Zero Punctuation: Eve Online

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guyy

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Mar 6, 2008
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Haha, that was great. Someone else finally thinks EVE is stupid. Once you get bored of its semi-flashy graphics, you realize there's not much else to it...

...well, besides all the incredibly complex leveling/equipment/weapons/ships/etc. system. Though, to me, that stuff is more annoying than fun.

If [a href="http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=27"]this[/a] ever comes out, I might actually try a space MMO for once; it's everything EVE should have been but isn't. Until then, I guess I'm stuck in the even smaller whiny city of people who hate EVE.
 

JonahNYC

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Mar 13, 2008
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Old saying that a lot of children online don't get:

One man's meat is another man's poison.

Ben doesn't seem to get it either.
 

Xennith

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Sep 4, 2008
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Fools Paradise post=6.70442.694846 said:
Xennith post=6.70442.694244 said:
[bitter nerd rage directed at eve players]

tl;dr - Judgement was accurate. Should really have tried being part of a corp. God, EVE players are dicks.
I'm sorry you lost your ship the first time you went into low sec, told said PvPer exactly how you felt in this in eve mail/local/the forums, got mocked for it by everyone and then rage quit eve.
Actually, not a single part of that is true.
Like many players, the first time I went through low-sec was perilous as a novice, but it took the third trip to do me in, and like any EVE player who can survive the game, I just picked up the pieces and moved on, like a sane person.
I never even talked to the low-sec pirates that ambushed me and my corpmates, and I never posted on the forums about it, nor was I mocked for it.
And I still play EVE, as part of a growing 0.0 alliance in the Catch region, friendly with IAC, CVA, Vanguard, and Sylph.

You see, I have a loathing of griefers, more than anything else, but I also understand that they DO only represent a small portion of the EVE populous, the problem is that even representing a mere fraction of the playerbase, they happen to also be, statistically, the most destructive and the most loud-mouthed (Just look at the forums sometime).

So while I'm a little upset by the fact people ARE willing to suspend their morality in virtual universe that begs for it not to be, I also refuse to let that interfere with my own enjoyment of the game, and I'm on a personal quest (A crusade, if you will) to prove that you don't have to be a morally depraved killing machine to be successful in EVE.

So far, so good.
 

guyy

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JonahNYC post=6.70442.697751 said:
Old saying that a lot of children online don't get:

One man's meat is another man's poison.
It's not wrong to like EVE. I just don't. It's not worth my time or my money, let alone both; but if you think it's worth yours, go ahead and play it.

Also, a lot of people (including me) act unusually sarcastic and arrogant when posting in a ZP thread, for obvious reasons.
 

Metrin_Slerba

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Sep 5, 2008
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I've played EVE for 5 months. I Get most of the fun out of this game during the corp-ops(Much like a party in any other hack 'n' slash). It's fun to go out with friends to fly fleet missions, etc. Everything Yathzee points out in this review is pretty much true. Doesn't bother me tho, there are much worse games out there.
 

Mistah Kurtz

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I play eve off and on once in a while, but i ususally get bored with it even before my month runs out and don't end up picking it up for another 3-4 months again. I think i'm pretty much done with it now, it takes too much time to accomplish anything and I'm not willing to invest any more money into a virtual life
 

SgtFlaman

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Oct 15, 2007
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Boy am I glad someone finally opened my eyes. When you get to the point that it takes a week or more to learn a skill, one must ask themselves 'why am I paying for this?"
 

Sigenrecht

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I disagree. As I said earlier, I think that the space simulator peaked with the development of Frontier: Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters, and for good reason. Apart from the Frontier series, few other space combat simulators have ever had Newtonian physics, and none apart from the Frontier series have it so accurate that Lagrangian points, geostationary orbit and actual relative movement are simulated (also, oblated stars. Oblated stars). Few other space combat simulators allow the player to actually accurately land on planets, without some sort of animation. If you want a "thinking man's game", the Newtonian physics present in Frontier will test your mind a lot more, and in realistic fashion, than the combat present in EVE Online, which fudges things terribly when it comes to realism.

Unfortunately, David Braben's constant insistence on making the Elite/Frontier games into the most groundbreaking experiences possible will prevent an MMO-capable Elite 4. That, and it would be completely unsaleable, because the Newtonian physics would throw nearly everybody off balance in a multiplayer game.
Really, throughout your entire post, you were laying down praise upon the Frontier series of games because of your opinion of it as the end-all space simulator, but to be honest, EVE isn't supposed to be taken seriously as a space simulator in the same sense a lot of games are, with physics systems like inertia, complete freedom and mobility in space, the kinetic force of being hit by a small tactical nuclear warhead radiating in the direction opposite to yours, and so on. There are certainly mathematical mechanics involved in it, for sure, but to go from point ABC in space to point XYZ in space is as simple (or limited) as right-clicking on it and telling your fantastically omnipresent thrusters in that direction (this isn't accounting for just double-clicking in the general direction you want to go).

