Yahtzee is going to murder Saints Row: The Third.

[remnant_phoenix]

There are some key things about Yahtzee ,that he has distinctly stated about himself, that people regularly seem to forget:

He is a "critic," and he goes out of his way to call himself a "critic," not a "reviewer," and there is a subtle, yet distinct, difference there. He doesn't see his job as reviewing a game and giving an overall opinion, good and bad. He sees his job as criticizing a game, pointing out its flaws and ragging on them, even if they are petty and nit-picky criticisms.

He ENJOYS taking the piss out of something and ruining other people's enjoyment of something.

He is a jaded, cynical, misanthrope.

He doesn't believe that people should actually listen to his opinion! His own words: "Do you really need someone in 'authority' giving you a simple 'yay' or 'nay' before you buy something?!"

With a modicum of observation and critical thinking skills it becomes quite clear: Zero Punctutation is NOT meant to be taken seriously. It is NOT a review show meant to give a balanced perspective and enlighten potential consumers of a product.

It is more like a roast, a foul-mouthed writer expousing foul analogies for the things he doesn't like about video games, whether he likes the overall game or not. I'd even argue that ZP may be a satire of video game reviewing, and if anything is designed NOT to be taken seriously, it's satire.

 

[masticina]

Seriously "You haven't done everything"

Take Oblivion one of the biggest sandboxes around so to say and yet there are things you should know. For instance it is pretty much impossible to be good in everything, that or you are going to GRIND yourself up.

Being the "I can do everything 100%" really is not feasible. Quite a few players will stick with what they like. Their sword, their fist combat.. maybe they go pure mage but in short they will make a build fitting their gameplay.

This means that indeed a player might not have done 100% ... are you complaining about that?

Look at skyrim, as far as I see there is a limited amount of perks you can get. Guess what you CAN"T get everything.. but you can become a super bow bandit sneaker..

Or even for the first time actually a full time mage. Because in Oblivion mages ..well pure mages don't work!

 

[Fayathon]

If anyone actually listened to Yahtzee's opinions, no one would play anything except for Silent Hill 2 over and over again.

Thing is, I actually do listen to his reviews, but I've compared what he says about a game to what I've experienced in it (should I have played it) and use that as a guideline to what his newest reviews say. I find he's a lot more honest about issues with games than most reviewers out there, once you've gotten the correct filter set in your mind anyways.

 

[aba1]

snip?

Also Killer7, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Bioshock, Psychonauts, Left 4 Dead 1&2... It goes on to be honest. Still, I think predicting it's gonna be a "IT'S THE SAME F****** GAME" is probably justified. I still want it.

honestly saints 2 and 3 are very very different games other than the genre and the fact is sorta a extension to the story barely that there really not a whole lot in common between the games they are increasingly different

 

[Vault101]

I hardly expcet glowing armiration...but Im having a blast so far

"so much of the good stuff is compeltly gone" could you care to explain that?

and anyway..in the end its just yahtzees opinion..some people take it too seriously

Yeah, I must be missing what's gone. Then again, I'm pretty early in the game.

A lot of the customisation is gone, and I bitched and moaned, but that alone isn't enough to turn me off from the game or really to count as a lot of the game going missing in general.

I don't think he'll hate the game, let alone murder it. And honestly, all I really care about is that his review is amusing. I can't stand the mentality where people love his shtick only until he picks on a game they like.

personally though, the trade-off for customization isnt so bad, because it seems easyer to make a half decent looking charachter and the hair styles are better plus for female you can have a crzy "russion" voice....its nicole belic! (Nicole..niko?...get it?..sorry) plus from the little Ive played It feels liek there are more outfits availible...and generally it all looks better

unlike SR2 where is I was constantly fiddiling around to get the "Ideal" out fit..but settled on one style..again thats just me

anyway..I havnt played much but I feel that my SR2 charachter and SR3 are slighty different,even though I purposly made them as similar as I could for continuity

obviously because I think they got different actors (I went with the default white females voice in both cases) but for some reason SR3 boss seems a little more likeable, a little less of a cold hard btich (then again thats sure to come out later I would imagine)

like this this weird part where her and perice are in a car...laughing and singing along to the radio..and its soo weird because she sounds like a normal..happy person messing around...even though shes a friggen evil sociopath (I foudn that whole sequence kind of sweet in a way)

