Xbox One "Will Do Very Little" Without Day-One Patch

[Ipsen]

The patronizing isn't necessary, but I guess you're being as fair as you can defending Microsoft.

But maybe....JUST maybe...SOME morons think you can buy a console, and just play games on it.

See, the problem with your interpretation on 'next gen console' is that console was always an alternative way to experience video games. It was the easier way; plug in a cartridge or disc, and you can start playing games (also able to share or trade). No need to boot up a computer, or deal with the issues that can come with (such as non-tradeable games). Both have their limitations, especially today, but when consoles shift towards PC architecture, they tend to take on both the limitations of a console AND a PC. So a console is not only locked hardware extremely resistant if not impossible for in-generation upgrade, but also has several lengths of DRM which can prevent a given user from the basics of console operation: Insert disc, play game.

Who the fuck wants that?

It's absolutely fine if Microsoft, or even Sony wants to put a console like this out to market. It's only a shame that it makes the competition look so good.

I think the "ZOMG! MS is evil" is unnecessary without proper context. Nothing about games was mentioned. If you bought a new IPad touch, for example, and on setup it needed to update its software so that, say, facebook worked properly. Is that Apple screwing over the consumer, who JUST wants to play music or Angry birds? Without a detailed list of what will and won't be available without the patch, all of the ranting by the people on this board is just speculation. Hence the patronizing, because they aren't even considering the possible reasons for said patch.

To pick apart your example, no one buys an Ipod/pad just for Angry Birds, or any singular use (these days, remember when it was just about the music?). Kids excluded, but they couldn't pay for squat, and parents know they can find other uses for the device when the kids can understand them. Consoles had a different appeal, in that you could play a large variety of games easily, and that was their primary utility.

Of course proper judgment is withheld until the console is out, but then, of course, people have had to spend money on the damn things in order to experience what IS in the patch (unless patch details are displayed beforehand). People are still wondering (perhaps assuming) if the system is going to have its primary function of playing games available without an internet connection.

So, if not me, $400-$500 says your patronizing isn't necessary.

XBOX One and PS4 are not Nintendos, or even PS2's and XBOX's. They are not DS's or Vita's. It is a media center, that happens to play games, not a game machine that happens to play media. Both consoles have evolved towards this. They pack as much hardware and software in it to make gameplay the best experience it can be, but at the end of the day, playing games is one of a hundred things these boxes are designed to do.

Might be a stretch, but this highlights the main problem in my first response. While the XBONE and the PS4 are not PS2's, or Nintendo's, or whatnot; their predecessors were (kind of). They still held that notion of 'pick up and play' gaming. That's history; history that people have adopted systems early for, spread positive word for, and might be a bit miffed if that history turns on its head.

Besides, you're REALLY going to making an argument that next gen work more like media centers that happen to play games? As if we couldn't see this coming with current gen??? It's not much of an evolution, at least, if you expect new features. This is more a shift in priorities, from games to media (like you said, 'happen to play games'). Not even mentioning that plenty of devices do this already, but perhaps gaming enthusiasts are not ready to see the homogenization of games into every other form of media out there (CoD slight exception; on the favor backslide currently). Gaming is relatively new, and part of the general appeal of this medium is novelty. Who wants to play the exact same game, repeatedly, for years on end?

Again, it's fine if the console corps want to pursue this route. They're about profits, and if it's somehow profitable to kick the brand loyalists under the rug in favor of a new consumer base every generation, then Microsoft and Sony can work some magic. I, for one, won't have it.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

so glueing a dvd onto the box with the needed patch is impossible? have them as handouts like those old aol cd's? or in a bin?
here dont forget the patch dvd. . .

Oh, look. A completely doable solution that would have cost next to nothing. Of course they didn't do that.

Are you kidding me? The Entire point of the day one patch is that they didn't have the os ready when they needed to start manufacturing and sending out the xboxes. If they had enough time after they finished the OS to manufacture dvd's of the patch and send them all out, they could have just put it on the xbox itself in the first place.

