Zero Punctuation: Top 5 Games of 2015

Eric the Orange

Gone Gonzo
Apr 29, 2008
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SlumlordThanatos said:
Seems to me your problem is not with the game it self but rather it's overzealous fans. Which is fine, but going a step beyond that and saying that anyone who likes the game is a smug holier than thou jerk is gonna rub people the wrong way. Which you then use as proof to say "see they are all jerks because they got mad when I called them jerks".

I also see a lot of "everyone likes this thing but I don't". This seems to happen when anything reaches a certain critical mass of popularity in a community. But why is it that people feel the need to defend why they don't like it? I don't care for Witcher 3, Fallout 4, or Bloodborne. And that fine, but I haven't felt the need to go into threads about them letting people know I don't like them. It's OK, you don't have to like what is popular, and their is no reason to feel attacked because a lot of people like something you don't.

Lets use a recent comparison of the last time I remember this happening. A few years ago MLP:FiM hit the internet in a big way. Some people liked it, then a lot of people liked it. Then it hit a critical mass that hype backlash started and people started to hate it because everyone else kept going on about it. Not helped by a small number of over zealous fans feeling like they had to counter attack anyone attacking the show.

Now do I like MLP:FiM, no, I haven't watched it. But I don't hate it's fans. Because I realize that it's really only 1% of it's fanbase that are the "crazys", and the rest are fine. But I could understand why the other 99% would get mad if some one made the blanket statement that all MLP:FiM fans are crazy.
 

Silence

Living undeath to the fullest
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Sep 21, 2014
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erttheking said:
I'll put it differently, because maybe that's how he meant it:

Before playing, I (and maybe he too) were like "hmm ... I don't know ... music is kinda overrated ... game looks ugly ... but alright, I'll trust the fanbase who won't tell a single fucking thing about the actual content of the game that other things make up for that, that it is an actual good game.

Then I (and he?) played it. And it was ... utterly mediocre. The fanbase had massively overhyped the game. So this even factored in in the non-enjoyment of the game. The fanbase was utterly obnoxious before (and still is), not even really as a reaction to oneself, just by hyping and hyping it up.

I've met quite a fair bit of friendly fans who won't judge people who didn't like the game, but there are at least an equal amount of fans who just ... hype it even more. And it is utterly annoying, for someone who just "doesn't get it".

Madmanonfire said:
SlumlordThanatos said:
Grampy_bone said:
Dannyjw said:
I tried the demo for undertale and can only assume i didn't "get it".
Undertale is basically the "Oscar-bait" of videogames. Like Gone Home, It's main selling point isn't the gameplay or content, it's the ability to look down your nose at anyone who didn't like it.

You easily spot these games by how insufferably smug their fans are.
I'm stealing this. I never could quite put my finger on why everyone and their brother seems to love this game, and this is the best explanation I've found.
No, you're stealing that because it's an answer you want to agree with, even though it's a bad explanation. The main selling point is the content.

You want an actual good explanation why the game is so popular? It's because the game is that good. From the likable characters, to the catchy music, to the gameplay-altering bosses, to the different way you can choose to deal with monsters, to the amount of detail that was put into the game to reflect almost every little thing you do; Undertale is a high quality experience. If you let a game's fanbase dictate your experience of said game, then it's your own fault that the experience is soured.
Here is the response why the game is not that good. From the likeable characters, only Temmies are really likeable. Toriel is kinda child-stealing and overprotective and what have you not, the skeletons are the height of annoyment (Papyrus is utterly annoying, Sans is just ... well, he would be alright, if he didn't have this obnoxious derp sound for his speech), some other "likeable" characters are just ... attacking you on sight? How likeable. Alphys is just ... get me more steretypes please! And the killbot ... yeah, he's likeable. It's like someone who abuses you and then expects you to change your attitude once they change their looks. Or ... something. Well, that's the "likable" of my experience.

The music is just not that good. It can't decide between synthesized and 16bit, some tunes are catchy, but a lot of them remind me of already existing music, and it isn't unique ...