 

[Vault101]

There are some key things about Yahtzee ,that he has distinctly stated about himself, that people regularly seem to forget:

He is a "critic," and he goes out of his way to call himself a "critic," not a "reviewer," and there is a subtle, yet distinct, difference there. He doesn't see his job as reviewing a game and giving an overall opinion, good and bad. He sees his job as criticizing a game, pointing out its flaws and ragging on them, even if they are petty and nit-picky criticisms.

He ENJOYS taking the piss out of something and ruining other people's enjoyment of something.

He is a jaded, cynical, misanthrope.

He doesn't believe that people should actually listen to his opinion! His own words: "Do you really need someone in 'authority' giving you a simple 'yay' or 'nay' before you buy something?!"

With a modicum of observation and critical thinking skills it becomes quite clear: Zero Punctutation is NOT meant to be taken seriously. It is NOT a review show meant to give a balanced perspective and enlighten potential consumers of a product.

It is more like a roast, a foul-mouthed writer expousing foul analogies for the things he doesn't like about video games, whether he likes the overall game or not. I'd even argue that ZP may be a satire of video game reviewing, and if anything is designed NOT to be taken seriously, it's satire.

It's really hilarious people who complain "ZP isn't meant to be taken seriously! Therefor his bashing of my favorite game isn't valid!" Of course it's meant to be taken seriously, Yahtzee is simply stating his opinion, and if you can't tell when he's exagerating for comedic effect or when he's serious, then you've probably hav met like two people in your entire life.

One example when he's exagerating, he says that the vehicle-sections in Mass Effect was like a fat man riding a unicycle. Obviously this is meant ot be funny, but if you have any social skills you'll see a complaint here, namely that the vehicle-sections controls like shit. It pretty weird, seeing that people don't understand that just because he's funny, it doesn't mean that he's serious.

And I really do not understand why people get so upset when he's bashing your game. If he doesn't like it, fine for you, and if you like it great for you, you've got a fun game.I love Mass Effect 2, but Yahtzee pretyt clearly didn't like it that much. But hey, I know I'm getting enjoyment out of it, and now I know that he isn't, more fun for me then.

Now of course comes the question, "If you have your opinion, why are you listening to him, then?", the thing is, I've rarely found a game he reccomended to turn out bad, and I don't have the money or time to buy and play every single game that comes out there. And here a rely on Yahtzee to sort of sort out which are mediocre, which are bad and which are great.

But ZP is definetly serious, sure he doesn't act or talk that in real life, but if you aren't stupid, you'll know when he recomends a game or not, and that he actually points of all the good things about a game too.

yeah, of coarse his reveiws have good points...and if he sugests a game then Ill likley check it out

but that doesnt mean one should completley disregard a game if he doesnt give it high praise (you know..yahtzees version of high praise) because not everyone shares the "everything is shit" mentality

he wasnt such a fan of Mass effect 2..does that made mass effect 2 a bad game? no..its more that fact that some people worship him like some prophet, and dont have thier own opinion..just emulate his (his cynasm is entertaining and informative in his videos...but its fucking annoying anywhere else)

"ohhh yes yahtzee!! your right! like always!! this game is shit and i wont DARE touch it!! (see?? see?? look how awsome me and my tatse in games is!)

generally you can tell when he rips into somthing (mass effect 2) and really really REALLY rips into somthing (kane and lynch 2)

 

[TheCowman]

The point on that is that that was one of the big reasons Yahtzee loved SR2, was how amazing the character customization was. It isn't stupid to see less customization in the third game as a flaw.

I was a little bummed about that too.

