Yes, to be fair, though, that's for experienced players who already know where every item and monster is and how to bypass everything that isn't flat out required.Seraj33 said:I'd just like to mention that you do not by any means NEED to go fight the Church roof Gargoyles first. There is this one great lets play were the player goes through the catacombs and pretty much every other area in the game before Anor Londo, before he even deals with the Capra Demon. And he did it all while only being level six too.
Ditto. I get the decision to not allow the game to pause (you can't pause online games for pretty obvious reasons)..but I don't care about any online aspect in this game. At best, I was utterly indifferent to it during those times when I was basically just playing a single-player game. At worst, I hated it, because the only substantial change in the game that happened when I stayed online was an ungodly powerful griefer teleporting into my newbie game and oneshotting me.chiggerwood said:I hate dark souls for the simple fact that you can't pause. Fuck whoever thought that was a good design decision.
Yeah...that sounds almost exactly like my experience, except I loaded up a walkthrough by about the third encounter with the seemingly invulnerable skeletons. Apparently, it was supposed to be instinctive knowledge that skeletons are basically immune to swords and deathly vulnerable to maces.Silentpony said:Maybe I'm playing like a beta copy of this game. I got Dark Souls ages ago and I put it down after my first weekend play-through. I remember that every monster killed me for hours and hours and hours. I also remember how terrible the level layout was. At first I took an obvious path up a cliff where a bunch of unkillable skeleton knights killed me. I spent a good three hours trying to fight them, but everytime I did kill one (no easy feet mind you) they just re-spawned instantly. Then after reading I wasn't supposed to go there, I went down the second most obvious path - the elevator to the underworld - and boom! More skeletons and more death. Two hours there too before I realized that oopps, wasn't supposed to be here either. Boy would I like some sort of instruction telling me where I'm supposed to go and why, because at this point I had completely forgotten the entire plot.
It wasn't until, like Yatzhee said, I read a f-ing walk-through that I learned there was a third completely hidden path that led to where I was supposed to go. This was maybe...6 hours of gameplay at this point.
The problem I had with it was the utter lack of direction. You're not told anything and expected to learn by dying enough times to trial-and-error your way through.Silentpony said:See you can either have a game that's incredibly hard OR you can have a game that's incredibly obtuse. You can't do both because you'll get players like me, who know A. Monsters are really hard and B. Hate it when monsters kill you spending 3+ hours trying to kill one or two monsters, convinced the error is on my gameplay, NOT that the game was dumb enough to leave the door to the level 30 zone right next to the starting location.
That's why I can't get back into this game. It was trial and error - no no, it was something way worse. It was just error.
I think I quit after my 135th death, and I was sent back to the first camp fire again.
It's got to be a lot. Easily one of the most frustrating sections in the game. I finally broke down and Poison Arrow'ed them both and waited out the minute or so it takes for them to die.anthony87 said:Fuck that bit with the archers, just fuck it. I wonder how many billions of souls have been collectively lost because of that part.
Unfortunately, this one always sucks on NG. I hate getting past it. I think the last time I did it on NG, I just used a Ring of Fog to bypass the sentinels and demons and then made a best run to get up next to the main BK archer. Still died a few times. Bastard. Easily one of the most frustrating sections to get through.Slycne said:It's got to be a lot. Easily one of the most frustrating sections in the game. I finally broke down and Poison Arrow'ed them both and waited out the minute or so it takes for them to die.anthony87 said:Fuck that bit with the archers, just fuck it. I wonder how many billions of souls have been collectively lost because of that part.
