When I think of existential threats, warning labels are not something that necessarily comes up. As far as I'm concerned, what we are witnessing is some minor growing pains in the entertainment industry as it becomes truly global and a new equilibrium and status quo will be reached one way or another. Regardless, people will still make art and some of it will still be transgressive.
Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled
- Thread starter Johnny Novgorod
- Start date
It used to be against Twitch TOS for women Streamers to stream without a shirt / top on and her thighs now 100% covered.
As a reminder this got a streamer banned from twitch in the past.
That clip there. That's it. That shows how much the standards have changed without clear rules.
As for doxxing and harassment. No people keep trying to deflect by throwing out the strawman claim that people are actually just wanting to ban valid criticism.
So about the fact Quentin Tarantino himself has come out against the idea of woke culture?............
Except in this case it's based on the assumption the CEO knew enough of what was going on and refused to act and people want his him gone because of that assumption.
Now I don't buy Ubisoft games due to the Microtransactions anyway.
But in this case people want the CEO gone because of something he might have known was going on. Not that there's any evidence he did just that he might.
However people can choose to buy or not buy products for whatever reason they like. What I find weird is why Ubisoft? Why them when many other companies have had similar controversies? Why are people so determined with Ubisoft when arguably Ubisoft addressed the claims more openly and strongly than other companies and vowed to try and learn from mistakes and do better.
Nah the issue people take is less being the butt of jokes and more "You made this we gonna tear it down cause we can and it shows how we dominate now". It'd be like going "Yeh I'm an artist now and my first work of art will be to rip the Mona Lisa out of it's frame and shit on it because it was made by a culture I don't like and think should be gone thus I'm taking the Mona Lisa and making it part of my art now by destroying and defacing it"
...do you just not pay attention to movies being released these days or...?
Like, Marvel's doing the "yeah, one of the duo is racist and is growing out of it thing" in the Bucky/Sam tv show. Marvel, supposed poster child of the woke left, is doing the thing you claim isn't being done.
Get sidk for a day and there's almost another 10 pages. Well, this is a lively thread and am now surprised it hasn't been locked.
As to Rush Hour, most movies today are about people overcoming their racism. Raya the Last dragon was the last one I saw a couple of weeks ago. It spends much of the run time telling the main character that their prejudices are bad. What on earth are you talking about? Of course there is that message in today's movies
What's the controversy about American Pie? That there are too many white people in it? Sure are. Enjoying it all you want. Doesn't stop it from being too white people. It's too separate issues
So... You're cranky that minorities get to play minorities instead of straight white men? I mean, that sure is a take.
As to Rush Hour, most movies today are about people overcoming their racism. Raya the Last dragon was the last one I saw a couple of weeks ago. It spends much of the run time telling the main character that their prejudices are bad. What on earth are you talking about? Of course there is that message in today's movies
What's the controversy about American Pie? That there are too many white people in it? Sure are. Enjoying it all you want. Doesn't stop it from being too white people. It's too separate issues
Points to Thunder Cats Roar
Points to the general attitude of "It's ours now pissbabbies"
The entire approach of "Fixing properties" and claiming how bad the olds ones were is just that attitude on show and the attempt to defend what they know is trash
Hell here's a youtube video about the phenomena
You want a more on the nose example, there's the Fallists
Their idea to "Decolonise Science" because they see it as racist is to restart Science from scratch.
It is out of your control because your money is going towards political candidates no matter what you do.
It's not just getting lunch with coworkers, it's like everything you do socially whether having a pizza party or a BBQ, going bowling or playing pool, going ziplining, going on vacation, and just an endless amount of things. Are you checking where every penny of yours goes?
I wasn't saying trans issues aren't important to people or shouldn't be important to people. I'm saying getting mad at someone for donating to a political party that puts forth bad legislation is pretty ridiculous because 1) you have no idea why they donated (there's no reason to claim Scott is anti-trans) and 2) both parties put forth bad legislation. If you're gonna judge people that much, then you're going spend so much of your life judging people, it ends up being rather unhealthy.