Until I got the game and found there were still tons of outfits to choose from and that I could still make my cockney crime lord and my girl gangster look just as awesome as I wanted.

like this this weird part where her and perice are in a car...laughing and singing along to the radio..and its soo weird because she sounds like a normal..happy person messing around...even though shes a friggen evil sociopath (I foudn that whole sequence kind of sweet in a way)

That moment was one of the awesomest in the game for me. And with everything that goes on in SR3, that's saying something. It was such a simple thing, but came across as so fun and genuine. It gave me more of a feeling of comradery between the two than any number of serious games have done.

Saints Row has been a baffling series for me from the start. I've never liked the "gangsta"/thug mentality, and while I respect the GTA series for what it does, I've never been a fan of the games. I like playing the good guy.

I first tried Saints Row simply because it had a character creator. (I'm a sucker for character creation.) And while I often found myself rolling my eyes at the game's gangbanger trappings, I still found myself having a lot of fun.

It was enough for me to pick up SR2 when it came out, and that just cemented it. The main character was the same douchebag that he was in the first game; but somehow he still managed to be likable to me. ME! The 100% Paragon, rescuing puppies from trees, hero-type.

Now I'm deep into SR3, and my little gangbangers are even more lovable than before. How are they doing this?

 

[Erttheking]

If anyone actually listened to Yahtzee's opinions, no one would play anything except for Silent Hill 2 over and over again.

...or the four Prince of Persia games.

...or Portal 1&2.

...or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.

...or Silent Hill 3&4.

...or Batman: Arkham Asylum.

...or Super Mario Galaxy.

...or Resistance 3.

...or Driver: San Francisco.

Do you actually watch his reviews, or do you just complain anyway?

I recall him tearing half of those new games to shreds, besides, what he meant was if people took Yahtzee seriously, they would have a very small game library.

 

[evilneko]

Anyone else notice OP did not quantify exactly what is gone?

'cus I sure did.

 

[Erttheking]

There are some key things about Yahtzee ,that he has distinctly stated about himself, that people regularly seem to forget:

He is a "critic," and he goes out of his way to call himself a "critic," not a "reviewer," and there is a subtle, yet distinct, difference there. He doesn't see his job as reviewing a game and giving an overall opinion, good and bad. He sees his job as criticizing a game, pointing out its flaws and ragging on them, even if they are petty and nit-picky criticisms.

He ENJOYS taking the piss out of something and ruining other people's enjoyment of something.

He is a jaded, cynical, misanthrope.

He doesn't believe that people should actually listen to his opinion! His own words: "Do you really need someone in 'authority' giving you a simple 'yay' or 'nay' before you buy something?!"

With a modicum of observation and critical thinking skills it becomes quite clear: Zero Punctutation is NOT meant to be taken seriously. It is NOT a review show meant to give a balanced perspective and enlighten potential consumers of a product.

It is more like a roast, a foul-mouthed writer expousing foul analogies for the things he doesn't like about video games, whether he likes the overall game or not. I'd even argue that ZP may be a satire of video game reviewing, and if anything is designed NOT to be taken seriously, it's satire.

It's really hilarious people who complain "ZP isn't meant to be taken seriously! Therefor his bashing of my favorite game isn't valid!" Of course it's meant to be taken seriously, Yahtzee is simply stating his opinion, and if you can't tell when he's exagerating for comedic effect or when he's serious, then you've probably hav met like two people in your entire life.

One example when he's exagerating, he says that the vehicle-sections in Mass Effect was like a fat man riding a unicycle. Obviously this is meant ot be funny, but if you have any social skills you'll see a complaint here, namely that the vehicle-sections controls like shit. It pretty weird, seeing that people don't understand that just because he's funny, it doesn't mean that he's serious.

And I really do not understand why people get so upset when he's bashing your game. If he doesn't like it, fine for you, and if you like it great for you, you've got a fun game.I love Mass Effect 2, but Yahtzee pretyt clearly didn't like it that much. But hey, I know I'm getting enjoyment out of it, and now I know that he isn't, more fun for me then.

Now of course comes the question, "If you have your opinion, why are you listening to him, then?", the thing is, I've rarely found a game he reccomended to turn out bad, and I don't have the money or time to buy and play every single game that comes out there. And here a rely on Yahtzee to sort of sort out which are mediocre, which are bad and which are great.

