Your video game hot take(s) thread

BrawlMan

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I've never got the argument of "too many characters."
Hypocritical fandom is all it is. Movie Bob was the most vocal about it in his early days, yet kept his trap shut most of the time if it involved things Mario. IGN and Gamespot too. Nearly every "professional" journalist.

That said, with Boom, I don't know if Amy's back to her 'original self' per se, because if anything, I think Boom!Amy is the best version of the character the franchise has had. Still has a crush on Sonic, but it isn't the be all and end all of her character. Yeah, the games did a bit with Amy in SA1, but by Heroes, she's back to chasing Sonic across the world demanding matrimony.
Exactly. By original self, I mean her more nicer and subtle moments. Her crush was not her only defining characteristics. I blame Sonic Heroes and Sonic X in its later season are known for exaggerating Amy's more negative traits. Unleashed actually dialed it way back thankfully. So it starts there in Sega at least fixing some things.

As for Boom!Knuckles, not fond of him, but I'm left in a chicken or egg scenario, because Segaverse!Knuckles isn't much better these days. Tempting as it is to blame Boom for it, I'd argue the rot for Knuckles arguably set in as soon as Generations, if not Lost World, where he became comic relief, and by Forces...ugh.
Yeah, Knuckles got a raw deal even before Boom. Once again, you can blame Sonic X for that. The only difference being a case of just extra gullible and the complainer is always wrong. Even when the complainer brings up great points. It only got worse starting with Sonic Heroes. Knuckles was at his most dignified in SA2 and the Archie comics. At least Boom!Knuckles has this:


What Boom does or doesn't do isn't too important to me, because I'm open to different settings having different takes. I mean, that's been par for the course for day 1 - AoSTH Robotnik and SatAM Robotnik can exist side by side in the wider franchise for instance.
Agreed.


I wouldn't call Battleborn an AFPS. It's more a hero shooter/MOBA hybrid.
I am taking what I can think of that's current. Plus, it's got plenty of action, even if it's a different type. Granted, there is no action now so......
 
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Hawki

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Exactly. By original self, I mean her more nicer and subtle moments. Her crush was not her only defining characteristics. I blame Sonic Heroes and Sonic X in its later season are known for exaggerating Amy's more negative traits. Unleashed actually dialed it way back thankfully. So it starts there in Sega at least fixing some things.
Yeah, but those moments only really came after her introduction.

Amy in Sonic CD is more or less to Sonic what Peach was (and still is) to Mario - a damsel to be saved. SA1 gives her an arc of sorts, SA2 more or less levies her off, and then Heroes...gah. I mean, yeah, you've got solid ground in blaming Heroes, but Amy's fangirling was cooked in from day 1. Which, IMO, is why you got stuff like the Archie comics shunting her to the side until at least around the time it adapted SA1, or the Fleetway comics making Amy a tomgirl to the extent that she didn't resemble her game counterpart at all. Hence why Boom!Amy is a happy medium for me.

Also, I don't recall Amy being particuarly obnoxious in season 3 of Sonic X. If anything, she seemed a bit more mellow. It's the earlier seasons that have burned "SONIKUUU!" into my brain. <_>

Yeah, Knuckles got a raw deal even before Boom. Once again, you can blame Sonic X for that. The only difference being a case of just extra gullible and the complainer is always wrong. Even when the complainer brings up great points. It only got worse starting with Sonic Heroes. Knuckles was at his most dignified in SA2 and the Archie comics.
I don't recall Knuckles being particuarly bad in Sonic X. I mean, yeah, he's tricked by Eggman (twice), but there's no direct evidence in the series that Eggman has tricked him before. As for Heroes, there's certainly an argument to be made that that was the beginning of the end for him, but he at least wasn't relegated to comic relief ala Generations/Lost World.

Edit: Also, if you want to see Knuckles with dignity again, read the IDW comics.

