Zero Punctuation: Thief: The Dark Project

thetragicclown

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Sylocat said:
04:35: I don't get it.
It's what a guard often says in Thief right before you clock him round the head, ala what Garret's doing to the guard in the vid.

Also, for the hell of it, bearpits.

http://bearpits.ytmnd.com/
 

Rybe

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Indigo_Dingo said:
The stealth genre is never about feeling like the victim, wherein you actually hide because you're waiting for the scary men to go away. Its about feeling like a tormentor - an unstoppable sadistic genius penetrating any situation on your wits alone - this is really why the best Stealth series (Metal Gear Solid and Hitman) have assassination as your end goal.
Hmmm have to respectfully disagree with you buddy. You weren't -allowed- to kill people in the Thief games if you played it on expert most of the time. Garrett was supposed to be kind of a dick, not a cold blooded killer. It makes Garrett a much more sympathetic character than someone who sticks knives in people's brains for a few bucks.

But maybe I'm just a freak for not liking to murder everyone when I play video games.

But as to the video, >.< LOVE! EEEE! I'm such a raging Thief fan girl, and none of my friends really know why, ("what, you liked that Thief game, you should love Hit Man, it's stealth!- *gurgling sound of being choked*") now I can just rub this video in their faces! Those games were amazing, even if Thief 3 tried to murder all that I loved...I was still able to forgive it, just because of the hardcore fan service (the non-sexy kind) they stuck at the very end... Sigh. I should play 2 again...

Though I have to say Garrett's tap shoes filled me with rage. Raagggeeee~!
 

Sayne

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Feb 11, 2009
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GaeMFreeK said:
Was waiting for this one. Got Thief I recently, so Thief II is better then?

I'll have to check it out.

"THEY DON'T MAKE BEARS LIKE THEY USED TO."
Depends on your perspective. The story and plot twists of Thief I are, to quote Yahtzee, Balls tighteningly fantastic. Escape!is annoying as crap, but Return to the Cathedral is so amazing that it covers up many many small evils. The WOO missions (thief slang for scary missions) were almost eliminated in T2 in favor of more manor robbing... but they got a bit sloppy in the last few missions of T2. It depends on your perspective.

I'm of the opinion that T2 was meant to be better but looking glass was forced to release it too early because they were going under. Thief Gold is the standard for me.

Play them both for what they are. As a whole two of the very best games ever made.
 

Trace2010

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Was it just me...or was this a GamePro style review? This one was a little flat compared to his others. Granted, I don't know anything about the game- but the review was kind of tame for what we have come to expect.

Oh well...maybe I'm being too critical.
 

Pimppeter2

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I suck at stealth games, heck I could barley beet the training mission in Splintercell DA, Im not an action junkey though, Im just not sneaky
 

Syphonz

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For the first time in a long while I find my self wondering: "What was just said?" Is it just me, or did Yahtzee's speech pick up the tempo a little bit more than normal in this one?
 

Squilookle

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But see- many of these elements (extremely non linear levels, sneaking up behind guards, actually being able to defend yourself if you absolutely had to) are what made Goldeneye 007 such a brilliant stealth em up a year previously. Honestly- hearing all this crap about halo being THE revolutionary console FPS that introduced dual wielding just makes me want to break down and cry like a sissy.
 

Slackenerny

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Oct 26, 2008
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Thief is the most immersive game I've ever played. It gave me my highest experience of total encapsulation within a game. I got so immersed in this game I think I even started staying in the shadows more as I walked around in real life. In addition, my memories of what happened feel very close to being my own memories as opposed to memories of playing a game.

I remember picking a lock on a door of a hallway, and a guard suddenly opening the door and coming through. I spun around behind the opening door and whipped out my blackjack, neatly rapping him the back of head as he walked past. The whole thing took less than a second.

In 1999, you just hadn't experienced anything like that before. And no other game since as achieved the same level of stealth quality. I think the problem with newer stealth games is that they cater too much to the FPS crowd and allow your character to be too strong at direct combat. In the first Thief game, you could fight one guard with a sword and come away with a medium level of damage. If you faced more than one guard, or the guard called for help, you had to leg it. There was no way you could stay and fight. In Thief III, you could fight through the game like it was Dark Messiah if you wanted?.just not the same experience. If there is no real threat from discovery, the thrill of the sneaker is lost.
 

Slackenerny

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Rybe said:
Hmmm have to respectfully disagree with you buddy. You weren't -allowed- to kill people in the Thief games if you played it on expert most of the time. Garrett was supposed to be kind of a dick, not a cold blooded killer. It makes Garrett a much more sympathetic character than someone who sticks knives in people's brains for a few bucks.
Absolutely, expert was the only way to play this game. No killing and no more than a couple of knockouts. That was serious tension.