But ZP is definetly serious, sure he doesn't act or talk that in real life, but if you aren't stupid, you'll know when he recomends a game or not, and that he actually points of all the good things about a game too.

True you can take his opinion into account...if you give a crap what someone as filled with hate as Yahtzee has to say that is. And the thing is why the bloody Hell are we not allowed to criticize him? Every single time someone complains about Yahtzee, people jump on them saying "Oh stop being butthurt" or "LOL you mad fanboy" I guess he's the only one allowed to tear things apart, is that the case? He's just expressing his opinion about games? Well we're just expressing our opinions about him (I also recall him expressing my opinion about me when he called the Halo fan base a bunch of meta c**ts so I don't see why we can't talk about him) Yeah I listen to him, but that's mainly for the jokes though, which I find to be pretty funny, but whenever I go to Extra Punctuation, where is supposed to be serious and he still has that tree stuck up his rear when he continues to rip apart every last thing about the video game industry, and it drives me up the wall. The main reason I let his opinion go die in the corner is because he isn't in the crowd for anything I would consider buying and he gets way too worked up over trivial details, I have no idea what's supposed to be wrong with regenerating health or cover based combat. Oh and I think I should throw something in, on his recommendation I bought the Orange box...Half Life and Portal freaking suck.

 

[Something Amyss]

personally though, the trade-off for customization isnt so bad, because it seems easyer to make a half decent looking charachter and the hair styles are better plus for female you can have a crzy "russion" voice....its nicole belic! (Nicole..niko?...get it?..sorry) plus from the little Ive played It feels liek there are more outfits availible...and generally it all looks better

unlike SR2 where is I was constantly fiddiling around to get the "Ideal" out fit..but settled on one style..again thats just me

anyway..I havnt played much but I feel that my SR2 charachter and SR3 are slighty different,even though I purposly made them as similar as I could for continuity

obviously because I think they got different actors (I went with the default white females voice in both cases) but for some reason SR3 boss seems a little more likeable, a little less of a cold hard btich (then again thats sure to come out later I would imagine)

like this this weird part where her and perice are in a car...laughing and singing along to the radio..and its soo weird because she sounds like a normal..happy person messing around...even though shes a friggen evil sociopath (I foudn that whole sequence kind of sweet in a way)

I never had a problem finding a decent outfit. Oddly enough, once I got enough regular income from stores in this one, I'm STILL buying a lot of outfits. It'd be so much sweeter if I could layer, though. I know it's relatively minor, but I loved the flexibility.

I technically liked the streamlined slider for body build, because that's my second least favourite thing in character creation. First is the face. I have trouble doing faces, and I just did my second trip to the plastic surgeon to fix my character (She looks laright standing still, but weird in cutscenes and the like...Hard to judge in IAD)

I preferred the dryer voice from the last game. Might not have worked as well for the sing-along, but still. It's not a big enough difference to be a sticking point, but I'd love to hear the lines from this one with the dry delivery.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

so much of the good stuff is compeltly gone. yes its more wacky and over the top but too much that made SR2 a great game is gone, making SR3 just a "good" game.

many aspects of SR3 will appeal to him like no other game has but i feel that SR2 will seem the better overall in his eyes.

Who cares about his opinion anyway
I believe he said somewhere that you should not look to other people for a 'yay' or 'nay' on buying games. Can't remember for the life of me what episode. He will take the piss out of it no matter what. He's a cynic

It's what he does.

I'm fairly certain (without going back and watching it to make sure) that it was the SSBB hate mail episode. Something along the lines of "If you personally enjoy the game then what other people say shouldn't matter." Sound advice, all things concerned.

 

[Netrigan]

Considering how much Yahtzee enjoyed SR2, I think the odds are good he'll enjoy SR3. While they've removed various bits and bobs, said bits and bobs really weren't all that fun.