They've known about the patch for months. They can't ship some to game stores?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Microsoft are incapable of creating a functional operating system that is not an odd numbered windows release, seriously. it's just a thing now they even had to add a 1 to windows 8 to make it work.

Yeah, but still I would've thought that essentially releasing an expensive paperweight that you have to download a patch to before it'll do anything is a bit much even for Microsoft.

 

[Nazulu]

Edit.

Seems like in the rush to sling poo at the Xbone people are forgetting that without a day one patch most of the PS4s features are disabled too...

That depends if you need that patch to be able to play single player games too. Though the response shouldn't change because it's still ridiculous.

I think games might still work but thats about it, many features will not though. Headphones (apart from PS4 ones), BD/DVD player (seriously!), more than one account and none of the PS4-PS Vita functions will work until the 1.50 day one patch along with a bunch of other stuff. Much of that doesn't matter though as its stuff you need the internet for anyway like some of the streaming service apps and the share buttons features like screenshots and video.

Yeah, no kidding. I had no idea the DVD and PS Vita wouldn't function, that one slipped by me.

I would normally say I'm just happy it can play the damn games but that's not all we're paying for.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Snacuum]

Yeah we saw this coming but it still remains stupid. Microsoft should have done their best to avoid having any user take their Xbone home and not be able to insert disc and play. I want to buy a game console not a cable-box.

 

[Strazdas]

My reaction depends on the size of the download. If it's less than 1GB, then whatever. It's a shame, but hopefully most people will be able to get it done in less than an hour without much fuss. Day One patches are just a thing that we do now with launch hardware, I guess. I mean, the Wii U's was 1GB iirc. Sony's will be 300 MB. Microsoft says it's a 20 minute patch, whatever that means. Eh.

The person who got his Xbox early by mistake has said the patch is 500 mb in size.

so glueing a dvd onto the box with the needed patch is impossible? have them as handouts like those old aol cd's? or in a bin?
here dont forget the patch dvd. . .

thei said this was not possible because that would mean they would have to open up all existing already manufactured boxes and add it in, which they arent going to bother with because who cares about consumers right?

How can anyone with even the slightest bit of intelligence be surprised by this news? They were forced to drastically alter their strategy for the One very late in the development cycle. Of course they're going to have to patch it day 1, most of the launch consoles were likely built and loaded with the software that assumed their cloud-based DRM would be used.

Please use a little bit of common sense before jumping on the MS hate bandwagon for once...

the hate wagon exists because, as you stated: "most of the launch consoles were likely built and loaded with the software that assumed their cloud-based DRM would be used"

>People ***** and complain about the DRM
>people ***** and complain about the patch that kills the DRM and completes the OS that MShad to redo as a result of getting rid of the DRM

Damned if they do, dammed if they don't.

Solid job guys.

damned that they though they could get away with it.

You're fucking shitting me right?

Producing millions of discs to ship out the software would take at least a couple of weeks. On top of that, shipping those discs across the globe would take another couple of weeks, so we're already talking a month of extra work for producing discs and shipping them that they don't have to pay for if they provide it as a digital patch.

It's borderline doable, but it most certainly does not cost next to nothing.

Were talking a month, when they had 3 motnhs + to do it. Sure, its cheaper to not produce a disc, but if you mess up your theo ne paying for fixing it up.

Seems like in the rush to sling poo at the Xbone people are forgetting that without a day one patch most of the PS4s features are disabled too...

Without Day 0 patch PS4 can still do its primary function - play video games. Xbox cant.

Watch the patch be like 5 GB and people with shit internet will not be able to get it, causing the same problem always online would have caused. So many returns will happen...........

Our best source so far claims 500mb.

Do you HONESTLY think the PS4 will "do much of anything" without a connection? THESE ARE COMPUTERS, they need to be connected to the internet for software updates, unless you want them to mail you CD patches.

