Zero Punctuation: Borderlands 2

[LifeMakesMeLOL]

Good.

Another reason not to buy it.

Except that little to none of what he said was true. Which is sad. All he bothered getting right was the quest tracker.

Because, you know, opinions can be wrong!

Jesus. These kinds of responses make me hate when people review popular games negatively, not because I like the games (and I do like Borderlands 2, a fair bit), but because people jump in and try to justify someone not liking their precious new game.

While normally I would agree with you, he's actually speaking mostly the truth. Yahtzee found it boring, that's an opinion. But he really did say some blatantly wrong things. Here's an example:

He doesn't like having to hold x to pick up money and ammo. This was the case in the first game and it was a common complaint. Borderlands 2 addresses this complaint having you pick these items up by simply walking over/near them. I don't know how he could have missed this if he has actually played even remotely far into the game.

Loot in containers has to be picked up. Only loot dropped from enemies has the auto-pick up thing.

I don't know how you could miss this is you have actually played even remotely far into the game. [sub][sub][/sub][/sub]

He made it sound like you had to press X for ALL drops but I'll give you this one.

How about this: he complains about the enemy variety in the first game and rightly so. You fought about 5 different enemy types for most of the game. He then says that this is the same case for the second game. Borderlands 2 has a massive variety of enemies. There around triple the enemy types and the old ones have been significantly fleshed out. This isn't an opinion, this is a fact.

He says that the skills of the Vault Hunters are different superficially from the previous ones but not in any practical way. You don't even need to play the game to see that this is obviously false. Just watch a couple gameplay videos and you will see that all of the Vault Hunter action skills are completely different with the only exception being Axton. But even his turret is waaaaay more useful than Roland's.

He complains about how you were so easily able to defeat Wilhelm even though he crushed the precious Vault Hunters. This is actually explained later in the game and someone else already pointed it out so I'm not going to go into detail.

He also says that most of the missions involve retrieving some piece of equipment that was stolen. Don't know how he came to this conclusion because I can't even think of any missions like this off the top of my head. There are probably a couple but he's blowing it way out of proportion.

I will say that one other thing he got right is that the vehicles handle badly. It's annoying but since driving isn't really a huge part of the game, it doesn't bother me too much.

This is probably why I didn't care much for this ZP, because there are a lot of things he said that were blatantly false about the game and while I already expected him to hate it as much as BL1, I had assumed he would of played it enough to at least pick up on the differences.

Of course, there's no reason to point this out because I'm sure it will be met with the usual responses of how I shouldn't take ZP seriously or that Yahtzee is justified in being wrong about the facts because it's his opinion.

Oh well, looking forward to next week's ZP now!

 

[Trilliandi]

Really the thing to look at here is that Borderlands (1 AND 2) is also an MMO by technicality, and we all know full well how Yahtzee hates those. Which is by all means fair, we all have a genre we don't like to some extent, and even those of us who play MMO's can look back on certain things and see the frivolity of it. But we still enjoy it, so more power to us I suppose.

In any case, seeing as he's played the best that MMO's have to offer (IE: WoW, Monster Hunter, DCUO) I think it's fair to say he might as well stop reviewing them, since it's clear he hates everything about the fundamentals of an MMO game. I mean let's face it Yahtzee... 'Go to _____, Collect 10 _____, and kill 15 _____' is pretty much cemented into the MMO formula.

On a side note, I'm amazed at the number of people having issues with the driving controls. Really, the first game's controls were very simple to me. Then again, my best gaming skills lie within driving games, but even so I'm sure I've seen much worse in much more popular games. (GTA IV anyone?)

 

[Grach]

Frankly I'm not really amazed he didn't finish the story. He sounded bored begining to end and even stated it himself (y'know, "this game bores me to fucking tears!"). I understand that his integrity is a bit compromised for not really going through the game, but then again, he didn't like the first one, hates games that rely on loot (dungeon crawlers have gotten it really bad from Yahtzee). He basically gave it the Gears of War 3 treatment of just pointing out how tedious the game is for him.

 

[Matthi205]

-snip-
On a side note, I'm amazed at the number of people having issues with the driving controls. Really, the first game's controls were very simple to me.

