Zero Punctuation: Eve Online
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Ah, another MMORPG. Are there any of those fucking things that are worth coffee beans shat out of a cat's ass?
Frankly, I'm probably more biased against MMO's that even Yahtzee as I detest internet chat rooms and playing a shitty game attached to a chat room sounds like a special created just for me. Well, isn't that sweet.
Although, I have to admit that the people online are a mere annoyance that could be overlooked like a yeast infection that only itches occasionally if I found the game worth play, and no, I don't. All of that RPG tomfoolery can go fuck themselves and Tom, too. I detest creating a character, picking stats, skill, equipment, underpants, etc. I detest completing quest to gain experience to build up my character. Just everything about these things is designed specifically to piss me off. These are not fun things to do. Make the game fun, or fuck off. This is what MMO creators should do.
Frankly, I'm probably more biased against MMO's that even Yahtzee as I detest internet chat rooms and playing a shitty game attached to a chat room sounds like a special created just for me. Well, isn't that sweet.
Although, I have to admit that the people online are a mere annoyance that could be overlooked like a yeast infection that only itches occasionally if I found the game worth play, and no, I don't. All of that RPG tomfoolery can go fuck themselves and Tom, too. I detest creating a character, picking stats, skill, equipment, underpants, etc. I detest completing quest to gain experience to build up my character. Just everything about these things is designed specifically to piss me off. These are not fun things to do. Make the game fun, or fuck off. This is what MMO creators should do.
To you morons who think Yahtzee's 14-day based disapproval is justification for thinking the game just another badly-made World of Warcraft clone, or a generally bad-made game altogether, go become a Scientologist or something, since you're a unimaginative, lazy ewe who likes to live on a whim. Yes, as he is a reviewer, you would do good to heed the opinion of a learned man like Mr. Croshaw when trying to form an opinion of a game yourself. The key words here are 'form an opinion of a game yourself'. Really, you should know by now whether you like EVE or not. Unlike WoW who tries to cater to all, fails, but still reaps in enough profits to but their own private island and pay a marching band of moaning whores to walk down the office every day, EVE is a game that, while you take as much out of it as you put in to it like all other games of the genre, you have to do more than this to excel. Dull, tedious and unintuitive at times? For certain. It doesn't make it any worse than point and click games ( well, to be honest, EVE is pretty point-and-click to an even greater extent, but try to get my point )'like' WoW, which is some compromise between traditional roleplaying games and the frothy-mouthed world of first-person action shooters.
It's the true thinking man's game, and to get the most out of it, you'd really have to have a degree from an Ivy League school in mathematics and economics. But kind of like I'd need to have been dropped rather frequently as a child to still pay for World of Warcraft in proportion to how much ACTUAL enjoyment I'm still getting out of it, you like what you like, and don't what you don't. I certainly don't like not being able to take in all of the complex firing rate to tracking speed to weapon velocity to target velocity mathematics that I at times have to crunch to get the best out of my marketing decisions, and much less having to fly half across the fucking universe just to buy a gun for 20% cheaper than the one I could've bought in my own station, but I do enjoy having a sleek, gold-plated pimp machine that pumps out red streams of coherent photons... of death, all the same time pulling that pesky little darting frigate closer to me with large waves of gravity-manipulating energy.
You know, kind of like I hate having to kill x amount of x for x bloody hours just to afford to get x magical codpiece of the lion's bullocks.
It's the true thinking man's game, and to get the most out of it, you'd really have to have a degree from an Ivy League school in mathematics and economics. But kind of like I'd need to have been dropped rather frequently as a child to still pay for World of Warcraft in proportion to how much ACTUAL enjoyment I'm still getting out of it, you like what you like, and don't what you don't. I certainly don't like not being able to take in all of the complex firing rate to tracking speed to weapon velocity to target velocity mathematics that I at times have to crunch to get the best out of my marketing decisions, and much less having to fly half across the fucking universe just to buy a gun for 20% cheaper than the one I could've bought in my own station, but I do enjoy having a sleek, gold-plated pimp machine that pumps out red streams of coherent photons... of death, all the same time pulling that pesky little darting frigate closer to me with large waves of gravity-manipulating energy.
