Zero Punctuation: Webcomics
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
@ Jack Spencer Jr
Excellent points - and I think you're right about the punchline placement - they are both different joke attempts, not the same joke attempt. They are both unfunny, but I find the PA one more to my taste given a choice, due to the fact that CAD is always the same. Having read various CAD strips, all CAD strips are instantly unfunny as they are the same 'joke' repeated. Usually ends with character A stabbing, shooting, maiming etc. character B in some moronic way. Therefore CAD loses out everytime.
But that's not the issue, we're all in agreement, it is about the method of delivery, rather than the delivery itself. They aren't funny but depending on taste and other factors one would always win over another. It's very subjective in that regard.
Excellent points - and I think you're right about the punchline placement - they are both different joke attempts, not the same joke attempt. They are both unfunny, but I find the PA one more to my taste given a choice, due to the fact that CAD is always the same. Having read various CAD strips, all CAD strips are instantly unfunny as they are the same 'joke' repeated. Usually ends with character A stabbing, shooting, maiming etc. character B in some moronic way. Therefore CAD loses out everytime.
But that's not the issue, we're all in agreement, it is about the method of delivery, rather than the delivery itself. They aren't funny but depending on taste and other factors one would always win over another. It's very subjective in that regard.
Umm, I bet a ton of people already said this, but Tim from CAD had a girlfriend who miscarried his unborn child. That's where he got the storyline from. Granted, it is a shift from the gaming humor but if you actually read all of the comics or at least enough to get the underlying storyline. Then you would understand that it wasn't all comics about games and then out of the clear blue sky a miscarriage is dumped in to make everyone sad, which is as how Yahtzee portrays it.
@ Jack Spencer Jr.
Alrighty, first and foremost, no one is talking about how often a joke is made. It's the execution. If we're going by "Oh, so and so already did that." Then every comedy act possible has been done, with slight variations popping up in the future that only differ in that they reference things that exist then, but not now. How frequently a joke is made isn't that important compared to how the joke is told/expressed/what have you.
...So, your second paragraph is saying that you need the joke explained? Well, you know, if that's your bag man, whatever. Feel free to enjoy the brand of comedy you prefer, but when complaining about nuance, the subject at hand should have a level of subtlety. Both comics lack this in the extreme. As for the next paragraph, what would those two panels have accomplished? Yes, we all understand that they're going to fight. We don't need someone to explain the concept further with words OR pretty pictures. A warrior has drawn his weapon and recited threatening poetry in the presence of a fierce monster. He's either going to try to kill it or get into its pants. Why would the "rushing panels" add something more?
The gag of the strip is that A) Stabbing. The "punch-line" is so telegraphed it may as well have been a fighter in the "Punch-Out" line of games...And don't bring up "The wife" or "My buddy". That's a fallacious argument, and shall not fly. If we're going that route, I may as well reference "My buddy" that laughs at the name Sean Jones...The name isn't inherently funny, but he finds it so. We all know at least two or three people with similar tastes, but that only proves that we hang out with people we can relate to. Just to clarify, I'm not a fan of ANYONE using arguments like that, period.
To summarize further, CAD could have been "Dur hur hur, stabby" which isn't at all played out. In fact, we can do this with a bunch of comedians. Carlin could be "Dur hur hur, swearing" Robin Williams could be "Dur hur hur MANIC!" and Carlos Mencia could be "Dur hur hur, Dee de dee"...huh. Ignoring that last one, predictability shouldn't play a role in a joke, except to defy said predictability. If you know what's coming, it's not funny. As it's been stated, a punch line should hit you and run away. If you see a punch coming, unless you have terrible reflexes, you're going to get out of the way or at least TRY to move. Same thing with a joke. If you see it coming it really shouldn't hit its mark.
@ Shadow Thief
Read the comics archive and you'll see what I'm referring to in the next couple paragraphs. Regardless of the source of the story (Which...You know, I'm not even going into THAT aspect again.) the comic relied heavily on "Gaming Humor" and only switched to story arcs every once in a while. You could almost feel an audible *clunk* when it shifted back and forth. The miscarriage storyline was also in no way referenced as a way to "make people sad" It was more "You'd have to be a bloody idiot, and a jagoff to boot to even THINK about doing a story like this." To cheapen the whole deal further, I'm going to relate what you've said to something else...Captain Planet.
"Granted, it is a shift from the environmental message, but if you actually watch all of the episodes or at least enough to get the underlying storyline. Then you would understand that it wasn't all episodes about the environment and then out of the clear blue sky a gang violence or aids story is dumped in..."
See what I'm talking about?
Alrighty, first and foremost, no one is talking about how often a joke is made. It's the execution. If we're going by "Oh, so and so already did that." Then every comedy act possible has been done, with slight variations popping up in the future that only differ in that they reference things that exist then, but not now. How frequently a joke is made isn't that important compared to how the joke is told/expressed/what have you.
