Zero Punctuation: Metal Gear Solid 4

[TerraMGP]

In the end I want people to just stop falling back on the Yatzee fanboy crap like "oh its a game you like" or "You just don't have a sense of humor" and realize the man at one point was reviewing games as himself, not putting himself in the role of whatever person would hate the game the most and blowing up what is wrong with the game for the sake of bashing it and making himself look good with the indies. Its not funny when its forced and it shows a lack of integrity.

 

[tratorix]

Look if you want to be a Yatzee fanboy thats fine, in fact the Irony is kind of funny. MY point is that it has been getting less and less funny. Its not a matter of bashing games I like or other people like or whatever, its simply a matter of him no longer trying. Bashing the controls, fine I can buy that. Bashing the lack of stealth element on easier settings ok great. But then he gets into bashing the story when he wrote four games about a freaking pain elemental who apparently went over several mellenia worth of elaborate planning to get some accountant as his new Scion or something. Its not just with MGS4 either. The man bashes things he claims to like in previous episodes going from a "Games are art" hippie to an action obsessed fanboy. Hes NOT being true to hismelf or else he would not switch sides so much and complain about things he himself seems to think are elements of good game design.

I just want him to be freaking honest.

So, to criticize MGS4, you have to have written a game as complex as it? As Yahtzee has said in several other reviews, he likes a good story, but the MGS games dialogue isn't very good. Snake practically serves as a mechanism to drive more exposition half the time( METAL GEAR?!??). Like Yahtzee said, it gets redundant.

 

[shadow skill]

Fans of certain games are just overwhelming stubborn and won't admit there's anything wrong with their Holy Grail. Fans of Metal Gear, Halo, Half-Life, Final Fantasy, and Nintendo in general come to mind. Speaking of Final Fantasy, you're right, if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII there is going to be a shit storm. Probably not the size the Brawl review generated, but pretty close.

Actually, I think if Yahtzee reviews FFXIII and doesn't completely shit all over it, trumpets will sound and Horsemen will start spreading famine, pestilence and used panties.

If a JRPG can convince Yahtzee to actually grudgingly accept the possibility that JRPGs can please him too, it's totally Final Fantasy! But I agree with you, I'll also be looking for cover because it's surely a sign of the apocalypse!

And Terra, at this point I'm beginning to fail to see your point. Your main point seems to be that you didn't find his review funny, and that Yahtzee made a game at one point that rambles and therefore has no right to identify rambling? I still maintain that I don't notice anything different from his usual review formula beyond the switching of a game. He pointed out flaws that some may not see as flaws, but once again that's his usual fare. True, Yahtzee has a habit of derailing flagship games, but that's one reason I keep coming back here. He gives a truthful and more realistic look at the games, pointing out flaws.

I think his point is that Yahtzee himself created a game with a convoluted plot so it is a bit much for him to bag on Kojima for doing the same. Also as has been pointed out by others the truthfullness of some of his complaints is debateable at best. I just think that Yahtzee missed out on plenty of other good material in this particular game, I can't believe he didn't pick on Raiden more I mean come on there was a shitload to work with there!

 

[TerraMGP]

I'm a her, but thank you. Thats what I am trying to say. It wasn't funny, it missed out on the meat of the game anyways, and again for anyone who has not so much as touched "5 days a stranger" here I advise you to do so to see what Yatzee considers a good game (The series IS good, Its just wrong to bash other games for doing the same thing)

He wrote a series of games that are just as convoluted and confusing at their core as the MGS series, and I loved the games for it, but because he has done the same thing when given the chance to make his own games saying others are wrong for doing it is, well, hypocritical.

 

[Magugag]

And again I would argue that he's being too honest for some. Call me a Yahtzee 'fanboy' if you want, fine. That's cool with me, whatever helps you rationalize my opinion. Also, I would tend to guess that Yahtzee's games don't have hour long cutscenes that do most of playing your character for you, but having never played them (strange, seeing as I'm apparently some fanboy) I can't attest to this myself. I think this has just boiled down to simple disagreement, with no need for more reasoning. An impasse. You think Yahtzee is being dishonest of his opinions, I don't. If you really care a lot, reply and I'll let you have the last word, but it seems that arguing games it about as successful as religion and politics nowadays.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

Look if you want to be a Yatzee fanboy thats fine, in fact the Irony is kind of funny. MY point is that it has been getting less and less funny. Its not a matter of bashing games I like or other people like or whatever, its simply a matter of him no longer trying. Bashing the controls, fine I can buy that. Bashing the lack of stealth element on easier settings ok great. But then he gets into bashing the story when he wrote four games about a freaking pain elemental who apparently went over several mellenia worth of elaborate planning to get some accountant as his new Scion or something. Its not just with MGS4 either. The man bashes things he claims to like in previous episodes going from a "Games are art" hippie to an action obsessed fanboy. Hes NOT being true to hismelf or else he would not switch sides so much and complain about things he himself seems to think are elements of good game design.

