The Shattered Elden Ring Thread: Tarnished Edition - (Shadow of the Erdtree p. 85)

[CriticalGaming]

Sometimes worlds are created and given scale with more than gameplay dopamine hits in mind.

And this is fine. However if you space out the dopamine with a lot of nothing to create the vastness of the world, then the moments where you do get that dopamine hit those hits need to be bigger and harder. Less rewards are fine, but they need to be more rewarding when they do happen and that's where it falls flat imo.

 

[Silvanus]

Also keep in mind that not everyone can use, or even would want to use, those items with their current spec. Which begs the question, why have limited respecs in a game with this many options? If you could respec at any bonfire then that would solve this issue entirely and truly allow for the wide experimentation that people claim the game has. Because you loose the risk of trying something. If you don't like it, you can just swap back to what you were using, no big deal. Or better yet allow people spec loadouts that they can swap at bonfires to switch between int, dex, str, whatever based stats to make it even easier. The gameplay itself is hard enough, there doesn't need to be such a friction in character choice. All they've done is limit the choices and made 90% of the games items useless to you. Which means it's only exciting or interesting to find 10% of the items.

Would you not agree that is a problem?

Elden Ring is far more lenient with respeccing than most RPGs with levelling. If you respecced 10 times in a playthrough, you're being very fast and loose, and then expecting something of the game that you wouldn't get from most others.

Plus, talking about the number of options in the game as if each one requires a respec to experiment with?! That's really silly. Firstly, by midgame you'll have enough levels to comfortably use at least two main stats. A single respec-- from str/int to dex/faith for example-- would open up practically every other weapon you've been overlooking. But really, respeccing isn't for simply experimenting with new gear. You respec a stat to change broad playstyle-- for any one of which, dozens of weapons will be available. You want to experiment with a specific one? Just try it out, you don't need to respec.

This is already a hundred times more accommodating and lenient than Dark Souls. Methinks your expectations are out of whack, not the balance of the game.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Elden Ring is far more lenient with respeccing than most RPGs with levelling. If you respecced 10 times in a playthrough, you're being very fast and loose, and then expecting something of the game that you wouldn't get from most others.

Plus, talking about the number of options in the game as if each one requires a respec to experiment with?! That's really silly. Firstly, by midgame you'll have enough levels to comfortably use at least two main stats. A single respec-- from str/int to dex/faith for example-- would open up practically every other weapon you've been overlooking. But really, respeccing isn't for simply experimenting with new gear. You respec a stat to change broad playstyle-- for any one of which, dozens of weapons will be available. You want to experiment with a specific one? Just try it out, you don't need to respec.

This is already a hundred times more accommodating and lenient than Dark Souls. Methinks your expectations are out of whack, not the balance of the game.

What these conversations miss, either on purpose or by accident or just that we're so familiar with these games, is the differences between:

- playing with internet guides vs without; and
- the popularity and expose of Elden Ring compared to the previous FromSoftware games

The idea that "this game isn't for everyone" is both so broadly obviously DUH but also so crucial. This is why me real actual gripe with Elden Ring is how it's discussed and covered. That it's compared to Horizon: Forbidden West and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla and Breath of the Wild, games that share the "open world" tag in the same way that a canoe and a space shuttle are both "vehicles."

The best and worst thing about ER, compared to Souls, is how big it is. You have more respecs because you have more THINGS- items, locations, etc. There's just so MUCH of everything, and this is what helped it become so praised. But a lot of it I feel is there to just sort of make up for the fact that it's bigness of bigness' sake.

We have one member here who played one playthrough over the course of like a year, and I think that's the smartest and best way to do it. Sometimes I wish I had a "forever" game, something comforting to go back to in between other things, like an MMO or Genshin but whenever I try any of those games I get so freaking bored. ER is like a forever game but there is advancement in a single player journey and I like that. At least that's how I'm trying to play it now.