Actually, scratch that, read the IDW comics, period. I'm not the first person to say this, but Flynn definitely 'gets' the characters, and Sega needs to put him in charge of writing for the games.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Yeah the first time I can recall thinking "ok come on, am I playing the bad guy at this point?' was in GoW2, when you are...I forget what you were unlocking, but it was some ritual thingy, and a person had to read the ritual words from the book, and then give an offering of blood. And he's forcibly making the priests read the text, and then brains them to death to fuel the ritual with their blood. I had far less empathy for Kratos by that point in GoW2, but was still kind of on the "ok so maybe they will have him stop being a shitheel by the end, and see the error of his ways....oh..no...well ok then." Then GoW3 came out, and while I defend that it's got the most epic (literally) tutorial ever made in a fucking game, ending with you killing the god of the seas, his complete blind goal to just destroy everything in front of him because "waaah, they made me hurt myself, and then hurt me! so I'm justified in literally destroying my entire world, killing millions" That was just, yeah too far. I felt physically ill near the end, where I'm being forced to do some horrible things, all under the guise of revenge. Which, is just not a good motivating factor for me personally. Maybe it's because I'm not a hormonal teen boy anymore, but even then I wasn't a huge fan of violence, or harming others to make myself feel better.
Honestly, to me that moment came as soon as Kratos screamed to a horse 'You defy the God of War!' with totaly sincerity. That's when his character went from mostly genuine to completely juvenile.

And yeah, GoW3 is when things just went off the rails. It's not even that you can't tell almost this same story without meaning, because there have been plenty of stories about horrible people doing horrible things that were fantastic. Just look at American Psycho (the movie, I never read the book). But when you frame a slave girl getting crushed by your hand as a 'Fuck yeah, awesome' moment for the player, that's not the way to do it.

I replay the GoW games usually once a year, and I'm never able to make it through 3. I always quite around the time where you beat Kronos. By that point I've just had my fill of indulgent awfulness.

So I like that they addressed a lot of that in GoW4. They didn't really try and excuse it, but I mean, it's always a problem with the idea of people who do wrong to others. If we accept the idea that they actually have the capacity to change, to realize the path they were on is wrong, and then they actively try and not live like they did, well, I mean what can you say? Kratos never asks for forgiveness for what he did, he never denies that he was a horrible person then. That doesn't mean he is horrible in every capacity of his life. It doesn't mean he can't become better, and try and make up for the harm he's done. He doesn't look for redemption, he looks for trying to make sure his son does not fall into the same trap that he and his family did. And honestly, I'm fine with that as a motivating force for playing someone like Kratos again. It's about the only way I was going to enjoy playing it, after how the end of GoW3 left a genocidal taste in my mouth. I REALLY hated the end of that game. I'm glad they took the new game in a different direction, while still acknowledging where Kratos came from.
It also lurks underneath his relationship with his son like this monster under the bed. In many interactions with Atreus you can just feel Kratos being scared to death of his son finding out about the evil shit he'd been up to in his old life. About the fact that he once had a wife and kid, and HE killed them, while he and Atreus are now carrying Atreus' mother's ashes. In all these games it's the first time we ever see Kratos fearful, and it's because of a little boy knowing the truth.
 

Gordon_4

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Honestly, to me that moment came as soon as Kratos screamed to a horse 'You defy the God of War!' with totaly sincerity. That's when his character went from mostly genuine to completely juvenile.

And yeah, GoW3 is when things just went off the rails. It's not even that you can't tell almost this same story without meaning, because there have been plenty of stories about horrible people doing horrible things that were fantastic. Just look at American Psycho (the movie, I never read the book). But when you frame a slave girl getting crushed by your hand as a 'Fuck yeah, awesome' moment for the player, that's not the way to do it.

I replay the GoW games usually once a year, and I'm never able to make it through 3. I always quite around the time where you beat Kronos. By that point I've just had my fill of indulgent awfulness.

It also lurks underneath his relationship with his son like this monster under the bed. In many interactions with Atreus you can just feel Kratos being scared to death of his son finding out about the evil shit he'd been up to in his old life. About the fact that he once had a wife and kid, and HE killed them, while he and Atreus are now carrying Atreus' mother's ashes. In all these games it's the first time we ever see Kratos fearful, and it's because of a little boy knowing the truth.
I just can't stand Kratos on a conceptual level. On mechanical and visually artistic levels all of the games (or what little I see of them) have been superb but I just find Kratos himself repellent and not in a compelling way.
 