So i take it you forgot the days when OS patches came bundled with game CDs, right? Bought new game, installer automatically updated your system because it needs that new system to play the game. no fuss no mus.

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Your phone, your cable/satellite, the current gen PS3/360, none of those devices are intended to, or are capable of their full functionality without a network connection. None of them.

Im sorry, my phone has been doing quite well without a network connection. it has been doing well for the past 10 years thank you very much. I do not own a sattelite though, so i cant dispute that. Both my PC and consoles could also do very well and fully function without networ connection. The only device that cannot is apperently the new consoles.

it would have opened the door wide open to custom OS modifications

which is good.

network hacking

erm what? CD update hacks your network?

but honestly this one is kinda an expected non issue.

except for everyone that actually cares. people who could be on every 24 hours can download the patch. people who coudnt, still cant download the stuff.

So what will the Xbone have on day 1?
1. mass
2. a case
3. ???

you forgot DRM

Pretty much... Almost all devices require some kind of launch update.

except, you know, every device that isnt new console.

 

[Caiphus]

Snip

Ah, ok. I must have missed the information about the size of the patch. Thank you.

So it's less than the Wii U's, that's not bad. Although you are right, and I didn't even consider it, they really should provide a disc to install the patch for those who don't have access to the Internet.

You could argue (and I know that you personally didn't, Strazdas) that people without Internet access shouldn't be buying launch hardware. But you could also make the, much better, argument that you shouldn't be shipping a $500 piece of hardware that won't work unless you hook it up to a broadband Internet connection for half an hour.

And the same goes for Sony/Nintendo. I don't know if they are going to provide/provided discs, but they should/should have.

 

[Strazdas]

Snip

Ah, ok. I must have missed the information about the size of the patch. Thank you.

So it's less than the Wii U's, that's not bad. Although you are right, and I didn't even consider it, they really should provide a disc to install the patch for those who don't have access to the Internet.

You could argue (and I know that you personally didn't, Strazdas) that people without Internet access shouldn't be buying launch hardware. But you could also make the, much better, argument that you shouldn't be shipping a $500 piece of hardware that won't work unless you hook it up to a broadband Internet connection for half an hour.

And the same goes for Sony/Nintendo. I don't know if they are going to provide/provided discs, but they should/should have.

yeah the topic didnt say the actual info the guy leaked so i had to fish for it on the internetz myself.
Microsoft already argued that people without internet shouldn't buy Xbox One and isntead buy new Xbox 360. The ragestorm that followed is not something i want to burden myself with.
Well, to be honest, the features you wont be having without Sonys patch are mostly internet related ones (streaming apps, ect) anyway, so if you dont have internet you wouldnt have been using them anyway. you can still play games off the bat with PS4, you cant with Xbox One.
I do not know enough about WiiU patch to state either way.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Releasing incomplete unfinished OS's sure, but essentially releasing an expensive brick? That's a new low even for Microsoft. Of course even if this sort of thing is expected of Microsoft that doesn't make it any less intolerable.

 

[Slash2x]

*Snip*
Our best source so far claims 500mb.

See that is still too big for people who do not have good or reliable internet. I lived in a rual area for a while and that would have been 2 days of downloading with the weak wireless signal we could get. Hopefully it lets you resume from where it stopped at last.... And any of my military buddies that ordered this to be sent to their overseas base will be getting a brick they can not use....

 

[theApoc]

Pretty much... Almost all devices require some kind of launch update.

except, you know, every device that isnt new console.

You made a really big post and said a whole lot of nothing...

thei said this was not possible because that would mean they would have to open up all existing already manufactured boxes and add it in, which they arent going to bother with because who cares about consumers right?