You know, kind of like I hate having to kill x amount of x for x bloody hours just to afford to get x magical codpiece of the lion's bullocks.
I just have to ask - what is a purpose of having an advert for Zero Punctuation after the review?
Come on. We've already watched it. We know that Zero Punctuation is posted every Wednesday on The Escapist. WE'RE ALREADY THERE!!!
Just wondering...
Come on. We've already watched it. We know that Zero Punctuation is posted every Wednesday on The Escapist. WE'RE ALREADY THERE!!!
Just wondering...
I never saw what the big deal was about eve. Basically I think people like it because they wanted to play an MMO in space. Fuck 'em.
I personally have only gotten into one MMO ever, and it's called Asda Story. It's not well known, and it does have a lot of the same crappy MMO elements, but there's a lot of other interesting things thrown in.
You can make a soul bond with another person and have extra abilities and experience points just for doing so, for example. Also there's some real strategy involved as when I'm attacking a monster, I tend to get gangraped by all his friends unless I (as an archer) shoot a magical arrow that makes them bleed a good 50 hit points every couple seconds and then another one that hits everyone within range of the one I was aiming at that poisons them for 200 hit points every quarter of a minute, then focus my alternating 'normal kicking-things-around' attack and my special 'press the 6 key after the skill cools' attack on the one that still has the most health and the least bleeding. Then by the time I kill that one, the other three are already dead. That's a feeling of accomplishment, right there.
Oh yeah, the best thing about Asda is that I don't have to pay for it.
One more thing. If 14 days isn't enough time to know whether or not I like a game or not, then first of all, what the fuck is the purpose of the free trial, if not to make people like it enough by the end to buy it? Second of all, I need immediate satisfaction, personally.
I personally have only gotten into one MMO ever, and it's called Asda Story. It's not well known, and it does have a lot of the same crappy MMO elements, but there's a lot of other interesting things thrown in.
You can make a soul bond with another person and have extra abilities and experience points just for doing so, for example. Also there's some real strategy involved as when I'm attacking a monster, I tend to get gangraped by all his friends unless I (as an archer) shoot a magical arrow that makes them bleed a good 50 hit points every couple seconds and then another one that hits everyone within range of the one I was aiming at that poisons them for 200 hit points every quarter of a minute, then focus my alternating 'normal kicking-things-around' attack and my special 'press the 6 key after the skill cools' attack on the one that still has the most health and the least bleeding. Then by the time I kill that one, the other three are already dead. That's a feeling of accomplishment, right there.
Oh yeah, the best thing about Asda is that I don't have to pay for it.
One more thing. If 14 days isn't enough time to know whether or not I like a game or not, then first of all, what the fuck is the purpose of the free trial, if not to make people like it enough by the end to buy it? Second of all, I need immediate satisfaction, personally.
Its one of those games that only appeals to a few people.
To be honest, I got the 21 day steam free trial, and very much enjoyed it. There where a few things that where total arse, but something about it grabbed me. However, at the very end of my trial, when the 'BUY NOW' words flashed across my screen...
Do I really want to pay for this?
Answer?
NO.
To be honest, I got the 21 day steam free trial, and very much enjoyed it. There where a few things that where total arse, but something about it grabbed me. However, at the very end of my trial, when the 'BUY NOW' words flashed across my screen...
Do I really want to pay for this?
Answer?
NO.
This is about the first review that I've actually disagreed with.