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I just can't stand Kratos on a conceptual level. On mechanical and visually artistic levels all of the games (or what little I see of them) have been superb but I just find Kratos himself repellent and not in a compelling way.
I can understand that. Even developers over at Santa Monica really had to be convinced by Cory Barlog to bring Kratos back for GoW '18, because they just did not want to work with this character anymore - they were just that sick of his whole shtick.
 

BrawlMan

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Also, I don't recall Amy being particuarly obnoxious in season 3 of Sonic X. If anything, she seemed a bit more mellow. It's the earlier seasons that have burned "SONIKUUU!" into my brain. <_>
Season 3 dialed it back. That is why I said Season 2.

I don't recall Knuckles being particuarly bad in Sonic X. I mean, yeah, he's tricked by Eggman (twice), but there's no direct evidence in the series that Eggman has tricked him before. As for Heroes, there's certainly an argument to be made that that was the beginning of the end for him, but he at least wasn't relegated to comic relief ala Generations/Lost World.
Note how said gulible and not dumber. Also, in Season 3, were meant to laugh at (or see him in the wrong) Knux in an episode for being foolish or commander contranian despite the fact he was not all that wrong and you understand where he's coming from. Depending on version, it comes off a lot nastier and unfunny in the Japanese dub. The 4Kids dub actually tried to soften the blow. It's been too long, but I reccomend just checking the Tv Tropes YMMV Sonic X page. Sonic X is where it really starts or exaggerates things to make it like Sonic or friends are always right or know better.

Edit: Also, if you want to see Knuckles with dignity again, read the IDW comics.

Actually, scratch that, read the IDW comics, period. I'm not the first person to say this, but Flynn definitely 'gets' the characters, and Sega needs to put him in charge of writing for the games.
I'll keep that in mind.
 

hanselthecaretaker

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Honestly, to me that moment came as soon as Kratos screamed to a horse 'You defy the God of War!' with totaly sincerity. That's when his character went from mostly genuine to completely juvenile.

And yeah, GoW3 is when things just went off the rails. It's not even that you can't tell almost this same story without meaning, because there have been plenty of stories about horrible people doing horrible things that were fantastic. Just look at American Psycho (the movie, I never read the book). But when you frame a slave girl getting crushed by your hand as a 'Fuck yeah, awesome' moment for the player, that's not the way to do it.

I replay the GoW games usually once a year, and I'm never able to make it through 3. I always quite around the time where you beat Kronos. By that point I've just had my fill of indulgent awfulness.

It also lurks underneath his relationship with his son like this monster under the bed. In many interactions with Atreus you can just feel Kratos being scared to death of his son finding out about the evil shit he'd been up to in his old life. About the fact that he once had a wife and kid, and HE killed them, while he and Atreus are now carrying Atreus' mother's ashes. In all these games it's the first time we ever see Kratos fearful, and it's because of a little boy knowing the truth.
To me, I never took the character seriously until the new game, because most if not all game characters back then were more juvenile caricatures than anything. Like Saturday morning cartoons. I guess that’s why it never bothered me how he turned out, since I was conditioned to never become emotionally invested in that kind of writing or presentation. It was just “there”.

I did long for it though in the back of my mind (turning Kratos into an empathetic character with relatable depth that could be taken seriously by any standards), even if it felt like a long shot. So that to me was the new game’s biggest achievement in actually pulling off what felt like an impossibility.

The classic pre-FFX style and other similar rpgs of the time were also different though back in the day. They felt more like silent graphic novels enhanced by often brilliant scores. That to me was far more emotionally effective than anything from those early stages of cringey videogame voice acting and Hollywood-aping realism.
 
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happyninja42

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To me, I never took the character seriously until the new game, because most if not all game characters back then were more juvenile caricatures than anything. Like Saturday morning cartoons. I guess that’s why it never bothered me how he turned out, since I was conditioned to never become emotionally invested in that kind of writing or presentation.
Yes the early GoW games were very juvenile in their narrative strokes, and depiction of Kratos. He was a very barebones video game protagonist. Just there to facilitate a fun combat mechanic they had developed. They went for a literal greek tragedy, as those are often very broadly written, with easy to define characters and motivations, and you can make for some really awesome set pieces with the mythology. I think the issue they ran into, was they painted themselves into a corner with his motivation and caricature when they made the other games, without maybe thinking the game would blow up like it did. So then they had to try and course correct mid-story, which wasn't great. Plus, given the timeframe, I think they just didn't care as much about how Kratos was written. They were just making a fun game, and were a young team. But you know, time changes us, life changes us. Different events can make us look back at how we were before and be like "eeeehhh....wow, I was a fucking douchebag back then" I mean Steven Spielberg has gone on record saying that after having a family of his own, he wouldn't have done the ending to Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind, the way he did.

