Zero Punctuation: Mailbag Showdown

[MercurySteam]

I love all of Yahtzee's reviews for the simple reason that he can make any game look however he wants it to be. I mean, I love the Halo series and the reason I didn't personally (attempt to) crucify Yahtzee cause of his review on Halo 3 was because I know all that he said was true. The only thing more loyal then a person who worships a game, is someone who worships a game, but isnt afraid to say that it has its flaws. All those people who sent Yahtzee the hate mail were not these kind of people. Yahtzee reviews alot of the popular games and doesnt give them many compliments (kinda reminds me of my dad who is also British). But then again I myself never expected half these games to turn the universe around (ok well maybe Halo 3). As well as putting the funniest Zero Puctuation episodes on my PSP, I put on the ones that review games that i have, solely so i can say to myself, "Yes, i was there and i totally agree".

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

There's always Group A and always Group B.

Most of the people here are in Group C. A's and B's get banzored very quickly.

 

[wowthisnamesucks]

Okay, here's your claim. Now, what points were illegitimate? Were every single one illegitimate? And most people? I think it's been claimed that the "Yahtzee fanbois" outnumbered the SSBB fanbois on this forum. He played the game and said what he didn't like about it.

"The only so good you can get is by slapping your palm against it [the controller] like a circus seal."

Well, he did mention the repetitiveness of the single-player, something you said he didn't claim. And speaking of claims, here's another one. What did he "make up"? You're calling him out on that. So, point out what he made up. Address each point, and don't resort to ad hominems, false dichotomies, and other tactics of bad arguments. Such fallacies rank right up there with the "No it isn't!" aspect of the Argument Clinic from the Monty Python skit.

I didn't say he didn't mention a bad single player, but it was a minor aside, and the meat of his review was that it was a 0 depth button-mashing fighting game.

I played the game for four hours at least. I beat plenty of my opponent by randomly mashing buttons. Maybe a poll to find out how long people have played the game, and their opinoin of whether or not it is just a "button masher" would be best needed to back up this claim. In my personal experience, the game is a "button master". This is the conclusion I came to after my 4+ hours of playing it on my nephew's Wii. If I came to that conclusion, I don't think I can fault others for coming to the same. I will state this as a personal opinion, and one that is shared by others who have played the game. Do I think this is a valid argument? Nope. And neither is the claim that "anyone who has played it more than ten minutes can say..." that you make.

Consider this: if nothing else, when your opponent strikes you, would you be at advantage to be close to an edge, or near the center? Being close to an edge gives you a much higher chance of being KO'd. Ignoring all other aspects of the game, positioning is crucial, and can't be done by random button pressing. Again- there is a huge hardcore crowd with smash brothers, look up some videos on youtube or something.

Again, details would be nicer. It would show that you did more than just give it a cursory glance. Take each one of Yahtzee's claims and back it up. Give us points that we can look out for when we go back and watch the video again. This is what fosters debate. It encourages the exchange of information.

"Because I think there's something wrong with a game where you can spend 15 years learning every slightest nuance and still lose to someone randomly smashing buttons." People have tournaments for serious cash over this game, they play it like a job. Saying that it's a button masher just isn't true, no, it isn't opinion because an experienced and skilled player will always beat an inexperienced and unskilled player. Saying whether you think it's good or bad is an opinion.

He's being paid, which means he has an employer. His employer would be the one to review his work and make the decision on whether or not Yahtzee is "doing his job". If the deemed his work detrimental to their bottom line, would not Yahtzee be unemployed now? After all, he's providing a marketable entertainment. Let the market do its job. And while he may be paid, are we paying to view his stuff? Wait, no... we're not...

Fair enough, but how about we call it "ranting" instead of "reviewing" for the sake of accuracy.