Rybe said:
Those games were amazing, even if Thief 3 tried to murder all that I loved...I was still able to forgive it, just because of the hardcore fan service (the non-sexy kind) they stuck at the very end... Sigh. I should play 2 again...
While Thief III was almost as much a travesty as Deus Ex:IW due to the crappy console port and miniscule level sizes (do you remember that rooftop level starting at the bell with the mist? Man that level was HUGE!), you do have it give it kudos for one thing. Shalebridge Cradle. That was one of the best examples of level design I have ever seen. And it had a lot of drag factor from the bad engine so I give it extra points.
 

thetragicclown

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Slackenerny said:
Absolutely, expert was the only way to play this game. No killing and no more than a couple of knockouts. That was serious tension.
Expert also opened up more areas to explore and loot to grab, or it did on the Bonehoard level in Thief 1 at least. On easier difficulties you only had to find a valuable horn, whereas the harder ones also had you searching for alternately one and two gemstones deeper in the crypts. Extra content as a reward for greater challenge isn't a feature I've seen repeated much, if at all, in games since.
 

Midnight Voyager

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Jan 7, 2008
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Not a word about Shalebridge Cradle? For SHAME.

Even with the old graphics, that level just about made my bladder spontaneously commit suicide. The jerks of the puppets kept aligning with the spazzing of the lights. It was awesome. And horrifying.

...I mean, I actually tossed my mouse off my desk at one point. (Which made me swing at air and spin around in an amusing fashion.) The DETAIL...
 

ThaBenMan

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thetragicclown said:
Also, for the hell of it, bearpits.

http://bearpits.ytmnd.com/
HAHAHA, awesome, thanks for that!

It's a shame that these games aren't as popular as, say, Half-Life. I'll even submit that Garrett is a better character than the beloved Gordon Freeman, since he's, y'know, an actual character, that talks and stuff!

Man, I should play this again soon. Back when I played it I sucked - I could never get through the fourth level where you had to follow the two assassins sent to kill you without being seen.
 

angrymice

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If Thief III was crap, it was only crap in relation to its antecedents. It actually had some quite intriguing ideas, really badly executed (unlike previous Thief games, which had intriguing ideas executed really well). Allowing you to wander around a sprawling city to get to different missions, as well as providing opportunities for side missions (read: innocent victims' houses) to increase your wealth could have been fantastic given the intriguing universe that had been created up to that point. Unfortunately the city was distressingly tiny and the fact that you had to sneak around it was absolutely obnoxious. What the hell kind of thief are you that the police know exactly who you are?

As has been mentioned previously, Shalebridge Cradle was an absolutely fantastic level. One of the scariest levels I've ever played. Oh hell, THE scariest level I've ever played. Despite all of its shortcomings, one should play the game only for that part. Then you can stay for the museum level which is pretty worth it.

Regarding the video, I have one major quibble and that's the tiny little Cate Archer over in the left hand corner at 04:45. Sure, No One Lives Forever was primarily an action game, but I hardly think its stealth elements should be faulted. You were after all a spy (and a thief, BTW). Approaching your goals with stealth made perfect sense to me in the context of the game. Of course, I love that game so much, it's hard for me to hear any criticism of it. It was stylish, funny, inventive and fun in ways that Monolith hasn't come close to since, and, in fact seem to be almost entirely abandoning at this point (I'm looking at you F.E.A.R.).
 

Roto13

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Apr 23, 2008
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Good god, that was easily the worst ZP yet. Usually I don't just sit through the video waiting for it to be over, but this wasn't funny at all.
 

Slackenerny

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Midnight Voyager said:
Not a word about Shalebridge Cradle? For SHAME.
You missed my post on the last page. I mentioned it there as the stunning highlight of an otherwise lacklustre console port.

Hmmmm....just occurred to me that you were probably talking about the ZP review. :)
 

Midnight Voyager

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Slackenerny said:
Hmmmm....just occurred to me that you were probably talking about the ZP review. :)
Heh, that I was.

While I'm at it: The servants. From the second game. OH GOD the servants. With their giddy giggles and relieved, whispered "Thank you,"s as you knocked them out. *SHIVER*
 

ThaBenMan

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And I think another thing worth mentioning about Thief are the beautiful cinematics [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uR8pcqV_HY]. A lost art in the current age of scripted story events, the amazing, painting-like cutscenes [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AAzkPkiImo&feature=related] still hold me in awe. (warning: major spoilers in that second one)