Yeah because wasting millions of dollars to fix something that can be done online in 20 minutes makes a ton a sense, for both MS and the consumer. I will go back to one of my original points. If you are not planning on using the XBOX or the PS4 online, to utilize ALL of the features available in the next generation, there really is little point in buying a new console. They have both said they would support the existing systems for several more years, which means that most titles will be released on old and new platforms. This has nothing to do with screwing the customer. There is no logical reason to have held up the device, or to recall it, just to make a 500mb patch. Which I am betting will be something that happens quite regularly for both systems.

the hate wagon exists because, as you stated: "most of the launch consoles were likely built and loaded with the software that assumed their cloud-based DRM would be used"

You have no proof of that and it is just as likely that several aspects of the software and apps were not quite ready, requiring a small patch on launch day. Here is the thing, speculation, not really a valid argument.

Were talking a month, when they had 3 motnhs + to do it. Sure, its cheaper to not produce a disc, but if you mess up your theo ne paying for fixing it up.

It would have been a colossal and pointless waste of money.

Without Day 0 patch PS4 can still do its primary function - play video games. Xbox cant.

Is that what they said? Cause I am pretty sure that is not what was said. And again, even if it were the case, this is more likely to be caused by publisher restrictions than MS. And the fact of the matter is that you have no idea what the PS4 will need on day one. I am betting it wants to connect to the internet as well.

So i take it you forgot the days when OS patches came bundled with game CDs, right? Bought new game, installer automatically updated your system because it needs that new system to play the game. no fuss no mus.

Utter nonsense. Really? Next you will be telling me they should put the patch in the back of Game Informer or some crap like that. Stop being ridiculous. Its a 2013 mult-media center, not a ps1. plain silly Oh, and by the way, in this day and age, the quick patch is pretty much exactly the same as what you described, accept digital.

Im sorry, my phone has been doing quite well without a network connection. it has been doing well for the past 10 years thank you very much. I do not own a sattelite though, so i cant dispute that. Both my PC and consoles could also do very well and fully function without networ connection. The only device that cannot is apperently the new consoles.

Um, no it hasn't. First of all it is connected to a cellular network, second of all if you have a smart phone, it's functionality is limited when removed from the network, and it is pretty much impossible to update it without a connection to the network. And if you have a smart phone, they generally do not go around unboxing the ones sitting on shelves everytime the OS is updated, they do a "wait for it" patch of the system when the device is bought. Why recall a bunch of inventory when it is far easier and more efficient to do it as they come in. Fully functional? So you can keep your old systems and computers up to date with all of your software without a network connection? Snail mailing update CDs? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. You are full of crap. You can use your systems just like anyone else without a connection, they are not however fully functional, seeing and one of their functions is inter connectivity.

The new consoles are designed for digital content. They have been saying this since they were announced. Nothing underhanded about telling you EXACTLY what you are getting. It is NOT a game console, it is a media center. Get that through your head and you will be just fine.

except for everyone that actually cares. people who could be on every 24 hours can download the patch. people who coudnt, still cant download the stuff.

Then you would be stupid to buy a next gen console, not wouldn't you... It's not like you are being forced to upgrade. Again, simply ridiculous.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Railing against the next gen for no particular reason. Ignoring the fact that both current gen systems are FAR more functional with a network connection and were the basis for the companies moving in this direction. Regardless, neither company has hid the fact that they are network based. Neither has claimed to be JUST a gaming machine. It's like buying a blue sweater then getting mad at the company that made it because its not green. Seriously, just stop. Sheesh

 

[theApoc]

To pick apart your example, no one buys an Ipod/pad just for Angry Birds, or any singular use (these days, remember when it was just about the music?). Kids excluded, but they couldn't pay for squat, and parents know they can find other uses for the device when the kids can understand them. Consoles had a different appeal, in that you could play a large variety of games easily, and that was their primary utility.

Of course proper judgment is withheld until the console is out, but then, of course, people have had to spend money on the damn things in order to experience what IS in the patch (unless patch details are displayed beforehand). People are still wondering (perhaps assuming) if the system is going to have its primary function of playing games available without an internet connection.

So, if not me, $400-$500 says your patronizing isn't necessary.

