Right. Well still a massive misstep for Microsoft. The depressing thing is, as I've mentioned before, is that Microsoft will still sell a buttload of these.Strazdas said:
Translation: They couldn't be bothered to.Strazdas said:
Xbox One "Will Do Very Little" Without Day-One Patch
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
As stated in the review of the PS4:Strazdas said:
So in the end you are splitting hairs. PS4 will work without a network connection, however for what you will get for your $400 by not connecting to the internet, it may as well be an XBOX One. You need an internet connection to use the features of these consoles. Period. If you don't have one, you are wasting money. Period.
And your phone, cannot make calls without connecting to a network, be it the cellular, internet, satellite or old fashioned cable. It is useless without the network just like any other inter connected device. You are confusing internet with network. These consoles need network connectivity to access the internet. They do not HAVE to be connected to the "internet".
Look, I get what you are saying, I actually do. Things should work "out of the box", but that is not the world we live in when it comes to electronics. And neither company has been decietful about it's intentions. Assumption and interpretation aside. There are MANY reasons for always online. For digital licenses locking content to a console. For limiting license transfer. And very few of them ONLY benefit Sony or MS.
Microsoft have been making it very clear what level of competency they intend to operate on this generation with all their press, and it's good to know that they're going to be following through on that.
Well, I don't have the internet at my current house, so...
Oh well, I'm not getting either of the new consoles for at least 2-3 months anyway. Possibly longer.
Oh well, I'm not getting either of the new consoles for at least 2-3 months anyway. Possibly longer.
question is, did they try to play with a console before plugging it online? because Playstation always worked in a way of "if offline" it works normally, but if its online it wont let you do anything till you update. kinda shitty way of treating it, but not an actual test whether it will work without an update if they conencted it from the beginning.theApoc said:
I agree that people without internet buying new console are wasting their money, but i dont agree that the consoles are of equal (or adequate) quality at launch.
My phone will need cellular network to make calls (cellular network is not internet network). It will not need any network to do everything else. I can easily buy a phone and paly games on it without connecting it to cellular network ever. On the Xbox One however you will have to need network in order to do things that do not need such network. This is a FAULT in design.
Yes, the thing should work out of the box. And all electronics do, except the new consoles, which is why there is a problem. This was the world we lived on till those consoles launched. they made the change, hence we are angry.
License transfer should not be limited. digital games must be resellable. but thats another discussion. So your "benefits" arent actually benefits. they are limitations.
I agree, the XBOX One is actually a lot more value for your money at launch, even with an update requirement. PS4 may play games "out of the box" but that is pretty much all it will do. Hell you can't even play CD's in the thing. Once connected to the internet, it gains a lot of features, but those things are still years behind what is offered by XBL.Strazdas said:
It can't be a fault in design if they intended it to be used as such. Your phone is not intended to work without a network, unlike something like a radio station. They broadcast and there are receivers available. No direct connection. Network connectivity allows a back and forth by default. XBOX One needs an update to run 100%, so does PS4. They made the importance of network connections very clear. They were BOTH designed that way. It is not a failure, in this case it is a feature.
On you last point, that is simply untrue. Very few electronic things simply work out of the box. Phones all need updates, and account linkages, and any number of other updates. TVs, require other devices to function 100%. Sorry, but that statement is simply not true.
With the launch of PS4 and some of the problems I am seeing, I think consumer expectation is way too high. It is a robust piece of hardware, being shipped all over the world. It may sit in a warehouse for months and the OS is not a stagnant entity. I think you should be happy they are willing and able to update. And seriously, you are actually complaining that they want to make these things better over time.
But the mere fact that any of this is necessary justifies people anger. Not that the PS4 won't need some sort of Day 1 update as well, of course, but my sympathy for Microsoft is basically spent at this point. They made terrible consumer product choices, and now they're having to dig their way out. They've done an admirable job of not being completely evil lately though.smithy_2045 said:
Xbox One - does nothing without day 0 patch.theApoc said:
PS4 - does play games without day 0 patch.
So that means, Xbox One is more value at launch?
Once connected to the internet, you get acess to services on XBL that you pay for. You get acess to same services (except online multiplayer) for free on PS4.
There can be fault in design by intention. Example - DRM.theApoc said:
My phone is intended t work with cellular network, without internet. It can still work without cellular network. in fact, it has a special mdoe to disconnect from it by default.