I just want him to be freaking honest.

You realize this is a bit different from his games, he makes his games on about 0 budget and this is one of the most expensive games ever made. Besides, you cannot say that there are certain senerios you are a "games are art hippy" and others where all you want is blood. I don't care if I am a fan boy, there is a hellofalot of his stuff I dislike and that I find incongruous, I really am posting because I want to disagree with as many people as possible.

 

[Groovewood]

Anyways, decent review, as a long standing MGS fan (since MGS 1, I'm too young to have been around during the MG on MSX era or NES for that matter) and I agree with this review. I got the game on launch Thursday, and beat it by Friday evening. Overall, I felt very meh to the whole experience, the story was delivered in such a boring manner, so much of the story line basically equates to some character needlessly rambling on and on. It's boring, and it's poor. I enjoyed MGS' storyline, while it's a bit needlessly complex and very silly, it's still fairly entertaining, plus I like giant killer robots so go figure. However, I just can't stand sitting around being spoon fed exposition, it's like they think the story is so important, it just needs to be told to the player, rather than letting the player take part in it.

Yahtzee summed up this game quite well: Pretty game, with some decent gameplay, inter spliced with obnoxiously long cutscenes and poorly written / delivered dialogue.

And to people who think playing the game on the Boss extreme with no kills, alerts, or whatever, that's not stealthy gameplay, that just turns into frustrating trial and error. I've done act 1 like that, and let me summarize how it plays: *peek around corner* *alert* *restart*, *walk down the road* *alert* *restart*, *turn around* *alert* *restart*, if anything playing on higher difficulty demonstrates how damn hard it is to stealth in this game. It's not stealth, it's trial and error puzzle solving

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

i gave up on Metal Gear since Sons of Liberty kept fucking with me upon boot up, not letting me play for 2 minutes without interrupting me with a cut scene or verbose chat via my wrist phone.

i was really hoping Konami would knock that crap off so i could buy another metal gear game, but based on the review, they are more full of themselves than ever and Kojima still has the lack of a concise vision.

oh well... still crossing my fingers for a seperate online component

 

[Anitoon]

wow you always change my opinion about videogames but i wished you would have gotten something clear about the game: if you thought the game was good or bad? you said it had a lot of cutscenes and you also said it had A LOT of writing but was it worth it?

if i could make a request-which i will-i wanna ask you if you could review okami next. i dont know i liked it and i wanna hear ur thoughts about it as well.
will you be at e3? just asking.

 

[Xenoveritas]

I am honestly convinced that the gameplay sections are designed as punishment for players between cutscene segments. But then the cutscenes are so punishingly long (why oh why do we have to watch Sunny make eggs every single freaking time?! I don't care!) that I'm convinced that the cutscenes are some form of punishment. I guess Kojima is just a sadistic bastard who loves to make his fans suffer, and his fans are just masochistic enough to love it.

Oh well. I've never been a huge Metal Gear Solid fanboy. (Ignoring my blog posts about the first one. I was young and stupid. Shut up.) I just never got into the whole thing.

I'm glad to see at least one review mention the completely messed up fighting controls. I actually enabled Auto-Aim in the hope that it would at least get Snake pointed in the right direction, but nope. You still get that fight to get him facing the enemy before he snaps onto their torso.

And, yes, you can skip the cutscenes, but that kind of defeats the whole point of the game, doesn't it?

I've heard the games summed up as the following:

MGS: Nukes are bad.
MGS2: Pot is good!
MGS3: Critters are tasty!
MGS4: War's bad, drugs're good!

 

[TerraMGP]

Money is not a factor when writing. He wrote those games HIMSELF, just like Hideo he came up with the overall concepts and all the plot points, and plot holes. He designed an adventure game which is one step away from a book to begin with, and you will have NO point of reference for most of them if you don't play them in order. Hence why its hypocritical. He wrote the games himself and so can't talk when another man writes another set of games with a story that's just as confusing and full of plot holes. I'm calling him out on that one.

As for people who find the cut scenes boring? well, you just should not be playing video games if you have ADD that bad. Its supposed to make it worse.