So I don't really have a problem with the idea that Kratos, like the team that developed him, were young, hot headed, kind of oblivious to the grander impact of their actions over time, and how it would be represented. And, years later, with hindsight and retrospection, realize "ok yeah, that was a really bad thing we did, and it really doesn't hold up long term. So what do we do now?" Thus, GoW4. And frankly, at least for me, that's really the only way they could keep the franchise going, without just moving the protagonist to another, less shady character, like Atreus. Which I'd personally be down for, I fucking LOVE legacy stories, so if this is the start of the swan song for Kratos as the God of War poster boy, I embrace it. Not just because "he used to be a homicidal douchebag" *though that is a key part*, but because all stories should end, and legacy, is a powerful component of storytelling, especially in actual mythology tales.

But for now, since the series is still focused on Kratos, having the setup be an acknowledgement of his shitty, hotheaded, homicidal path, and thus acknowledge the flaws of the dev team from that time. But letting him try and be something more than just a mindless killer, fueled by rage at all times, yeah, I can handle that.
 

happyninja42

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SOMA's post-credits ending makes it a weaker story.
I haven't played it but I have watched a let's play, so I don't recall which one was the post credit one?

Was that the one where the POV returns to the you in the chair, that didn't upload to the satellite, and you slowly die in the darkness of the ocean? And thus showed how terrifying and grim that concept of identity could be if you fell onto the bad side of that 50/50 chance?
 
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CaitSeith

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I haven't played it but I have watched a let's play, so I don't recall which one was the post credit one?

Was that the one where the POV returns to the you in the chair, that didn't upload to the satellite, and you slowly die in the darkness of the ocean? And thus showed how terrifying and grim that concept of identity could be if you fell onto the bad side of that 50/50 chance?
No. After the credits, it puts you inside the ARK and let's you meet up with Catherine, finishing the story in the optimistic side of the 50/50 as the satellite safely orbits the ruined Earth.

For a horror story, that's a cop-out.
 

happyninja42

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No. After the credits, it puts you inside the ARK and let's you meet up with Catherine, finishing the story in the optimistic side of the 50/50 as the satellite safely orbits the ruined Earth.
ah, yeah well i guess they felt that a downer ending wasn't enjoyable for most people. It would've been more disturbing to switch it around I think. As far as which was post credit and which wasn't.
 

CaitSeith

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ah, yeah well i guess they felt that a downer ending wasn't enjoyable for most people. It would've been more disturbing to switch it around I think. As far as which was post credit and which wasn't.
Maybe switching it around would had been better. The POV character has been the "lucky one" in every coin toss, the one who gets to continue the mission, always torn inside by the implication of those who loss the coin toss. The player getting to be the inside the ARK, and later be put back on Earth where Simon berates would had been more poignant; because the surviving Simon isn't aware of his other self has just been left behind, but the player now does.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Kingdom Come: Deliverance is the best thing that’s ever been done with Cryengine. (Sorry, Star Citizen; the game was actually released)

If one takes the time to learn its systems, it is one of the most deeply rewarding games I’ve played. I haven’t finished it yet due to other backlog items (especially The Witcher 3), but watching some videos makes me want to get back into it along with the dlc. About the most annoying thing I’ve encountered is the unnecessarily convoluted save system, but that’s been made better through patches. I rarely lost progress due to lack of opportunities to save, between the places to rest, consumables, or story checkpoints. I think the intent was to prevent save scumming, but it’s simply a quality of life thing that can’t really be overstated.

 

BrawlMan

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Hey @Hawki, you can add Pat from Super Castle Beast (former Two Best Friends) to add to list of a loud opinionated guy on the web that says Sonic has only a few good games, and the rest are trash. I like you Pat, but you're wrong and just like the others in this regard.

I have the video time stamped already.