None of the Taxi, Ambulance, and Fire missions were above average; all of which were "go here, do something X times before time runs out, go to the next location for the next level." Of the bunch, the ambulance mission is the only one I've ever bothered to finish and that's only because it was dead simple. While it might be fun to do something with said vehicles, there's really not much point in keeping around a handful of below-average activities.

Races are gone, but, again, there's not really all that much there. It was a pretty bare-bones racing mode with only the aircraft races providing a challenge... due to really clunky flight controls.

Customization is more limited, but there's a lot more quality outfits. Spinners for my rims is about the only lost option I miss.

General mayhem is much improved. In the first two games, it was easy enough to snag good police vehicles by picking a fight next to the drive-through confessional. The third installment ramps up the challenge as your wanted level goes up. No longer can you hop in a Bear and completely dominate the police and gangs until boredom sets in, simply calling in a second Bear when the first one starts taking damage. The tank replicates the first part of that experience, but once it's gone, your rampage is over since it takes a while for the tank to be available again.

I'm also liking that the mission levels are proper single player levels and not just missions inside the sandbox. There's all sorts of random fun to be had in a sandbox, but there's something to be said for a well-scripted experience. SR3 seems the best of both worlds.

I also find the revamp of the Respect System to be better. I didn't really rankle at being forced to do activities in the first two games, since said activities were lots of fn and there were some great bonuses to be had for completing them... but it was silly that you could control half the city and have to cover buildings in shit to continue the game. The level-up system works just as well and makes more sense.

Mostly, I'm just having a blast. The game seems to be ridding itself of being a fun GTA clone and is focusing on what it brings to the table instead of trying to be a jack-of-all-trades and offering up the standard Rockstar style activities.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

And even if he did tear it up, that's what he does, even if he loves a game he'll find a nit to magnify, pick and rant about. That's what makes it entertaining.

He'll do that especially when he loves or finds a game entertaining, that's something I think a lot of folks may be missing here. Because, and I can't remember which video he specifically mentioned it in (might've been an Extra Punctuation article), flaws become all the more glaring and makes one wonder how those flaws got past the developers and QA in an otherwise good product. I have to agree with a lot of people here with the feeling Yahtzee will bottom line it as "good game, not getting out of here without a thumbs-up, but doesn't live up to its predecessor".

My opinion: SRTT is a fantastic game and I enjoyed every second of the single player*, and on its own it's a wonderful game. Though, I do have to echo a lot of the sentiment that it doesn't have quite the same magic as SR2 from the nonlinear approach to taking out gangs**, quite the ability to customize a character (at least as far as fashion and more extreme body type and appearance is concerned), and that perfect mix of dark and whacky comedy in the middle of an otherwise extremely grim game. The game's not without some flaws that are made very glaring in light of it being an otherwise great product, the hype surrounding the game, and having some very large shoes to fill by being the successor to SR2.

Now, the one thing I fully expect Yahtzee to rail full-on about is the DLC onslaught for the game, and I will fault him not in the least for it. Considering the game's overall quality, but having those flaws (particularly the first flaw I pointed out specifically, which bleeds over a great deal into the second) using it as a DLC vehicle is something of a slap in the face to the players.

*

Spoiler

Except for the fact about a third of the campaign's missions are introductory levels to diversions and tutorials. That irked me, especially in the light the campaign itself is already extremely short but sweet, with the last act losing a lot of cohesion. It honestly felt like Volition had a great deal more planned for the game's third act but was forced to cut content to make deadlines, keeping a handful of missions necessary to build a minimally cohesive storyline and conclusion.

**

Spoiler

Thematically, it makes sense. In SR1 is the three gangs were at war with each other...that's what caused the game's plot to begin with. Yet, once the game got started the war between those three took a back seat to the Saints taking them on and out one by one.

In SR2, the sense you get is the three gangs didn't make the mistake their predecessors did -- if they had conflicts with one another, that ended when the Saints showed back up. Or Ultor was playing them against each other to keep the balance of power. Or maybe they just found their own balance. However it worked out, there was a balance of power the Saints disrupted, and while the gangs didn't interact with one another they weren't exactly going out of their way to help rival gangs. You'll note in game mechanics, gang notoriety didn't transfer from one gang's turf -- or one gang -- to another.