When did I say people shouldn't give any shits about anything? That wasn't my point. I care enough about things that I don't vote for either party, I wish most people cared as much as I do about things. I'm not gonna "cancel" 150 million Americans because of it though. Explain to me how the gap in wealth improves during democrat control vs republican control. During covid, that wealth gap was less in republican states, just saying.
Like I said right above, it's not that you shouldn't care about XYZ, it's that you shouldn't get mad at someone else for not caring about XYZ (especially when it's not some important macro-level issue).
Hell, Tropic Thunder couldn't even be made today, and that's pretty fucking sad.
Ha, I don't get fucking Chick-fil-A either. I went there once and the chicken sandwich was probably only slightly better than like a Wendy's chicken sandwich, I totally don't understand how that place is so packed.
I'm not, I don't care about sides. If you actually talk and get to know most people, you'll find that most people are generally nice and don't want harm to come to anyone. Even the people that you'd probably think are the worst people in the world (Trump supporters that legit think the election was stolen) are generally good people when you just talk to them like you would anyone else. I know this because I know one of them and play board games every Saturday with them.
Could be, but as to why cancel culture exploded, and how, I'd posit the following, based on everything I've read and seen:
-First, cancel culture is as old as time, even if we haven't called it that. Shaming for beliefs/association/suppression of ideas? Hardly new. Even in living memory, we have examples of it - it was before my time, but remember the Satanic Panic? Violent films and games? Moral puritans not content with criticizing the stuff, but actively trying to get it removed? Cancel culture. As I've said, the right wields cancel culture as readily as the left. However, what's going on now, I'd argue is a conflux of numerous factors:
1: Millennials have had it tough in the US - wages have stagnated, cost of living has gone up. I say in the US, because most of what we're discussing is in the US, and is emanating from the US, and has so far 'infected' the UK.
2: Most of the activity comes from late Millennials and Gen Z. These are people who grew up with the Internet, which, ipso facto, made it easier to find like-minded people, and to filter out opinions they disagree with. Furthermore, intellectual diverisity at universities has plummeted since the 1960s. I can't remember the exact figures, but when people say the universities are liberal/left-wing...well, they are. This isn't some Republican talking point, this is statistically true. It's arguably always been true, but the result means that students going to uni in the 2000s and 2010s would be exposed to fewer ideas than they might have been in the past.
3: Culture of safetyism. Again, this is based on what I've read (again, see Coddling of the American Mind), but something shifted in the 90s - fear of crime went up, as rate of crime went down. You raise a group of people in fear of danger, and they're going to start seeing danger everywhere.
4: Come the 2010s, and we get our first warning signs with Gamergate (well, warning signs for me at least), where we see a mini culture war brewing online. Two years later, Trump's elected, and it's been argued that a lot of that was driven as backlash to Obama, which in turn, delivers backlash from the left. Because to be frank, the US is in a culture war. That isn't just my take, nor hyperbole, it's a take that I've seen backed up from numerous sources, when you look at voter polarization, media fragmentation, and the like. Only recently there was a book published (forget its name, sorry) about the idea of there being "four Americas," with each 'group' having such a different view on the country they're irreconciable. There's the people in the middle, but there's also the people on the fringes. On one side, "America is great, God is great, any criticism is sedition, don't like it, leave," and on the other, "the country was founded on genocide, it's rotten to the core, we have to burn it down and start over again." In this environment, you're going to see 'your side' as "good," and the 'other side' as "bad," and when you enter that mindset, all bets are off.