 

Hawki

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Hey @Hawki, you can add Pat from Super Castle Beast (former Two Best Friends) to add to list of a loud opinionated guy on the web that says Sonic has only a few good games, and the rest are trash. I like you Pat, but you're wrong and just like the others in this regard.
I'm not overly concerned with what other people think. People are free to dislike Sonic all they want. And while I'd like to think it's dislike that's genuine, even then, it isn't the only IP that has this. For instance, it's popular to hate on Call of Duty, but how many people have played them? I'm not even immune to this myself.

That said, IMO, there's more than four good Sonic games. In personal experience, there's about 11-12 good ones, about 16 average ones, and a handful of genuinely bad ones. That isn't the best track record in the world, and the series has definitely had quality control issues at times, but I disagree with any notion of "it was never good."
 

BrawlMan

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I'm not overly concerned with what other people think. People are free to dislike Sonic all they want. And while I'd like to think it's dislike that's genuine, even then, it isn't the only IP that has this. For instance, it's popular to hate on Call of Duty, but how many people have played them? I'm not even immune to this myself.
Same here, just thought I point it out. I know not all COD games are terrible, but I find a majority of them boring, mediocre, uninteresting, and limited in gameplay.

That said, IMO, there's more than four good Sonic games. In personal experience, there's about 11-12 good ones, about 16 average ones, and a handful of genuinely bad ones. That isn't the best track record in the world, and the series has definitely had quality control issues at times, but I disagree with any notion of "it was never good."
That's kinda my problem with Pat. It's well known he grew up as a Sega kid. I know not every Sega kid liked Sonic, but that's not the problem. It's his whole there are only 5 good Sonic games stance where will call him out on. Wow, you got Sonic 3D Blast for Christmas. Not the worst game you get on the holiday in 1996. I grew up on Sega as well, but I had Nintendo consoles too (though we never got a SNES). I 100% agree with you on the quality control issue, no lie there.
 
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Dalisclock

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Kingdom Come: Deliverance is the best thing that’s ever been done with Cryengine. (Sorry, Star Citizen; the game was actually released)
Star Citizen will have words with you.....in 2077, when it actually reaches Beta.

It will be realisitically emulating 9 billion NPCS and the entire known universe. You'll still drop through the floor of your $20K ship completely at random.

OT, KC: Deliverance is in my library and I've heard it's interesting in the Simulator aspect(and apparently some of the more annoying QoL aspects have been patched). I look forward to taking a look at it someday when I'm in the proper headspace for it.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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Star Citizen will have words with you.....in 2077, when it actually reaches Beta.

It will be realisitically emulating 9 billion NPCS and the entire known universe. You'll still drop through the floor of your $20K ship completely at random.

OT, KC: Deliverance is in my library and I've heard it's interesting in the Simulator aspect(and apparently some of the more annoying QoL aspects have been patched). I look forward to taking a look at it someday when I'm in the proper headspace for it.
I only have experience with the PC version, if that’s what you’re on with it. It’s a commendable first effort - especially for a Kickstarter project - but some rough edges still remain for sure. Nothing like Cyberpunk thankfully, but it’s a caveat to keep in mind. The biggest thing is that saving has been patched to a less frustrating state.

Having said that, one you get into the slow burn mindset for it (kinda like a Red Dead 2), there’s little else like it. The systems are more deliberate, but in a more significant sense in terms of mechanics. IE simple things like movement and item procurement are snappier, but then you have things like maintaining weapons as a hands-on mini game, and alchemy is a fully methodical exercise.

You can also tell the studio is big on Bohemian history of the early 15th century, because its packed to the gills in that regard.
 
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Maybe switching it around would had been better. The POV character has been the "lucky one" in every coin toss, the one who gets to continue the mission, always torn inside by the implication of those who loss the coin toss. The player getting to be the inside the ARK, and later be put back on Earth where Simon berates would had been more poignant; because the surviving Simon isn't aware of his other self has just been left behind, but the player now does.
I don't think you or the main character actually understood SOMA.

There is no coin flip. When the main character's consciousness is transferred into another body it's always just a copy. Both consciousness think that they're the original one every time, and in all cases both bodies have the same consciousness. What happens at the end of the game happened every time the main character transferred bodies, this is just the only time where you get to see both outcomes.
 
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