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BrawlMan

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Poisoned the well with repetition, upgrades always suspect now.
That's a you problem on that one. What would you want exactly? Because any other method wouldn't be ideal or worse.

Never can tell if added because they thought it would enhance the game or because it's expected.
It's called read, watch, and pay attention. You can get through the game fine on minimal upgrades. This isn't an RPG or game with "RPG elements". Seraphim17 pretty much proved you can get through the game on the hardest difficulty and barely have to upgrade anything. You can through the entire game with Chai's basic super move, Power Chord. There is practice mode where you can play around with your combos as much as you want. You can even try moves before you buy them. So you have no excuses on that. That's all on you and not the game.

I think I wouldn't even put health upgrades in the world of my action game.
Then you might as well be mad/complain at nearly any action game modeled after Devil May Cry, because nearly all of them do that. That's why you have health upgrades you can buy, or heart/health containiers you find in 3 or 4 pieces to upgrade health, your super meter, etc.

Because if the player doesn't find them, the game can become almost unplayable later.
That rarely ever happens and are fringe extreme cases.

Can't help but think of my learning the upward and downward attacks in Streets of Rage years after I started playing. Satisfaction in finding them by accident. But if made now, would have to probably unlock with tedious menus full of stats and written descriptions.
You do realize SOR4 came out in 2020 and doesn't do that. Now it does have new and alternative moves you can unlock by playing Mr. X's Nightmare (when it released in 2021). That one is a grind, but as long as you make it to floor 25-30, most alternative moves will be unlocked per character. Though you do have to pay for the DLC to even play the mode and unlock those moves, and the 3 characters that come with it.
 

meiam

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Played Signalis, a survive horror game with a retro PS1 aesthetic. Really good looking, but kinda lacking in everything else, the gameplay is pretty basic, puzzle are simple, enemy can be walked past easily and the biggest thing slowing you down is that inventory is tiny and you need to constantly go back to storage chest to get keys and supply.

Story start out interesting, its some sort of future space soviet like empire that use replica of human as its main workforce. Buuuuuuut its also a symbolism game where nothing is real and things just change out at random. A positive description would be calling it like in the style of David Lynch, but honestly it just felt like nothing mattered.

Ultimately the game has this section with a long time before a new save point can be found and I died because apparently the game doesn't stop when you pause, I just didn't really feel like going trough the section again.
 

Ezekiel

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Don't kid yourself. If the first Streets of Rage were made now, even the rear attack would be locked off. Streets 4 doesn't do that because it has to live up to prior games.
 

BrawlMan

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the first Streets of Rage were made now, even the rear attack would be locked off.
I doubt that. Many of the Streets of Rage type games that came out before and after Streets of Rage 4 have a rear attack of some kind. Final Vendetta being the most notable about this.
 
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BrawlMan

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Anyone tried Gal Guardians Demon Purge? I hear it's a great Castlevania style game with more emphasis on Classicvania than Metroidvania. You can still go back to previous levels as you wish though. There's a sale on Steam, but I am thinking of get a physical version on consoles if I like it enough. The only complaints I've heard is that the game is too easy for a Castlevania title, but that's a non-issue for me. Especially when you can unlock harder modes.

EDIT: Looking more into the game, it's basically an easier and more streamlined version of Bloodstained: Curse of the Moon 2. I can live with that. Much less frustrating and is GGDP is basically Curse of the Moon 3.
Fuck it, I bought Gal Guardians Demon Purge and I am loving it! I completed the first two stages. The game is Curse of the Moon 3, except you're playing as two sisters, there is an optional co-op, and in single player you can switch between the two. One is range with weak attacks, while the close ranger with strong attacks, but the weakest health. There is a super meter you can fill up, and pressing it with a one button push can cause major damage, if it lands. I save them for bosses. The boss fights are cool too and the biggest highlights. The second is basically Lord Laptor, if he were demonic bunny. It's awesome! This game also does that Rondo of Blood thing where the bosses have a fuck-you-suicide move when they lose all of their health, and you either have to dodge or attack. So heads up on that. They're not insta-kills, but you will take some damage depending on health values.

This already my favorite modern style Castlevania game. I wish I had bought this sooner, but glad I got it on sale at Steam. I might just buy a physical version on Switch.

 
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Ezekiel

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I doubt that. Many of the Streets of Rage type games that came out before and after Streets of Rage 4 have a rear attack of some kind. Final Vendetta being the most notable about this.
"Studios," or what we call AAA, don't make Streets of Rage-like games anymore. If Streets was released for the first time now, especially in 3D, it would imitate other AAA games. Moves would be unlocked and upgraded gradually.

Who am I kidding? The studios never would make a game like Streets of Rage. But, yeah, upgrades in every studio game. I have been told that no character progression makes for monotony. Just find it disruptive and tiresome after seeing it in every single game.
 

Ezekiel

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Since you mentioned Devil May Cry, I have been grinding my way through Soulstice for the last six months. I don't read the unlocks there either, which makes the game harder. Mostly pick them at random. Can't be bothered. Refuse.
 