5: So come average Joe who's dealing with the daily shit of daily life, who has very little power, who, if they fall into either of the extreme sides, might feel completely helpless. Perhaps they're angry that Donald Trump hasn't been persecuted, and is still walking free. Or perhaps they're angry that they're constantly told that they're racist, sexist, and privilaged, despite not feeling any of that, or having done anything that could be called that. They can't change the wider world, but they can gang up on the little people. I can't take Donald Trump down, but I can take down this one person who said this one thing and make their life hell, and do so with a bunch of like-minded people, because thanks to the Internet, I have the power to do so. Because that's what really sucks about cancel culture, at least in its modern form. The less influence you have, the easier it is to be cancelled. And to those doubting this, look across this thread, and ask how many people were in positions of actual power? I'd wager, not many.
Of course, this is just me, compiling various theses from various sources. I could be wrong. I wouldn't be surprised if someone quotes this and tells me how wrong I am. And hey, I at least have the option of 'opting out' from the online culture war, but that doesn't help people who can't.
Well, okay, but there's the flipside of this as well.
Ghostbusters 2016? Last Jedi? Battlefield V? Star Trek Discovery? There's countless examples where works of media carry out any deviation from the 'norm,' and are lacerated for it, with people screaming everyone from "the feminist agenda" to "forced diversity" (FFS, what even IS forced diversity?)
Said it before, and I'll say it again, SJWs and SQWs are two sides of the same coin. So on one side, you get stuff like The Heights, where people force Lin Manuel Miranda to apologize for there not being enough Afro-Latinos. On the other, you get Last Jedi, where manbabies did a "men's only cut" because they were that insecure. And it's just...so...tiring.
Shockingly, I have yet to personally donate to a political campaign and nobody's forced me too.
"If you aren't a being of perfect knowledge then don't bother doing anything"
Nah man, I'm still not gonna buy an Ubisoft game.
It probably is a minority. Look at the statistics of people who fall into ultra conservative and ultra progressive, and it generally is. Most people fall into the centre. But then, as this thread has shown, it only takes a small minority to make a loud enough noise to ruin someone's life. Heck, I could probably ruin someone's life by myself by going on someone's Twitter, scroll down long enough until I find something that I can use as 'ammo,' spread it around, and get them fired.
I mean, God's sake people, you don't have anything better to do? You're like Ned Flanders scanning the TV channels for anything offensive, except you're younger, secular, and are using a computer instead. And yes, this goes for people both on the left and right. I mean, there's these YouTube channels whose job is apparently to scour the media for anything 'too woke' and make a 20 minute video of it, and...God, let a life!
Heck, HAMILTON couldn't be made today.
(No really, I'm semi-serious. It's kind of surreal seeing how, in six years, Hamilton went from progressive darling to progressive pariah, with the #CancelHamilton trend in 2020.)
One flaw in the argument: Hamilton is still running. It was and is a liberal darling with sold out shows. What happened is that liberal spinelessness alienated a *lot* of progressives recently so a feel-good play about the founding of the United States started hitting different.
You know I'm going to offer a suggestion for the whole rise of cancel culture thing.
A more interconnected world and the increased perceived lack of meaning in people's lives and desire to leave an impact.
I've left my impact, tiny as it may be and likely only coming up in 50+ years in some overworked students paper where he cites the paper I somehow got my name on that basically reads "Ton's on distinguished Scientists and some idiot undergrad student (me)". That's it that's my mark and I doubt it's going to end up much bigger.
Problem is with social media it's created a case of people seeing those who are big or successful or could leave a better remembered mark and they're realising how little impact they have and are able to see others posting all these cool things they've done or achievements they've managed and then they look at what they've done and feel bad so they decide they want to make a difference in the world and the easiest way to even be a footnate in history is to be seen as one to help take down something big and be the good person doing it, slaying the evil or whatever.
