Zero Punctuation: Fallout 3
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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There are small things but there are a lot of big things also.TerraMGP said:
Listen, I've sad its a "bad RPG" which it is, while its a pretty fun action/FPS with some RPG elements thrown in, really just should not have been named fallout 3 and just like "The Wastes" or "Fallout: Oblivion"
Also Beth doesn't make good RPGs anymore, how was some standards not even remotely realistic?
Its not that they don't make good RPGs anymore, its that they mix the RPG and FPS/action elements enough that it does not feel like the RPGs we are used to. Granted the system could still use some refinement and they could do with going back a bit more in complexity but I feel like they are trying to find A balance between their older and newer games. I will agree with everyone that they have problems with follow though on the main quests though. But if your looking at it as a pure RPG or mainly an RPG you are going to miss the boat because thats not the design intent.
As for unrealistic expectations Everyone expected what they thought Van bBurin would be. They wanted it to be Isometric, they wanted it to have everything the same as it was, and frankly they wanted Black Isle again. Any variation is going to upset people enough that they are going to call it bad. I still don't understand why people don't like oblivion overall but maybe thats why I'm still confused by anyone saying Fallout 3 didn't work.
Sometimes you have to judge a game by what it is, not what you expected it to be.
As for unrealistic expectations Everyone expected what they thought Van bBurin would be. They wanted it to be Isometric, they wanted it to have everything the same as it was, and frankly they wanted Black Isle again. Any variation is going to upset people enough that they are going to call it bad. I still don't understand why people don't like oblivion overall but maybe thats why I'm still confused by anyone saying Fallout 3 didn't work.
Sometimes you have to judge a game by what it is, not what you expected it to be.
Well as an RPG fan I can tell you I liked what they did. No the RPG elements are not as deep as one might hope but they are deeper than people give them credit for and work well. See the thing is I think of it in terms of having two diffrent DMs. Mass effect we can say is a rule-lawyering DM who just got off a kick with a couple of really bad Starwars D20 (Pre Saga) campaigns and decided to try something new. So He/She picked up a copy of D20 future tweaked the hell out of the rules and just went nuts, hence mass effect.
Oblivion and Bethesda are more like the DM who wants to play the original D&D where Elf is a class and wants you to Role play everything out with the statistics as a general guideline rather than the deciding factor. The kind of guy who is more than willing to let your fireball impact cause an avalanche that kills the ogre in spite of there not being a rule for it.
I personally enjoy both DM styles so to speak. Mass effect and games like it grant you alot more in the way of rules to lawyer and lord do I love that, but Fallout 3 has more immersion because I'm not checking those rules all the time. Yes I'm more or less buying feats, skill points and stat points but move beyond that and it feels more like those role plays where you just play a role. I like that too. Its hard to do with a video game though, and I think thats what Bathesda is trying to protect.
On that note it does make me sad though that they killed the Fallout D20 project. THAT one I am mad at them for.
Oblivion and Bethesda are more like the DM who wants to play the original D&D where Elf is a class and wants you to Role play everything out with the statistics as a general guideline rather than the deciding factor. The kind of guy who is more than willing to let your fireball impact cause an avalanche that kills the ogre in spite of there not being a rule for it.
I personally enjoy both DM styles so to speak. Mass effect and games like it grant you alot more in the way of rules to lawyer and lord do I love that, but Fallout 3 has more immersion because I'm not checking those rules all the time. Yes I'm more or less buying feats, skill points and stat points but move beyond that and it feels more like those role plays where you just play a role. I like that too. Its hard to do with a video game though, and I think thats what Bathesda is trying to protect.
On that note it does make me sad though that they killed the Fallout D20 project. THAT one I am mad at them for.
Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?sky14kemea said:it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...Tsuki Tanaka said:Did you like Oblivion?sky14kemea said:lmao, the first part really made me laugh
it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days
*looks at game*
hmm
Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.
To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P
I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.
it is indeed a step up from oblivion...
as for the expectations of fans... id say we just wanted an rpg... like the originals... they instead did an action adventure shooter game... with a touch of rpg on the side.
hence why fans are generally not impressed. like someone else said earlier. if it had a different name most fans would have been ok with it. but if you make a sequel to a game.. it has to be the same genre IMO. imagine if diablo 3 was an RTS. or a fps. would that not be dissapointing and confusing? whereas if they made 'diablo: shooty' and it was an FPS... people might be impressed.
as for the expectations of fans... id say we just wanted an rpg... like the originals... they instead did an action adventure shooter game... with a touch of rpg on the side.
hence why fans are generally not impressed. like someone else said earlier. if it had a different name most fans would have been ok with it. but if you make a sequel to a game.. it has to be the same genre IMO. imagine if diablo 3 was an RTS. or a fps. would that not be dissapointing and confusing? whereas if they made 'diablo: shooty' and it was an FPS... people might be impressed.