...So, your second paragraph is saying that you need the joke explained? Well, you know, if that's your bag man, whatever. Feel free to enjoy the brand of comedy you prefer, but when complaining about nuance, the subject at hand should have a level of subtlety. Both comics lack this in the extreme. As for the next paragraph, what would those two panels have accomplished? Yes, we all understand that they're going to fight. We don't need someone to explain the concept further with words OR pretty pictures. A warrior has drawn his weapon and recited threatening poetry in the presence of a fierce monster. He's either going to try to kill it or get into its pants. Why would the "rushing panels" add something more?
The gag of the strip is that A) Stabbing. The "punch-line" is so telegraphed it may as well have been a fighter in the "Punch-Out" line of games...And don't bring up "The wife" or "My buddy". That's a fallacious argument, and shall not fly. If we're going that route, I may as well reference "My buddy" that laughs at the name Sean Jones...The name isn't inherently funny, but he finds it so. We all know at least two or three people with similar tastes, but that only proves that we hang out with people we can relate to. Just to clarify, I'm not a fan of ANYONE using arguments like that, period.
To summarize further, CAD could have been "Dur hur hur, stabby" which isn't at all played out. In fact, we can do this with a bunch of comedians. Carlin could be "Dur hur hur, swearing" Robin Williams could be "Dur hur hur MANIC!" and Carlos Mencia could be "Dur hur hur, Dee de dee"...huh. Ignoring that last one, predictability shouldn't play a role in a joke, except to defy said predictability. If you know what's coming, it's not funny. As it's been stated, a punch line should hit you and run away. If you see a punch coming, unless you have terrible reflexes, you're going to get out of the way or at least TRY to move. Same thing with a joke. If you see it coming it really shouldn't hit its mark.
@ Shadow Thief
Read the comics archive and you'll see what I'm referring to in the next couple paragraphs. Regardless of the source of the story (Which...You know, I'm not even going into THAT aspect again.) the comic relied heavily on "Gaming Humor" and only switched to story arcs every once in a while. You could almost feel an audible *clunk* when it shifted back and forth. The miscarriage storyline was also in no way referenced as a way to "make people sad" It was more "You'd have to be a bloody idiot, and a jagoff to boot to even THINK about doing a story like this." To cheapen the whole deal further, I'm going to relate what you've said to something else...Captain Planet.
"Granted, it is a shift from the environmental message, but if you actually watch all of the episodes or at least enough to get the underlying storyline. Then you would understand that it wasn't all episodes about the environment and then out of the clear blue sky a gang violence or aids story is dumped in..."
See what I'm talking about?
Is it just me, or are some of you just being idiots? Dude, Ctrl+Alt+Del can either be good or bad. It's a little something called personal opinion. 15 pages in and I already think Tempdude0 or whatever your name is, just remove yourself from the gene pool, please? Arguing on the interwebs isn't hardcore, or awesome or whatever. Either stop, or remove =]
Btw, Yahtzee did only refer to gaming webcomics. If you want a decent read: <a ref=www.questionablecontent.net>Questionable Content.
Btw, Yahtzee did only refer to gaming webcomics. If you want a decent read: <a ref=www.questionablecontent.net>Questionable Content.
God every single strip of CAD I've seen has been aweful XD A determined lack of proper punch lines, poorly executed violent humor, and comics like that one where Buckley proclamed himself the King of All Gamers rather than a Generic Corperation. He reminds me of that utterly demented Game Designer who wheres a crown and insists that people call of Lord British. I mean the fact that's he's horribly fucking pretentious fuckwit and all of his art is essentially copy and paste art with a google images background isn't a deal breaker exactly, but seeing as he can't do the things that matter right it's just comes off as the most intollerable part of his whole operation (in the arts case it comes off as intollerally lazy), not to mention that a miscarrage arc is the worst idea ever. I honestly thought it was one of Yahtzee's brilliantly used exagerations, as no one could possibly be that stupid.
Still though, my favorite part of this thread was how some CAD Troll came in about 13 pages back or so and made the shocking discovery. Not all of the complaints in this video apply to CAD! And therefor this review isn't a very good constant slight against CAD that claims it's not an exlusive slight against CAD because it doesn't constantly critize CAD, instead only taking the one direct blow to the worst possible idea a Webcomic Artist's ever had.
Still though, my favorite part of this thread was how some CAD Troll came in about 13 pages back or so and made the shocking discovery. Not all of the complaints in this video apply to CAD! And therefor this review isn't a very good constant slight against CAD that claims it's not an exlusive slight against CAD because it doesn't constantly critize CAD, instead only taking the one direct blow to the worst possible idea a Webcomic Artist's ever had.