And now that is not their primary utility. It has not been for years. And even if games are the main reason you use a console, online gaming is far more prevalent now than it was when the last gen systems launched. They have made no bones about what these things are for, if you buy one knowing that, then yeah, the patronizing is absolutely necessary when you complain about having to do a system update.

XBOX One and PS4 are not Nintendos, or even PS2's and XBOX's. They are not DS's or Vita's. It is a media center, that happens to play games, not a game machine that happens to play media. Both consoles have evolved towards this. They pack as much hardware and software in it to make gameplay the best experience it can be, but at the end of the day, playing games is one of a hundred things these boxes are designed to do.

Might be a stretch, but this highlights the main problem in my first response. While the XBONE and the PS4 are not PS2's, or Nintendo's, or whatnot; their predecessors were (kind of). They still held that notion of 'pick up and play' gaming. That's history; history that people have adopted systems early for, spread positive word for, and might be a bit miffed if that history turns on its head.

Sorry but you have no reason to think based on the changes in marketing strategy by both major console providers that "plug and play" gaming is even still a thing that matters to them. Ouya, Shield, Vita, DS... Those are plug and play gaming devices. Nothing about these systems has EVER implied this to be their purpose. Most of the changes to the consoles involve social gaming, which implies connectivity.

Besides, you're REALLY going to making an argument that next gen work more like media centers that happen to play games? As if we couldn't see this coming with current gen??? It's not much of an evolution, at least, if you expect new features. This is more a shift in priorities, from games to media (like you said, 'happen to play games'). Not even mentioning that plenty of devices do this already, but perhaps gaming enthusiasts are not ready to see the homogenization of games into every other form of media out there (CoD slight exception; on the favor backslide currently). Gaming is relatively new, and part of the general appeal of this medium is novelty. Who wants to play the exact same game, repeatedly, for years on end?

Gaming enthusiasts are not the core market, and you know why? Because of stuff like the nonsense posted here. "gamers" are fickle, often snobbish and will turn tail at the drop of a hat. Neither company is relying on "gamers" as their core market. It wasn't gamers who were still buying last gen systems like crazy last year. It was families, casuals, people who want something that can do lots of different things. Yes, the launch price point is for gamers, but in 6 months when these systems are 300 dollars, maybe 350. Yeah gamers are not going to be the ones still buying/upgrading. In short, gamers are not very relevant to the long term success of either console. Especially since most of the biggest titles are not console exclusives, so picking one system over another becomes little more than a matter of preference.

Again, it's fine if the console corps want to pursue this route. They're about profits, and if it's somehow profitable to kick the brand loyalists under the rug in favor of a new consumer base every generation, then Microsoft and Sony can work some magic. I, for one, won't have it.

Then you will be needlessly left behind. They have added functionality. Taken nothing away, and are doing more and more to grow the gaming community. Your elitist "it should be for games" attitude is not serving anyone. These are entertainment systems, why not just join in on the fun and save your ire for something else. How about Bieber or Myley, they both suck, why not rail against them.

 

[Strazdas]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Releasing incomplete unfinished OS's sure, but essentially releasing an expensive brick? That's a new low even for Microsoft. Of course even if this sort of thing is expected of Microsoft that doesn't make it any less intolerable.

It is true, however they quite openly stated this is the case 6 months ago. I never said that its tolerable, i said that since its microsoft, we arent shocked.

*Snip*
Our best source so far claims 500mb.

See that is still too big for people who do not have good or reliable internet. I lived in a rual area for a while and that would have been 2 days of downloading with the weak wireless signal we could get. Hopefully it lets you resume from where it stopped at last.... And any of my military buddies that ordered this to be sent to their overseas base will be getting a brick they can not use....

Of course, as i said, online patch does not fix the "but i dont have internet" problem in any way. I just mentioned its size becuase alot of people were speculating here. speculating of up to 5 gb mind you! Sadly, it is still the poor state of internet where people have acutal monthly limitations, and even poorer state where such limitations sometimes are limited to 1 or 2 GB per month, which would make this patch possible whereas 5 gb one - not.
To be honest microsoft kinda said "dont buy it" for all the miliatry people as well. then again, uneducated consumers are going to be very angry about it. and i dont blame them. all consoles in history worked differently than Xbox One.