Drathnoxis

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I'm beginning to see a worrying pattern emerging: the only way Fromsoft can seemingly up the difficulty anymore is
  1. Giving every major boss a metric fuckton of health
  2. Giving every phase 2 its completely own moveset, forcing you to learn how to fight basically two bosses back to back.
  3. Making every boss a Manus or a Gwyn. Ie. bosses have endlessly long attack chains with no window for attack, and the damage is turned so high that trading damage or blocking isn't really viable either. Which, like I mentioned previously, makes most of the fights completely reactive for the majority of their duration as you dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge, dodge and only then get to attack safely
So true, I had these exact problems with the Dark Souls 3 DLC bosses. I got so sick of two/three phase bosses. After you master the first phases it's just extra padding before you can get to the point of the fight you actually need to practice.
 

BrawlMan

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"Studios," or what we call AAA, don't make Streets of Rage-like games anymore. If Streets was released for the first time now, especially in 3D, it would imitate other AAA games. Moves would be unlocked and upgraded gradually.
Well it's a good thing we don't have to rely on them anymore to get what we want. The indies, smaller stuidos, and AAs are more than making it up for us.

If Streets was released for the first time now, especially in 3D, it would imitate other AAA games. Moves would be unlocked and upgraded gradually.
FTR, a 3D Streets of Rage is happening. Golden Axe too. No gameplay mechanics have been revealed yet, but everything appears to be completely arcade style with having to do upgrades unlocks. I don't know and could be wrong. We'll see how it goes

Just find it disruptive and tiresome after seeing it in every single game.
I get where you're coming from to an extent, but as long as the upgrades are done well enough or explained, I see no issue. Some games get them right, some others don't. Not the end of the world, nor worth crying over.

Since you mentioned Devil May Cry, I have been grinding my way through Soulstice for the last six months. I don't read the unlocks there either, which makes the game harder. Mostly pick them at random. Can't be bothered. Refuse.
I 've seen reviews about that games, but it seems average overall. I have no interests in it though.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Fuck it, I bought Gal Guardians Demon Purge and I am loving it! I completed the first two stages. The game is Curse of the Moon 3, except you're playing as two sisters, there is an optional co-op, and in single player you can switch between the two. One is range with weak attacks, while the close ranger with strong attacks, but the weakest health. There is a super meter you can fill up, and pressing it with a one button push can cause major damage, if it lands. I save them for bosses. The boss fights are cool too and the biggest highlights. The second is basically Lord Laptor, if he were demonic bunny. It's awesome! This game also does that Rondo of Blood thing where the bosses have a fuck-you-suicide move when they lose all of their health, and you either have to dodge or attack. So heads up on that. They're not insta-kills, but you will take some damage depending on health values.
I enjoyed that one. I never did the special ending, but it is on my replay list, along with like 50 other games so no telling when that will happen.

They made another one you might be interested in also called Umbraclaw.
 

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Is that one level based or metroidvania? If it's the former, than I am more interested. I saw the trailer and the visuals are beautiful!
I'm not certain, haven't played it yet. Does look really good.
 

BrawlMan

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I'm not certain, haven't played it yet. Does look really good.
I looked this up. The game is level based, but has this weird dying mechanic. There are multiple endings based off of your form of the character and what choices you made. I might get this on a sale, because I am not sure if I'll be into it.

 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I looked this up. The game is level based, but has this weird dying mechanic. There are multiple endings based off of your form of the character and what choices you made. I might get this on a sale, because I am not sure if I'll be into it.
That could be annoying, depending on how long the game is and what else is out I could easily see myself only getting 1 ending in it and moving to another game. I still have so many shootemups I need to beat.
 
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Old_Hunter_77

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Loving the reaction to the Elden Ring DLC because I had a feeling they'd go harder on the Maliketh style bosses and it seems true and some brave folks are starting to call it out while the fandom and critics who are scared by the fandom still are calling it the greatest thing ever.
The FromSoftware backlash of 2026 is starting now, I smell it in the air...

Meanwhile I'm getting towards the end of the main campaign of the game the From fans cite as the reason we need more souls games, the prog to their punk- Forspoken. The story is actually good! I mean.. not "good," per se, lol, but engaging enough. I'm getting all the plot non-twists and trope deliveries I could have hoped for. More importantly, the centerpiece boss battles have been fantastic.

I'm probably gonna wrap up the main campaign today or tomorrow. Then it looks like there's a lot of grinding if I wanna go for platinum, so I may do that while listening to podcasts and stuff.
 