 

[SirSchmoopy]

Lady. There are more cutscenes in MG4 then there is game play. It's an interactive movie moreso then it is a game. Where did Yatzee lie in his review? Was the gameplay really the best shooter/sneak action game you played? Were the cut scenes really that riveting or did you know half the plot before they happen? At least Yatzhee has played the previous games because his review is dead on if you look at his FINAL POINT. If you are a fan of the series you will love it, but if you have never touched a MG game then it is nothing special.

The previous Metal Gear games all try to stand out by themselves where as this one is just like it's trying really hard to tie things together and be good. There has to be at least 70 to 90 minutes of cut scenes in the game. Thats a little more then a little "ADD".

 

[Vicioussama]

I don't quite get how the controls are bad in his opinion I found them fine for sneaking or not sneaking. Hideo gave this one the option for people to sneak or not to sneak. Those who want to stay true will sneak and those who don't won't the story does sometimes repeat what's said :| I agree.. I'm more surprised you didn't talk about the BB Unit. I found them AWESOME but tacked on and rather unimportant to the story. They were just there.. and no one even really talked about them through-out the game other than during or right after the boss battle (with Drebin) and even then it was rare lol. That was kinda a poor point imo about the game.

Other than that I was fine. I know some people had problems with the product placement but I think those people are people that just find something to ***** about cause it wasn't even that big a deal and very very very VERY minor lol. Only found if you look for it (other than the iPod which was an awesome thing they implemented imo).

As for the cutscenes, there were many, but that's fine. Hideo wanted to break the barrier of game and movie and this is a lot like a movie.. or.. short series on TV. But one where you can play as well. And it was done really well. The game was fun and worth multiple play throughs. It's worth the money.

 

[tratorix]

Money is not a factor when writing. He wrote those games HIMSELF, just like Hideo he came up with the overall concepts and all the plot points, and plot holes. He designed an adventure game which is one step away from a book to begin with, and you will have NO point of reference for most of them if you don't play them in order. Hence why its hypocritical. He wrote the games himself and so can't talk when another man writes another set of games with a story that's just as confusing and full of plot holes. I'm calling him out on that one.

As for people who find the cut scenes boring? well, you just should not be playing video games if you have ADD that bad. Its supposed to make it worse.

An adventure game is different from a game that advertises Tactical Espionage Action. And if you're talking about the set of games that starts with 5 Days a Stranger, what was that confusing about them? I found them fairly easy to follow.

As for your last comment, cutscenes are not the point of a game. Games are meant to be interactive. If I want to watch a movie, I watch a movie. I like my games to have interactive parts. Thats why I like games like Mass Effect. The conversation system helps keep you in the game, you aren't just watching characters talk at you for half an hour.

 

[VMerken]

Resident Evil 4 is a mere 2 hours worth of core gameplay so relatively speaking, things are not as bad as the MGS4 cut scenes would make it seem - don't be fooled .

Two hours?! That would be one hell of a speedrun for RE4. That game is HARD, especially on high difficulty.

Heh, I know quite a few people who finish RE4 in Normal within 2 hours. Personally, I've done a 2h27min run on Professional (starting from a New Game of course) on PS2 without using any Rocket Launchers. I've also done a Load Game run on PS2 and finished in 1h51min.

Truth is, with all the new tricks in RE4 that have been found, I and the others can go even faster . Unfortunately, I don't have the time to go all out anymore.

Hence I'm quite positive the pros will churn some really fast MGS4 play in the future.

[...]

By the way, here's a tip for everyone struggling with the controls or finding them "difficult" (and this includes Yahtzee (not only in this game, but several others as well)): practise to get better at them, or play a game which caters better to your noob gaming skills . What, not feeling comfortable having your noob gaming skills called out? Then practise and leave noob-dom, or move on.

 

[TerraMGP]

Says the man whos new incarnation of his series is, well quite frankly bland as salteens. I loved the old Urealms and its just not funny anymore. Go back to mocking D&D/gamer stereotypes and stop rushing though old Memes man. anyways that rant is over.

Why does everyone think that cutscenes are a BAD thing? They are GOOD! I loved the cut scenes in this and I think it brought ALL of the old games togeather very well. My problem though isn't even that he said "if your a fan you will like it if not you won't" Its that he is BASHING FOR THINGS HE DOES HIMSELF WHEN MAKING A GAME! He is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Seriously though, please try and get Urealms back on track.

 

[Groovewood]

As for people who find the cut scenes boring? well, you just should not be playing video games if you have ADD that bad. Its supposed to make it worse.

Oh yes, watching a 70 year old woman talking for 30 minutes about the illuminati is very exciting...