You made a really big post and said a whole lot of nothing...

And you made a lot of posts, sometimes doubleposting. Whats your point?

Yeah because wasting millions of dollars to fix something that can be done online in 20 minutes makes a ton a sense, for both MS and the consumer. I will go back to one of my original points. If you are not planning on using the XBOX or the PS4 online, to utilize ALL of the features available in the next generation, there really is little point in buying a new console. They have both said they would support the existing systems for several more years, which means that most titles will be released on old and new platforms. This has nothing to do with screwing the customer. There is no logical reason to have held up the device, or to recall it, just to make a 500mb patch. Which I am betting will be something that happens quite regularly for both systems.

It CANT be done online because people dont have internet. All consoles before them, all electronic devices even, worked without internet as a necessity. This one is the first device that breaks this. Im sure even you can understand how that will trick a lot of people into buying an expensive metal brick. Despite massive wave of peopel telling them NOT to buy it, microsoft itself included, they still bought it, and thats on them, but you were arguing that consoles are doing nothing new with this requirements, which was false.
As for your wasting millions of dollars. Well yes, if you mess up THIS BAD, you not only have to, you MUST fix it. It is your duty to fix it And even if it costs money it still is. doing anything less is intentionally shitting on your consumers, and possibly illegal.

You have no proof of that and it is just as likely that several aspects of the software and apps were not quite ready, requiring a small patch on launch day. Here is the thing, speculation, not really a valid argument.

Microsoft Xbo reveal has stated multiple times that it was designed to work with always-online DRM. which they later had to fix due to obviuos fan uproar. The Game functionality was definitely ready long before the release day. Without it the developers could not develop and test their games. Unless you imply that all games are being developed within last month or so.

It would have been a colossal and pointless waste of money.

Doing your duty and fixing what you broke is waste of money. Okay.....

Is that what they said? Cause I am pretty sure that is not what was said. And again, even if it were the case, this is more likely to be caused by publisher restrictions than MS. And the fact of the matter is that you have no idea what the PS4 will need on day one. I am betting it wants to connect to the internet as well.

Yes, it is. Sony has said that PS4 can play games without day 0 patch. Microsoft has said that Day0 patch removes the always online DRM and bought console has it till the patch is applied, which means that it will ask you to connect to microsoft before letting you play a game, therefore will not play games without internet.

Utter nonsense. Really? Next you will be telling me they should put the patch in the back of Game Informer or some crap like that. Stop being ridiculous. Its a 2013 mult-media center, not a ps1. plain silly Oh, and by the way, in this day and age, the quick patch is pretty much exactly the same as what you described, accept digital.

Yeah, i guess you do not remmeber the pathes with the games then. It is very easy to provide patches bundled with the games, in fact, if your using first party games there is no extra costs at all. you still got to cook those discs anyway. i never said anything about game magazines so not sure why you included them.
I am digital. I havent bought a phyiscal copy in a long time. i have my PC connected to high speed unlimited internet 24/7. However thats because i CAN do that. the thing to realize is that very few people even have the option to accept digital. Or is your opinion same as microsofts: "fuck them"

Um, no it hasn't. First of all it is connected to a cellular network, second of all if you have a smart phone, it's functionality is limited when removed from the network, and it is pretty much impossible to update it without a connection to the network. And if you have a smart phone, they generally do not go around unboxing the ones sitting on shelves everytime the OS is updated, they do a "wait for it" patch of the system when the device is bought. Why recall a bunch of inventory when it is far easier and more efficient to do it as they come in. Fully functional? So you can keep your old systems and computers up to date with all of your software without a network connection? Snail mailing update CDs? Yeah that makes a ton of sense. You are full of crap. You can use your systems just like anyone else without a connection, they are not however fully functional, seeing and one of their functions is inter connectivity.