Actually no, I'll correct that. I agree with everything that you've just said; because the only part that you played/reviewed was the part of the game which is there because there's an unbelievable amount of people in the world who want to pay for a massively MULTIPLAYER online game and then play it by themselves. The developers have to shoe-horn single player missions into games so that that sort of person has something to do without having to make friends or socialise in any way. That part of the game is incredibly tedious, pointless and generally not fun in the slightest. The only problem is that this is the part of the game that all new players are introduced to; resulting in most new players thinking that this is what EVE is about. It's not.
The real point of EVE is the social and political aspect of the game, it is entirely possible to get to that point in the game without losing your entire life over it, in fact it's designed to be like that, which is why the skill training carries on when you aren't online so that you can still progress even if you only actively play once a week.
All that being said though, it's an immensely complicated game. The only reason that I have any clue about it at all is because I've been playing on and off since it was released when the game was significantly simpler, if I was starting from scratch right now it would be a nightmare and I would be completely put off.
So yeah, I agree with this review; I just think it's a shame that the good part of EVE is so difficult to get to because I've found that it has been one of the most rewarding and thrilling MMOGs that I've ever played; you just can't achieve anything meaningful enough to hook you in within the 14 day trial or significantly longer than that. Particularly if you only play alone.
Actually no, I'll correct that. I agree with everything that you've just said; because the only part that you played/reviewed was the part of the game which is there because there's an unbelievable amount of people in the world who want to pay for a massively MULTIPLAYER online game and then play it by themselves. The developers have to shoe-horn single player missions into games so that that sort of person has something to do without having to make friends or socialise in any way. That part of the game is incredibly tedious, pointless and generally not fun in the slightest. The only problem is that this is the part of the game that all new players are introduced to; resulting in most new players thinking that this is what EVE is about. It's not.
The real point of EVE is the social and political aspect of the game, it is entirely possible to get to that point in the game without losing your entire life over it, in fact it's designed to be like that, which is why the skill training carries on when you aren't online so that you can still progress even if you only actively play once a week.
All that being said though, it's an immensely complicated game. The only reason that I have any clue about it at all is because I've been playing on and off since it was released when the game was significantly simpler, if I was starting from scratch right now it would be a nightmare and I would be completely put off.
So yeah, I agree with this review; I just think it's a shame that the good part of EVE is so difficult to get to because I've found that it has been one of the most rewarding and thrilling MMOGs that I've ever played; you just can't achieve anything meaningful enough to hook you in within the 14 day trial or significantly longer than that. Particularly if you only play alone.
I tried the 14 day trial as did Yahtzee and I was disappointed...everything he just said...I agree with...
I joined just to reply to this weeks review.
I haven't laughed so hard in a while, I tell you that much. So thumbs up on that!
Now, I do however think Yahtzee didn't get a few things right... First off, player corps are very diverse. Some are, like he said, "JOOOINZ UZ NOWS!", while others are made up of decent and fun loving people. I think it's like this in any MMO really. But if one was to make some statistics, then I'm sure that EVE has a lot less of the idiot-crowd than, say, WoW. Also, I don't really understand the complaint about large number of skills and their naming; at the start you just pick basic guns, and those oddities come MUCH later... at which point you know what you need rather than pick them blind. Also, the question of how friendly the UI is is a matter of debate; considering the options that EVE provides, I'd say it's really good.
I do however have to agree about the NPC combat and missions; they suck. They're repetitive and pure "grind". PvP combat is a bit more interesting due to the large number of things that can go wrong or right...
Finally, a word about the skills system: EVE has a terrible tendency to be extremely slow at the start, despite being able to complete the early skills in a matter of minutes. That's because you still need SOME ship setup (and, above all, a decent ship), and that takes some diversity. But even with the 14-day trial I managed to get a cruiser and do some nice blasting here and there... but I won't deny: you need SOME in-game knowledge of how things work to get that done, and if you're just jumping right in chances are you won't know what the hell you're doing.
I somehow suspect that Yahtzee didn't really socialize at all in EVE... not even with the nice people from the newbie help channels. If he did, I'm sure he'd get a lot more information and he'd be able to get more done within those 14 days. Alas, this game CANNOT be played 'alone'. Well, I take that back; it can, but then it's really, REALLY boring.