Everybody who hasn't got any problems with driving is playing the console release which pretty much uses the same controls as most driving games do. On the PC, however, using W and S for going back and forward and using the mouse for looking and steering is very uncomfortable and non-standard. They tried to fix what wasn't broken.

Ammo:
I only seem to find a lot of Shotgun ammo I don't use because I like to keep enemies at a safe distance away from me. This can get to be a problem in the beginning of the game when the only decent weapons are the gearbox sniper rifle and a Revolver. Also, if you don't like carrying a lot of weapons with you like me and instead have only two that use the same kind of ammo, then this probably is a big problem.

Weapons:
1.You CAN find decent guns at shops (I got a 168dmg sniper rifle from Marcus when everything I was looting where 70-100dmg ones).
2.Finding a decent Assault Rifle is doable, but admittedly too hard.
3.Good SMGs aren't too easy to find at first, but then again maybe I just didn't get lucky.

I'm soloing a Siren at level 14. I'm mainly using a 170 damage,4 Rounds per shot Torgue AR(aquired at level 14),an Elemental SMG (level 10) , a Vladof Sniper (level 12),some sort of shotgun I found and a 1456 damage Rocket Launcher I got at level 12.

 

[schwitz]

I gotta say, I'm a bit on the fence with Yahtzee's video,

Ill agree that it could have done things better (multiple mission selection, car handling).

But, at the same time I feel that he has missed some key points in comparison to BL1, for instance; The environments are so much more diverse and it doesn't feel like your running through the middle east the entire game. The enemies are loads different (apart from the obvious bandits and skags). Critical hits aren't always at the head, which became rather monotonous after a while in BL1. Weapons are so much different than the first one. It actually matters what brand you use.

Granted, this game certainly isn't for everyone.
But that said, I have found it really enjoyable both in Single and Multi Player.

 

[MrGalactus]

Why do people take it personally when Yahtzee says he doesn't like a game? He doesn't like it, you do. What's the problem. You yourself have done nothing wrong.

 

[bandman232]

Sometimes I think Yahtzee lacks comprehension. Just 5 Minutes after beating that "too easy" boss it should be obvious why it was so easy.
Or did he stop playing right after that boss?

Good.

Another reason not to buy it.

God... people are actually using zero punctuation to decide whether or not to buy a game?

Welp, looks like they're not buying anything ever again...

 

[WOPR]

And he didn't even rag on about it having a minecraft reference like he did about Castlevania Lords of Shadow having a Portal reference.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Well, I'm bored. Time for some ala-carte commentary.

It's the same steering mechanic used in Halo and a lot of people didn't complain about that. I'm assuming that you played it on the PC? The majority of console users I've seen playing love that kind of mechanic where people with a mouse and keyboard hate it. As do I, but it's tolerable.

I'm playing on the PC (only), don't own a 360 or PS3, and I have no problems with the driving controls. They were greatly improved from BL1, where driving felt way too..."floaty". Not just in vehicle gravity, but in how they "glided" over terrain. It felt sort of like turning an air-hockey table on and off.

Burnouts and hand-braking lets me do crazy things with the default Light Runner, and power-slide T-stops with the Bandit Utility Truck.

Why do people take it personally when Yahtzee says he doesn't like a game? He doesn't like it, you do. What's the problem. You yourself have done nothing wrong.

It isn't a matter of Yahtzee liking a game or not.
It's when he justifies his position with exaggerations, misinformation, and sometimes flat-out lies that some of us have problems with.

Re-read the complaints.
Some of his points aren't open to subjective interpretation, and are in fact, mistakes (like his comment on the Wilhelm fight).

It's so amusing to see all the fanboys bring out all the shields and go "NOOOO.YAHTEE U R WRONG!!!U DIDN'T PLAY THE GAEM RITE!!!!ONLI SURTAIN KIND OF PPL CAN APPRECIATE DIS MASTERPIECE!!"

