Yahtzee vs. the JRPG

[RJ Dalton]

FFVI and Crono Trigger. The two JRPGs that remind me why I used to like JRPGs to begin with. Haven't played Earthbound, though. I do have it from trusted friends that the game is awesome, though, so I'll count this in your favor.

 

[Sylocat]

The reason Mother 3 never got an official release in the west is because Earthbound fans are all talk. And Yahtzee knows this as well as anyone.

 

[Sylocat]

Okay, this whole affair started off humorous, watching fanbies on both sides of this religious crusade sling mud at each other. However, now it's just gotten stupid, in my opinion. To both sides, I can only say grow-up and get over it. It's just a game; everyone's tastes are different. Not everyone has to like the things you like, and not everyone has to not like the things you don't like. This much energy and effort to validate one's personal preferences is just ludicrous. Happiness comes from within, not from without.

Also, I'm going to say this: contrary to Yahtzee's "divine dictum", I did PLAY the game, and I did ENJOY the game(this is because Yahtzee's opinions have no bearing on my own choices and preferences). There are some who feel the same, and there are some who feel quite differently. This is allowed to occur because it is a game, and people are different with different tastes.

This entire fight just needs to end, and people need to just get on with playing games they enjoy(be that FF13 or otherwise). Don't let one incendiary curmudgeon ruin life for you.

(I still like his ZP, though.)

EDIT: Just want to clarify something on my last statement. I look upon the persona Yahtzee as being different from the person Ben Croshaw. I don't know Mr. Croshaw; I'm only familiar with a character he portrays in ZP.

This, this, this, a thousand times this.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Wow, people on both sides have gotten really bent out of shape by this FF13 review. Personally I'm burnt out on JRPGs. I knew this had happened when I saw Lost Odyssey for £8 and still didn't buy it. I think its because I've been playing RPGs since the late 80s. I still remember playing Lords of midnight and Druid the enlightenment.

I feel like the golden age of JRPGs was 16bit, There were a few PSX/PS2/Game Cube games I liked but they didnt have the charm of those 16 bit games. I'm not going to play FF13, my life has changes and I don't want to spned 20 hours bored to get to the good stuff. I have a family. I also find it patronising that the developer feels I wont "get" the battle system without someone to wipe my nose and do it for me.

When did people assume that "Role Playing Game" meant "You, Mr./Ms. player, are the hero." To me it always meant you were playing the "role" of a character in a predetermined story, as if you were playing the part of the character in a play, but a play that you were also watching at the same time.

It's official, Gears of War is an RPG...

The only bias here is that against Japanese games, that some western gamers (and wannabe journalists that turn into stereotype-mongers) seem to have. It's always sad that diversity tends to cause that much fear and hatred.

That is a fair point, there is also bias against western games in Japan. Bias is part of being human. You were right Abriael when you said that you a much better feel for culture by living else where. I'd advise everyone to do it at some point. I moved to Texas and have a much better understanding of the area than most none Americans. That doesn't make other peoples opinion invalid, although it may be misinformed.

OT as a reviewer you should play more than 5 hours, even if a game is wank. As a layperson 5 hours is too long and would be enough for me to shelve it or trade it in.

I am burnt out on JPGs have been since the late 90s or early 00s as most new 3d titles were smaller more compact and just had less lee well polished designs........ tho IMO this is true today for just about EVERYTHING in gaming these days......

 

[King Kupofried]

I don't usually like to entirely rule out the "after x hours it becomes better" argument, but it usually applies to something that is kinda average at first and becomes much better later. What exactly do you think make Final Fantasy 13 better after 20 hours? Summons? More Jobs to choose from? It's not like the story suddenly became wonderful, or the characters suddenly developed more than their puddle of personality. Maybe having more paradigm set-ups gives you more control over the battle flow but if they just let you actually control your other characters that wouldn't be an issue. The only thing I could think of is the Cutscene with Shaz in the chocobo cave, which was incredibly adorable..and well to be fair actually is the sort of thing I'd play a game for 20 hours just to see.

 

[Abriael]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

100 hours? FF13 is only 40 hours long and most of that is grueling

It's 40 hours if you whine about it being linear and then PURPOSEDLY play it linear

Chapter 11 can easily be over 60 hours long, depending on how you play it, if you do all the missions, hunt all the monsters, look for all the components to get your ultimate weapons and so forth.
FFXIII is 2 games in one, basically. You can chose to play one, and whine it's linear and shallow, or you can play both, and you'll have an extremely rich and deep game.

 

[llamaquest101]

Just to be sure before i preorder your book, Mogworld does have punctuation doesn't it? Otherwise that would annoy me.

 

[Paulrus_Keaton]

I was hoping he would list Skies of Arcadia: Legends. Honestly, I couldn't tell you why I enjoyed that game; hoped some Yahtzee insight could give me a hint.

 

[GoWithDAFro]

Isn´t "Beat it to the rush to give me money" simpsons joke?

I imagine Yahtzee rather enjoys the Simpsons. They have the same favorite color

 

[ResiEvalJohn]

I agree with Yatzee. FF XIII sucked; there were no zombies in mansions with herbs and shotgun shells. What a terrible idea for a game. Who want's to kill a non-zombie enemy pressing the same buttons over and over again and walking in a straight path anyway?

