Zero Punctuation: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I think all the fan boy rage is NOT directed toward changing non-fan boy opinions. I think we're just upset that everyone's criticism are generally what we would consider false generalizations about our video game.
It'd be like you all telling your closest African American friend that fried chicken is over rated.
In general, I would say that YOU ALL are entitled to YOUR opinions, and We are entitled to OUR opinions, and we are BOTH entitled to argue about them for as long as BOTH of us are interested in doing so. Which will probably be for the next couple of days.
On an entirely different note: Does anyone else agree that we seem to be on pace to break the ZP record for most comments in response to a video? We hit the two hundred mark in a matter of hours.
It'd be like you all telling your closest African American friend that fried chicken is over rated.
In general, I would say that YOU ALL are entitled to YOUR opinions, and We are entitled to OUR opinions, and we are BOTH entitled to argue about them for as long as BOTH of us are interested in doing so. Which will probably be for the next couple of days.
On an entirely different note: Does anyone else agree that we seem to be on pace to break the ZP record for most comments in response to a video? We hit the two hundred mark in a matter of hours.
i could feel the passion in this one, the pure hatred. I can genuinely believe Yahtze DESPISES THIS GAME lol
and agree with his point about unlocking stuff. V. annoying
and agree with his point about unlocking stuff. V. annoying
Well largely i agree with yahtzee on this one, Most of these mario franchises such as the mario series or the Link series never change much. Now I'm not saying all such games are bad some of them can be quite good despite the similarities to previous versions.
As for this game in question i actually likes the multi player part of it. While it is true that you need to unlock stuff such as characters its not like other such games don't use this method of encouraging repeated playing. I will say tho the changing environments is really a nice change from what you usually see from other Fighting games.
As for this game in question i actually likes the multi player part of it. While it is true that you need to unlock stuff such as characters its not like other such games don't use this method of encouraging repeated playing. I will say tho the changing environments is really a nice change from what you usually see from other Fighting games.
I love ssbb first and foremost. however...it seems to me that while going to melee from the original smash bros was like jumping from a plain to a mountain top, going from melee to brawl was more akin to jumping from a plain to a slightly raised lump of dirt. It was better but only enough to be considered an expansion to melee rather than a whole game in it's own right. the story was good especially considering it had no talking(wait I take that back. it was a serious plus that there was no talking.) although I must say that the actual gameplay of the story was frustrating and annoying. The side scroller's time has come and gone this being little more than an over hyped death rattle. Still the fights are intense, the final smashes worth watching and I must admit that i'd buy another one if nintendo created it. I'd like to thank yahtzee for being brutally honest. Nintendo needs more harsh criticism seeing as how everyone seems awed by the golden light shining out the wii's ass.
I know what everybody means, but the smash bos series does have strategy. Whenever me and my friend play smash bros. i always win easily. i use tactic. o hit the buttons at the right time and i use combos. my friend is a button masher. he can only win from me if he is aided by two level 9 enemies. But i do hate having to unlock all sorts of stuff
Well remember those characters that are locked in this game were a major part of the advertising campaign so i guess it makes a certain perverse sense to have them locked.mspencer82 said:
Wow, seven pages of responses so far.
If nothing else, Yahtzee is raking in the traffic for the Escapist. lols.
If nothing else, Yahtzee is raking in the traffic for the Escapist. lols.
You said that the game is shallow. Did you watch the video "Perfect Control" posted earlier? Whether or not you like the game, that's your call. Sure, that's your opinion and that cannot be wrong, by definition. However, to say that the game is shallow is misinformed. That would be similar to saying that Street Fighter is shallow because all you know how to do is the hadouken move with Ryu. Stop acting like the gaming world revolves around your know-how. Recognize that there are people out there who are better than you.mspencer82 said:
That was awesome. I wish every week could be that good.
Not even going to say it, but I'm really looking forward to next week. Don't let me down.
Not even going to say it, but I'm really looking forward to next week. Don't let me down.
Now, I don't want any misunderstanding so everyone should read this post exactly as it is, written by one of those Nintendo fanboys who has nothing better to do but play Brawl by himself. So take from this post what you may.
My first concern is that it seemed like Yahtzee didn't even play through the whole game, or even most of it, or even any more than the two or so hours it took for him to come up with enough stuff for him to talk about really really fast for four minutes.
Second, if you don't like fighting games because of button mashing, than anyone who's played Brawl for any decent amount of time (see point above) would know that Brawl actually does a better job at this than most fighting games. In your normal fighting games you have the options of horizontal attach, vertical attack, kick, and block. Which, when you button mash together usually results in your character at least doing something. With Brawl you've got normal attack, special attack, and jump buttons; usually resulting in anyone who's trying to button mash to just jump around and perform incredibly weak attacks and sometimes even kill themselves (i.e. Yoshi egg roll themselves right off the damn stage). All this means that Brawl rewards you for actually learning the basic controls because it means you spend a lot more time actually fighting and a lot less time jumping around like a dick.