 

[BrawlMan]

forever

Streets of Rage 4, DMC5, Bayonetta 2, and Transformers Devastation are my forever games. But I do take breaks every now then.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

So I'm finding myself going towards this kind of build/play style:
Elden Ring Hammer Cragblade Build - How to Build a Tower Knight Guide (All Game Build) (youtube.com)

The short of it is- big shield, small hammer, buffs and ashes to help break stance. Going with my desired bonking dreams and to try to get critical hits. Making baddies crumble to their knees is my favorite thing about these games.
Mr. Fextralife guy introduces the video by saying it was a build designed for DLC but it was made before DLC came out so I wonder if it holds up. I am skeptical because with enemies spinning around and spamming attacks I dunno how practical it is to actually block. I predict I will quit the game at the point where my shield stops being useful.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Update on my tower knight build:
Level 55, I got the big shield and upgraded morning star. Could not help putting some points in faith so I can toss fireballs and use utilitarian spells.

I read about the value of one's poise stat being 51 and considering I'm doing a defensive power build I figured I should do that. This required equpping some heavier armor which means I need a talisman to books equip load, which is annoying. So now I gotta dedicate the next 5-10 level upgrades to endurance. It's at 20 but not enough for 51 poise AND a great shield. Considering the whole point of using a small weapon is to avoid this crap. *sigh*

On the plus side, I hunted down the Night Cavalries and death birds in Limgrave and east Lurnia and was able to take them down without sprinting around on a horse which is very satisfying. I still can't bring myself to do that with the dragons though- they are so big and fly so far!

And I got that ash of war Cragblade that buffs your attack and stance breaking.
Coincidentally, Jack Packard has been playing Elden Ring with the DLC on weekly streams over at Second Wind and he is also using that ash of war in a strength build, but he's just dual wielding fist weapons. So it's interesting to see a similar emphasis on stance breaking but just with a more aggressive play style. He's also using this awesome ash of war on polearm that hurls phantom spears. I can't equip anything due to weight limit obviously but I still wanna try it (it's in Rya Lucaria).

I always get caught between melee and range. I just can't completely sacrifice one for the other like some players do. Even though I wanna block and smash, sometimes there's these annoying flying things that just gotta get got with something I throw or shoot.

My continued interest in this replay is that some of the parts that annoyed me before are now amusing- I'm ready for it, I'm not pressuring myself to beat the game, so I'm giggling at failure again which is really the most important part of enjoying these stupid games.
Like that frenzied flame tower in east Lurnia, or the carian knight before Renalla that parries and one-shots you so you gotta git super gud or cheese him by getting him to fall down the elevator shaft (yeah, you know which one I did), or when you bravely explore the very bottom of Raya Lucaria under the water wheel only to get swallowed by a robot and transported under the volcano manor and are stuck in a fire pit and have to do awkward drops to get out. So silly, so annoying, so cute.

Next up is figuring out how to get to and clearing Albanauric village and then attempting the Carian manor. I'm trying, as much as patience and skill allows, to clear entire areas as much as I can. I'm pretty sure I beat every boss in Limgrave.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Update on my tower knight build:
Level 55, I got the big shield and upgraded morning star. Could not help putting some points in faith so I can toss fireballs and use utilitarian spells.

I read about the value of one's poise stat being 51 and considering I'm doing a defensive power build I figured I should do that. This required equpping some heavier armor which means I need a talisman to books equip load, which is annoying. So now I gotta dedicate the next 5-10 level upgrades to endurance. It's at 20 but not enough for 51 poise AND a great shield. Considering the whole point of using a small weapon is to avoid this crap. *sigh*

On the plus side, I hunted down the Night Cavalries and death birds in Limgrave and east Lurnia and was able to take them down without sprinting around on a horse which is very satisfying. I still can't bring myself to do that with the dragons though- they are so big and fly so far!