In SR3, the gangs are a part of a larger group, actively work together to further their own interests and synergize with each other. There's no balance of power, since each gang has their own niche and turf, and integrated with the others. It's actually kind of fallacious to even say there are three gangs in Steelport -- there's one gang with different "divisions" so to speak. You'll note in game mechanics, there is no gang notoriety, just Syndicate notoriety, and that transfers between turfs and gangs; piss off the Deckers, and you just leap into the fire from the frying pan by trying to escape into Luchadore turf.

Thematically and storyline-wise, that integrates with gameplay in SR1/2 by having individual storylines that develop each gang, and the escalating conflict with each gang, until the climax in which you take out the leader. In SR3 -- and spoilers ahead, so consider yourself forewarned -- you're not really up against three disparate gangs, you're against the Syndicate and you take out its leader early on. The escalation from there is what triggers the later story developments.

It wouldn't have made a whole lot of sense to have the "three different storylines" structure in that regard, since the three gangs aren't separate. Sure, you could make a good argument in favor of that structure by saying "Loren gets killed early on, and the boss plays divide and conquer in the power vacuum". Except, the power vacuum gets filled immediately by Killbane, since neither Viola nor Miller are willing to challenge him; Kiki was the only one, and you see what happens to her. Either way, given what I mentioned earlier -- you're not up against three different gangs, you're up against the Syndicate -- that really leaves what the game does, which is poke around for weaknesses and make attacks of opportunity in the lack of the Boss's ability to wage all-out gang warfare. By the time the Syndicate is fractured enough to move into the "three different gang" thing thematically, STAG shows up.

That's why, in my opinion, SR3 is much more "linear" than its predecessor. It just wouldn't make much sense, thematically. That doesn't absolve a third of the game's missions being tutorials and introductory activity levels, Syndicate missions being just as numerous as a single gang in SR1/2 alone, roughly ten STAG missions and a handful of more or less vanity/novelty missions. Really fleshing out the conflict with the Syndicate to SR2 levels of story development would have required at least 30 missions on its own, and the STAG arc would require another twenty, at least in my opinion. But, that's pushing it given the thematic elements I mentioned earlier.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

I'm really getting tired of people saying 'Yahtzee is just a comedian, he doesn't actually mean what he says, it's pure comedy!' No, it's fucking not. Come on. Yahtzee looks for things to complain about, but they aren't manufactured bullshit for giggles, they're genuine issues.

 

[42]

well this is where one is making assumptions. the word Assume makes an ass out of u and me. <<< clever huh?

in all seriousness we should all wait until the review comes out instead of assuming what his opinion is going to be. who knows? maybe he likes the story unlock thing. we'll find out in 2 weeks.

 

[brunothepig]

Spoiler: snip

If anyone actually listened to Yahtzee's opinions, no one would play anything except for Silent Hill 2 over and over again.

...or the four Prince of Persia games.

...or Portal 1&2.

...or Call of Duty: Modern Warfare.

...or Silent Hill 3&4.

...or Batman: Arkham Asylum.

...or Super Mario Galaxy.

...or Resistance 3.

...or Driver: San Francisco.

Do you actually watch his reviews, or do you just complain anyway?

You forgot a few
Shadow of the Colossus
Killer 7
Half Life
Infamous
Serious Sam
Painkiller
Red Dead Redemption
Just Cause 2
Dead Rising 2
Minecraft
Amnesia
Limbo
Assassins Creed
Psychonauts
Bioshock

Lets not forget,
Uncharted 1/2/3
Deus Ex 1 & HR
Binding Of Isaac
Shadows Of The Damned
God Of War
Fallout 3
And whatever I've forgotten, I can't be bothered sifting through his entire series.

OT: There isn't one. You've not said what you felt made SR2 so fun, or what it is SR3 removed to make it worse. What reason is there for me to believe you? Explain your damn opinion, then we can talk.