Phones dont need updates to work. Updates may make them work better, but they can work without them - example: my phone that works for 4 years without updates. Tvs do not require other devices. Plug in an antena and youll be watching TV. unless you consider a piece of metal "other devices". It also needs no internet connection. Fridges require no internet. Cars require no internet. Computers require no internet, every other device requires no internet to function and do its main purpose... except Xbox One.theApoc said:
What problems? the 0.4% failure rate (in comparison Xbox 360 was believed to be over 40%)? The poor reviews of games to launch (which is not PS4s fault)? what other problems are you seeing there, care to share your wisdom?theApoc said:
Yes, it is good that they are willing and albe to update. It is not good when said update is a requirement to function. Update should always be an Option, not a Requirement.
Heh, kind of a weird day. Usually, you and I have some kinda' dispute in something, but now I find you slamming some other guy who's trying to argue pro X-Bone when both the Sony and Microsoft fans are against it. Dark days indeed...Strazdas said:
OT: So! Microsoft! I hear you're done with the gaming business. Couldn't you have just made sort of an announcement instead of sinking anything more into this money pit of a console? You 180'd your 180! Predictably! Or to sum it up in one word:
[HEADING=1]X-BONE'D![/HEADING]
Good fight, good night...
This is so. However, in this case, it's not a bad thing. I don't even buy X-Box stuff and I think this is tremendously wrong...pretty much for the sake of people who DO. Alot of my college friends use X-Box, as does my brother-in-law. They wouldn't wanna be shafted either, so the hell with this system.Strazdas said:
Well, yeah. Because you see, had they never attempted that asinine DRM scheme in the first place, this would not have been necessary. And many people who don't have internet won't be able to get the patch.Revolutionary said:
any one besides me remember when 'day-1' meant you could plug it in and just play the game with out all this bullshit? technological improvements my ass.
The difference is at least the PS4 can play games without the update, and you can request a disc via customer service in case you have no plans to connect to the internet. Although the basic premise is the same.Riff Moonraker said:
After all this you are just PS4 fanboying? Seriously? You CANNOT play the full games on a PS4 without connecting. At least not all of them. You will not be able to buy ANY game for the PS4 and play it completely without an internet connection. This is as much the doing of the publishers as it is Sony. Your statement about "working out of the box" is disingenuous and based on the assumption that PS4 was intended to be used without an internet connection. Sadly, like XBOX One, it wasn't. So while it may "work", it does very little at launch, just like XBOX. Your complaining about nothing relevant to this generation of console. 7 years ago, yes you would have had a point, now, not so much.Strazdas said:
I am going to sum up your misconceptions about this topic with that statement. A TV in and of itself CANNOT do much of anything without an external source. I hate to tell you but an antenna is pretty much equivalent to a network router in this instance. It facilitates the TV's connection to a signal, without which it is a brick.
NEITHER console will work 100% without an update. Period. That is a fact. If you are suggesting that being able to operate something at 25% without an internet connection is better than simply connecting and operating at 100%, yeah, that is just silly. Look, enjoy your barely functional PS4 and your non networked computers. Let me know how that phone works when there is no cell signal, and tell me how great your shows look with a TV connected to nothing...
Me, PS4 fanboy? Please stop associating me with peasants good sir!theApoc said:
Now that we got that out of the way....
Either you prove that PS4 cannot play games without an update or you stop saying that. Just because you repeat it, it does not become true.
Playing single player games are intended to be played without internet connection. If it is not - the game is broken by design.
Yes, Xbox is broken by design, which is why it recieves so much hate. PS4 however CAN play games without internet, which makes the problem less relevant.
Your misconception is that you consider any network equivalent of Internet connection. IT IS NOT. cellular network nor radio waves are nowhere close to internet connection. Besides, TV wont demand you to have antenna. you can do anything you want with it even if you dont have it. Like, for example, play console games without internet.
Oh wait, you cant anymore.
No, i am suggesting that being able to operate something at 25% without internet connection is better than being able to operate something at 0% without internet connection just because the makers decided to put arbitrry limitations (broken by design).
Yes, it will do more with internet, the problem is, Xbox wont do anything without internet.
"simply connecting" is a fallacy to begin with. there is nothing simple about connecting to internet, and jsut because most service prividers hide it all does not mean its not there.
And yes, my phone works without cellular connection and it has worked for years without internet connection. My TV hasnt had a cable in it for 5 years till i finally plugged it in this year. and it worked as good as ever. and i watched TV shows on it. Its just that imput was different - you know, the one that i prefer, not the one the manufacturer forced me into.
Edit: actually, i found proof you were wrong about PS4
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2427050,00.asp