Going back, he says that he's "sampling a few of the hate mails", and even even offers to respond to some of the more valid arguments. Doesn't seem like he's making any kind of association there. That's within the first 27 seconds of the mailbag review. Nowhere does he say that people who like SSBB are fanboys. I've just gone back and watched it twice, looking for the points you make. He says he's only reviewing the hate-mail, and responding to them. He doesn't say "This is why people who like SSBB are fanboys." Hell, he never implies it. What he is saying that those who took the time to write hate mail over a review of a game they liked are fanboys. The fanboys are the ones who wrote those letters with atrocious spelling errors and insults and flawed logic.

"A sampling of the few" implies that it's a representation of the whole.

 

[MercurySteam]

I love all of Yahtzee's reviews for the simple reason that he can make any game look however he wants it to be. I mean, I love the Halo series and the reason I didn't personally (attempt to) crucify Yahtzee cause of his review on Halo 3 was because I know all that he said was true. The only thing more loyal then a person who worships a game, is someone who worships a game, but isnt afraid to say that it has its flaws. All those people who sent Yahtzee the hate mail were not these kind of people. Yahtzee reviews alot of the popular games and doesnt give them many compliments (kinda reminds me of my dad who is also British). But then again I myself never expected half these games to turn the universe around (ok well maybe Halo 3). As well as putting the funniest Zero Puctuation episodes on my PSP, I put on the ones that review games that i have, solely so i can say to myself, "Yes, i was there and i totally agree".

Its really not all that simple to try and compare the Halo 3 review to the Brawl one. For one thing, he admitted that there would be a problem in his viewpoint, and didn't insult the games fans while saying this. He made sure to say that he wasn't calling the game completely awful, but just average for the current FPS market. Whereas he implied that Brawl was a bane upon humanity, and all the problems he took with it seemed entirely negligible, fairly hypocritical, largely to do with him or easily avoidable, and made certain to insult the games fans, as opposed to possibly admitting that he was not the ideal candidate to review this game. The two situations are only similar because of the subject material.

Ok you are right that the SSBB review and the Halo 3 review were different, but im just using them as an example. Lots of my friends are looking forward to SSBB coming out in Australia (some of them still play the original game on the Project64 emulator), hell one of them even has it, but I have never heard nor read anything saying that it is a game that could give all those who declare games like, Halo 3, GOW, CS, or GTA4 mediocore, a run for their money. It would be understandable if Yahtzee gave a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, good game a bad review (this kind of game does not exist yet), but the fact is, SSBB isnt classified as a game that could shake the Earth. But then again, if people cant admit that their favourte game/s arent perfect then that's their problem and i recommend that that get the fuck away from Yahtzee and Zero Punctuation.

 

[Archon666]

Yahtzee you are the man!
hope those bastereds get the mesage

 

[Heroic One]

Wow, the Proclaimers. I didn't think anyone remembered they were alive.

 

[Doug]

Brawl Review

our death matches could probably have been faithfully recreated by hurdling the controllers down a flight of stairs

I believe he was making reference to him and his friends button mashing without a clue what they were doing - i.e. random mashs. So, not bad controls, they just didn't know what they were doing, heh

 

[MercurySteam]

I love all of Yahtzee's reviews for the simple reason that he can make any game look however he wants it to be. I mean, I love the Halo series and the reason I didn't personally (attempt to) crucify Yahtzee cause of his review on Halo 3 was because I know all that he said was true. The only thing more loyal then a person who worships a game, is someone who worships a game, but isnt afraid to say that it has its flaws. All those people who sent Yahtzee the hate mail were not these kind of people. Yahtzee reviews alot of the popular games and doesnt give them many compliments (kinda reminds me of my dad who is also British). But then again I myself never expected half these games to turn the universe around (ok well maybe Halo 3). As well as putting the funniest Zero Puctuation episodes on my PSP, I put on the ones that review games that i have, solely so i can say to myself, "Yes, i was there and i totally agree".