There's no proverbial dragons left to slay. Little left to really explore on earth. No massive wars to fight for your country and die in to feel you have purpose and will in some way be remembered so people are looking to try and be heroes by taking down "Bad guys" because what impact on history will they leave with their minimum wage Starbucks job (Not that I'm dissing people who do said jobs, just pointing out it doesn't have the best career progression or impact on the world). People have gone from competing in a local area to on a global scale on social media. To give an example where I was at one point training to teach the school's local area had a 60-70% unemployment rate or so I was told. People worked on the Ferry, the train station, the school, the town shops or for the council and that was it there was nothing out there industry wise beyond that, no major employers as such. Having a job in said area even just a minimum wage shop job meant you were doing better than most of your peers. Now though said area is competing with the rest of the world and areas with 4% unemployment rate so suddenly that job doesn't feel like a major achievement there because most people on social media that people will know from other areas won't have faced those issues so won't see their achievement as a thing.
Add to all that the push to fix a broken world and broken systems and the constant push to the general slow movement of change and an age of ever more instant gratification from entertainment to everything else and people are pushing harder because they think things should be changing faster and it's their duty to push the change more.
E.G. growing up you'd have to generally read a magazine to learn about newest games coming out. Then you'd have to take your money into town and buy the thing then go back home and put it in to play. Now I can pay for it digitally, download it and start playing fairly quick (unless it's a AAA game that's many many gigs). No need to spend I dunno 2+ hours going to town getting it and coming back
A more interconnected world and the increased perceived lack of meaning in people's lives and desire to leave an impact.
I've left my impact, tiny as it may be and likely only coming up in 50+ years in some overworked students paper where he cites the paper I somehow got my name on that basically reads "Ton's on distinguished Scientists and some idiot undergrad student (me)". That's it that's my mark and I doubt it's going to end up much bigger.
Problem is with social media it's created a case of people seeing those who are big or successful or could leave a better remembered mark and they're realising how little impact they have and are able to see others posting all these cool things they've done or achievements they've managed and then they look at what they've done and feel bad so they decide they want to make a difference in the world and the easiest way to even be a footnate in history is to be seen as one to help take down something big and be the good person doing it, slaying the evil or whatever.
There's no proverbial dragons left to slay. Little left to really explore on earth. No massive wars to fight for your country and die in to feel you have purpose and will in some way be remembered so people are looking to try and be heroes by taking down "Bad guys" because what impact on history will they leave with their minimum wage Starbucks job (Not that I'm dissing people who do said jobs, just pointing out it doesn't have the best career progression or impact on the world). People have gone from competing in a local area to on a global scale on social media. To give an example where I was at one point training to teach the school's local area had a 60-70% unemployment rate or so I was told. People worked on the Ferry, the train station, the school, the town shops or for the council and that was it there was nothing out there industry wise beyond that, no major employers as such. Having a job in said area even just a minimum wage shop job meant you were doing better than most of your peers. Now though said area is competing with the rest of the world and areas with 4% unemployment rate so suddenly that job doesn't feel like a major achievement there because most people on social media that people will know from other areas won't have faced those issues so won't see their achievement as a thing.
Add to all that the push to fix a broken world and broken systems and the constant push to the general slow movement of change and an age of ever more instant gratification from entertainment to everything else and people are pushing harder because they think things should be changing faster and it's their duty to push the change more.
E.G. growing up you'd have to generally read a magazine to learn about newest games coming out. Then you'd have to take your money into town and buy the thing then go back home and put it in to play. Now I can pay for it digitally, download it and start playing fairly quick (unless it's a AAA game that's many many gigs). No need to spend I dunno 2+ hours going to town getting it and coming back
What does it matter much if you personally donated or your money ended up there? Everyone knows corporations fund campaigns and lobby politicians, it's not some secret that you gave money that ended up being used for something you're absolutely against. If Scott gave money to a republican because he was for some economic policy and some of it went to anti-trans legislation and you wanted a burger and some of it went to anti-trans legislation, what does it really matter? Neither of you wanted it to go there but it did. If you got something on somebody that shows they indeed hate some group of people and want to cause harm, then I'm with you, but until then, I'm not gonna assume that person is bad.
