Zero Punctuation: Fallout 3

[Matey]

it is indeed a step up from oblivion...

as for the expectations of fans... id say we just wanted an rpg... like the originals... they instead did an action adventure shooter game... with a touch of rpg on the side.

hence why fans are generally not impressed. like someone else said earlier. if it had a different name most fans would have been ok with it. but if you make a sequel to a game.. it has to be the same genre IMO. imagine if diablo 3 was an RTS. or a fps. would that not be dissapointing and confusing? whereas if they made 'diablo: shooty' and it was an FPS... people might be impressed.

 

[The Aussie]

When The FUCK are you going 2 pod cast? It might show that you suport Apple but will we blame you?

 

[b4dsmllz]

it is indeed a step up from oblivion...

as for the expectations of fans... id say we just wanted an rpg... like the originals... they instead did an action adventure shooter game... with a touch of rpg on the side.

hence why fans are generally not impressed. like someone else said earlier. if it had a different name most fans would have been ok with it. but if you make a sequel to a game.. it has to be the same genre IMO. imagine if diablo 3 was an RTS. or a fps. would that not be dissapointing and confusing? whereas if they made 'diablo: shooty' and it was an FPS... people might be impressed.

that is quite true, the game is more like a sequel to Oblivion than Fallout, the game play, world design and people are almost identical to the ones in Oblivion, i still really liked the game though.

 

[Worm4Life]

Fallout 3 isn't more a sequel to Oblivion than Fallout. It's not based in Cyrodiil or anything.

The world design is basically "open world" so you could compare Farcry 2 to Oblivion if you wanted, and have a pretty strong argument.

 

[Ilvaldyr]

Come to think of it, the storyline, writing and game mechanics do have a ton of holes.

The ratio of hostiles to civilians has been mentioned above and it's true, I hadn't really thought about it before but there are so many raiders, slavers, critters and super-mutants that realistically the good citizens of the capital wastelands wouldn't stand a chance.

Then there's the question of whese people even came from; in 200 years the entire wasteland has sprouted hundreds(thousands?) of adults (a vast percentage of which turn out evil) yet there are only around 30 children in the entire game world.

And where are the baby deathclaws/molerats?

Another poser is just how people have managed to live for 200 years in an environment where every drink of water and nibble of food causes radiation poisoning to the extent that it would result in death in about 3 months.

And where does the food even come from? 200 years of civilisation based on the post-apocalyptic remnants of a supermarket or two?

Why, as a super-genius engineer (100 Repair!) am I incapable of fixing any of the vehicles?

Why do I need to be a virtouso locksmith to get through a chain-link door that I could cut with a decently sharp blade?

Why can't I beat people with a wrench?

If an item is stolen and no-one is there to see it stolen, how does Three Dog know that my Karma level changes?

Why do I need parts from another Hunting Rifle to fix my Hunting Rifle but NPCs can just, (despite not owning any Hunting Rifles) fix them too?

Why can't I use Scrap Metal for making things?

Do I really want to eat a Salisbury Steak that's over 200 years old?

The much-touted "player choice" that amounts to one or two unique quests in the "very good/evil" range, and a vast majority of inherently neutral quests/situations where you just pick whether to be nice or mean.

The restriction on player housing and faction affiliation, we get two choices for our "home base" .. why can't I clear out a location and "claim" it as my home? Why can't I join the slavers/raiders/brotherhood and rise to be their leader?

Ok, so for the most part I'm on-board with the whole "suspension of disbelief in games" thing, but I don't know.. I kind of feel that, when you really take a look at it, F3 is a lot more limited than it wants us to think.

 

[sky14kemea]

lmao, the first part really made me laugh

it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days

Did you like Oblivion?

it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...
*looks at game*
hmm

Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?

Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.

To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P

I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.

good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tip
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*

 

[Tsuki Tanaka]

lmao, the first part really made me laugh

it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days

Did you like Oblivion?

it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...
*looks at game*
hmm

Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?

Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.

To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P

I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.

good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tip
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*

Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?

 

[sky14kemea]

lmao, the first part really made me laugh

it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days

Did you like Oblivion?

it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...
*looks at game*
hmm

Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?

Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.

To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P

I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.

good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tip
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*

Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?

no i never had a SNES, i didnt get into gaming till i was 8, so its a little before my time XD

 

[Snotnarok]

Stupid question, does Fallout 3 have a DRM or Securerom? I heard it does and bad things about the "protection" I don't want to spend money on a game they'll only let me install a few times before I have to get it again.

 

[noodleboy]

I really didnt like Oblivion lol .. I just couldnt get into it. it felt so glitchy and unrealsitic but maybe i didnt give it a chance.
so i dont know if im goin to liek fallout.. but i might still buy it though...