Its really not all that simple to try and compare the Halo 3 review to the Brawl one. For one thing, he admitted that there would be a problem in his viewpoint, and didn't insult the games fans while saying this. He made sure to say that he wasn't calling the game completely awful, but just average for the current FPS market. Whereas he implied that Brawl was a bane upon humanity, and all the problems he took with it seemed entirely negligible, fairly hypocritical, largely to do with him or easily avoidable, and made certain to insult the games fans, as opposed to possibly admitting that he was not the ideal candidate to review this game. The two situations are only similar because of the subject material.

Ok you are right that the SSBB review and the Halo 3 review were different, but im just using them as an example. Lots of my friends are looking forward to SSBB coming out in Australia (some of them still play the original game on the Project64 emulator), hell one of them even has it, but I have never heard nor read anything saying that it is a game that could give all those who declare games like, Halo 3, GOW, CS, or GTA4 mediocore, a run for their money. It would be understandable if Yahtzee gave a really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, good game a bad review (this kind of game does not exist yet), but the fact is, SSBB isnt classified as a game that could shake the Earth. But then again, if people cant admit that their favourte game/s arent perfect then that's their problem and i recommend that that get the fuck away from Yahtzee and Zero Punctuation.

...Sorry, just trying to get my head around this...who says that GTA IV and God of War are mediocre?

I doubt there are any of the Brawl fans who claim it to be heaven collected and compressed into a disc. The series is a progressive work, with each on building upon its previous. The game will still have flaws, as will any product of human endeavour. However, it is still deserving of praise and is quite a good game. If Yahtzee had taken the legitamite arguments, that many of the "Nintendo Fanboys" have brought up, such as their lazy use of clones and the shoehorning in of one of the latest generation of pokemon to try and stir up some interest in it, there wouldn't be as much of a full on war here.

OK first of all, when i said GOW i meant Gears of War, but whatever floats ya boat.

Second of all, when i said "I have never heard nor read anything saying that it is a game that could give all those who declare games like, Halo 3, GOW, CS, or GTA4 mediocore, a run for their money." i meant people that are stuck up pricks that are hard to impress, but then again aren't worth impressing (kinda like Yahtzee, but not Yahtzee cause Yahtzee is worth impressing). Yahtzee can't be classified as one of these people because he has never declared any of these games shitty, and because of his cool hat. (getting a bit off subject here...)

The lessons learned here are that Yahtzee isnt the worst of the worst, and that making two games that both can both be abbreviated as GOW is a mistake and should never happen again.

Hope this clears up all the confusion.

 

[MercurySteam]

Brawl Review

our death matches could probably have been faithfully recreated by hurdling the controllers down a flight of stairs

I believe he was making reference to him and his friends button mashing without a clue what they were doing - i.e. random mashs. So, not bad controls, they just didn't know what they were doing, heh

heh kinda like what i do in Dead or Alive 3

 

[Dom Camus]

The great thing about this thread is there's already easily enough material in it to fuel another mailbag showdown!

 

[Flayra]

To all the people longing for GTA IV, I fear you'll be disappointed, and I'm afraid it'll turn into a fanboy-brawl again, only this time for a lot more people (since I assume a lot more like the GTA series than SSBB).

I myself just look forward to the humor. I couldn't care less if he tore my favourite game apart, because in my opinion this is just a show, even if most points he makes are valid

 

[bladin]

I loved the vid yahtzee.

To quickly sum up my thoughts.

1. camera and effects. It's his opinion, you have yours, your both right.
2. Unlocking chars, it sucks playing with friends when you don't have everything unlocked previously. Not everyone has the game, and not everyone has everything unlocked
3. Button mashing. The game is button mashy.... when you play it as a game instead of a lifestyle. If you've played ssb(any in the series) for more than 200 hours collectively, your lost to reason. But the advance techniques, and tournament quality play, is out of reach, and in fact is not even desirable, to the average player(as in 90% of the people who bought the game). And the game will be sorta mashy.