The new consoles are designed for digital content. They have been saying this since they were announced. Nothing underhanded about telling you EXACTLY what you are getting. It is NOT a game console, it is a media center. Get that through your head and you will be just fine.

Phone needs cellular network for its functionality. cellular network is NOT internet network. without internet network phone can still do its primary functionality - make calls. Even if its uber new smartphone. In fact, my smartphone retains over 90% of functionality offline, though i do have to fight with google to let me use offline instalation since it seems to think that direct donwload (wifi wont work btw) is the only way to downlaod apps. i defy them there.
When smartphone is sold, it works in its full functionality without an update. Update is an OPTIONAL thing. that is the whole point - in Xbox it is not optional.
I can keep my system fully functional without updates, yes. It may not be maximum efficiency and stability, but fully functional. Except, of course, if i buy Xbox. by disabling network i will loose functionality directly related to network. On Xbox however you loose ALL functionality. thats the difference you seem to be unable to grasp.
So i take it your current media center also needs internet to play a DVD?

Then you would be stupid to buy a next gen console, not wouldn't you... It's not like you are being forced to upgrade. Again, simply ridiculous.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Railing against the next gen for no particular reason. Ignoring the fact that both current gen systems are FAR more functional with a network connection and were the basis for the companies moving in this direction. Regardless, neither company has hid the fact that they are network based. Neither has claimed to be JUST a gaming machine. It's like buying a blue sweater then getting mad at the company that made it because its not green. Seriously, just stop. Sheesh

And i am not buying it. In fact, noone should. BUt then again, we dont live in a perfect world. how about all those millions of people that dont have so much time to actually know what microsoft is about? how about those that expect that a Console (and yes, Xbox One IS A CONSOLE) would act like a console.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Releasing incomplete unfinished OS's sure, but essentially releasing an expensive brick? That's a new low even for Microsoft. Of course even if this sort of thing is expected of Microsoft that doesn't make it any less intolerable.

It is true, however they quite openly stated this is the case 6 months ago. I never said that its tolerable, i said that since its microsoft, we arent shocked.

They did? I must've missed that one. Still it distresses me that despite this an alarming number of people are just going to roll over and accept it. ...and buy the damn console.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

Since when does the Internet give manufacturers a free pass to ship incomplete or buggy products? A game can get away with it to a degree, but hardware? I've never heard of a motherboard or TV that came out of the box with reduced functionality until a firmware update could be applied.

This is poor product planning, rushing to get a buggy product onto shelves. I hope heads metaphorically roll at MS for this kind of blunder. The Internet does not make it okay to ship a product before it's ready and a poor OOB experience is still a poor OOB experience however you spin it.

 

[Strazdas]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Releasing incomplete unfinished OS's sure, but essentially releasing an expensive brick? That's a new low even for Microsoft. Of course even if this sort of thing is expected of Microsoft that doesn't make it any less intolerable.

It is true, however they quite openly stated this is the case 6 months ago. I never said that its tolerable, i said that since its microsoft, we arent shocked.

They did? I must've missed that one. Still it distresses me that despite this an alarming number of people are just going to roll over and accept it. ...and buy the damn console.

When Microsoft changed his opinion about using DRM, they later stated that they are going to remove it with a patch to the system. Then we were told that such patch will have to be downloaded. maybe 6 months is a bit too long, but its not like we werent told about it.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Way to go Microsoft. I mean I already knew you were fucking stupid, but this is beyond what I thought even you were capable of. Shipping the thing with an incomplete OS, WTF?

Your implying microsoft OS releases were ever complete at launch date. Really most OS only became stable enough to use normally after multiple fixes and patches. And some never did (im looking at you vista).

Ok fair enough, but essentially releasing an empty box that has to have the actual OS downloaded to it afterwords is a bit much even for Microsoft.

If it was anything else i would agree. Microsoft however? nah, sounds like the usual deal.