Still, with all said and done, this game is nevertheless a lot better than the X series in all aspects but the combat... and THAT game series always got some oddly high scores everywhere.
I haven't laughed so hard in a while, I tell you that much. So thumbs up on that!
Now, I do however think Yahtzee didn't get a few things right... First off, player corps are very diverse. Some are, like he said, "JOOOINZ UZ NOWS!", while others are made up of decent and fun loving people. I think it's like this in any MMO really. But if one was to make some statistics, then I'm sure that EVE has a lot less of the idiot-crowd than, say, WoW. Also, I don't really understand the complaint about large number of skills and their naming; at the start you just pick basic guns, and those oddities come MUCH later... at which point you know what you need rather than pick them blind. Also, the question of how friendly the UI is is a matter of debate; considering the options that EVE provides, I'd say it's really good.
I do however have to agree about the NPC combat and missions; they suck. They're repetitive and pure "grind". PvP combat is a bit more interesting due to the large number of things that can go wrong or right...
Finally, a word about the skills system: EVE has a terrible tendency to be extremely slow at the start, despite being able to complete the early skills in a matter of minutes. That's because you still need SOME ship setup (and, above all, a decent ship), and that takes some diversity. But even with the 14-day trial I managed to get a cruiser and do some nice blasting here and there... but I won't deny: you need SOME in-game knowledge of how things work to get that done, and if you're just jumping right in chances are you won't know what the hell you're doing.
I somehow suspect that Yahtzee didn't really socialize at all in EVE... not even with the nice people from the newbie help channels. If he did, I'm sure he'd get a lot more information and he'd be able to get more done within those 14 days. Alas, this game CANNOT be played 'alone'. Well, I take that back; it can, but then it's really, REALLY boring.
Still, with all said and done, this game is nevertheless a lot better than the X series in all aspects but the combat... and THAT game series always got some oddly high scores everywhere.
I play Eve Online, for starters.
Yahtzee made a number of very accurate statements concerning the game. Some subtler details of the game he missed out on.
Combat in Eve is actually considerably more complicated than he made it out to be, but the mechanics behind it are somewhat obtuse and a new player on a 14 day trial isn't going to need to understand these mechanics.
Something about Eve that is unlike any other MMO is that a relatively new character could take out a veteran of a year or more, depending on the situation. This makes it a great PVP game.
Further, a small ship, even the smallest, can have a very significant impact on the outcome of a battle, and in swarms can potentially take out the biggest baddest ships in the game. The goons from Something Awful (Who are CRAZY about Eve, BTW) took out a Titan (biggest ship in the game) with swarms of frigates (smallest!) and minimal support from a few larger ships.
Eve is probably one of THE most complicated games I've ever played in my life, and definitely the most complex MMO. Considering how console-centric Yahtzee seems to be (can't blame him, thats where the industry is going it seems) I'm not only surprised he reviewed it but that he even made as many astute observations as he did.
As for it being boring though, I'm sure yahtzee didn't fly into the "unprotected" space seeking blood. He has no excuse either, because a 2 day old newbie can do this and still get kills if he picks his targets right. Ever wanna be a space pirate? Talk about adrenaline! YARRR. See, Eve doesn't hand you fun on a silver platter per se, but if you give it a chance you'll find your niche and maybe it'll just hit the spot. So perhaps I'd venture to say that Yahtzee kinda missed the mark on this one. Can't blame him... I found EVE difficult to just wrap my mind around, but reviewing it? Damn.
Yahtzee made a number of very accurate statements concerning the game. Some subtler details of the game he missed out on.
Combat in Eve is actually considerably more complicated than he made it out to be, but the mechanics behind it are somewhat obtuse and a new player on a 14 day trial isn't going to need to understand these mechanics.