 

[TerraMGP]

See thats just it, Some of the best D&D games I have ever had have been with DMs who just let you wander, who have little idea whats going on, who draw the map on the spot if they give a map at all and who really let the players decide what is going on. In my mind that feels alot more real, alot more interesting than having Goal X and being led along to it with a couple of detours. I disagree that Fallout does a bad job of being descriptive, its not as dark in some ways as 1 and 2 but frankly I think we all know that there is no way with today's standards that could be pulled off without hurting the industry as a whole.

Main plot story telling aside the game works well for what it is, and Personally I enjoy it as much as I enjoy Fallout 2. The play styles are different but that does not have to be a bad thing. I really think people need to try and objectively play 2 and 3 along side each other, or better yet all 3 at once. Most fans consider 1 better than 2 and 2 better than 3 just like with most game series. But personally while I would like some item descriptoins I think that for what it was and what it was designed to be 3 did its job and deserves its place as a fallout game.

And seriously I think more people need to play with a DM who makes everything up on the spot. Its a blast.

 

[Tygerml]

That's my DM style, to pretty much let the players decide where they're going and what they're doing, and let them know the outcome. If only a game could truly simulate that..

I bought Fallout 3 the day it came out and I'm still playing it. I'm not rushing through it, I'm taking my time and exploring every area I can. Some days I would spend 10+ hours playing, before I realized that I needed food. In my opinion, a game that grabs your attention like that is rare. Oblivion never did that to me.

It has some flaws, and some shortcomings (as do all games) but all in all IMO it's a great game.

 

[Tygerml]

Come to think of it, the storyline, writing and game mechanics do have a ton of holes.

The ratio of hostiles to civilians has been mentioned above and it's true, I hadn't really thought about it before but there are so many raiders, slavers, critters and super-mutants that realistically the good citizens of the capital wastelands wouldn't stand a chance.

Then there's the question of whese people even came from; in 200 years the entire wasteland has sprouted hundreds(thousands?) of adults (a vast percentage of which turn out evil) yet there are only around 30 children in the entire game world.

Well, to suspend disbelief you could say that many of the people you should see are hidden away, like in other secure parts of Rivet City, or other floors of Tenpenny Tower, etc.

And where are the baby deathclaws/molerats?

They just grow up really, really fast.

Another poser is just how people have managed to live for 200 years in an environment where every drink of water and nibble of food causes radiation poisoning to the extent that it would result in death in about 3 months.

Well, there is ghoulification.. some of them are supposed to have existed before the war. Evolution may be too slow to explain radiation immunity but people with a higher tolerance would survive longer to have children who might share that tolerance..

And where does the food even come from? 200 years of civilisation based on the post-apocalyptic remnants of a supermarket or two?

Local fare like 'Strange Meat' and Mirelurk Cakes notwithstanding, think about how many supermarkets, corner stores, convenience stores, etc are probably in the DC area. Now if people knew there was a war coming, they might stockpile supplies, and those might have gone unused..

Why, as a super-genius engineer (100 Repair!) am I incapable of fixing any of the vehicles?

Because a vehicle in F3 would be too cool.

If an item is stolen and no-one is there to see it stolen, how does Three Dog know that my Karma level changes?

Well, it could be that you look guilty, and he's really good at reading people and how guilty they are.. or else he's Santa Claus and has a magic list. Take your pick.

Why do I need parts from another Hunting Rifle to fix my Hunting Rifle but NPCs can just, (despite not owning any Hunting Rifles) fix them too?

This bugs me too, you can be far better in Repair than an NPC but they just 'fix' stuff.

Why can't I use Scrap Metal for making things?

You can. You can make money from Scrap Metal.

Do I really want to eat a Salisbury Steak that's over 200 years old?

Preservatives are a scary thing, but hey, if it tastes good, who cares?

 

[TerraMGP]

The resistance to radiation, like many other things, was explained in Fallout 2.

I am beginning to wonder if alot of the plot holes people see are things they simply don't remember or did not pick up from the other fallout games. As for the lack of people its somewhat apparent that unlike Western cities that somehow got out of things a bit more intact the bulk of DC was reduced to small specific colonies. In truth I see this as MORE how it would be after a nuclear war. This is exactly what I am talking about though. Your playing a game in a postapocalyptic wasteland where you spent time in a specially established vault designed for the sole purpose of keeping sample humans under specific observation as opposed to, I don't know, Saving as many as possible because the leaders of the US had some plan extending hundreds of years beyond their lifetimes to strike out at china.

I only ask people to start applying the same scrutiny to the other games as they do to 3 instead of bashing it because it departs from the comfortable norms.

 

[inthefade]

Very funny. I haven't played it yet, but I kinda knew it would just be an Oblivion clone with a fallout skin on it... Can't believe they didn't fix the horrifying stone-stare when the characters talk to you. When my roommates were in the same room while I played Oblivion they would laugh their asses off at how freaky and unnatural those conversations were. Is it really that hard to make the characters look casual in conversations, instead of framing them like you're taking a terrible portrait?
Well this makes me not want to play the game; Oblivion was fun for about 10 hours, and then I realized that it was just a huge waste of time.

 

[geldonyetich]

I loved the review, I loved the game, but I've gotta say the ending sucks [http://dsob.wordpress.com/2008/11/01/fallout-3s-ending-sucks/]. It deflates the rest of the game so incredibly that it goes from a 9.5/10 game to a 6 from the ending alone. A pity that didn't make it into Yahtzee's review.

To anyone still enjoying this game, I advise holding off on doing the main quest until you're completely bored of wandering the wasteland. Then, when you're smacked with the wet-mackerel of the ending, you'll have lost nothing.

 

[Vromnir]

Its a Fallout game, so look at it from a Fallout point of view.

No point since this game sucks from a Fallout point of view. No, scratch that. This game is not bad. It's wrong.

EDIT: BTW if FO3 is really better than Oblivion in every way, then I have absolutely no reason to try Oblivion.

Ok then, don't try Oblivion, I stopped playing it after I got Fallout 3, you are right about that part.

But from the way you were talking, it sounds like you were expecting Fallout 3 to be an abomination to every nostalgic memory you ever had about the Fallout series. If you expected it to be bad, of course you would disregard any good things about it, and immediatly search as hard as you could for evey single bad thing about it.

I'll run a couple of pros and cons of the game, in case you missed them:

Pros:

The V.A.T.S. System, which was an enormous help seeing that it was never supposed to be a shooter.

A realistic setting, in which you really feel like the world was nuked 200 years ago, and the remaining survivors are a reflection of that; most of them have given up hope of anything ever being nice again, others have completly lost their minds, and the remainder are either strugling to survive, or have turned to slaving or being a raider.

The voice acting was convincing, it didn't just sound like they were reading off of scripts; it sounded like they were really into what they were saying and that that is how a real person would sound if they were in that kind of situation.

Cons:

Some people have the tendancy to die for no apparent reason, or to dissappear completly. I've had this happen to me a number of times with Walace, the person who runs the water purification plant, to a great amount of fustration on my part.

The slow-mo close ups of the V.A.T.S. System, which don't seem to realize that i just want to kill the enemy im fighting, and move onto the next one.

The ending, which was the biggest flaw of the entier game, in my opinion. No matter which option you choose, the game ends.

All in all, if you can overlook the ending with all the side quests avaliable, I think that Fallout 3 is a very good game.

However, if someone here can come up with a solid argument of its flaws outwieghing its good points, ill be glad to listen.(Yes that's a challenge!)

 

[Tsuki Tanaka]

lmao, the first part really made me laugh

it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days

Did you like Oblivion?

it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...
*looks at game*
hmm

Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?

Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.

To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P

I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.

good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tip
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*

Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?

no i never had a SNES, i didnt get into gaming till i was 8, so its a little before my time XD

It was actually called the Power Glove, and was released with the NES. It's kind of like a primitive Wii-mote, but not really.

Look it up.

Nintendo, it seems, has always had a penchant for weird controllers and accessories. xD

 

[TerraMGP]

lmao, the first part really made me laugh

it sounds interesting, but im not sure its worth the money, because i get bored really easily and if its monotonous then ill probably forget it in about 2 days

Did you like Oblivion?

it was ok, but honestly i never finished it...
*looks at game*
hmm

Well, how much you enjoyed Oblivion will probably determine the extent of your enjoyment with Fallout 3. The game is similar, but does enough that it distinguishes itself and stands out from among the crowd. Does that make sense?

Calling Fallout 3 "Oblivion with guns" really does the game an injustice, because it's much more than that.

To be honest, I never got around to finishing Oblivion, either, but I beat the shit out of Fallout 3. They really smoothed out a lot of the issues that were present in the engine Oblivion. =P

I'd probably rent it first, and see how you like it.

good idea, i probably will rent it first, thanks for the tip
woo! *gets gaming gloves on, but not really*

Speaking of gaming gloves, do you remember those weird glove things they made for the SNES?

no i never had a SNES, i didnt get into gaming till i was 8, so its a little before my time XD

It was actually called the Power Glove, and was released with the NES. It's kind of like a primitive Wii-mote, but not really.

Look it up.

Nintendo, it seems, has always had a penchant for weird controllers and accessories. xD

And thats what makes them good. They are willing to try things instead of just pumping out modernized rehashing of how systems have always been made or tacking on REAL gimmicks (A wiimote which changes how gameplay works is not a gimmic, just underutalized by developers. Adding an MP3 player function to, say, a PSP IS a gimmick as it has no effect on gameplay)

Sadly with the DSi coming out I see some people at nintendo jumping on a very bad bandwagon.

 

[Lycanfan]

Well of course seemed he to like this game, which is essentially the same as it's predecessor (i.e. Oblivion), and basically called it an improvement over the last game. Whereas Fable 2, a game that actually improved upon it's predecessor and added a whole plethora of new things he all but dubbed as "the same as the 1st game but with a graphics upgrade." Perhaps it was because Fallout 3 is basically a FPS with a RPG system tacked on as opposed to Fable 2 which is just a strait RPG.