Zero Punctuation: Top 5 Games of 2015

[jhoroz]

Cool list, pretty close to mine. The responses to your number 1 in this thread pretty much what I expected. The anti fanbase for Undertale has grown just as fucking insufferable as the fanbase that loves the game. No one actually here has put down any genuine reasons as to why they like it or hate, other than completely subjective elements such as "I hate/like the musics, I love/hate the characters" etc. I think how much you come out enjoying the game is completely dependent on how much the characters and world grabbed you since the main impact of the game comes from how their fates are all affected from how you play the game and whether you decide to keep playing the game. It's a story that its weight and impact is directly tied to the fact that it's a video game and can only be as impacting as it was BECAUSE its a video game, unlike games that are basically interactive movies such Last of Us, where if you cut out a majority of the cutscenes and present them as one long movie you'll get the same effect if you played it. I am kind of annoyed at how much Undertale has been overhyped (looking at the idiotic Gamefaqs poll) since people will go in expecting the "greatest game ever" instead of judging it for what it is like you should judge all individual pieces of art and entertainment-on what they set out to achieve and whether they accomplished it rather than some arbitrary, vaguely defined level of greatness proclaimed by the "masses".

Also need to add this:

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

Yahtzee is wrong in "go in without knowing anything".

I don't know, this is one of the things I kind of disagree. I think some of the neutral endings are just as impactful as anything in the pacifist and genocide endings, and while you'll definitely get the most story content in your first playthrough by playing pacifist, the amount of endings and variables you can get based on who you did or didn't kill makes a neutral ending more unique and personal to you rather than simply going through all the motions of pacifist neutral-pacifist true-genocide that a lot of people on the internet seem to recommend.

Spoiler

The stuff with Undyne in the neutral ending where she becomes chronically depressed because you murdered everyone she cared about made me feel just as horrible as the shit that happens in genocide, and recommending people go pacifist immediately kind of robs them of moments like this

 

[Eric the Orange]

Yahtzee is wrong in "go in without knowing anything".

Well it's an opinion, it cannot be right or wrong.

 

[Qizx]

Undertale is absolutely deserving of the best game of the year, and the lengths some people will go to in order to assure you *they* don't think Undertale is that good are just as impressive.

Yes heaven forbid people just don't like the game... I mean it's objectively the best game and anyone who doesn't think so is doing it because.... Why? Why would someone say they dislike a game if they honestly liked it?
Full disclaimer: I haven't played undertale, and have no inkling to do so. People can disagree, some people hate the games I love, some people loved the games I hate. It's the nature of subjective art.

 

[sonicneedslovetoo]

To those hating on Undertale, look not into the void lest the void stares back at you. Lemme tell you I've seen both sides of the story and I'm already sick to death of people who hate the game because they're bringing it up so often literally ANY TIME its mentioned anywhere at all.
You know what GROW THE HELL UP, I don't like bioware games and I don't like movies anymore but I don't get lippy at people when they won't shut up about the new star wars. I don't run around to people memeing on Star Wars and tell them "you're making all these memes on this movie and I hate it, you should shut up about it" or "its just a cross-guard on a lightsaber god star wars fans are so obnoxious."

 

[C117]

I was kind of surprised at the placement of Witcher 3, as I seem to remember Yahtzee being a bit down on it in his review. But then I reminded myself that the testament to how good a game really is isn't so much what you think of it when you play it, but rather what you remember of it a few months down the line. After all, I thought Tomb Raider: The Reboot was decent enough when I played it, but afterwards the only thing I really remember is that I hate the main character.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

100% disagree.

Spoiler

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.

 

[Weasker]

Here is the response why the game is not that good. From the likeable characters, only Temmies are really likeable. Toriel is kinda child-stealing and overprotective and what have you not, the skeletons are the height of annoyment (Papyrus is utterly annoying, Sans is just ... well, he would be alright, if he didn't have this obnoxious derp sound for his speech), some other "likeable" characters are just ... attacking you on sight? How likeable. Alphys is just ... get me more steretypes please! And the killbot ... yeah, he's likeable. It's like someone who abuses you and then expects you to change your attitude once they change their looks. Or ... something. Well, that's the "likable" of my experience.

The in-game lore tells you an adult is as strong as every monster combined. The monsters lost a war and were sealed.
They see an "enemy" and attack (mostly) out of fear or because the King told them. They have a damn better right to attack you than you have considering you're stronger than any monster and cannot die 'cause you go back in time.

This is called "writing back", seeing the other side of the story. The monsters are "the other", marginal beings. But they're not animals and the game tries to show that even random enemies in this world are living beings.

 

[jhoroz]

Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

100% disagree.

Spoiler

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.