When The FUCK are you going 2 pod cast? It might show that you suport Apple but will we blame you?
Come to think of it, the storyline, writing and game mechanics do have a ton of holes.
The ratio of hostiles to civilians has been mentioned above and it's true, I hadn't really thought about it before but there are so many raiders, slavers, critters and super-mutants that realistically the good citizens of the capital wastelands wouldn't stand a chance.
Then there's the question of whese people even came from; in 200 years the entire wasteland has sprouted hundreds(thousands?) of adults (a vast percentage of which turn out evil) yet there are only around 30 children in the entire game world.
And where are the baby deathclaws/molerats?
Another poser is just how people have managed to live for 200 years in an environment where every drink of water and nibble of food causes radiation poisoning to the extent that it would result in death in about 3 months.
And where does the food even come from? 200 years of civilisation based on the post-apocalyptic remnants of a supermarket or two?
Why, as a super-genius engineer (100 Repair!) am I incapable of fixing any of the vehicles?
Why do I need to be a virtouso locksmith to get through a chain-link door that I could cut with a decently sharp blade?
Why can't I beat people with a wrench?
If an item is stolen and no-one is there to see it stolen, how does Three Dog know that my Karma level changes?
Why do I need parts from another Hunting Rifle to fix my Hunting Rifle but NPCs can just, (despite not owning any Hunting Rifles) fix them too?
Why can't I use Scrap Metal for making things?
Do I really want to eat a Salisbury Steak that's over 200 years old?
The much-touted "player choice" that amounts to one or two unique quests in the "very good/evil" range, and a vast majority of inherently neutral quests/situations where you just pick whether to be nice or mean.
The restriction on player housing and faction affiliation, we get two choices for our "home base" .. why can't I clear out a location and "claim" it as my home? Why can't I join the slavers/raiders/brotherhood and rise to be their leader?
Ok, so for the most part I'm on-board with the whole "suspension of disbelief in games" thing, but I don't know.. I kind of feel that, when you really take a look at it, F3 is a lot more limited than it wants us to think.
The ratio of hostiles to civilians has been mentioned above and it's true, I hadn't really thought about it before but there are so many raiders, slavers, critters and super-mutants that realistically the good citizens of the capital wastelands wouldn't stand a chance.
Then there's the question of whese people even came from; in 200 years the entire wasteland has sprouted hundreds(thousands?) of adults (a vast percentage of which turn out evil) yet there are only around 30 children in the entire game world.
And where are the baby deathclaws/molerats?
Another poser is just how people have managed to live for 200 years in an environment where every drink of water and nibble of food causes radiation poisoning to the extent that it would result in death in about 3 months.
And where does the food even come from? 200 years of civilisation based on the post-apocalyptic remnants of a supermarket or two?
Why, as a super-genius engineer (100 Repair!) am I incapable of fixing any of the vehicles?
Why do I need to be a virtouso locksmith to get through a chain-link door that I could cut with a decently sharp blade?
Why can't I beat people with a wrench?
If an item is stolen and no-one is there to see it stolen, how does Three Dog know that my Karma level changes?
Why do I need parts from another Hunting Rifle to fix my Hunting Rifle but NPCs can just, (despite not owning any Hunting Rifles) fix them too?
Why can't I use Scrap Metal for making things?
Do I really want to eat a Salisbury Steak that's over 200 years old?
The much-touted "player choice" that amounts to one or two unique quests in the "very good/evil" range, and a vast majority of inherently neutral quests/situations where you just pick whether to be nice or mean.
The restriction on player housing and faction affiliation, we get two choices for our "home base" .. why can't I clear out a location and "claim" it as my home? Why can't I join the slavers/raiders/brotherhood and rise to be their leader?
Ok, so for the most part I'm on-board with the whole "suspension of disbelief in games" thing, but I don't know.. I kind of feel that, when you really take a look at it, F3 is a lot more limited than it wants us to think.
good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tipTsuki Tanaka said:Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?sky14kemea said:it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...Tsuki Tanaka said:Did you like Oblivion?sky14kemea said:lmao, the first part really made me laugh
it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days
*looks at game*
hmm
Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.