And I got that ash of war Cragblade that buffs your attack and stance breaking.
Coincidentally, Jack Packard has been playing Elden Ring with the DLC on weekly streams over at Second Wind and he is also using that ash of war in a strength build, but he's just dual wielding fist weapons. So it's interesting to see a similar emphasis on stance breaking but just with a more aggressive play style. He's also using this awesome ash of war on polearm that hurls phantom spears. I can't equip anything due to weight limit obviously but I still wanna try it (it's in Rya Lucaria).

I always get caught between melee and range. I just can't completely sacrifice one for the other like some players do. Even though I wanna block and smash, sometimes there's these annoying flying things that just gotta get got with something I throw or shoot.

My continued interest in this replay is that some of the parts that annoyed me before are now amusing- I'm ready for it, I'm not pressuring myself to beat the game, so I'm giggling at failure again which is really the most important part of enjoying these stupid games.
Like that frenzied flame tower in east Lurnia, or the carian knight before Renalla that parries and one-shots you so you gotta git super gud or cheese him by getting him to fall down the elevator shaft (yeah, you know which one I did), or when you bravely explore the very bottom of Raya Lucaria under the water wheel only to get swallowed by a robot and transported under the volcano manor and are stuck in a fire pit and have to do awkward drops to get out. So silly, so annoying, so cute.

Next up is figuring out how to get to and clearing Albanauric village and then attempting the Carian manor. I'm trying, as much as patience and skill allows, to clear entire areas as much as I can. I'm pretty sure I beat every boss in Limgrave.

About the poise thing, with a greatshield one can afford to wear lighter armor because Endurance (stamina) matters more with the shield doing most of the work. For that Second Wind fist build it’d make more sense to wear heavier armor (higher poise) since the armor itself is the main defense. Also it’s worth tuning the shield’s affinity to match a boss’s offense type, since it boosts that elemental defense.

If you killed the Night’s Cavalry that drops the halberd you might be able to equip it with a shield using lighter armor without going heavy. Although even if so, in a way it really adds a tactical feeling since it forces more reliance on the shield itself vs dodge rolling.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

About the poise thing, with a greatshield one can afford to wear lighter armor because Endurance (stamina) matters more with the shield doing most of the work. For that Second Wind fist build it’d make more sense to wear heavier armor (higher poise) since the armor itself is the main defense. Also it’s worth tuning the shield’s affinity to match a boss’s offense type, since it boosts that elemental defense.

If you killed the Night’s Cavalry that drops the halberd you might be able to equip it with a shield using lighter armor without going heavy. Although even if so, in a way it really adds a tactical feeling since it forces more reliance on the shield itself vs dodge rolling.

But I read that what poise does is allow you to hit through attacks. So you get hit and lose health but your attack isn't interrupted. And I know that's a different thing then being able to block bigger things successfully but I guess I want both, with the whole tanky thing I'm going for.

Of course I'd love poise, great shield and a beefy weapon but I'd need endurance stat at like 60 or something and I just can't see myself ever having it more than strength.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

But I read that what poise does is allow you to hit through attacks. So you get hit and lose health but your attack isn't interrupted. And I know that's a different thing then being able to block bigger things successfully but I guess I want both, with the whole tanky thing I'm going for.

Of course I'd love poise, great shield and a beefy weapon but I'd need endurance stat at like 60 or something and I just can't see myself ever having it more than strength.

Ok yeah. For that something between 35-40 endurance wearing one of the knight sets like Godrick, Redmane, basic one bought from the roundtable, etc. which have the 51 min. for tanking a light hit. This would allow mid rolls with a greatshield, Nightrider glaive (or even a great mace, pickaxe or brick hammer found early), sacred seal and four talismans without needing any slots to boost endurance. To wear something heavier like with 70+ poise you’ll need 47 or so, which brings equip load over 100. Anything heavier like Bull Goat’s set is getting into brick wall territory where a shield starts not even mattering. Then it’s true tank territory and tanks don’t have to bother rolling lol.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Ok yeah. For that something between 35-40 endurance wearing one of the knight sets like Godrick, Redmane, basic one bought from the roundtable, etc. which have the 51 min. for tanking a light hit. This would allow mid rolls with a greatshield, Nightrider glaive (or even a great mace, pickaxe or brick hammer found early), sacred seal and four talismans without needing any slots to boost endurance. To wear something heavier like with 70+ poise you’ll need 47 or so, which brings equip load over 100. Anything heavier like Bull Goat’s set is getting into brick wall territory where a shield starts not even mattering. Then it’s true tank territory and tanks don’t have to bother rolling lol.