This was great enough to lure me into registering. I really enjoy Penny Arcade, but CAD is horrible. There is no humor! Only ill-conceived story lines and gigantic speech bubbles. Tim Buckley must have looked at Penny Arcade and thought, "Hey, this is great, except for the wit, the enjoyable art, and the lack of taking oneself too seriously."
EDIT: I said some stuff here... But I take it all back. Lapse of judgement or something - but I'd rather not be a part of this... What's the point really?
Come on people, is it so hard to understand that people have different views on things? What are we, Scientologists?
I think I'm going to throw up.
How did this get nearly 900 replies?
People have separate opinions, I myself find nearly all Webcomics terrible, CAD being near the bottom, but I'm not about to go and ***** about it on a forum because Yahtzee did a video about it.
Honestly you people are like the normal fans of Yahtzee who'll laugh and call fanboys 'butthurt', only to rage like the fist of the north star because your favourite game got criticised, however poorly.
How did this get nearly 900 replies?
People have separate opinions, I myself find nearly all Webcomics terrible, CAD being near the bottom, but I'm not about to go and ***** about it on a forum because Yahtzee did a video about it.
Honestly you people are like the normal fans of Yahtzee who'll laugh and call fanboys 'butthurt', only to rage like the fist of the north star because your favourite game got criticised, however poorly.
So, I made an point by point argument, taking care to not actually be an asshat, and it's "not worth it." Oye, if you're not going to defend a statement, why make it?Jack Spencer Jr said:
The idea is that you should be able to reasonably discuss something without it devolving into shitty back and forth raging...Also, that last comparison doesn't really make sense. It only works if everyone is playing favorites. Some of us here don't try to defend our guilty pleasures, we know exactly what we're enjoying...We just don't care that it's crappy.Opacic said:
As clarification, I'm not referring to CAD as my guilty pleasure, god no.
I already made two absurdly lengthy posts stating my position. If you still don't get it, you will not be get a third.Tempdude0 said:
Incidentally, that care you took resulted in such failure that Mike Myers is probably going to sue you for copyright infringement. You'll probably have an easier time if you put the socks on first and then your shoes.
So, you're saying that since you've already explained it, it stands on its own merits. Nice. Way to doge the questions, you lazy bastard. As for my "care" it only extended to my not being constantly insulting, that's about it. Since we apparently can't do this a nice, rational way, I'm just going to say that A) Meyers is still a draw for people, so at least I'd be making money if the two of us were comparable, and B)Insults work a tad better if you don't sound like a kid on the playground...Then again since you're running what appears to be an unbalanced Hawk-eye as your icon, I can't say for certain you aren't fresh off the pavement.Jack Spencer Jr said:
Free time and nothing much else to do. It's an easy way to waste ten minutes.Dhomochevsky said:
Hmm... That's a good point. Having not read that much of the strip, I haven't noticed that this is a joke the guy goes for every time when he doesn't know what else to do. Much like how SinFest has strips where character each say one word of a single sentence. But upon reflection, the few strips I did browse did seem to use this gag a bit. I just found the strip not very good for other reasons and didn't notice and grow tired of this trend.Plowking said:
Yes, which is my point. Yahtzee used these two strips to demonstrate how poor Ctrl+Alt+Del is, but I don't think his argument holds much water in this particular case. If anything, it demonstrates that Ctrl+Alt+Del is a little better just joke structure-wise in that instead of doing the typical game humor as he mentions in the video, apply real world logic to games with "hilarious" result, which is all the Penny Arcade strip does, Ctrl+Alt+Del starts with that situation and then takes it somewhere. Granted he takes it to his tired, old go-to gag, but I do appreciate the attempt to build off of the clichéd gaming comic humor rather than just reheating it like leftover meatloaf.
But this may be giving Buckley too much credit. I would have to look at more of his work before I could tell if this was the work of an actual creative decision or a total accident. But I'm not gonna do that.
Oooh, a thread full of self-important, clueless, ponderously leaden and depressingly humourless raging. Go see the "someone's wrong on the internet" XKCD, while those of us who arrived late check to see if we packed our carefaces.
"When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.."
(s/elephants/trekkies/ and s/grass/interwebs/)
"When elephants fight, it is the grass that suffers.."
(s/elephants/trekkies/ and s/grass/interwebs/)
I disagree, that's what Penny Arcade USED to do, I provide counterpoints and examples where Penny Arcade has, unlike other gaming webcomics, truly broken the mold of what a "gaming" webcomic can do... and still be funny.Jack Spencer Jr said:
Paint the Line
Cardboard Tube Samurai
Twisp & Catsby
The Last Christmas
The Deep Crow Storyline
Dr. Raven Darktalon Blood
Mostly these are examples where Penny Arcade tries to be more than a gaming webcomic. It is also MUCH more well drawn that CAD, which gives it major points.