Frankly, how borderlands became so popular in the first place is a surprise to me. B1 was crap, go here, shoot a few skags, come back.Also, don't forget your other assignment - go there, shoot some skags and come back!!!!You don't have to be (and i quote the person above me)"a certain kind of person to appreciate this kind of game and play it for dozens of hours."Sorry, a game that takes 10 hours to suck you in doesn't say well about itself.A game should be gripping from the start, but then again Gearbox knew that the fanboys will use the whole "Hey...play for 7 more hours!You'll find it fun!!!PROMISE" to their death.

This is why games like B2 exist, because they rack up so many brainwashed fanboys that the people who made the game are only catering to the horde, and not to other sensible people.I feel that i have wasted money on B2, and sadly B2 will just rot away in my backlog.

Your entire post is an "Ad-Hominem" fallacy, possibly a "Poisoning the Well".
Going by your own logic, I can call you a brainwashed Yahtzee fanboy sheep.

That's a pretty dumb thing to say. It's very easy to distinguish between little nitpicks Yahtzee points out for entertainment value and valid criticism he comes up with. *snip* Dismissing that as 'just being entertainment' is completely missing the point.

This is a common defense I see for Yahtzee's videos, and it's pretty weak.

"Oh, it's humorous and informative, ergo, still credible"
Humorous, definitely. His wit and wordplay are very very good.

Informative? Always questionable, especially when Yahtzee gets facts wrong or ignores them for the sake of a joke. And for this reason alone you should not use his reviews for any shopping guidance.

Then there's the problem of Bias.

Take one of his videos, separate his "serious" critical points from his humor, and weigh the results against each other just point by point. Subtracting hyperbole and jokes, you will find that they are overwhelmingly negatively bias.
Hell, you can make adjustments to weight nitpicks even less than other complaints and it will STILL come out as being highly negative.

Worse, it's a problem he manufactures. He commented early in his videos that "nobody likes it when he's being positive" (paraphrased), and that's unfortunately a product of the internet hate machine.
Hell, there's an entire internet business built on this premise.

Finally, his excuse of "Assume everything I don't mention is perfectly fine" doesn't fly if we're to take him seriously.
I suspect it's just an excuse way to keep the video short and manageable for a weekly show, which again, plays entirely to the strengths of the HUMOR, but is an anathema for critical review because we can never see how he draws comparisons.

The mark of a reliable review is how the good compares with the bad.
If you only ever talk about the shit, and emphasize the shit, then everything looks like shit regardless of it's positive qualities. Granted, some games *are* nothing but shit (Too Human), but not *everything* can be shit.

 

[SilverUchiha]

I didn't like Borderlands 1 for the same reasons Yahtzee mentioned back in his earlier review, and I did play it with friends, and it was still shit. It sucks when I'm trying to explore the world and they go off doing quests and missions so when I arrive to do stuff, it's all killed or looted. If anything, playing with other people made the experience worse for me.

Seeing as how we were on the same page for Borderlands 1, I'm going to continue holding off on buying Borderlands 2 because I expected I would dislike it as much. More so with all the references I keep hearing are in it. I'm not against Easter Eggs, but this game seems to make pop-culture references all over the place. It comes off as more annoying than impressive.

 

[snowfi6916]

I played Borderlands 1 and liked it somewhat. Got kind of boring after I beat it and rolled 2 or 3 more characters. I haven't played Borderlands 2 yet.

But I might have to reconsider that after I saw this. This is from the upcoming DLC, the Mechromancer skill tree:

Spoiler

I promise you this isn't Photoshoped.

Every single one of those skills is a reference to FiM. So yeah, I might need to pick that up =).

 

[G-Force]

Borderlands 2 is just Borderlands 1.5.

They actually added a story that somewhat works.
Improved the shooting part a bit.
Made weapons stand out a bit more.

That's about it. It's a small improvement.

What about the unique builds you can use with characters?
How each active skill is modified by the skill tree?
What about the better quest writing and now each side quest has its own resolution that adds to the universe of borderlands?
How about the increase emphasis on backstory and lore in addition to character backgrounds new and old?
More enemy types and enviorments.
An improved skill tree with the challenge system that allows players to select upgrades in what they want.

Is it really just a 1.5 game when almost everything was overhauld?