 

[Brad Shepard]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

 

[Rafe]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

Ah great! I was looking for a comment that wasn't Final Fantasy bashing so I wouldn't be commenting alone against the FF hate. I agree with you completely; I have never played a game that has left me nearly as satisfied as completing a final Fantasy title. It is a certain feel to the story.

 

[Brad Shepard]

Look, theres nothing wrong with JRPGs, i for one love them, if you cant tell by my avatar.

They have a certen feel to them, its not all about gameplay, its about story, and if ive learned anything about final fantasy, its they have story (10 2 doesent count, it will never count.) and anyone who says that all final fantasys are the same, you are wrong in so many ways, give me 2 final fantasy that are the same in a way besides combat, then i will shut up.

Ah great! I was looking for a comment that wasn't Final Fantasy bashing so I wouldn't be commenting alone against the FF hate. I agree with you completely; I have never played a game that has left me nearly as satisfied as completing a final Fantasy title. It is a certain feel to the story.

I half expected the first post someone quoted me on this to be bashing, thanks , 9 had the best story in my view, just frecking awesome!

 

[dead_rebel]

How do you feel about Final Fantasy Tactics Yahtzee? Maybe that's your kind of JRPG.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

Are you done putting words in my mouth? All I said was that I didn't have the patience to play something which took 20, or even 5 hours to become fun, and when I say fun I mean by my standards. I don't have any problem with games being linear, many of my favourite games are linear; I don't like to bash Japanese games, it's just a different culture, that's all.

Also, would you like to point out just where exactly the press has been bashing FFXIII? From my research it has a metacritic score of 85%. Since objectively the rest of the world is in your camp in agreeing that the game is good, why are you wasting your time on here trying to convince what must be a few nay-sayers? I'm starting to wonder if someone has a tiny bit of a persecution complex.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

you better try out on NDS, Advance wars days of ruin...

 

[DaMan1500]

I stopped playing FF7 at the point where a black hole sucked me into a parallel dimension and forced me to fight some sort of missle-firing shed that blew me up while I helplessly mashed the "kill the fucking shed" option in the combat menu. I'm glad that someone out there shares my pain.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Of course Yahtzee does tend to bait fans by saying hyperbolic things like "if you like it then you are provably wrong", hence some of the rage is brought upon himself, but he makes some fairly valid criticisms. Above all, the fact that you have to play the game for twenty hours before it gets good.

First of all, that's not a point he has the basis to make, because he played just 5 hours. That's not a review, That's hearsay.

Also, "you have to play 20 hours before it gets good" is an opinion, not a "valid point", and that's an opinion based on the possibility of the generic "you" to dislike linear gameplay.
Personally, the game got "good" as soon as I saw the first scenes, I don't mind linear gameplay, and I don't think that freedom of exploration is an indispensible trait of a quality game. If it was, my options to find good games would be radically narrowed.
There are plenty critically acclaimed games that are a whole X hours long on-rail adventure. Final Fantasy XIII won't be the first, nor the last, but lots of people seem to feel personally slighted by the fact it's linear. It's funny to see how the same people aren't as offended by other games that are equally straightforward.

Personally, I find that a big part of that disparity in judgement, expecially from the press, comes from the fact that Final Fantasy XIII is a Japanese game, and it's become "hip" to bash Japanese games. No matter the quality.

The fun part is that when we receive a JRPG that truly innovates the genre in many ways (White Knight Chronicles), they will find other excuses to bash it (and I did see reviews criticizing it for being too "confusing" in the explorative part. Damn you, you want linear or free exploration?).

100 hours? FF13 is only 40 hours long and most of that is grueling

It's 40 hours if you whine about it being linear and then PURPOSEDLY play it linear

Chapter 11 can easily be over 60 hours long, depending on how you play it, if you do all the missions, hunt all the monsters, look for all the components to get your ultimate weapons and so forth.
FFXIII is 2 games in one, basically. You can chose to play one, and whine it's linear and shallow, or you can play both, and you'll have an extremely rich and deep game.

Ah filler...... it didnt make FFX any better... and guess what..... its still a heavily linear game it just has a longer corridors than most....

 

[LawyerScumGhost]

The enjoyment of video games is subjective. That means every person will enjoy them in their own unique way. It is impossible to categorize something like a video game by your own feelings, because everyone will experience it differently. No one is stupid because they like or dislike a certain game. I loved FF VII, I really like FF XIII. THEY ARE JUST GAMES. If you don't like them, don't play them. It is wrong to look down on others just because they like different things than you.

 

[PeterDawson]

Alrighty, I can see why he would argue that there's no gameplay in XIII, but that's just not true. I'm not claiming that I'm a master of water while sitting in a river, I'm just claiming I'm having a good time. And really, when you've spent only five hours playing the game, and as it has been said many times the first part of the game is sadly the worst which is why it'll never be on a 'best game ever' list except one compiled by twats, that's no reason to condemn the whole damn game.

Anyhow, stupid fanboy ranting aside, I will add that Chrono Trigger did have an excellent narrative with well-crafted combat, the group techs being a great addition.