Yahtzee isn't going to practice playing this game(note, ssbb is just a game, it's not a lifestyle, or a way of life) enough to become "that guy". Let alone the fact that, "that guy" could never create a funny review, since i can watch fluffy rainbows, and perfect flowery bunnies all day long, and its just as boring and gay as someone describing their favorite game why it is awesome.
4. Unknown characters. They are unknown out of japan, why do you think jump ultimate stars never got out of japan. IT wasn't because of low sales potential(lol it'd have sold like hot cakes) it was because a lot of the stuff is unknown outside of japan, and some of the stuff is actually unlicensed, or held by different licensing companies for rights regarding various things in different countries.(at least thats how it was explained to me, i never got into the game, or researched it enough to verify it)

5. THIS IS ZERO PUNCTUATION!! THESE ARE NOT LEGITIMATE GAME REVIEWS!! THEY ARE FOR OUR ENJOYMENT AND ENTERTAINMENT!!

Now that you realize that, and he wasn't trying to insult your way of life. Maybe you can realize that... he was exaggerating the button mashing situation for humours sake.

And that he wasn't calling you ignorant for liking this game, or that your a fanboy for liking it. If you'd have actually listened to the review instead of steaming with nerd rage, you'd have realized that he was saying "if you defended the name "wii" when it was announced on internet forums, your going to love this game regardless of anything anyone says because your that much of a fanboy twat" And frankly, you argueing against him on these forums... has pretty much proved his point, and proved what you are.

 

[Kaos Incarnate]

What about those that disagree and explain why they disagree?
Without getting to the point of writing something like the examples in his video.

Fortunately I do not blame Yahtzee for this mess, it's mainly the people in the forums that are taking what he says too far, by that I mean on both sides of the argument. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be many people in the middle ground trying to get both sides to come to a truce.

 

[chenry]

Top notch work.

 

[KurtNiisan]

I think Yahtzee is dead-on with this one.
Thumbs-up, you English Demigod!

 

[elffymon]

My boyfriend loves you too

 

[burn to ashe]

Nice going, Yahtzee. I may be brainwashed by a semester of Modern English Grammar, but I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the text of the e-mails being corrected for punctuation. That might have made my day.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Good, very good. Indeed, most of the "critics" about Yathzee's were compleet bullcrap. We know who Yathzee is, we know how he reviews (like he sad in the previous God of War review, a really big nitpicker: good, we need those people as well) etc etc etc. Ofcourse, some valid points against Yathzee can be made. Sadly, most of the time they're just fanboy rants.
The most important one, imo, is the controll thingy. Like I sad before somewhere, the main strenght in the SS series is it's easy to grasp controlls. No long lists of strangley named combo's and crap like that. It's easy to know what you're doing, since it has few moves. Yes ofcourse, real tournament play isn't in the reach of the average game, but then again form wich game is tournament level gameplay in the reach of the average gamer? Indeed, with SSBB you can combinate the little amount of moves you have in complicated attack plans and whatever. But that doesn't mean that as an average gamer, you don't know what you're doing.

Something else, imo a game is good when the game does what it wanted to do really good. SSBB is an example of that, it's ment as an easy-to-acces party-ish game with lots of spectacle. The fact that you don't like what a game is trying to do, doesn't make the game shitty. That's the reason I don't play Football Manager. I know that it's a marvelous game; what it's wanting to do, it's doing really really good. But then again, I find it completly awfull because I don't like what the game wants to do. And for SSBB, I really like what it's wanting to do. Ofcourse that doesn't mean I'm going to go rabid about it as a fanboy (wich I'm not, I just enjoy games, like I care if they're from Nintendo or THQ or Microsoft). I accept the flaws, I don't like em but I still enjoy the game.

Disclaimer: because I suck at English (lack of proper English education, my current English level is DIY, next year I'll hopefully refine my skills when I'm going for a Bachelor in Journalism) I apologise for any grammar and spelling mistakes.

 

[Skatoony]

Absolutely brilliant - I hope the people sending hate mail actually realise what they're doing.

 

[SacrificiaLamb]

What makes Croshaw any less legitimate than the throngs of ass whores who have been squirting out perfect 10 scores across-the-board for GTA 4?