Gameplay-altering monsters? Did you play with fighting once? It's utterly boring. And if you play pacifist (which, I found out after playing is the only valid way to play but Undertale fans didn't want to spoil, I guess it's better ... but the amount of random encounters still is utterly annoying.
If you don't play pacifist (especially in your first try) the game is only empty. There are several times where you just hold a direction button for several minutes. My playthrough felt like the game was broken. Seriously.

Different ways to deal with monsters is just the same again, unless pacifist has more options.

Some detail is impressive, some ... especially when you don't play pacifist ... it just has no detail. And let it be said here once again. The game's graphics are really ugly.

So what can you take out of it:
Undertale is massively overhyped, if you don't play the game the apparently only "correct" path, it is not a high quality experience, but a mediocre completely linear semi-RPG.
(oh fun fact, one guy told me, after I complained about the linearity, "the game opens up later". It did not. So ... that's for example something people don't like about the fanbase).

And what about the fanbase? Well, it is so much that you can't go into the game ignoring the fanbase especially if it only tells you "play it, I won't tell you nothing." It can be a waste of time. Literally.
And without the fanbase I would probably not even have tried the game, so ... thank the fanbase for massively disappointing me (and others).
 

CrazyPaladin

Member
Apr 24, 2011
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sneakypenguin said:
I disagree with the halo 5 being blandest. It was a refreshing throwback to arena shooters with balance and just tight tight gameplay.
I agree that the gameplay is tight and the game is mechanically sound, but so were pretty much every other halo games. I actually never played halo until 2015, when I bought MCC and played through every title (even reach after it got BCed very recently). My theory is that this franchise evolved so little over the years, that it actually preserved that 2000 some arena shooter feel, and made it quite special among the more modern games.

That being said, I probably had way more fun in halo 5 than any other game released this year, it's got a well designed multiplayer after all. The campaign though is quite blank, especially by halo's standard, but I probably won't put in on the top.
 

John Malakies

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Apr 9, 2014
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Really digging this new category. Worst games and disappointing/not trying hard enough games should be differentiated
 

Silence

Living undeath to the fullest
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Sep 21, 2014
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Also need to add this:

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

Yahtzee is wrong in "go in without knowing anything".
 

jhoroz

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Mar 7, 2012
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Cool list, pretty close to mine. The responses to your number 1 in this thread pretty much what I expected. The anti fanbase for Undertale has grown just as fucking insufferable as the fanbase that loves the game. No one actually here has put down any genuine reasons as to why they like it or hate, other than completely subjective elements such as "I hate/like the musics, I love/hate the characters" etc. I think how much you come out enjoying the game is completely dependent on how much the characters and world grabbed you since the main impact of the game comes from how their fates are all affected from how you play the game and whether you decide to keep playing the game. It's a story that its weight and impact is directly tied to the fact that it's a video game and can only be as impacting as it was BECAUSE its a video game, unlike games that are basically interactive movies such Last of Us, where if you cut out a majority of the cutscenes and present them as one long movie you'll get the same effect if you played it. I am kind of annoyed at how much Undertale has been overhyped (looking at the idiotic Gamefaqs poll) since people will go in expecting the "greatest game ever" instead of judging it for what it is like you should judge all individual pieces of art and entertainment-on what they set out to achieve and whether they accomplished it rather than some arbitrary, vaguely defined level of greatness proclaimed by the "masses".

the silence said:
Also need to add this:

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

Yahtzee is wrong in "go in without knowing anything".
I don't know, this is one of the things I kind of disagree. I think some of the neutral endings are just as impactful as anything in the pacifist and genocide endings, and while you'll definitely get the most story content in your first playthrough by playing pacifist, the amount of endings and variables you can get based on who you did or didn't kill makes a neutral ending more unique and personal to you rather than simply going through all the motions of pacifist neutral-pacifist true-genocide that a lot of people on the internet seem to recommend.