Right so I'm that but a light weapon so I don't need to bring endurance over 30, which I just got and I'm gonna go back to focusing on strength and vigor. Armor is just a mishmash of different things to get poise to add up to 51 cause I didn't want the boring knight set from roundtable.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Anyways, beat Messmer last night. Neat, and I want to respec for his weapon now. Tried maybe a couple dozen attempts with a heavy infused smithscript hammer before switching to a cold great stars with wild strikes and greatshield combo. It was noticeably more effective as the shield can stop nearly everything but his grab and aoe stuff. Gotta look for openings with wild strikes though like after a combo or he impales the summon. The NPC summon helps quite a bit first phase and I didn’t start my Oleg summon until the second.

I’ve read people comparing this one to Isshin from Sekiro in terms of needing to learn the opponent but eh, don’t really see any ER bosses this way because they’re such different games. Main bosses here are usually more about spectacle and unlike Sekiro there’s always easier ways of beating them before really having to know the fight inside/out.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

So far loving my build, having more fun with the game than I remember having at this point in my initial playthrough, and of course got way further in than my previous second attempts.

I'm in Caelid south after pretty much completing Limgrave and Lurnia (by complete I mean kill all the bosses). My last play session I wiped out the Night Cavalery, the Deathbird and Commander Niel whatever, the ***** in the swamp that summons soldiers. I didn't have the confidence in my first playthrough to roll up to optional bosses like that, I would come back after leveling. But this time I rolled up to Night Cavalry and killed him in first attempt, it took me a few to get the Deathbird, and of course a few to get swamp ***** but I enjoyed killing him at the same time as he summoned his second wave and they all killed me, but the kill counts.
That is to say- sometimes I can step up to big baddies with my coward shield and smashy stick and have a chance. A couple of charged attacks or guard counters gets me near a crit, and I was able to wipe out half of swamp ***** health's before I even started picking off his minions. So much more fun than rolling around everywhere like a moron.

 

[FakeSympathy]

I've decided to go into the DLC again, this time with my STR/FTH build. And wouldn't you know it, i'm having such a better experience this time.

There is the factor me now knowing what to come, but all the mobs and bosses I've struggled with INT build all of a sudden now feels such much easier; I'm using Blood Greatsword +22 w/ Lion's Claw, and even without spamming LC I seen to break their poise with ease.

There is an annoyance of me having to be in close range and if I'm not careful I take hit, but since I have high VIT and defense I can actually survive huge attacks that used to kill me with my INT build.

While I still need to play more, I think this re-iterates my points from past posts; The DLC is a terrible experience for caster builds, especially INT/sorcery builds. If I beat Messmer with relative ease, it would solidify the sentiment in my head

Compare to the INT build, my STR/FTH experience was very different. For one thing, some bosses that were hard were now easy, and the ones that were easy were now hard. Field monsters melted, especially after I found Devonia's hammer; while slower than greatsword, this thing wiped the floor

But the final boss was a real pain to deal with. My first build was an INT build, and I was able to beat this guy because I summoned and relied on co-op players to keep the boss focused on them. All I had to do was cheese the spells, but it was still difficult.

With STR/FTH build, I can't use anything holy-related because the final boss has resistance, my strongest attacks only chips away an increment of the HP, and I have to be near the boss's hitbox. It gets nearly impossible not to take huge hits during the second phase. There were many times where I thought I was out of its range, but still got hit regardless. I beaten him with 29 attempts co-oping

Now I'm debating if I want to this again for a dex/arc build, which is all about bleeding the enemies. I heard dex and arc-related gears are littered everywhere in the DLC, but eh.... I am gonna get hit even harder with this final boss since the equipments won't offer high defense

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

Starscourge Radahn down.