 

[antidark777]

I played Borderlands 1 and liked it somewhat. Got kind of boring after I beat it and rolled 2 or 3 more characters. I haven't played Borderlands 2 yet.

But I might have to reconsider that after I saw this. This is from the upcoming DLC, the Mechromancer skill tree:

Spoiler

I promise you this isn't Photoshoped.

Every single one of those skills is a reference to FiM. So yeah, I might need to pick that up =).

Ugh, i'll stick with commando thanks

 

[Tilted_Logic]

I was really looking forward to his take on the dialogue; I thought Anthony Burch did a fantastic job. I feel somehow deprived not hearing Yahtzee's humor clash with the tongue and cheek of the game conversations.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Eh? Shub-Nigurath (sp?) ? Wasn't he/she/it the final boss from the 1st Quake?

 

[Reginald]

Eh? Shub-Nigurath (sp?) ? Wasn't he/she/it the final boss from the 1st Quake?

The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young, as imagined by Howard P. Lovecraft and given birth to by id.

 

[Fenix7]

I'm sure you don't read this deep in these threads, Yahtzee, but I wonder why you used a map of Iran for the quest part of the video. I am intrigued.

 

[AgedGrunt]

Will someone stop giving Yahtzee games that are supposed to be played in multiplayer? I mean, he usually plays single-player only, so he's not gonna enjoy them... we get that by now. Just let him review single player games.

Maybe because MP doesn't fix anything, and using that to make up for a re-hashed, unimaginative game with legitimately bad qualities is pathetic and inexcusable?

I played all the way through Borderlands, and my experience online is that everyone moves 100x faster than my pace, drives off to wherever, with or without me, and Leeroy Jenkins' every quest and boss. If the connection isn't terrible, I actually got to stay and shoot at stuff with my horribly underpowered weapons because multiplayer difficulty.

 

[Zefar]

What about the unique builds you can use with characters?

Unique builds? Please, it just add some passive bonus and I will bet my ass there are only about 2 and MAYBE 3 builds that works on last levels. This didn't change much in the first game. I just had like 2 builds. Depended on which weapon I used.

How each active skill is modified by the skill tree?

The first game had that and it didn't that much. You still used the same skill over and over and over and over. No bloody variation there. I hardly used the skill as it was boring as hell and didn't do any cool stuff.

What about the better quest writing and now each side quest has its own resolution that adds to the universe of borderlands?

If it's just a bit better from the first I can say that I really didn't care for anyone except the girl going crazy. She was the only character I cared about. Listening to the General was also nice. Everyone else could just kill themselves and I wouldn't care.

Doubt the 2:nd game gonna make me care that much.

How about the increase emphasis on backstory and lore in addition to character backgrounds new and old?
More enemy types and enviorments.

So it has a backstory now? It better have. The old characters btw should be close to Godlike when they fight. But from what I've heard they ain't.

Some more enemies types is always good.

An improved skill tree with the challenge system that allows players to select upgrades in what they want.

Is it really just a 1.5 game when almost everything was overhauld?

How much does those challenges change? A few % at time? I'm gonna guess not by much as I've played the first game and they are that eager to boost your power.

They didn't overhaul the game, they made some areas better than before but they still have the same boring skills. The game is still just about shooting things down and level up. Then look for loot.

They could have done so much more things with the active skills. So much more. For instance, the Turret could have it's projectile change from flame thrower to Lightning bolts depending on what artifact you use.

The other characters would have to get some other functions. This is just a 1.5 of Borderlands 1.

 

[G-Force]

They could have done so much more things with the active skills. So much more. For instance, the Turret could have it's projectile change from flame thrower to Lightning bolts depending on what artifact you use.

The other characters would have to get some other functions. This is just a 1.5 of Borderlands 1.

But turret does change. You can have it mount to walls and ceilings, have it detonate like an explosion, mount rockets, double its guns. Heck you can even take it down earlier to reduce CD.

Then there's Zero's escape which you can use for backstabbing or creating distance for your next sniper shot.

Or Maya that allows you to focus on elemental damage, disabling opponents or mind control

Haven't played gunzerker so I can't really say.