The stuff with Undyne in the neutral ending where she becomes chronically depressed because you murdered everyone she cared about made me feel just as horrible as the shit that happens in genocide, and recommending people go pacifist immediately kind of robs them of moments like this
 

Qizx

Executor
Feb 21, 2011
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Thanatos2k said:
Undertale is absolutely deserving of the best game of the year, and the lengths some people will go to in order to assure you *they* don't think Undertale is that good are just as impressive.
Yes heaven forbid people just don't like the game... I mean it's objectively the best game and anyone who doesn't think so is doing it because.... Why? Why would someone say they dislike a game if they honestly liked it?
Full disclaimer: I haven't played undertale, and have no inkling to do so. People can disagree, some people hate the games I love, some people loved the games I hate. It's the nature of subjective art.
 

sonicneedslovetoo

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Jul 6, 2015
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To those hating on Undertale, look not into the void lest the void stares back at you. Lemme tell you I've seen both sides of the story and I'm already sick to death of people who hate the game because they're bringing it up so often literally ANY TIME its mentioned anywhere at all.
You know what GROW THE HELL UP, I don't like bioware games and I don't like movies anymore but I don't get lippy at people when they won't shut up about the new star wars. I don't run around to people memeing on Star Wars and tell them "you're making all these memes on this movie and I hate it, you should shut up about it" or "its just a cross-guard on a lightsaber god star wars fans are so obnoxious."
 

C117

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Aug 14, 2009
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I was kind of surprised at the placement of Witcher 3, as I seem to remember Yahtzee being a bit down on it in his review. But then I reminded myself that the testament to how good a game really is isn't so much what you think of it when you play it, but rather what you remember of it a few months down the line. After all, I thought Tomb Raider: The Reboot was decent enough when I played it, but afterwards the only thing I really remember is that I hate the main character.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

the silence said:
If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.
100% disagree.

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.
 

Weasker

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Sep 16, 2010
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the silence said:
Here is the response why the game is not that good. From the likeable characters, only Temmies are really likeable. Toriel is kinda child-stealing and overprotective and what have you not, the skeletons are the height of annoyment (Papyrus is utterly annoying, Sans is just ... well, he would be alright, if he didn't have this obnoxious derp sound for his speech), some other "likeable" characters are just ... attacking you on sight? How likeable. Alphys is just ... get me more steretypes please! And the killbot ... yeah, he's likeable. It's like someone who abuses you and then expects you to change your attitude once they change their looks. Or ... something. Well, that's the "likable" of my experience.
The in-game lore tells you an adult is as strong as every monster combined. The monsters lost a war and were sealed.
They see an "enemy" and attack (mostly) out of fear or because the King told them. They have a damn better right to attack you than you have considering you're stronger than any monster and cannot die 'cause you go back in time.

This is called "writing back", seeing the other side of the story. The monsters are "the other", marginal beings. But they're not animals and the game tries to show that even random enemies in this world are living beings.
 

jhoroz

New member
Mar 7, 2012
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aegix drakan said:
Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

the silence said:
If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.
100% disagree.

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.
The thing is, the detractors are just as condescending and holier than thou as the fans when they post such asinine comments as "the equivalent of Oscar bait the video game" and other such bullshit such as how its specifically designed to cater to tumblr hipsters and only such people can enjoy it, and I myself can attest that not only do I not fit the mold but have thoroughly disliked or been ambivalent by previous games that have been given such label (e.g. Life is Strange, Gone Home etc.) and genuinely enjoyed Undertale for what it was and what it set out to do. The whole Oscar Bait comment is a special kind of stupid since Oscar Bait movies are specifically made to appeal to the tastes and politics of award ceremonies, whereas if there's one thing that's blatantly obvious about UT is that Toby Fox made the game he wanted to make and that he would enjoy. So no, I'm sick of how it's "just the fans" that's ruining any discussions around when it's just as much as the other side being as toxic and fucking disingenuous.
 

EternallyBored

Terminally Apathetic
Jun 17, 2013
1,434
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jhoroz said:
aegix drakan said:
Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

the silence said:
If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.
100% disagree.

