Agreed.Macgyvercas said:
Changing him to being right-handed was a kick in the balls.
And giving him a voice would ruin it, especially if they messed it up.
Zelda Skyward Sword Producer: Link Shouldn't Talk
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Changing him to being right-handed was a kick in the balls.
And giving him a voice would ruin it, especially if they messed it up.
The silent protagonist is generally more enduring, it is a fact. We can't hate someone who doesn't constantly self-monologue.
Pointless debate, I know, but I'll throw some words in.
It's likely been said, but Nintendo has money. Lot's of money, especially for a staple series like Zelda. Also, they are careful, they wouldn't do anything to ruin the image of the game intentionally. Save for those slip ups in the non game media, they have done well on this.
I see no reason they would ever end up with THAT again. They would likely get a respectable voice done by a good actor. One that may surprise a few people but could generally be agreed on as what Link would sound like based on the quasi-voice we HAVE heard.
So don't worry about Nintendo sneaking out in the black of night with cloaks, tomes, and candles to raise unholy fiends from deep earth to speak with vile tongues and corrupt today's youth.
That said, I'm fine with either direction. I'd like to see it tried and think it's silly to be violently against Nintendo's final say on if it ever comes to pass.
WindWaker is one of the best of the series in my opinion (Just after Majora's Mask of course) and they managed a very expressive convincing Link with a lot of emotion, without any coherent spoken word.
I'm fine if they keep that up.
On the other hand, I trust them enough to hazard the curiosity of hearing Link talk.
Perhaps they should start small, not voice act an entire game at first. Just have him speak more coherently at times.
Perhaps shouting "Zelda" in the climax of the story. Move on to slightly more then eventually I think people would trust them to go all out.
Edit: Vaguely related, I agree with the Right Handed switch being completely uncalled for.
The difference though between voice and preferred hand is adding a characteristic versus changing a characteristic. Adding comes with benefits to some of us changing just alienates.
It's likely been said, but Nintendo has money. Lot's of money, especially for a staple series like Zelda. Also, they are careful, they wouldn't do anything to ruin the image of the game intentionally. Save for those slip ups in the non game media, they have done well on this.
I see no reason they would ever end up with THAT again. They would likely get a respectable voice done by a good actor. One that may surprise a few people but could generally be agreed on as what Link would sound like based on the quasi-voice we HAVE heard.
So don't worry about Nintendo sneaking out in the black of night with cloaks, tomes, and candles to raise unholy fiends from deep earth to speak with vile tongues and corrupt today's youth.
That said, I'm fine with either direction. I'd like to see it tried and think it's silly to be violently against Nintendo's final say on if it ever comes to pass.
WindWaker is one of the best of the series in my opinion (Just after Majora's Mask of course) and they managed a very expressive convincing Link with a lot of emotion, without any coherent spoken word.
I'm fine if they keep that up.
On the other hand, I trust them enough to hazard the curiosity of hearing Link talk.
Perhaps they should start small, not voice act an entire game at first. Just have him speak more coherently at times.
Perhaps shouting "Zelda" in the climax of the story. Move on to slightly more then eventually I think people would trust them to go all out.
Edit: Vaguely related, I agree with the Right Handed switch being completely uncalled for.
The difference though between voice and preferred hand is adding a characteristic versus changing a characteristic. Adding comes with benefits to some of us changing just alienates.
I dunno... I think Nintendo needs to man up and try VA in Zelda, of course only if they can find quality Voice acters for the parts. I find that using the CD-I and tv show as a reason to be a cop-out, those were probably done at minimal cost and effort. Now that not to say I want everyone to be voiced, Im still effy on Link, but have everyone in the game voiced and not Link would be more jarring than bad voice acting. Unless they some how added element to the story to explain Link's mute-ness (like someone said earlier, Link saw both his parents killed before his eyes, becomeing mute; could also be used to allow a different story plot, or even a subplot.)
*Edit*
Oh, and for the love of God, if you give Link a voice, dont use Nolan North!!!
*Edit*
Oh, and for the love of God, if you give Link a voice, dont use Nolan North!!!
Well, that's stupid. This series will never reach the epic storytelling heights that it could if Link stayed silent. I don't want him to be chatty, but saying things like "What do you mean?" or "Are you okay?" shouldn't be too much to ask for. It worked for Jak and Daxter, and it worked for GTA. Link should definitely talk, so that not all conversations are massice one-sided expositions.
I can understand that gripe. I actually played Twilight Princess left handed since it's waggle based anyway so Nintendo could make him left handed again, but the reason why they stuck with the idea was because most people are right handed and it's help get into the character having it on the side most people will use. I'd like the option of choosing which hand it's held in period so I can either go for authenticity or roleplaying. That's one advantage to motion control, it doesn't matter what hand you use.Macgyvercas said:
People forget that a certain other incarnation of Link spoke in Windwaker.