What I meant by EVE being a thinking man's game is that you always have to be one step ahead of the curb to get ahead at all; you'll have to play the market spanning not only a system, but entire handfuls of the New Eden universe, prepare for ideal situations in which you'll be ambushed, ambushing, running, scouting, crippling, tanking, damaging, supporting, intercepting, etc. There's simply no other way to succeed but to plan ahead for all likely outcomes. You'll have to play friends and enemies like dogs, infiltrate establishments set by players and throw them down, and form alliances with people who you can depend on the not send a cruise missile up your sub-light engines every time yuo have the gall to turn the other way.
 

Sigenrecht

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guyy post=6.70442.697727 said:
Haha, that was great. Someone else finally thinks EVE is stupid. Once you get bored of its semi-flashy graphics, you realize there's not much else to it...

...well, besides all the incredibly complex leveling/equipment/weapons/ships/etc. system. Though, to me, that stuff is more annoying than fun.

If [a href="http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=27"]this[/a] ever comes out, I might actually try a space MMO for once; it's everything EVE should have been but isn't. Until then, I guess I'm stuck in the even smaller whiny city of people who hate EVE.
EVE doesn't -have- to be anything, because EVE is EVE, a thing entirely in and of itself, with the only expectations for it to live up to are those of the people who make the game (CCP). Infinity seems, while fascinating, HARDLY original.
 

nastykerm

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Aug 27, 2008
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insanelich post=6.70442.695883 said:
Q.E.D.

Plus, I played Eve for two weeks and go so caught up in it I wanted to buy a sub. Until I realized I spent more time waiting than gaming and that I wasn't going to find a corp worth anything in a million years in Minmatar 1.0 space.

I must admit I'm a bit confused now. If you spent most of the time waiting, what was it that made you get caught up in it?

Finding a good corp can be a challenge, with all the diversity in EVE. But truth to be told, the starter systems (1.0-0.5) isn't the best places to look. What you should have been looking for (at the forums etc) is corporations who are established in low sec. It instantly transforms the playing field into something completely different than what you might experience in safe, empire space.

Id also like to make an additional comment, and thats to refute what some posters have said about older players being more powerful etc. This is completely false. Somethingawful came to EVE and formed an alliance that pretty much carved a name for themselves since day one. In the beginning they flew frigates and cruisers with crap equipment yet they still managed to kill stuff, and they worked their way up the ladder in a short amount of time. They competed with some of the biggest and oldest alliances in the game.
 

KatsuExe

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Jul 31, 2008
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Personally I'm not a fan of MMOs. I could never get into them plus who likes to pay money monthly just to play a game? And it probably doesn't help that I hate chatting with other players online.
 

JonahNYC

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Mar 13, 2008
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guyy post=6.70442.697818 said:
JonahNYC post=6.70442.697751 said:
Old saying that a lot of children online don't get:

One man's meat is another man's poison.
It's not wrong to like EVE. I just don't. It's not worth my time or my money, let alone both; but if you think it's worth yours, go ahead and play it.

Also, a lot of people (including me) act unusually sarcastic and arrogant when posting in a ZP thread, for obvious reasons.
Again, there's a fine line between that and being a bully. Ben this time picks on a small, long-running MMO EVE Online, and seems to be viciously beating on one of the few MMOs that survive on fan loyalty, calling them supernerds, depicting them as fat and sweaty, and basically tossing Molotovs at them knowing they?ll never have a suitable response to his bullying. At least he didn?t imply the gamers were gay this time.
 

vlanitak

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Sep 4, 2008
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First of all: I did play EVE for a month, after a month I felt I didn't get into the game. That only says this: YOU WILL HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME FOR A LONG TIME AND GET ADDICTED TO IT, thats how you get into the game. I normaly get addicted to every Spacesim I try, that includes: X2, X3, Freespace 1 and 2, X-wing alliance, Rouge leader, Starlancer, Freelancer and more. When I do not get addicted to what many people call the greatest sapcesim ever that tells me: No this is not the game for me, I did not like it enough! or as with EVE: ******** HATE IT!!!!

Secondly: So you can't drive a battleship and cruiser with a joystick? The Void server for freelancer lets you fly the huge spaceships in Freelancer, and you can DAMN well fly those with a joystick!! www.voidserver.com

Oh and I was also addicted to Jumpgate.
 

nastykerm

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Aug 27, 2008
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vlanitak post=6.70442.698438 said:
I normaly get addicted to every Spacesim I try, that includes: X2, X3, Freespace 1 and 2, X-wing alliance, Rouge leader, Starlancer, Freelancer and more.

******** HATE IT!!!!

Secondly: So you can't drive a battleship and cruiser with a joystick? The Void server for freelancer lets you fly the huge spaceships in Freelancer, and you can DAMN well fly those with a joystick!! www.voidserver.com

Oh and I was also addicted to Jumpgate.



