I guess you're being as fair as you can defending Microsoft.

But maybe....JUST maybe...SOME morons think you can buy a console, and just play games on it.

See, the problem with your interpretation on 'next gen console' is that console was always an alternative way to experience video games. It was the easier way; plug in a cartridge or disc, and you can start playing games (also able to share or trade). No need to boot up a computer, or deal with the issues that can come with (such as non-tradeable games). Both have their limitations, especially today, but when consoles shift towards PC architecture, they tend to take on both the limitations of a console AND a PC. So a console is not only locked hardware extremely resistant if not impossible for in-generation upgrade, but also has several lengths of DRM which can prevent a given user from the basics of console operation: Insert disc, play game.

Who the fuck wants that?

It's absolutely fine if Microsoft, or even Sony wants to put a console like this out to market. It's only a shame that it makes the competition look so good.

I think the "ZOMG! MS is evil" is unnecessary without proper context. Nothing about games was mentioned. If you bought a new IPad touch, for example, and on setup it needed to update its software so that, say, facebook worked properly. Is that Apple screwing over the consumer, who JUST wants to play music or Angry birds? Without a detailed list of what will and won't be available without the patch, all of the ranting by the people on this board is just speculation. Hence the patronizing, because they aren't even considering the possible reasons for said patch.

To pick apart your example, no one buys an Ipod/pad just for Angry Birds, or any singular use (these days, remember when it was just about the music?). Kids excluded, but they couldn't pay for squat, and parents know they can find other uses for the device when the kids can understand them. Consoles had a different appeal, in that you could play a large variety of games easily, and that was their primary utility.

Of course proper judgment is withheld until the console is out, but then, of course, people have had to spend money on the damn things in order to experience what IS in the patch (unless patch details are displayed beforehand). People are still wondering (perhaps assuming) if the system is going to have its primary function of playing games available without an internet connection.

So, if not me, $400-$500 says your patronizing isn't necessary.

XBOX One and PS4 are not Nintendos, or even PS2's and XBOX's. They are not DS's or Vita's. It is a media center, that happens to play games, not a game machine that happens to play media. Both consoles have evolved towards this. They pack as much hardware and software in it to make gameplay the best experience it can be, but at the end of the day, playing games is one of a hundred things these boxes are designed to do.

Might be a stretch, but this highlights the main problem in my first response. While the XBONE and the PS4 are not PS2's, or Nintendo's, or whatnot; their predecessors were (kind of). They still held that notion of 'pick up and play' gaming. That's history; history that people have adopted systems early for, spread positive word for, and might be a bit miffed if that history turns on its head.

Besides, you're REALLY going to making an argument that next gen work more like media centers that happen to play games? As if we couldn't see this coming with current gen??? It's not much of an evolution, at least, if you expect new features. This is more a shift in priorities, from games to media (like you said, 'happen to play games'). Not even mentioning that plenty of devices do this already, but perhaps gaming enthusiasts are not ready to see the homogenization of games into every other form of media out there (CoD slight exception; on the favor backslide currently). Gaming is relatively new, and part of the general appeal of this medium is novelty. Who wants to play the exact same game, repeatedly, for years on end?

Again, it's fine if the console corps want to pursue this route. They're about profits, and if it's somehow profitable to kick the brand loyalists under the rug in favor of a new consumer base every generation, then Microsoft and Sony can work some magic. I, for one, won't have it.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

so glueing a dvd onto the box with the needed patch is impossible? have them as handouts like those old aol cd's? or in a bin?
here dont forget the patch dvd. . .

Oh, look. A completely doable solution that would have cost next to nothing. Of course they didn't do that.

Are you kidding me? The Entire point of the day one patch is that they didn't have the os ready when they needed to start manufacturing and sending out the xboxes. If they had enough time after they finished the OS to manufacture dvd's of the patch and send them all out, they could have just put it on the xbox itself in the first place.

They've known about the patch for months. They can't ship some to game stores?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Microsoft are incapable of creating a functional operating system that is not an odd numbered windows release, seriously. it's just a thing now they even had to add a 1 to windows 8 to make it work.

Yeah, but still I would've thought that essentially releasing an expensive paperweight that you have to download a patch to before it'll do anything is a bit much even for Microsoft.

 

[Nazulu]

Edit.

Seems like in the rush to sling poo at the Xbone people are forgetting that without a day one patch most of the PS4s features are disabled too...