Third, if you spend any amount of time playing the game with a basic understanding of the controls/moveset (see the last TWO points above) you know that YOU CAN see what other players are doing (NOT just a brightly colored maelstrom, LSD induced, clusterfuck) and to be any good you DO have to respond to other players moves. I think the fact that there are players who are good at the game, logically seems to follow that they can see what their opponents are doing and counteract them.
And yes, it IS annoying that all the characters that have been getting so much hype are locked until you practically beat the game anyway. But if anyone is actually surprised by this fact... Well, there's just no nice way of putting this, you're an f*ing moron. Game developers have been doing this for years, and now it just seems like your trying to hard nitpick and find flaws.
I suppose what really irks me however, is that there are TONS of reason to not be absolutely in love with with Brawl, or even like Brawl, but Yahtzee seems to only comment on these in passing. The single player was so repetitive and the tacked on now-do-it-all-again-so-we-can-make-the-game-twice-as-long element was so horrible that if anything should be the down fall of Brawl it should be that. Not to mention the poorly supported Wi-Fi play..
So stop complaining and just start bashing Pikachu's skull in with a frying pan.
My first concern is that it seemed like Yahtzee didn't even play through the whole game, or even most of it, or even any more than the two or so hours it took for him to come up with enough stuff for him to talk about really really fast for four minutes.
Second, if you don't like fighting games because of button mashing, than anyone who's played Brawl for any decent amount of time (see point above) would know that Brawl actually does a better job at this than most fighting games. In your normal fighting games you have the options of horizontal attach, vertical attack, kick, and block. Which, when you button mash together usually results in your character at least doing something. With Brawl you've got normal attack, special attack, and jump buttons; usually resulting in anyone who's trying to button mash to just jump around and perform incredibly weak attacks and sometimes even kill themselves (i.e. Yoshi egg roll themselves right off the damn stage). All this means that Brawl rewards you for actually learning the basic controls because it means you spend a lot more time actually fighting and a lot less time jumping around like a dick.
Third, if you spend any amount of time playing the game with a basic understanding of the controls/moveset (see the last TWO points above) you know that YOU CAN see what other players are doing (NOT just a brightly colored maelstrom, LSD induced, clusterfuck) and to be any good you DO have to respond to other players moves. I think the fact that there are players who are good at the game, logically seems to follow that they can see what their opponents are doing and counteract them.
And yes, it IS annoying that all the characters that have been getting so much hype are locked until you practically beat the game anyway. But if anyone is actually surprised by this fact... Well, there's just no nice way of putting this, you're an f*ing moron. Game developers have been doing this for years, and now it just seems like your trying to hard nitpick and find flaws.
I suppose what really irks me however, is that there are TONS of reason to not be absolutely in love with with Brawl, or even like Brawl, but Yahtzee seems to only comment on these in passing. The single player was so repetitive and the tacked on now-do-it-all-again-so-we-can-make-the-game-twice-as-long element was so horrible that if anything should be the down fall of Brawl it should be that. Not to mention the poorly supported Wi-Fi play..
So stop complaining and just start bashing Pikachu's skull in with a frying pan.
I got the same impression myself, which lead me to my, "If I, for instance, didn't like FPS in general, and only played a game for a few minutes, most people would disagree with me when I said that Half Life 2 sucked because all you did was point a mouse at things on a screen and click on them."Roxwuff said:
I think the general lesson is that Yahtzee shouldn't review a game he hates.
But then again I doubt The Escapist would let Yahtzee out of reviewing a major release like SSBB.
A great review. Confrontational like never before, but still a great review.
A friend of mine brought his Gamecube to my apartment once and I got to play this game. Meh. All I saw was dustclouds from far away and a "1P" arrow pointing to where I was supposed to be. Then I kept falling off ledges. I never felt like I got to play Bowser or Yoshi so much as I played a flashing arrow.
I'm not hating on Smash Brothers, and as a tabletop game designer I don't agree with Yahtzee all the time (I like JRPGs; bite me!) but now that I know of someone ELSE who thinks the SSB games aren't perfect "10" games (figuratively speaking) I no longer feel like I'm alone in the world.
A friend of mine brought his Gamecube to my apartment once and I got to play this game. Meh. All I saw was dustclouds from far away and a "1P" arrow pointing to where I was supposed to be. Then I kept falling off ledges. I never felt like I got to play Bowser or Yoshi so much as I played a flashing arrow.
I'm not hating on Smash Brothers, and as a tabletop game designer I don't agree with Yahtzee all the time (I like JRPGs; bite me!) but now that I know of someone ELSE who thinks the SSB games aren't perfect "10" games (figuratively speaking) I no longer feel like I'm alone in the world.
I have become "that guy" on-
Halo 3
Sonic Riders (He was good back in the adventure days and I'm loyal)
Mario Cart (all of them)
Something else.
I agree with every point, except for the button mashing. Either you aren't as good as you think or you're playing it like a fighting game, which it isn't.
DoA4-
I
KICK
ASS
WITH
EVERYONE
Because all I have to do is ram my head into the controller.
Smash Bros Melee
I can learn all the moves (through practice) and I still suck with-
Bowser
Roy (even though I'm decent with Marth.. Weird.)