He says "Come on!" and "Hey!" in the Tower of the Gods, Earth Temple, and Wind Temple where you escort the statues, Medli, and Makar respectively.
Yes, it was 3 words total, but no one seems to mind that.
I wouldn't mind if Link occasionally said "Yes" or "No", but I'll admit that if he went onto a big monologue I'd be annoyed.
I say the series should stay to the text boxes, with some sighs from NPCs and grunts from Link. That's how the Metroid Prime games are, Samus only ever "spoke" in grunts when she's damaged.
He says "Come on!" and "Hey!" in the Tower of the Gods, Earth Temple, and Wind Temple where you escort the statues, Medli, and Makar respectively.
Yes, it was 3 words total, but no one seems to mind that.
I wouldn't mind if Link occasionally said "Yes" or "No", but I'll admit that if he went onto a big monologue I'd be annoyed.
I say the series should stay to the text boxes, with some sighs from NPCs and grunts from Link. That's how the Metroid Prime games are, Samus only ever "spoke" in grunts when she's damaged.
No, definitely no. I'm not saying Link shouldn't have a personality, but he already has. He's the valiant warrior who fights for the good of everything, but who still has an insert-able personality.
I know I'm gonna get hated for saying this, but to some degree, The Legend of Zelda is to one certain degree, an RPG. It's not an RPG at the core, it's still an adventure game. But the thought that you can give the character your own name (even though you'd most often choose Link) and your character can't speak does give the thought to you that you are the hero, and is not merely controlling him.
The game puts immersion to the character in a different angle, in where you don't show your cleverness or ethics through words, but through actions. A voice breaks that barrier and reminds you that you're merely the controller of his actions, and that he is a character that acts on his own conditions. It breaks the freedom.
Now I know that voice or not, the linear story says the same. But think about this: When someone tells Link to go save the princess, you're still free to go around on scavenger hunts and doing side quests. You're free to wander everywhere you go. But think about games like Final Fantasy, where you can still go places, but your controlling a character that can talk and has his own ethics and goals. He has told himself that he will kill X or save Y. It gives the feeling that you're no longer him, because you would rather want to explore the world. It just feels that you're holding him on a string, dragging him away, doing stuff that he actually doesn't want to do.
If Link had a voice, it would break the idea that you're an explorer, and make you feel constricted to the plot because you're merely just dragging the character away from his own goals, rather than inserting your own.
The voice that he already has, the grunts and so on, are okay, because they're probably how we'd react. I know that I make a lot of noises when in pain, and I make occasional grunts to extenuate what I'm doing.
I hope I explained in an understandable way, I'm soooo tired right now, it's 4AM.
I know I'm gonna get hated for saying this, but to some degree, The Legend of Zelda is to one certain degree, an RPG. It's not an RPG at the core, it's still an adventure game. But the thought that you can give the character your own name (even though you'd most often choose Link) and your character can't speak does give the thought to you that you are the hero, and is not merely controlling him.
The game puts immersion to the character in a different angle, in where you don't show your cleverness or ethics through words, but through actions. A voice breaks that barrier and reminds you that you're merely the controller of his actions, and that he is a character that acts on his own conditions. It breaks the freedom.
Now I know that voice or not, the linear story says the same. But think about this: When someone tells Link to go save the princess, you're still free to go around on scavenger hunts and doing side quests. You're free to wander everywhere you go. But think about games like Final Fantasy, where you can still go places, but your controlling a character that can talk and has his own ethics and goals. He has told himself that he will kill X or save Y. It gives the feeling that you're no longer him, because you would rather want to explore the world. It just feels that you're holding him on a string, dragging him away, doing stuff that he actually doesn't want to do.
If Link had a voice, it would break the idea that you're an explorer, and make you feel constricted to the plot because you're merely just dragging the character away from his own goals, rather than inserting your own.
The voice that he already has, the grunts and so on, are okay, because they're probably how we'd react. I know that I make a lot of noises when in pain, and I make occasional grunts to extenuate what I'm doing.
I hope I explained in an understandable way, I'm soooo tired right now, it's 4AM.
Well, link has always been very expressive; I've always felt that the silence (both audio and text wise) was less so that that the player could connect themselves with the character and more so to let the player connect with the world around him. Let's face it; link is always the least interesting part of the game, always will be. Have I, or will I ever go "I wonder what link thinks of this"? Hell no. I don't give a damn about link. What I do give a damn about, however, is just about everything else; the cast of colourful characters, the vibrant and nuanced world, the wide variety of devilish monsters, the wonderfully clever level design, so on and so forth. Link shutting up is the perfect way for me to get more out of all that, and I respect Nintendo for making this move so consistently well across all of their games.Feylynn said:
Sure we have!John Funk said:
I agree with not making him a fully voice acted character though, he's fine the way he is now.