Something about Eve that is unlike any other MMO is that a relatively new character could take out a veteran of a year or more, depending on the situation. This makes it a great PVP game.
Further, a small ship, even the smallest, can have a very significant impact on the outcome of a battle, and in swarms can potentially take out the biggest baddest ships in the game. The goons from Something Awful (Who are CRAZY about Eve, BTW) took out a Titan (biggest ship in the game) with swarms of frigates (smallest!) and minimal support from a few larger ships.
Eve is probably one of THE most complicated games I've ever played in my life, and definitely the most complex MMO. Considering how console-centric Yahtzee seems to be (can't blame him, thats where the industry is going it seems) I'm not only surprised he reviewed it but that he even made as many astute observations as he did.
As for it being boring though, I'm sure yahtzee didn't fly into the "unprotected" space seeking blood. He has no excuse either, because a 2 day old newbie can do this and still get kills if he picks his targets right. Ever wanna be a space pirate? Talk about adrenaline! YARRR. See, Eve doesn't hand you fun on a silver platter per se, but if you give it a chance you'll find your niche and maybe it'll just hit the spot. So perhaps I'd venture to say that Yahtzee kinda missed the mark on this one. Can't blame him... I found EVE difficult to just wrap my mind around, but reviewing it? Damn.
Its not really fair to say it tries to be WoW. Why? Because it is actually OLDER than WoW; the game was released in 2003.
It is different than WoW; saying it is like WoW is a bit misleading. It is an MMO, which means that it is fundamentally similar to all other MMOs on some level, but it isn't particularly like WoW any more so than, say, it is like Homeworld.
The reality is that it differs significantly. The largest difference is the fact that in Eve, you spend approximately 95% of the time in the game AFK.
He did in fact hit the nail on the head when he said it is a game that doesn't want to be played because, let's face it, it isn't. Its a game in which time directly equates to experience, and if you don't want to, you don't have to really do anything. Its actually a pretty brilliant plan as you can play it very casually and level up.
The issue is that while this system is brilliant, both from an economics standpoint and the standpoint of someone who doesn't want to grind, the game still INVOLVES grinding via getting money. On the other hand, you can simply AFK while mining and only check up on yourself every ten minutes or so, but it still doesn't do away with the annoying grinding.
The real problem, however, is the fact that there is nowhere to go - the game is ENTIRELY player driven. Unless you're fighting with other players, or going out with other players, the game is completely without value as the game in and of itself has little to offer you. If you aren't a part of a player corporation you literally can't have fun playing the game for more than a week or so because you've literally done everything worth doing the game directly offers you.
Yah yah another Eve vet signing in 07
a. Eve is not a single player game.
b. Corp is just a name for a guild
c. In failing to actually play in multi-player mode he missed out on so much more to take the p*** out of. The fact that 80% of people play women in a rpg with about 95% men for a start and the high levels of homoerotic conversations that spring up because of this (I'm looking at you ball shaving conversations in irc), also he failed to see our outstanding culture of greafing and he didn't get blown up by a pirate demanding a ransom only to be mocked by his own corp mates.
d. Not every eve player is a virgin, apart from goonswarm, they all are, especially HK.
a. Eve is not a single player game.
b. Corp is just a name for a guild
c. In failing to actually play in multi-player mode he missed out on so much more to take the p*** out of. The fact that 80% of people play women in a rpg with about 95% men for a start and the high levels of homoerotic conversations that spring up because of this (I'm looking at you ball shaving conversations in irc), also he failed to see our outstanding culture of greafing and he didn't get blown up by a pirate demanding a ransom only to be mocked by his own corp mates.
d. Not every eve player is a virgin, apart from goonswarm, they all are, especially HK.
I tried the fourteen day trial and I felt exactly the same.
Jesus christ, if this is what colonozing space is going to be like then forget that nonsense.
Jesus christ, if this is what colonozing space is going to be like then forget that nonsense.