EVE *is not* a spacesim like freelancer or x-wing! You are comparing apples and remote controlls. I really wish people could have an educated opion on EVE before they rubbish it.
 

vlanitak

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Sep 4, 2008
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so.... it's a one of a kind game? It has it's own genre maybe?
Games with sapceships are normaly spacsims.
 

GaryH

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Sep 3, 2008
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I find it ridiculous just how many people are flinging "If it takes two weeks to be fun, then it's not fun." or similar. I just can't help but laugh at the trend for people to instantly whine about a game being "too linear" and as soon as a game which isn't linear at all is put in front of them they can't comprehend having to make their own decisions about what to do.

EVE is the polar opposite to those games which hold your hand; taking you from place to place and showing you precisely when, where and how to have fun that everyone hates, including Yahtzee, because they don't give you any sort of freedom or control.

EVE is far from perfect, I'll definitely admit that some polish would be preferred over yet another content update but that's not the debate here. The reason that people log into a 14 day trial and don't have fun for an entire two weeks is because they think that the game is going to grab their hand and point into the horizon, shouting "THE FUN IS THAT WAY!". It's not.

With EVE you have to make your own fun. Before you start shouting about "Why would I pay for a game where I have to make my own fun, the game should be fun in it's own right!"; that isn't what I mean. EVE doesn't have quests, levels or even a significant loot table like WoW. There are no raids to grind and epics to collect. There are no set PvP arenas that you can go to.

EVE gives you the freedom that everyone seems to be looking for in MMOs, but perhaps it gives you too much. The average gamer will be thrown out into the cold at the start of the trial going "what do I do?!" and will ultimately miss out because they think that they HAVE to sit and mine ore in their newbie system or do dull repetitive missions.

I have no mining skills and I have never done any missions past the ones in the tutorial and one or two level one missions. The fun in EVE is whatever you make of it, you make your own goals. As an example, I PVP almost exclusively in tech 1 frigates with tech 1 equipment. The sort of thing that even a new player with a 14 day trial account can afford with a few hours of mining, mission running, scavenging or pirating. The trick is that I have a small pack of friends in similar ships, each having fittings which complement each other. We can easily take out small groups of cruisers, battle cruisers and even the odd battleship. You can do this right off the bat, all you need is a few friends and someone to give you a little bit of advice about which skills do what. It's not WoW; the higher "level" players are not immune to the lower level ones and they can be taken out easily with careful planning. We can win because our ships are small and fast, thus difficult to hit with larger, slower guns; and most of our ships have bonuses to electronic warfare, allowing us to effectively cripple our target, disable his weapons and hold him there until we pop him. It is far from just targeting, activating weapons and seeing who dies first; it's just a shame that the learning curve is so immense. I understand why it could be daunting to most people.

The only other thing that I really have to say in my defense is that I don't really care whether anyone here likes EVE or not. It's not the best game in the world and it certainly isn't everyones cup of tea; but I like it and that is all that matters. The reason that I am defending it so enthusiastically is not because of some desire to convince you that I am right and your are all wrong. It's because I have had a great time playing EVE once I stopped trying to play it as a single player game and I see reviews such as this one who don't even give it a chance and I feel that those people are totally missing out of something which they could be enjoying as much as I have enjoyed it. It's not in defense of the game or of my hobby, if you played EVE in the way that I am describing it and still didn't like it then that's fine. I just don't like when people miss out, is all.

This, strangely, is the first time that Yahtzee hasn't given a game a fair review. What he has done here is like playing portal and trying to play it without portal gun. You've missed out on the whole point of the game. EVE is ABOUT the social aspect, and the teamwork you get from joining a corporation (just another name for a guild, nothing like a second job at all.)

Never mind though, it was funny and I suppose that's the point. I'm hardly going to stop tuning into zero punctuation over it.
 

nastykerm

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Aug 27, 2008
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vlanitak post=6.70442.698496 said:
so.... it's a one of a kind game? It has it's own genre maybe?
Games with sapceships are normaly spacsims.

Yes, you can easily say it has its own genre as there are no other games as complex or with the same mechanics as eve. By your logic, defender or space invaders is a space sim. If EVE is any type of sim, its a war sim as combat is more than just doing loops with your joystick. It involves industry, logistics, millitary intelligence, planning, coordination and execution.
 

vlanitak

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Sep 4, 2008
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Yes defender and alien invader are spacesims. they are maybe not the best spacesims, but they are still spacesims.

I will say that EVE is a combination of a spacesim and a gigantic war strategy game (a bit like the Hearts of Iron series which in my opinion is AWESOME) But as I decided to rethink the words I said before I have come to conclusion: I do not like that combination. The thing of mixing spacesims with extreme strategy is in my opinion a failure. Sorry for this but if it was up to me, which it is not, EVE would never excited.

Oh and I like the meaningless looping in spaceships TBH:D