To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P
I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*
Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?sky14kemea said:good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tipTsuki Tanaka said:Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?sky14kemea said:it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...Tsuki Tanaka said:Did you like Oblivion?sky14kemea said:lmao, the first part really made me laugh
it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days
*looks at game*
hmm
Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.
To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P
I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*
noTsuki Tanaka said:Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?sky14kemea said:good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tipTsuki Tanaka said:Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?sky14kemea said:it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...Tsuki Tanaka said:Did you like Oblivion?sky14kemea said:lmao, the first part really made me laugh
it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days
*looks at game*
hmm
Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.
To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P
I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*
i never had a SNES, i didnt get into gaming till i was 8, so its a little before my time XD
See thats just it, Some of the best D&D games I have ever had have been with DMs who just let you wander, who have little idea whats going on, who draw the map on the spot if they give a map at all and who really let the players decide what is going on. In my mind that feels alot more real, alot more interesting than having Goal X and being led along to it with a couple of detours. I disagree that Fallout does a bad job of being descriptive, its not as dark in some ways as 1 and 2 but frankly I think we all know that there is no way with today's standards that could be pulled off without hurting the industry as a whole.
Main plot story telling aside the game works well for what it is, and Personally I enjoy it as much as I enjoy Fallout 2. The play styles are different but that does not have to be a bad thing. I really think people need to try and objectively play 2 and 3 along side each other, or better yet all 3 at once. Most fans consider 1 better than 2 and 2 better than 3 just like with most game series. But personally while I would like some item descriptoins I think that for what it was and what it was designed to be 3 did its job and deserves its place as a fallout game.
And seriously I think more people need to play with a DM who makes everything up on the spot. Its a blast.
Main plot story telling aside the game works well for what it is, and Personally I enjoy it as much as I enjoy Fallout 2. The play styles are different but that does not have to be a bad thing. I really think people need to try and objectively play 2 and 3 along side each other, or better yet all 3 at once. Most fans consider 1 better than 2 and 2 better than 3 just like with most game series. But personally while I would like some item descriptoins I think that for what it was and what it was designed to be 3 did its job and deserves its place as a fallout game.
And seriously I think more people need to play with a DM who makes everything up on the spot. Its a blast.
That's my DM style, to pretty much let the players decide where they're going and what they're doing, and let them know the outcome. If only a game could truly simulate that..
I bought Fallout 3 the day it came out and I'm still playing it. I'm not rushing through it, I'm taking my time and exploring every area I can. Some days I would spend 10+ hours playing, before I realized that I needed food. In my opinion, a game that grabs your attention like that is rare. Oblivion never did that to me.
It has some flaws, and some shortcomings (as do all games) but all in all IMO it's a great game.
I bought Fallout 3 the day it came out and I'm still playing it. I'm not rushing through it, I'm taking my time and exploring every area I can. Some days I would spend 10+ hours playing, before I realized that I needed food. In my opinion, a game that grabs your attention like that is rare. Oblivion never did that to me.
It has some flaws, and some shortcomings (as do all games) but all in all IMO it's a great game.
Well, to suspend disbelief you could say that many of the people you should see are hidden away, like in other secure parts of Rivet City, or other floors of Tenpenny Tower, etc.Ilvaldyr said:
They just grow up really, really fast.Ilvaldyr said:
Well, there is ghoulification.. some of them are supposed to have existed before the war. Evolution may be too slow to explain radiation immunity but people with a higher tolerance would survive longer to have children who might share that tolerance..Ilvaldyr said:
Local fare like 'Strange Meat' and Mirelurk Cakes notwithstanding, think about how many supermarkets, corner stores, convenience stores, etc are probably in the DC area. Now if people knew there was a war coming, they might stockpile supplies, and those might have gone unused..Ilvaldyr said:
Because a vehicle in F3 would be too cool.Ilvaldyr said:
Well, it could be that you look guilty, and he's really good at reading people and how guilty they are.. or else he's Santa Claus and has a magic list. Take your pick.Ilvaldyr said:
This bugs me too, you can be far better in Repair than an NPC but they just 'fix' stuff.Ilvaldyr said:
You can. You can make money from Scrap Metal.Ilvaldyr said:
Preservatives are a scary thing, but hey, if it tastes good, who cares?Ilvaldyr said: