Zero Punctuation: Mailbag Showdown

[Hudson_McDoogle]

Fucking brilliant!

To all the fanboys who bitched about the SSBB review, have a cry and get over it.
Seriously.

Balls.

 

[xanrethan]

So has anything really been decided? It'd be great if we could somehow objectively measure the changes caused around a wide audience after viewing the SSBB review, and seeing how many people exactly were A) outraged, B) laughing their asses off, C) Viewing Yahtzee for the first time.

I'd love to see some sort of registered users per day statistic, I think people may just see a bit of a spike 3 weeks ago.

My own takeaway from the whole ordeal: A mediocre party game was trashed and fans tried weakly to rationalize their purchase by either discrediting Yahtzee (though he has not made any claims to his own skill, instead, lets his sharp wit do the talking for him) or trying to assert their opinion on the good aspects of SSBB in some malformed hope this might superimpose itself upon Yahtzee's opinion. This led to much drama and now this, which is only fueling the fanboy fire.

Have i encapsulated the gist of all 1500 posts without reading them? Or am I missing something? :3

 

[MattDark]

This is perfect for proof on how bad fanboys can be.

Ive seen so many people call others Trolls or Flame-Baiters, just because they dont think a game is the best thing since utterly butterly. These people seem to think opinion is reserved for what your favourite character/stage/attack is, and that everyone loves the game, no matter what.

I think Brawl has highlighted this, due to the sheer amount of people who have praised it, so when someone has a genuine opinion and can see a problem or a flaw, the fanboys just pounce on them, trying to banish it to hell like some undead spawn of satan.

But Ive seen this plenty of times, not just from Nintendo fanboys. 360 fanboys (Especially Halo) and PS3 fanboys (Most exclusives) can be just as bad.

 

[CheshireChaz]

Another great rant! lol @ the fanboys
They shouldn't come on here if they're ThaT sensitive. Believe it or not -games might be in for some harsh feedback if they appear on this site. -So dont look so dam surprised!!

 

[Hudson_McDoogle]

I agree with xanrethan on that.

 

[ridik_ulass]

played,
i can't wait for your gta4 review yet i want it now....:-(

ps ,enjoy your censored australian version :-(

 

[xanrethan]

Yahtzee's a cool guy, eh writes reviews and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[xanrethan]

But Ive seen this plenty of times, not just from Nintendo fanboys. 360 fanboys (Especially Halo) and PS3 fanboys (Most exclusives) can be just as bad.

But we weren't. :3

 

[xanrethan]

Interesting bit of trivia here. Of the last 21 posts, 11 of them were stuff like "You're right Yahtzee, brawl is shit and Nintendo Fanboys suck". Interesting from a forum that is supposedly Inhabitted by rabid Nintendo Fanboys.

Interesting bit of trivia here. Best way to get the gist of any large group is a random sample, not a continuous section. The larger the sample, the more relevant the data!

 

[Uszi]

He doesn't want fanboys around, he's made that abundantly clear.

Yahtzee's fanbase consists of people who are tired of ignorant fanboys infesting the internet, and who enjoy seeing them get their asses handed to them.

Incorrect. Yahtzee's fan base consists of Yahtzee fan boys, who seem to like to attack other fan boys for whatever it is they are fans of. Which seems to be the very nature of fan-boydom itself:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanboy

You sir, fail. Yahtzee's fanbase cannot be tired of fan boys if they are a bunch of fan boys themselves!

Are you honestly so naive that you think anyone even CARES about your opinion on a videogame? A word of advice: they don't.

Are you honestly so naive that you think anyone even CARES about your opinion on their posts?
A word of advice: they don't.

 

[trlkly]

I'll give this review a 7.

No one will probably notice this, but I think this comment was hilarious. If lindsay is a girl, I'll bow down and grovel at her feet. A guy? Well, I guess, maybe we could play a game together?

ETA: oops, my bad. I forgot to actually say something about the review (and it was one, just not of a game). I like these sort of "talk back to the community" things. Also, I was glad to actually read some fanboy comments, as I stayed away from the SSBB thread when I realized how long it was in such a short time.

 

[g31st]

My own takeaway from the whole ordeal: A mediocre party game was trashed and fans tried weakly to rationalize their purchase by either discrediting Yahtzee (though he has not made any claims to his own skill, instead, lets his sharp wit do the talking for him) or trying to assert their opinion on the good aspects of SSBB in some malformed hope this might superimpose itself upon Yahtzee's opinion. This led to much drama and now this, which is only fueling the fanboy fire.

Have i encapsulated the gist of all 1500 posts without reading them? Or am I missing something? :3

That's a fairly good assessment of the situation except for two things. Regardless of whether Brawl is mediocre or not, it isn't just a party game. It can be a party game if it's set up in a certain way, but it turns into a very deep fighter if you set it up a different way. In other words, it's versatile. The huge tournament community set up around Melee, the previous game in the series, should be enough evidence for anyone that the game's depth goes far beyond a simple party game. There are plenty of Youtube videos of matches between pros, and the things they do are far beyond anything a beginning player could hope to do.

Secondly, many of the people who dislike Brawl have never played it. Their hate seems to stem more from the fact that it says "Nintendo" on it than from any of the legitimate flaws the game actually has. In the same vein, Yahtzee played the game and gave it a bad review. People aren't pissed that he didn't like it; they're pissed that he went on to say, "Not only is this a bad game, only extremely ignorant people will like this game. Since the game has no other redeeming features, liking it is evidence that you're a fanboy. Not liking it is evidence of enlightenment."

People are pissed because (in general) they don't like being insulted. Yahtzee's review lumps the people who like Brawl as a legitimate fighting game in with the fanboys that everyone is so quick to disparage. It doesn't create a middle ground where people can agree to disagree, and that's why people are pissed off.

 

[trlkly]

That's a fairly good assessment of the situation except for two things. Regardless of whether Brawl is mediocre or not, it isn't just a party game. It can be a party game if it's set up in a certain way, but it turns into a very deep fighter if you set it up a different way. In other words, it's versatile. The huge tournament community set up around Melee, the previous game in the series, should be enough evidence for anyone that the game's depth goes far beyond a simple party game. There are plenty of Youtube videos of matches between pros, and the things they do are far beyond anything a beginning player could hope to do.

Secondly, many of the people who dislike Brawl have never played it. Their hate seems to stem more from the fact that it says "Nintendo" on it than from any of the legitimate flaws the game actually has. In the same vein, Yahtzee played the game and gave it a bad review. People aren't pissed that he didn't like it; they're pissed that he went on to say, "Not only is this a bad game, only extremely ignorant people will like this game. Since the game has no other redeeming features, liking it is evidence that you're a fanboy. Not liking it is evidence of enlightenment."

People are pissed because (in general) they don't like being insulted. Yahtzee's review lumps the people who like Brawl as a legitimate fighting game in with the fanboys that everyone is so quick to disparage. It doesn't create a middle ground where people can agree to disagree, and that's why people are pissed off.

I've never understood why people such as yourself read so much into his reviews. He didn't even discuss those of you who have legitimate gripes. He just found his mailbag full of hilarious non-arguments, and, since he wasn't quite ready with the GTA:IV review, he thought, what the heck. I'll let other people enjoy my fun

If you will actually take the time to go back through the "review archives", you'll find that Yahtzee often did listen to people. He's all for improving his craft, if he gets legitimate feedback. He just doesn't make it too obvious, or it would hurt his persona. But he does listen. I mean, he never did that FMV thing again, did he?

 

[g31st]

But Ive seen this plenty of times, not just from Nintendo fanboys. 360 fanboys (Especially Halo) and PS3 fanboys (Most exclusives) can be just as bad.

But we weren't. :3

If you're talking about the Halo 3 review, you also weren't insulted repeatedly for liking the game. That review tore the game apart by pointing out its actual flaws. The Brawl review "tore" the game apart by calling anyone who likes it enough to get good at it a cat-ear-wearing fanboy. I can almost guarantee that there wouldn't have been 1500 comments if the Brawl review had been a review of the game's flaws instead of the game's fanbase.

 

[Uszi]

I think my cousins put it best when they said, "It's a fun game, but it has a steep learning curve." As such, without playing at someones house, who has everything unlocked, who knows what they are doing, who can help you out, then the game is doomed to fail. Especially because Nintendo seems to try and justify rehashing the game by just making it more and more chaotic each generation.

Er, but I also think Mr. Forsooth said it best when he said,

This week's video is not about Brawl, but rather all the angry fanboys who responded to Yahtzee after the review for Brawl. Granted, I'm sure some of the fanboys had valid reasons for why the review wasn't up to par, which weren't included in the video, and another rant about hatemail is not the review we all wanted to see, but it was funny and will bide us over until next week. At the very least, this week's episode was filler. If you didn't like it, treat it as such. If you have an opinion on the game itself, post in the other massive thread.

Even if I didn't like this review, and I did, I'd be happy that Yahtzee didn't rush a game for his review this week, and is instead fiddling around with GTA IV. The game is huge, and I'm sure it would be difficult to cram it into one week. And as filler, a rant in reply to hatemail is always hillarious. Yahtzee seemed to be channeling Maddox this week.

 

[agerdemon]

The amount people care about one game is hilarious. It's like football (soccer to yanks) you are hated by someone no matter what side you are on! (hated is a strong word I know)

 

[Doug]

My own takeaway from the whole ordeal: A mediocre party game was trashed and fans tried weakly to rationalize their purchase by either discrediting Yahtzee (though he has not made any claims to his own skill, instead, lets his sharp wit do the talking for him) or trying to assert their opinion on the good aspects of SSBB in some malformed hope this might superimpose itself upon Yahtzee's opinion. This led to much drama and now this, which is only fueling the fanboy fire.

Have i encapsulated the gist of all 1500 posts without reading them? Or am I missing something? :3

That's a fairly good assessment of the situation except for two things. Regardless of whether Brawl is mediocre or not, it isn't just a party game. It can be a party game if it's set up in a certain way, but it turns into a very deep fighter if you set it up a different way. In other words, it's versatile. The huge tournament community set up around Melee, the previous game in the series, should be enough evidence for anyone that the game's depth goes far beyond a simple party game. There are plenty of Youtube videos of matches between pros, and the things they do are far beyond anything a beginning player could hope to do.

Secondly, many of the people who dislike Brawl have never played it. Their hate seems to stem more from the fact that it says "Nintendo" on it than from any of the legitimate flaws the game actually has. In the same vein, Yahtzee played the game and gave it a bad review. People aren't pissed that he didn't like it; they're pissed that he went on to say, "Not only is this a bad game, only extremely ignorant people will like this game. Since the game has no other redeeming features, liking it is evidence that you're a fanboy. Not liking it is evidence of enlightenment."

People are pissed because (in general) they don't like being insulted. Yahtzee's review lumps the people who like Brawl as a legitimate fighting game in with the fanboys that everyone is so quick to disparage. It doesn't create a middle ground where people can agree to disagree, and that's why people are pissed off.

Ok, lets leave the issue of whether or not brawl is good or bad - its all personal and subjective. I do have to say that you've read wayyyyyy to much into the last statement he made on the SSBB - he says IF you are a fanboy of Nintendo, you WILL then enjoy it irregardless of whatever the game is like. I.e. A => B, not B => A. He's not saying IF you like SSBB, your a fanboy.

Anywho... I wonder if the post count here will exceed the SSBB one?

 

[Dectilon]

"Secondly, many of the people who dislike Brawl have never played it."

That's true for any game, but no smoke without fire...

I've played it, and my 2-sentence review would be: A lot of game for your money, but you're likely to get bored before you've managed to unlock everything.

"The huge tournament community set up around Melee, the previous game in the series, should be enough evidence for anyone that the game's depth goes far beyond a simple party game"

Stop right there. Any game with a the smallest bit of skill or excitment involved can become a tournament game. Just take Poker for instance : P I find it far more likely that a large number of people had fun with a game, and that to continue having fun with it they would have to seek out good enough opposition. Tournaments start that way.

 

[ElArabDeMagnifico]

E-mail him more! Do it! WE NEED MORE OF THESE!

(See Yahtzee, you give us ANY attention, and it brings you more misery.)

 

[g31st]

I've never understood why people such as yourself read so much into his reviews. He didn't even discuss those of you who have legitimate gripes.

You're correct. The fact that he didn't discuss any of the legitimate gripes with his review might not have been so bad if he hadn't said at the very beginning of his "showdown" that he would respond to some of the "slightly more valid arguments" that people had had. There were no valid arguments in his review. He chose emails that made the so-called Brawl Defenders look stupid. I hoped for a bit better from him, but wasn't surprised that he didn't own up to any of the legitimate complaints people had.

He just found his mailbag full of hilarious non-arguments, and, since he wasn't quite ready with the GTA:IV review, he thought, what the heck. I'll let other people enjoy my fun

I'm not sure if you read the forum thread which resulted from his actual Brawl review. Since I don't have access to his email, I will never actually know what was in his inbox, but there were so many legitimate gripes in that forum thread that I'll bet his mailbag was full of a lot more than just "hilarious non-arguments". To posit that there wasn't a single email in his entire inbox with a legitimate point would be stupid, yet he didn't address any of the valid arguments in his actual "showdown".

If you will actually take the time to go back through the "review archives", you'll find that Yahtzee often did listen to people. He's all for improving his craft, if he gets legitimate feedback. He just doesn't make it too obvious, or it would hurt his persona. But he does listen. I mean, he never did that FMV thing again, did he?

I've watched practically every video he has on the Escapist website. I haven't read any text reviews, so if you're talking about those, I don't have any comments to make. I will say this, though: The gripes that people have with his Brawl review have very little to do with him "improving his craft". The reason that people are pissed off is that he didn't perform his craft in the first place when he reviewed Brawl. People expected a review of the game, and got a review of Nintendo fanboys instead.

What's more, it wasn't just a review of fanboys. Using his review, he neatly lumped the people who enjoy Brawl as a deep fighting game and the people who enjoy Brawl out of loyalty to Nintendo in the same group and labeled them all "ignorant". It was insulting, plain and simple. Before you tell me that Yahtzee entertains people using insults, understand that there is a difference between trashing a game based on its actual flaws and trashing a game because of a predisposition you have towards its audience.