Ness
Jigglypuff (It's not like anyone likes playing as that thing anyway.)
I actually do know all the moves because of the games tendency to force you to play as characters you don't like, but even after reading up on how to use tactics and how to blah-blah-blah I can't use them properly at all.
On a completely different note, Nintendo needs to learn that nobody gives a crap about 15 minute melee and we certainly don't want to have to go through it for one fucking character.
Unfortunatly, I believe I'm becoming a collector on Smash. I'm addicted to those trophies. The lottery, the fricken challenges. Oh yes the challenges...
The cutscenes kicked ass. No-one can deny that.
Halo 3
Sonic Riders (He was good back in the adventure days and I'm loyal)
Mario Cart (all of them)
Something else.
I agree with every point, except for the button mashing. Either you aren't as good as you think or you're playing it like a fighting game, which it isn't.
DoA4-
I
KICK
ASS
WITH
EVERYONE
Because all I have to do is ram my head into the controller.
Smash Bros Melee
I can learn all the moves (through practice) and I still suck with-
Bowser
Roy (even though I'm decent with Marth.. Weird.)
Ness
Jigglypuff (It's not like anyone likes playing as that thing anyway.)
I actually do know all the moves because of the games tendency to force you to play as characters you don't like, but even after reading up on how to use tactics and how to blah-blah-blah I can't use them properly at all.
On a completely different note, Nintendo needs to learn that nobody gives a crap about 15 minute melee and we certainly don't want to have to go through it for one fucking character.
Unfortunatly, I believe I'm becoming a collector on Smash. I'm addicted to those trophies. The lottery, the fricken challenges. Oh yes the challenges...
The cutscenes kicked ass. No-one can deny that.
Huh. A lot of people signed up just to comment on this review.
Uh, I've been meaning to register before, I've just been busy! Ah, to hell with it.
I played the original Smash Bros. once. I attempted to play Melee but was discouraged by being completely and utterly "PWNED" by everyone and their girlfriend. The only thing that attracted me to Brawl was King Dedede--a friend and I have argued for years on who would win in a fight between Dedede and Bowser, and when the big blue penguin was announced for Brawl, well, it was on.
(For the record, he's become a "That Guy" so I've only been able to beat him once.)
So my opinion on Brawl? It's a fun game but I know unless I invest in a Wii and devote time I don't have in learning every damn quick about Dedede I'll never be as good as the guys I know who have played Melee almost religiously since it came out so I don't let it bother me. Same thing with Halo. Yes, I could practice at becoming a crackshot with the sniper rifle, but I DON'T WANT TO. Partially because I hate snipers and because I have better things to do.
I agree that it plays like one big fanfic and the more hyped characters should have been available from the get-go (leave the obscure and wave-to-the-fans characters for later).
EDIT: Are people calling for depth in a fighting game? Why the hell do you think Street Fighter has had such a hard time with a coherent storyline? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
Uh, I've been meaning to register before, I've just been busy! Ah, to hell with it.
I played the original Smash Bros. once. I attempted to play Melee but was discouraged by being completely and utterly "PWNED" by everyone and their girlfriend. The only thing that attracted me to Brawl was King Dedede--a friend and I have argued for years on who would win in a fight between Dedede and Bowser, and when the big blue penguin was announced for Brawl, well, it was on.
(For the record, he's become a "That Guy" so I've only been able to beat him once.)
So my opinion on Brawl? It's a fun game but I know unless I invest in a Wii and devote time I don't have in learning every damn quick about Dedede I'll never be as good as the guys I know who have played Melee almost religiously since it came out so I don't let it bother me. Same thing with Halo. Yes, I could practice at becoming a crackshot with the sniper rifle, but I DON'T WANT TO. Partially because I hate snipers and because I have better things to do.
I agree that it plays like one big fanfic and the more hyped characters should have been available from the get-go (leave the obscure and wave-to-the-fans characters for later).
EDIT: Are people calling for depth in a fighting game? Why the hell do you think Street Fighter has had such a hard time with a coherent storyline? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT.
I agree 100%, although due to my lack of video-game proficency, the random-button-mashing factor generally works in my favor rather than againts it.
Ew, no wonder. Bowser and Yoshi are the worst characters.The Gil-Monster said:A great review. Confrontational like never before, but still a great review.
A friend of mine brought his Gamecube to my apartment once and I got to play this game. Meh. All I saw was dustclouds from far away and a "1P" arrow pointing to where I was supposed to be. Then I kept falling off ledges. I never felt like I got to play Bowser or Yoshi so much as I played a flashing arrow.
I'm not hating on Smash Brothers, and as a tabletop game designer I don't agree with Yahtzee all the time (I like JRPGs; bite me!) but now that I know of someone ELSE who thinks the SSB games aren't perfect "10" games (figuratively speaking) I no longer feel like I'm alone in the world.
But seriously, you could have picked smaller levels. Smash Bros can be played in dozens of different ways to fit your tastes. I'm not sure how you kept falling off ledges though, that's a bit of a mystery lol.