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.
The thing is, the detractors are just as condescending and holier than thou as the fans when they post such asinine comments as "the equivalent of Oscar bait the video game" and other such bullshit such as how its specifically designed to cater to tumblr hipsters and only such people can enjoy it, and I myself can attest that not only do I not fit the mold but have thoroughly disliked or been ambivalent by previous games that have been given such label (e.g. Life is Strange, Gone Home etc.) and genuinely enjoyed Undertale for what it was and what it set out to do. The whole Oscar Bait comment is a special kind of stupid since Oscar Bait movies are specifically made to appeal to the tastes and politics of award ceremonies, whereas if there's one thing that's blatantly obvious about UT is that Toby Fox made the game he wanted to make and that he would enjoy. So no, I'm sick of how it's "just the fans" that's ruining any discussions around when it's just as much as the other side being as toxic and fucking disingenuous.
We've been around this exact same merry-go-round before, and we'll be on it again in the future. Like MLP and Breaking Bad before this, Call of Duty and Firefly before that, DBZ and anime before that, and all the way back to when sci-fi fans were backlashing against Star Wars fans in the 80's.

The cycle of hype vs. anti-hype always comes around again.

Although yes, the irony of calling out the game as Oscar bait in order to smugly look down on fans while saying fans like the game so they can smugly look down on others is a deliciously delightful way of showcasing how the anti-fans of a hyped up property are often just as bad as the rabid fans they claim to hate. Although rabid fans can certainly still be annoying all by themselves.

Like always, the anti-fans will be called out for being every bit as bad as the rabid fanboys they claim they hate or ruined the property for them, then everything settles down until the next hype train rolls up and we start the cycle all over again with some people switching sides, rabid fans becoming annoying anti-fans, and vice versa.
 

Transdude1996

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Mar 18, 2014
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EMWISE94 said:
Hot damn it didn't take long for this thread to become the Undertale bashing grounds. Personally I haven't played the game nor do I intend for two reasons:

1. It was hyped too much/pitched poorly, I remember back in his Dark Souls review Yahtzee mentioned how one of the annoying things about people pithing DS as a good game was them going "oh its good, but we wont tell you why." which is somewhat similar to how Undertale is usually pitched, that is go in blind and experience it and then be amazed. Thankfully I know WHY the game gets so much praise (its because of its writing, its way of subverting commmon gameplay traits in RPGs etc.) but this was at the expense of me just being exposed to spoilers, which i feel isn't the fault of the game, just the fault of people who don't know how to talk about a game without giving away crucial plot details.

2. I have this odd fear of playing RPGs, not that the concept of RPGs scares me but rather I'm always convinced that I'm playing them wrong somehow, either building my character wrong, or not levelling my party properly etc. A fear I've been slowly curbing but Undertale presents another issue I have and thats games with multiple endings and theres always the definitive 'right' ending and if you don't get that one then you basically got a bad end/game over (though I also know of the Genocide run which IS the bad end so I know its possible to avoid it completely) and I'm not down for that.

But personal reasons aside, I can understand why people enjoy it a lot, also I know that "it was overhyped." might not be a good enough reason to play I've watched shows and played games that people have praised as one of the best things since sliced bread and have come out thinking they were 'meh'.
Your first point is the same reason why I was so turned off from even taking a look at the first Xenoblade Chronicles. Eventually, I caved and did some research on it, but, by then, it was too late. Thankfully Nintendo rereleased the game for the 3DS (Without the exclusive store deal).

Second point, sort of had the same thing when it came to playing any RPG. After a certain amount of play tame, I always had a feeling of "I don't get why this is liked". What broke me out of that phase was when I started playing Grandia and Freedom Wars.

Also, I figured that if Undertale is really that good of a game, I should be relatively easy to find it a few years from now, with a probably superior version of it available.
 

MeisterKleister

Regular Member
Mar 9, 2012
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Seeing the discussions on Undertale's fanbase, I am reminded of what Yahtzee said in his Portal 2 review:
Yahtzee said:
In the time since then and the release of Portal 2, you'll be pleased to hear that I eventually did come up with a criticism for Portal 1: it's got the worst fucking fans in the world. Nothing ruins a good thing quite like knowing you share your opinions with mindless little tits [...]
I didn't really know or care about the fanbase and I am not active in any gaming-related community really. I only started playing Undertale after I read that Jim Sterling gave it a 10/10. Well, and now it's my game of the year 2015.
 

Kingjackl

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Nov 18, 2009
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Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.
 

kenu12345

Seeker of Ancient Knowledge
Aug 3, 2011
573
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Kingjackl said:
Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.
I watched it. It seemed pretty laZy honestly. Especially that ending. You are really not given any reason to care for that guy and the whole plot is sorta laughable