Releasing incomplete unfinished OS's sure, but essentially releasing an expensive brick? That's a new low even for Microsoft. Of course even if this sort of thing is expected of Microsoft that doesn't make it any less intolerable.

It is true, however they quite openly stated this is the case 6 months ago. I never said that its tolerable, i said that since its microsoft, we arent shocked.

They did? I must've missed that one. Still it distresses me that despite this an alarming number of people are just going to roll over and accept it. ...and buy the damn console.

When Microsoft changed his opinion about using DRM, they later stated that they are going to remove it with a patch to the system. Then we were told that such patch will have to be downloaded. maybe 6 months is a bit too long, but its not like we werent told about it.

Ok so they said that a day one patch would be required some time ago, but that's not quite the same thing as saying the thing won't do anything without the day one patch. Not that either case is particularly acceptable.

 

[theApoc]

And i am not buying it. In fact, noone should. BUt then again, we dont live in a perfect world. how about all those millions of people that dont have so much time to actually know what microsoft is about? how about those that expect that a Console (and yes, Xbox One IS A CONSOLE) would act like a console.

Then what are you complaining about? PS4 will need an update on day one as well. As pretty much EVERYONE knew it would. Why? Because these devices are intended to be connected to the internet. Your argument is based SOLELY on your incorrect assessment that these are just game consoles. They are not, they were never presented as such, and they were not marketed as such. Flashy games/graphics is what they use to get you to upgrade, but in the end, it is only ONE aspect of what these machines are capable of.

Bottom line. MS has been upfront about the console needing an internet connection to be set up from pretty much day one. They have told you exactly what to expect, so you really have no reason to complain.

And your phone, yeah it needs a network to operate, cellular or otherwise. You are trying to say that it can do it's primary function without an external connection, which is wrong.

 

[Glaice]

So what is stopping MS from shipping the Xbox One with a DVD with the essential patch for those with crappy or no internet?

 

[Strazdas]

Ok so they said that a day one patch would be required some time ago, but that's not quite the same thing as saying the thing won't do anything without the day one patch. Not that either case is particularly acceptable.

They said that the Xbox will not play games without internet connection, and the only way to remove this block is to download a patch, which, requires internet connection. and since as soon as you connect it will decide to download day 0 patch, it kinda is not doing anything without the patch.

Then what are you complaining about? PS4 will need an update on day one as well. As pretty much EVERYONE knew it would. Why? Because these devices are intended to be connected to the internet. Your argument is based SOLELY on your incorrect assessment that these are just game consoles. They are not, they were never presented as such, and they were not marketed as such. Flashy games/graphics is what they use to get you to upgrade, but in the end, it is only ONE aspect of what these machines are capable of.

Bottom line. MS has been upfront about the console needing an internet connection to be set up from pretty much day one. They have told you exactly what to expect, so you really have no reason to complain.

And your phone, yeah it needs a network to operate, cellular or otherwise. You are trying to say that it can do it's primary function without an external connection, which is wrong.

No, PS4 will not NEED an update on day 0 to work. Xbox will NEED an update on day 0 to work. PS4 will be able to do more with an update, but if you have no internet you can still use PS4. You cant for Xbox.
PS4 was marketed with "Games first". It is true that microsoft has always tried to push it more as a TV watching system and skype calls box than anything related to games. Though that still does not mean it must require internet.
You can take a weapon and use it as a paperweight, so shooting isnt the only aspect its capable of, still its main purpose is still shooting. same is for games on game consoles.

MS was upfront about it, you are correct. and due to this they received reserved criticism. Then again, you have to take MS statements with a grain of salt when it seems that a week afterwards they claim something completely opposite as was shown multiple times with advertisement. And when you cant trust the word of manufacturer, who do you trust?

No, i said my phone can do its primal fucntion without internet. this is true fact. you somehow try to claim otherwise.

So what is stopping MS from shipping the Xbox One with a DVD with the essential patch for those with crappy or no internet?

They have said that it would be "too much work" for them.