The thing is, the detractors are just as condescending and holier than thou as the fans when they post such asinine comments as "the equivalent of Oscar bait the video game" and other such bullshit such as how its specifically designed to cater to tumblr hipsters and only such people can enjoy it, and I myself can attest that not only do I not fit the mold but have thoroughly disliked or been ambivalent by previous games that have been given such label (e.g. Life is Strange, Gone Home etc.) and genuinely enjoyed Undertale for what it was and what it set out to do. The whole Oscar Bait comment is a special kind of stupid since Oscar Bait movies are specifically made to appeal to the tastes and politics of award ceremonies, whereas if there's one thing that's blatantly obvious about UT is that Toby Fox made the game he wanted to make and that he would enjoy. So no, I'm sick of how it's "just the fans" that's ruining any discussions around when it's just as much as the other side being as toxic and fucking disingenuous.

 

[EternallyBored]

Guys, leave SlumlordThanatos alone already. He tried it, he didn't like it, that's his personal decision.

Leave him be already.

And to the handful of UT fans in this thread who are acting like "holier than thou" jerks, stop. You missed the entire point of the goddamn game you profess to love so much.

I love it too, I think it's the best game I've played all year. It's a phenomenal experience. But I recognize that not everyone will like it, and that some people just won't "click" with it, and trying to talk down to people in that way is just being an asshole and making all the fans look bad.

If you consider playing Undertale after this list, play Pacifist first. Do not attempt otherwise. Otherwise you will have a bad utterly mediocre time.

100% disagree.

Spoiler

I played a neutral run first, loved it, then played the whole game again sparing everything, and enjoyed it even more. Why? Because the game remembers you had a first playthrough, and it's always fun to see what little changes happen along the way. It also makes the Pacifist ending even sweeter, as you literally went back and fixed all the previous mistakes you made just to give the characters a happy ending.

The thing is, the detractors are just as condescending and holier than thou as the fans when they post such asinine comments as "the equivalent of Oscar bait the video game" and other such bullshit such as how its specifically designed to cater to tumblr hipsters and only such people can enjoy it, and I myself can attest that not only do I not fit the mold but have thoroughly disliked or been ambivalent by previous games that have been given such label (e.g. Life is Strange, Gone Home etc.) and genuinely enjoyed Undertale for what it was and what it set out to do. The whole Oscar Bait comment is a special kind of stupid since Oscar Bait movies are specifically made to appeal to the tastes and politics of award ceremonies, whereas if there's one thing that's blatantly obvious about UT is that Toby Fox made the game he wanted to make and that he would enjoy. So no, I'm sick of how it's "just the fans" that's ruining any discussions around when it's just as much as the other side being as toxic and fucking disingenuous.

We've been around this exact same merry-go-round before, and we'll be on it again in the future. Like MLP and Breaking Bad before this, Call of Duty and Firefly before that, DBZ and anime before that, and all the way back to when sci-fi fans were backlashing against Star Wars fans in the 80's.

The cycle of hype vs. anti-hype always comes around again.

Although yes, the irony of calling out the game as Oscar bait in order to smugly look down on fans while saying fans like the game so they can smugly look down on others is a deliciously delightful way of showcasing how the anti-fans of a hyped up property are often just as bad as the rabid fans they claim to hate. Although rabid fans can certainly still be annoying all by themselves.

Like always, the anti-fans will be called out for being every bit as bad as the rabid fanboys they claim they hate or ruined the property for them, then everything settles down until the next hype train rolls up and we start the cycle all over again with some people switching sides, rabid fans becoming annoying anti-fans, and vice versa.

 

[Transdude1996]

Hot damn it didn't take long for this thread to become the Undertale bashing grounds. Personally I haven't played the game nor do I intend for two reasons:

1. It was hyped too much/pitched poorly, I remember back in his Dark Souls review Yahtzee mentioned how one of the annoying things about people pithing DS as a good game was them going "oh its good, but we wont tell you why." which is somewhat similar to how Undertale is usually pitched, that is go in blind and experience it and then be amazed. Thankfully I know WHY the game gets so much praise (its because of its writing, its way of subverting commmon gameplay traits in RPGs etc.) but this was at the expense of me just being exposed to spoilers, which i feel isn't the fault of the game, just the fault of people who don't know how to talk about a game without giving away crucial plot details.

2. I have this odd fear of playing RPGs, not that the concept of RPGs scares me but rather I'm always convinced that I'm playing them wrong somehow, either building my character wrong, or not levelling my party properly etc. A fear I've been slowly curbing but Undertale presents another issue I have and thats games with multiple endings and theres always the definitive 'right' ending and if you don't get that one then you basically got a bad end/game over (though I also know of the Genocide run which IS the bad end so I know its possible to avoid it completely) and I'm not down for that.

But personal reasons aside, I can understand why people enjoy it a lot, also I know that "it was overhyped." might not be a good enough reason to play I've watched shows and played games that people have praised as one of the best things since sliced bread and have come out thinking they were 'meh'.