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BrawlMan

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The FromSoftware backlash of 2026 is starting now, I smell it in the air...
It technically already started, but I don't care either way. Everyone Can have their pathetic little war, I'll be playing games that i'm interested in like you. BTW, I do recommend you give Gal Guardians a shot, if you're in for another Castlevania type game. This one is more Classicvania than Metroidvania. Think Rondo of Blood & Bloodlines than Symphony of the Night.

critics who are scared by the fandom still are calling it the greatest thing ever.
Why do critics even need to be scared? They showed us hell, didn't fear the DMC fans or Greek era GoW fans? Why get so scared now? What are the things going to do to them, stop watching or reading their reviews?
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Loving the reaction to the Elden Ring DLC because I had a feeling they'd go harder on the Maliketh style bosses and it seems true and some brave folks are starting to call it out while the fandom and critics who are scared by the fandom still are calling it the greatest thing ever.
The FromSoftware backlash of 2026 is starting now, I smell it in the air...
I understand all the words used here, but not how they are arranged. What are you talking about?
 

Old_Hunter_77

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I understand all the words used here, but not how they are arranged. What are you talking about?
Ok... um... I guess I'll try to clarify...

Here's Inside Gaming talking about some of the ER DLC criticism:

Inside Gaming8

and then u/Bartholen recent posts in this thread. And then the common observation re: the last third or so of the base game about bullshit spam attack boss battles and crazy difficulty spikes.
Elden Ring is one of the critical darlings and has a vocal fanbase that is really religious about Souls games and criticism is often met with gatekeeping scorn. So my point is merely that as FromSoftware continues this trend or ramping up difficulty in annoying ways, it opens the door for a backlash. And internet discourse thrives on hot takes, hype, and backlash. I wouldn't be surprised of the momentum of backlash overwhelmes the fanboyism at some point, and I'm guessing that to be around 2026.
 
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This does bring up an interesting contrast though. There’s always been a subset of gamers wanting easy modes in these games and complaining about different bosses or sections (btw still F.U. Londo archers, *signed: everyone* lol), and back when the formula was fresher it was generally met with the whole “git gud” response. But now, I think more of those people are like, “FFS FROM, are you serious?” because after all this time they never backed down from their philosophy, and the more challenging encounters once deemed “reasonable” or “fair” have more than occasionally morphed or escalated into plain “ridiculous” territory.

It’s pretty clear that FROMSOFT fatigue is setting in for an increasing number of gamers, which is understandable after seven games (five with dlc). I started feeling it roughly around DS3/dlc and was at the point where I wanted the game design to change to something more dynamic involving damage on enemies, environments, etc.. But considering the type of dynamism I would like to see is practically still either a pipe dream or only seen in other genres that I’m aware of…well, it’s a sacrifice/compromise I’ll have to make if I want to keep playing these things for the time being. Basically what they do well still far outweighs any bs IMO.
 
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Bartholen

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Continuing the Shadows of the Erdtree pain train, I'm settling on this finally breaking the trend of Fromsoft being the frontrunners of quality DLC. And it came when I noticed quite a noticeable disparity between the open world and the legacy dungeons: the latter is still Fromsoft at the top of their game with interesting level design, visuals, enemies and encounters. The former is mostly a barren, empty void that does not come even close to justifying its size. It feels like it's big because Fromsoft can show off a big map, but there's literally nothing in for huge swathes of it. Where are the enemy encampments? The hidden dungeons? Treasure chests to discover? Literally anything to see, do or interact with? This became impossible to ignore when I went throught the Ancient Ruins of Rauh. It's a combination of verdant open areas and gigantic tunnels and it looks great, but there's nothing there. I kept running around for minutes on end down dark hallways waiting for something interesting to pop up, some switchup in the level design, and it never came. This honestly feels baffling considering ER was already criticized for its open world being a bit too big and lacking interesting content especially towards the endgame.

The other element I'm conflicted on is the Shadow Blessing system. It's basically a new way of leveling up, akin to Sekiro's Memory system: you find Scadutree fragments around the world and can spend them at a bonfire for increases in health, damage, damage resistance, scaling and the like. This is also new for Fromsoft DLC: previously they've been endgame content, and as such leveling up hasn't made a huge difference in them, or even been strictly necessary. In Shadows of the Erdtree the difference between fighting bosses at Shadow Blessing 0 and Shadow Blessing 10 is night and day. A boss I'd died to honestly like 50 times folded like wet toilet paper when I'd reached Blessing level 10. Whereas previously I could sustain like 3 hits with my lvl 180+, VGR 50+ heavy armor build, all of a sudden I could take double that amount.

On one hand I understand that because Elden Ring is so much bigger and more open-ended than previous games, you can't really scale it the same way as more linear DLC. It's also open world, so you want to incentivize players exploring the new environments. But on the other hand the difference they make makes finding them basically mandatory, which just feels cheap. It's essentially restarting the players at level 0 no matter how carefully crafted or honed in their build, and only letting them back to the groove once they've collected enough fragments. Which also means that in repeat playthroughs there's always going to be at least half an hour of setup as you just run around the world collecting the fragments, much like how Golden Seeds and the Physick Flask are in the main game. Which I doubt is gonna be much fun, considering how huge and thinly spread the DLC map is.

My prevailing sense of the DLC right now is that of resounding mediocrity. The legacy dungeons are fantastic, but they're balanced out by a dull, empty open world and some truly questionable design decisions. We'll see if my feelings change when I actually finish it.
 
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