I agree with you 100%. As a player, you had no direction and no basis from which understand and judge encounters. Like the first boss that you run away from. That killed me maybe a dozen times because I've never heard of a game where you run away from the FIRST boss. Especially when the first level is a training course to get familiarized with the controls. Usually the first boss is a test of the basic dodge/block/hit/more powerful hit mechanics. Not a beginners trap you're not supposed to fight.Char-Nobyl said:Yeah...that sounds almost exactly like my experience, except I loaded up a walkthrough by about the third encounter with the seemingly invulnerable skeletons. Apparently, it was supposed to be instinctive knowledge that skeletons are basically immune to swords and deathly vulnerable to maces.Silentpony said:SNIP
The problem I had with it was the utter lack of direction. You're not told anything and expected to learn by dying enough times to trial-and-error your way through.Silentpony said:SNIP
Unfortunately, I went into the game with the expectation of "Really challenging but also very rewarding RPG" when what it played like was a 3D version of 'I Wanna Be The Guy.' Those are two wildly different experiences. They can both be fun, sure, but you have to know what you're getting into and design the game appropriately. I think a lot more people would enjoy the game if it was just a little more obvious what direction you're supposed to be going in. Not what direction you're required to go in, mind you. If you want to brave an area that expects you to be much tougher than you are, then by all means.
But as it stands, it's a game with very little direction to give players that expects you to gauge which way you need to go based on whichever direction kills you the fewest times, and that's a problem. In virtually every game ever, 'death' is synonymous with 'failure.' If you didn't enter the game with the modified mindset that death does not equal failure, you're going to get frustrated real fast.
And when you have a dozen different types of weapons, spells, and magic doo-dads that can drastically change how effective you are against certain enemies, there will be players (like you and me, apparently) who hurl themselves into zones while wildly underleveled because the only information on the game they were told was "The game is super hard."
Look, I realize that I'm one of the smug assholes that Yahtzee warned everyone about, but, as I indicated in my last post and several other people have, finding those skeletons was specifically NOT the "paved road the game started me on." In fact, to find them, you have to go hunting around through the buildings and completely ignore the stairs leading UP from the spot where you started next to the guy who tells you that your first objective is UP.Silentpony said:You would think you didn't fight well, not that "OH! This sheep is obviously ten levels higher than me! I should go find that secret passage no-one ever mentioned and take the stupid dirt path out of town, not the paved road the game started me on!"
Somehow I don't think that would sell very well...
The game relies on the constant threat of being attacked at any time and one of those threats are other players invading your world to give you a few quick backstabs and then run back to their world with all your humanity. If the game could be paused that system wouldn't work, it's actually a good design decision, not only because it makes the online presence run smoothly but it also links into the idea of being constantly oppressed, if you want to "pause" the game, find a bonfire somewhere, it's basically the same thing, the best one is the starter bonfire in Firelink Shrine as it's the only bonfire that's 100% safe from invasions.chiggerwood said:I hate dark souls for the simple fact that you can't pause. Fuck whoever thought that was a good design decision.
No it is not a good design decision. Let's just say, and I'm (not really) just pulling this out of thin air here, there's someone who wants to play this game, but unfortunately they have bowel issues where their bowels don't send a polite message informing them of an incoming movement that needs to be dealt with some time in the next half hour or so, but instead look at the person and say "Time to shit, you got ten seconds. In the chair or on the toilet, doesn't matter to me; this is happening now." Then the whole system just seems like a giant fuck you. Also there is no way I want to deal with fucking griefers while I'm trying to play a single player campaign, in a game that's as about inviting as leather face's family. So yeah the entire online gimmick is awful and should be optional.k-ossuburb said:The game relies on the constant threat of being attacked at any time and one of those threats are other players invading your world to give you a few quick backstabs and then run back to their world with all your humanity. If the game could be paused that system wouldn't work, it's actually a good design decision, not only because it makes the online presence run smoothly but it also links into the idea of being constantly oppressed, if you want to "pause" the game, find a bonfire somewhere, it's basically the same thing, the best one is the starter bonfire in Firelink Shrine as it's the only bonfire that's 100% safe from invasions.chiggerwood said:I hate dark souls for the simple fact that you can't pause. Fuck whoever thought that was a good design decision.