This fight is similar to Orenstein & Smough for me- it is the best spectacle and lore and visuals, and the worst actual fight. The comet attack just comes from any direction and is impossible to actually view and avoid, it was just luck to not get hit. The second phase gravity balls thing also just feels like luck/RNG. When I finally beat him, he didn't use them as much, it's just that simple.

Similar to the Renalla fight- I only beat her when she didn't spam summons literally every second. And also a gorgeous spectacle with cool lore and arena spectacle.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

Compare to the INT build, my STR/FTH experience was very different. For one thing, some bosses that were hard were now easy, and the ones that were easy were now hard. Field monsters melted, especially after I found Devonia's hammer; while slower than greatsword, this thing wiped the floor

However, for the first time in my experience with soulsborne games, I am giving up on finishing the expansion with a build. I just can't beat the final boss. My first build was an INT build, and I was able to beat this guy because I summoned and relied on co-op players to keep the boss focused on them. All I had to do was cheese the spells, but it was still difficult.

With STR/FTH build, I can't use anything holy-related because the final boss has resistance, my strongest attacks only chips away an increment of the HP, and I have to be near the boss's hitbox. It gets nearly impossible not to take huge hits during the second phase. There were many times where I thought I was out of its range, but still got hit regardless. I've challenged this boss 25 times with a co-op, and I have 4 more of those co-op items left.

It's also unmotivating me to try the dlc for a dex/arc build, which is all about bleeding the enemies. I heard dex and arc-related gears are littered everywhere in the DLC, but eh.... I am gonna get hit even harder with this final boss since the equipments won't offer high defense

I’ve read comments in the Fextra page for the Black Steel great hammer I’ve been using myself most recently (STR/FTH) that when paired with Prayerful Strike ash it’s highly effective on anything, given the guard counter boost this weapon also utilizes.

Also the Deflecting tear that can be grabbed from the first flame basket giant thing is apparently the new meta item in the game. Basically lets you kinda play the game like Sekiro, at least for five minutes a pop. It can stack guard counter damage too, and it apparently works on ANYTHING short of grabs. So yeah, even AoE attacks. I’ve only tried it out briefly but really curious to see what kinda synergy I get using it with the BS hammer.

 

[BrawlMan]

@hanselthecaretaker2 & @CriticalGaming, here we go again with more Elden Ring hot takes from Act Man

​

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

@hanselthecaretaker2 & @CriticalGaming, here we go again with more Elden Ring hot takes from Act Man

​

I think Critical will have fightin words with some of this but it’s still pretty ace for me.

The difficulty thing really needs a rest though. People just aren’t looking hard enough if they think it’s too difficult.

 

[Old_Hunter_77]

I'm being all r/patientgamers with this DLC. I'll only consider buying/playing IF I make it through the base game again on my current playthrough and IF I actually want more Elden Ring. By then maybe they'll deal with some of the complaints about the game.

I beat Starscourge Rahdan the other day and supposedly it was nerfed. But I don't remember a difference- so either it wasn't really nerfed that much, or I played the first time after the nerf, or whatever. It's still the Orenstein and Smough of the game- a gorgeous looking, lore-satisfying, bullshit to actually play encounter. While I'm having a much easier time with the game on this second playthrough, that boss fight was still just riding aroundon torrent praying to RNGeezus.

On the flip side, I just beat my first Godskin Apostle fight in this play-through- this is the one near the windmills. That fight took me FOREVER the first time and it was pretty easy first-try this time.
I came across a bigger mace just by exploring on my own and have switched to it as my main weapon- it's called Great Star and I love it, it looks like something scary some NPC invader would wield. I also have the shield from the boss at the poison castle, a helmet that looks like one of the Melania valkyrie, and redman top so I'm all red and nasty with barbs and spikes and it's great. I think I'm supposed to be getting some bleed bonuses with all this stuff but I'm still just trying to stance break mostly.