Seriously: the game's cut scenes are boring. The story is ridiculous, and the game presents it like it's something everyone cares so much about it that it's all they want to hear. Screw presentation, lets just have introduce a character and have them talk for twenty minutes, no need for anything else, we'll just have them walk around talk. Exciting shit.

 

[shadow skill]

Lady. There are more cutscenes in MG4 then there is game play. It's an interactive movie moreso then it is a game. Where did Yatzee lie in his review? Was the gameplay really the best shooter/sneak action game you played? Were the cut scenes really that riveting or did you know half the plot before they happen? At least Yatzhee has played the previous games because his review is dead on if you look at his FINAL POINT. If you are a fan of the series you will love it, but if you have never touched a MG4 game then it is nothing special.

The previous Metal Gear games all try to stand out by themselves where as this one is just like it's trying really hard to tie things together and be good. There has to be at least 70 to 90 minutes of cut scenes in the game. Thats a little more then a little "ADD".

You really ought to read what she said. What does the number of cutscenes in MGS4 have to do with the point Yahtzee made about the plot being convoluted and her related point that he has done the same thing as it relates to convoluted plots in his own game? aIn her estimation.) MGS one and two do not really stand by themselves and three and four are directly linked to each other though it is safe to skip MGS 3.

 

[yzzlthtz]

Yahtzee, while very observant intelligent and funny, comes across more and more as a 360 fanboy who successfully tells the frothing nerd masses what to think about every game he reviews. Between him and Kotaku, there is hardly an original opinion amongst the brainwashed nerd elite.

(i mean that in the best possible way, of course)

Standard (read: boring and predictable) criticisms of this game are way off the mark. I was hoping Yahtzee would come up with something more creative for MGS4.

- controls : not to dis on Yahtzee's obvious mad gaming skills, but last time i checked 3 buttons to shoot in a 3rd person shooter - 1 to aim, 1 shoot, and 1 to optionally zoom/look through a scope
- was pretty standard. Seriously, were you trying to play after doing beerbongs and arm wrestling a gorilla? i find the controls pretty darn smooth. it's just that they don't mimic the oft repeated Gears of War control scheme, so this might throw people off.

-Not for newcomers to the franchise? I never played a single metal gear yet i'm entirely in love with this one (except for the love scenes which i now know when to skip).

- Not a stealth game? useless gadgets?

MGS4 gives you the opportunity to play it however you want to play it. A choice. Not a series of button presses to master, not a single overpowered weapon, but an opportunity to use a vast arsenal of weapons and tools to get through unpredictable situations however the hell you want to. Go up on a hill and snipe people then move in and slit some throats? fine. Cause a diversion with some explosions and then pop behind people, mow them down, find a nice hiding spot and then slip away unseen? do it. distract your enemies with tossed girly mags and sounds and sneak past them all trying to get yourself into the smallest corner in the middle of enemy forces? good times. Go Rambo and tear into your enemies with ferocious military might, leaving no one- friend or foe - alive to tell the tale? If that's what you're into.

And there is one very positive thing i have to say about metal gear solid 4 that may be a no brainer, but i rarely see it mentioned: it's really weird. very very strange. some things i've found, sounds i've heard, in game, are truly bizarre and or silly.

Yahtzee, I usually get something out of your work, but on this one: Yawn. Some chuckles, but I hope you can come up with something more original to say next time.

and seriously, what is it about every video following up with a NG2 preview? have you guys sold out that hard, or do you really love that game like little girl loves a newborn puppy?

 

[Vicioussama]

Says the man whos new incarnation of his series is, well quite frankly bland as salteens. I loved the old Urealms and its just not funny anymore. Go back to mocking D&D/gamer stereotypes and stop rushing though old Memes man. anyways that rant is over.

Why does everyone think that cutscenes are a BAD thing? They are GOOD! I loved the cut scenes in this and I think it brought ALL of the old games togeather very well. My problem though isn't even that he said "if your a fan you will like it if not you won't" Its that he is BASHING FOR THINGS HE DOES HIMSELF WHEN MAKING A GAME! He is a hypocrite, plain and simple.

Seriously though, please try and get Urealms back on track.

People think cutscenes are bad because they have no damn patience to watch and pay attention and realize a good story. I agree that this game could have used a bit of editing but it was still a great story with great characters. People would rather have flashy graphics and shallow shit.. than with a deep good story. It's a problem with our society though.. too much instant gratification has brought people to become impatient, shallow, and selfish. There's too many out there who give sex casually.. too many parents that spoil their children.. too many schools that give trophies to EVERYONE instead of the few who really earned them.