That depends if you need that patch to be able to play single player games too. Though the response shouldn't change because it's still ridiculous.

I think games might still work but thats about it, many features will not though. Headphones (apart from PS4 ones), BD/DVD player (seriously!), more than one account and none of the PS4-PS Vita functions will work until the 1.50 day one patch along with a bunch of other stuff. Much of that doesn't matter though as its stuff you need the internet for anyway like some of the streaming service apps and the share buttons features like screenshots and video.

Yeah, no kidding. I had no idea the DVD and PS Vita wouldn't function, that one slipped by me.

I would normally say I'm just happy it can play the damn games but that's not all we're paying for.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Snacuum]

Yeah we saw this coming but it still remains stupid. Microsoft should have done their best to avoid having any user take their Xbone home and not be able to insert disc and play. I want to buy a game console not a cable-box.

 

[Strazdas]

My reaction depends on the size of the download. If it's less than 1GB, then whatever. It's a shame, but hopefully most people will be able to get it done in less than an hour without much fuss. Day One patches are just a thing that we do now with launch hardware, I guess. I mean, the Wii U's was 1GB iirc. Sony's will be 300 MB. Microsoft says it's a 20 minute patch, whatever that means. Eh.

The person who got his Xbox early by mistake has said the patch is 500 mb in size.

so glueing a dvd onto the box with the needed patch is impossible? have them as handouts like those old aol cd's? or in a bin?
here dont forget the patch dvd. . .

thei said this was not possible because that would mean they would have to open up all existing already manufactured boxes and add it in, which they arent going to bother with because who cares about consumers right?

How can anyone with even the slightest bit of intelligence be surprised by this news? They were forced to drastically alter their strategy for the One very late in the development cycle. Of course they're going to have to patch it day 1, most of the launch consoles were likely built and loaded with the software that assumed their cloud-based DRM would be used.

Please use a little bit of common sense before jumping on the MS hate bandwagon for once...

the hate wagon exists because, as you stated: "most of the launch consoles were likely built and loaded with the software that assumed their cloud-based DRM would be used"

>People ***** and complain about the DRM
>people ***** and complain about the patch that kills the DRM and completes the OS that MShad to redo as a result of getting rid of the DRM

Damned if they do, dammed if they don't.

Solid job guys.

damned that they though they could get away with it.

You're fucking shitting me right?

Producing millions of discs to ship out the software would take at least a couple of weeks. On top of that, shipping those discs across the globe would take another couple of weeks, so we're already talking a month of extra work for producing discs and shipping them that they don't have to pay for if they provide it as a digital patch.

It's borderline doable, but it most certainly does not cost next to nothing.

Were talking a month, when they had 3 motnhs + to do it. Sure, its cheaper to not produce a disc, but if you mess up your theo ne paying for fixing it up.

Seems like in the rush to sling poo at the Xbone people are forgetting that without a day one patch most of the PS4s features are disabled too...

Without Day 0 patch PS4 can still do its primary function - play video games. Xbox cant.

Watch the patch be like 5 GB and people with shit internet will not be able to get it, causing the same problem always online would have caused. So many returns will happen...........

Our best source so far claims 500mb.

Do you HONESTLY think the PS4 will "do much of anything" without a connection? THESE ARE COMPUTERS, they need to be connected to the internet for software updates, unless you want them to mail you CD patches.

So i take it you forgot the days when OS patches came bundled with game CDs, right? Bought new game, installer automatically updated your system because it needs that new system to play the game. no fuss no mus.

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Your phone, your cable/satellite, the current gen PS3/360, none of those devices are intended to, or are capable of their full functionality without a network connection. None of them.

Im sorry, my phone has been doing quite well without a network connection. it has been doing well for the past 10 years thank you very much. I do not own a sattelite though, so i cant dispute that. Both my PC and consoles could also do very well and fully function without networ connection. The only device that cannot is apperently the new consoles.

it would have opened the door wide open to custom OS modifications

which is good.

network hacking

erm what? CD update hacks your network?

but honestly this one is kinda an expected non issue.

except for everyone that actually cares. people who could be on every 24 hours can download the patch. people who coudnt, still cant download the stuff.

So what will the Xbone have on day 1?
1. mass
2. a case
3. ???

you forgot DRM

Pretty much... Almost all devices require some kind of launch update.

except, you know, every device that isnt new console.