Good for you. I don't care about your opinion on Scott Cawthon's character, I'm still not gonna buy his games. Does some games money I spend probably filter up to anti-LGBT politicians eventually? Yeah, probably. But not through that channel.
In your kind of argument, does it matter if I don't buy the game because I'm not particularly interested in it or if I don't buy the game because of Scott's personal politics? Either way, I'm not buying the game. And if not buying something is "cancel culture", then I've damn near cancel cultured every game.
Was it a rhetorical one cause I think I provided some examples in my post lol. The "Tear it down" attitude at play.
Oh I'll take this one.
Ghostbusters 2016 = "At last female Ghostbusters" the PR went. "What about Kylie Griffin" the fans called back. "The Ghostbusters are NOW WOMEN........ please clap"
"No, the trailer looks crap BTW". "You clearly just hate women and want to exclude women from being ghostbusters." "Kylie Griffin you stupid fucks" "OMG stop being sexist and saying all women are stupid fucks you pissbaby chud manchild"
The Last Jedi = Old Man Luke isn't a Hero, Rey is your hero now you will like Rey now and agree she's super uber more powerful than Luke an any jedi ever and more badass because look what happened to you hero he sucks now.
Battlefield V = We will tell authentic stories of real women of World War II. Proceeds to not do that but instead tells the story of a Polish Commando unit
but replaces them with a mother and daughter.
Star Trek Discovery = Michael Burnham is better than Spock and more badass and always right.
part 1 (forum being weird)
Part 2 (forum being weird)
Compare that the shows where forced diversity isn't claimed against them.
Killjoys:
Dutch is a Mixed race Assassin and Pri is a gay warlord.
Dutch still gets her ass kicked in fights or has to fight smart normally and win with technique because she's like 5'6 fighting 6'5 dudes sometimes.
Pri may be a warlord but he's seriously phobic of bugs and sometimes out of his depth with some more technical stuff
Stargirl:
Hugely diverse cast (both heroes and villains)
No-one is immune or unstoppable just because they're a hero. Hell the show makes this pretty clear by having Stargirl get so badly beaten she ends up spending like 3/4 of the next episode recovering going from being in hospital to then resting at home recovering.
There's no "Ha screw the old sexists" moment kind of when the old mostly all male Hero team are eventually replaced by the new heroes which consists of 3 girls and 2 guys (and one of them is technically a new hero)
With forced Diversity it's basically the kind of thing "The boys" was mocking with stuff like the "Brave Maeve Bar" or "Girls Get it Done" poster stuff
Compare that the shows where forced diversity isn't claimed against them.
Killjoys:
Dutch is a Mixed race Assassin and Pri is a gay warlord.
Dutch still gets her ass kicked in fights or has to fight smart normally and win with technique because she's like 5'6 fighting 6'5 dudes sometimes.
Pri may be a warlord but he's seriously phobic of bugs and sometimes out of his depth with some more technical stuff
Stargirl:
Hugely diverse cast (both heroes and villains)
No-one is immune or unstoppable just because they're a hero. Hell the show makes this pretty clear by having Stargirl get so badly beaten she ends up spending like 3/4 of the next episode recovering going from being in hospital to then resting at home recovering.
There's no "Ha screw the old sexists" moment kind of when the old mostly all male Hero team are eventually replaced by the new heroes which consists of 3 girls and 2 guys (and one of them is technically a new hero)
With forced Diversity it's basically the kind of thing "The boys" was mocking with stuff like the "Brave Maeve Bar" or "Girls Get it Done" poster stuff
Ah, so you are pretending that calling something racist is the same as tearing society down.
Got it.
Just going to point out that I asked if shitting on the Mona Lisa rant was popular.... You didn't answer the question. You just went on a tangent
So, to take this assumption, is the idea that anyone who has thought anything is racist is clearly tearing down society. Thus making it popular