On the flip flip side, I had that encounter with the beast all the way up in Caelid that you give deathroots to and he attacks you after a while... you're supposed to just hit him a few times to calm him down and he is doing all those movements that piss me off in the game, with the flying around and impossible to read and teleporting everywhere. And I know that is the first "easier" phase of the dreaded Maliketh fight and knowing that is later in the game is why I keep hedging on my desire to actual complete the play-through.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

I'm being all r/patientgamers with this DLC. I'll only consider buying/playing IF I make it through the base game again on my current playthrough and IF I actually want more Elden Ring. By then maybe they'll deal with some of the complaints about the game.

I beat Starscourge Rahdan the other day and supposedly it was nerfed. But I don't remember a difference- so either it wasn't really nerfed that much, or I played the first time after the nerf, or whatever. It's still the Orenstein and Smough of the game- a gorgeous looking, lore-satisfying, bullshit to actually play encounter. While I'm having a much easier time with the game on this second playthrough, that boss fight was still just riding aroundon torrent praying to RNGeezus.

On the flip side, I just beat my first Godskin Apostle fight in this play-through- this is the one near the windmills. That fight took me FOREVER the first time and it was pretty easy first-try this time.
I came across a bigger mace just by exploring on my own and have switched to it as my main weapon- it's called Great Star and I love it, it looks like something scary some NPC invader would wield. I also have the shield from the boss at the poison castle, a helmet that looks like one of the Melania valkyrie, and redman top so I'm all red and nasty with barbs and spikes and it's great. I think I'm supposed to be getting some bleed bonuses with all this stuff but I'm still just trying to stance break mostly.

On the flip flip side, I had that encounter with the beast all the way up in Caelid that you give deathroots to and he attacks you after a while... you're supposed to just hit him a few times to calm him down and he is doing all those movements that piss me off in the game, with the flying around and impossible to read and teleporting everywhere. And I know that is the first "easier" phase of the dreaded Maliketh fight and knowing that is later in the game is why I keep hedging on my desire to actual complete the play-through.

They kinda reversed the nerf (mostly) and the end result is I think just slightly less obnoxious hurtboxes for the boss’s attacks. His laser beam can still be avoided dashing left or right on Torrent or rolling just after it shoots, and the meteor will basically just AoE hit roughly wherever you are when he appears in the sky, so again Torrent needs to book it. Looking up to see Radahn’s trajectory helps when in doubt.

The Briar shield doesn’t have the best guard boost for great shields, but the bleed bonus with shield bash plus the bleed on great stars is a nice combo. Infusing cold for added frost is fun. You could even put that on a second great stars from the NPC phantom found in Writheblood ruins if doing Varre’s questline and go full unga bunga with claw/hammer talismans, or swap out the claw for curved sword talisman when using the shield.

 

[FakeSympathy]

@hanselthecaretaker2 & @CriticalGaming, here we go again with more Elden Ring hot takes from Act Man

​

I watched the video earlier. And I am kinda in agreement with ActMan here, some of these hottakes are weird, just not as spicy

RDR2 vs Elden Ring? WTF that's just a weird comparison to make. That's like trying to compare Zelda TOTK vs Spiderman 2. While I enjoyed both RDR2 and Elden Ring. both games excel in their own way. Not to mention RDR2 had more labor force going in.

Wticher 3 vs Elden Ring? Again enjoyed both but I can wholeheartly say I enjoyed the story of Witcher 3 more, since Elden Ring doesn't really have distinct narrative.

No healing mechanic? Bruh, you do realize timing of all your actions are part of soulsborne experience, right? Although some bosses definitely go a bit overboard with choking the safe window

I could go on like this, but the last one covered in the video was the weirdest one; ER is definitely more approachable, offers more build and respec options, and easier to level up and gear your characters, but it 's in no way "easier" than Dark Souls. They have their own thing which makes them difficult