Link has become a timeless enough character that they would lose customers if they had Link speak. No matter what type of personality they gave him, there would be some group of fans who don't like it and refuse to have anything to do with it. Keeping him silent really is the best option.
The boy is like Mr.Freeman no talking unless he is in pain or battle.
But he dose need more cry's when fighting then just the same 3 fucking things.
But he dose need more cry's when fighting then just the same 3 fucking things.
I agree with the producer. Adding voices to characters forces you to make a definite, concrete character. Link has always been just an empty shell essentially, so that he could be fit into a lot of scenarios in the various Zelda games. Then you'd have the problem of character interactions. Zelda stories have always been told rather bluntly, keeping the emphasis on the dungeons and the major characters (though usually for me the villain). Adding a voice for Link would demand some sort of exposition focusing on him. Zelda is not a game series focused around the story of the hero character, but rather the world in which the character works in and the character's impact in said world.
Well, excuuuuuuse me, princess!Macgyvercas said:
To be completely honest, with characters like Gordon Freeman and Link, I always assumed that they were mute. So having them suddenly start talking would indeed feel very out of place for me.
For the love of God, no! I grew up on Zelda, Megaman, and Sonic. They've already ruined sonic, please do not ruin Zelda!
I love how Zelda DOESN'T have voice acting. The little sound snippets are just enough to get the personality of the characters and then it's not jarring to skip through the dialogue and cut off the voice actor so you can find out what you want to do next. That way, I can play through Zelda games at the pace that I want, have a good sense of what all the characters are like, and it saves me from annoying character catchphrases that seem to permeate most games that are aiming at being family friendly.
My thoughts are that a silent protaganist helps with immersion and getting you into the idea that the character is "you" or how you envision them. But then again I'm also massively in favor of character customization and increasingly against the idea of pre-packaged heroes that always behave in a specific way.
One important point about Link is that he's also been a character you could name and make your own, as Yahtzee says he likes to rename him "Fagballs" for example. The "Legend Of Zelda" cartoon also sort of demonstrated how inserting a voice and personality onto the character did not go over well. Link is one of those "characters" where I don't think any persona that could be created would mesh with the expectations of the player base. Especially seeing as he's more of an Avatar than a consistant character who has grown through these games (as the designers has pointed out, they pretty much stand alone, Link is not the same guy who keeps rescueing a princess who gets kidnapped every other week, even if the differant stories involve the same players).
Truthfully I think we more or less saw the future of gaming with "Saint's Row 2" though. That is to say having multiple voice actors read from the same basic script for a hero, and then letting the player choose a voice from a number of options. Most game companies are however too lazy and cheap to go down this path so far from the way it looks to me.
I say "lazy and cheap" because while it takes work, voice actors aren't quite as expensive as these companies seem to let on. I say this because in following Anime and such like I used to, I've seen interviews with professional voice actors both from Japan and the US at various times, and by all accounts making a living doing this kind of thing is very difficult because it doesn't pay all that well, a lot (probably most) of them having to take secondary jobs in order to support themselves.
Of course hiring big name actors is an exception to this, but then again I don't really think you need to hire celebrities to get quality voice acting. I mean sure, it's cool and all, but hardly nessicary. I mean I'd rather have a choice of say 8 differant voices for my hero than one voice track by Robin Williams or whomever.
One important point about Link is that he's also been a character you could name and make your own, as Yahtzee says he likes to rename him "Fagballs" for example. The "Legend Of Zelda" cartoon also sort of demonstrated how inserting a voice and personality onto the character did not go over well. Link is one of those "characters" where I don't think any persona that could be created would mesh with the expectations of the player base. Especially seeing as he's more of an Avatar than a consistant character who has grown through these games (as the designers has pointed out, they pretty much stand alone, Link is not the same guy who keeps rescueing a princess who gets kidnapped every other week, even if the differant stories involve the same players).
Truthfully I think we more or less saw the future of gaming with "Saint's Row 2" though. That is to say having multiple voice actors read from the same basic script for a hero, and then letting the player choose a voice from a number of options. Most game companies are however too lazy and cheap to go down this path so far from the way it looks to me.
I say "lazy and cheap" because while it takes work, voice actors aren't quite as expensive as these companies seem to let on. I say this because in following Anime and such like I used to, I've seen interviews with professional voice actors both from Japan and the US at various times, and by all accounts making a living doing this kind of thing is very difficult because it doesn't pay all that well, a lot (probably most) of them having to take secondary jobs in order to support themselves.
Of course hiring big name actors is an exception to this, but then again I don't really think you need to hire celebrities to get quality voice acting. I mean sure, it's cool and all, but hardly nessicary. I mean I'd rather have a choice of say 8 differant voices for my hero than one voice track by Robin Williams or whomever.