Your first point is the same reason why I was so turned off from even taking a look at the first Xenoblade Chronicles. Eventually, I caved and did some research on it, but, by then, it was too late. Thankfully Nintendo rereleased the game for the 3DS (Without the exclusive store deal).

Second point, sort of had the same thing when it came to playing any RPG. After a certain amount of play tame, I always had a feeling of "I don't get why this is liked". What broke me out of that phase was when I started playing Grandia and Freedom Wars.

Also, I figured that if Undertale is really that good of a game, I should be relatively easy to find it a few years from now, with a probably superior version of it available.

 

[MeisterKleister]

Seeing the discussions on Undertale's fanbase, I am reminded of what Yahtzee said in his Portal 2 review:

In the time since then and the release of Portal 2, you'll be pleased to hear that I eventually did come up with a criticism for Portal 1: it's got the worst fucking fans in the world. Nothing ruins a good thing quite like knowing you share your opinions with mindless little tits [...]

I didn't really know or care about the fanbase and I am not active in any gaming-related community really. I only started playing Undertale after I read that Jim Sterling gave it a 10/10. Well, and now it's my game of the year 2015.

 

[Vicioussama]

Undertale is good, but best game of the year? God no lol.

 

[Flames66]

In Swindon

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFT!! *spits tea*

That's a bit harsh innit?

 

[Kingjackl]

Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.

 

[kenu12345]

Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.

I watched it. It seemed pretty laZy honestly. Especially that ending. You are really not given any reason to care for that guy and the whole plot is sorta laughable

 

[EternallyBored]

Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.

considering that you are playing an avatar who's arms are seen in the game, and the computer you play on is a computer within the game rather than your actual computer, well I don't see any 4th wall breaking so far, undertale talks to you directly as the player, pony island seems to be talking to the fictional avatar whose hands you see briefly, maybe I've missed it but from the steam videos and Jim's squirty play, there is no 4th wall breaking so far. I have also seen nothing to indicate that it is a satire of anything, I'm wondering where you got that, the game presents right up front that the actual pony island stuff is just the facade the gameplay is hung around, by the same token, I am curious what you think it is deconstructing, it seems to be a puzzle game, and its not really deconstructing puzzle games as a genre, and its story seems to be pretty up front about what's going on.

It seems more like a straight-up puzzle game that uses fucking with the game to tell a story about a guy trying to beat satan at a video game, it uses that to screw with the game within a game mechanics, but nothing I've seen so far talks to the player directly. Maybe there's some 4th wall breaking or satire later on, but it definitely isn't deconstructing a genre the same way Undertale attempted to do with RPGs. At least not from what I've seen.

As for the comments about GOTY, ehh, that's pretty standard, for the first 4 or so months of the year, any good game released is going to have critics saying "it looks like we already have a contender for (insert year here)'s game of the Year". I got 20 bucks that says the same phrase will be thrown around with abandon if Xcom 2 is even just a little above average.

 

[Kingjackl]

Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.

I watched it. It seemed pretty laZy honestly. Especially that ending. You are really not given any reason to care for that guy and the whole plot is sorta laughable

I dunno, I was just being the hipster. And also perhaps taking the piss out of the attitude that Undertale is mainly popular among smug alternatives. It's actually got a pretty broad appeal if you ask me; skill-based gameplay, a simple story, accessible sense of humour. The deconstruction-y aspects that are played up in reviews are mainly played for laughs.

Whereas that Pony Island game looks more like the thing people who hate Undertale's popularity accuse it of being.

 

[kenu12345]

Hey, Undertale's old news guys. 'Pony Island' is where the true deconstructionist fourth-wall breaking satire of indie gaming is at.

No, that's not a joke there's actually a game like that. Jim Sterling just did a video on it, already calling it a potential GOTY contender for 2016.

I watched it. It seemed pretty laZy honestly. Especially that ending. You are really not given any reason to care for that guy and the whole plot is sorta laughable

I dunno, I was just being the hipster. And also perhaps taking the piss out of the attitude that Undertale is mainly popular among smug alternatives. It's actually got a pretty broad appeal if you ask me; skill-based gameplay, a simple story, accessible sense of humour. The deconstruction-y aspects that are played up in reviews are mainly played for laughs.

Whereas that Pony Island game looks more like the thing people who hate Undertale's popularity accuse it of being.

Ah true. My mistake man X3 but yeah I watched the whole Pony Island story and seemed like standard creepy pasta game game. I am a bit thick at times and wasn't able to pick that up. Pologies

 

[mrdude2010]

It's not a great sign that the best post-Halo 3 Halo game was just the first few Halos again, but on the same disk.

 

[Zjarcal]

I WANTED the game's fanbase to dictate my experience with this game, but the only thing I could get out of anyone was "Just try it, you'll like it!"

Why on earth would you want other people to dictate your own experiences?

>.>

Personally I just ignore fanbases altogether because there isn't a single one out there that isn't annoying, don't wanna mix my own experiences with that shit.

Undertale is awesome doe.