Amber Guyger has been found GUILTY

[Thaluikhain]

Fixing classism will fix racism despite them not being connected because if you don't have more power to marginalize someone, people tell me you can't be racist, cause according to them only the people with systemic power can be.

Well, if you fix classism as in get a communist utopia, perhaps, but I'd not hold my breath on that. You're not going to "fix" either of those any time soon, you can reduce their impacts somewhat.

Calling one of the least racist societies to ever exist, both historically and in the modern era, a racist society, as opposed to a not completely nonracist one, is throwing it under the bus.

No. It really isn't. Even if there are worse places (and I'm guessing you mean countries outside the Western, developed world, which places like the US take superiority over for granted), even if things used to be worse (and both those points are, of course, true) doesn't mean that the US isn't racist. Because it is. "But mum, other kids are doing it" and "but mum, I'm not doing it as much as I used to" aren't good defences.

You can't affect it in the same way you can't affect a bad driver hitting you as you walk down the street but people aren't being in a frenzy about car accidents, despite them killing tens of thousands of people each year.

And massive amounts of time and effort are spent in trying to reduce the road toll, there's no debate over whether or not car accidents is a problem worth doing something over, just what the response should be. There's no particular division between drivers and pedestrians.

 

[Satinavian]

Calling one of the least racist societies to ever exist, both historically and in the modern era, a racist society, as opposed to a not completely nonracist one, is throwing it under the bus.

What ?

The US absolutely does not fit that description. It has way more race related baggage than most other countries on earth.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

You can?t have a substantive discussion on a subject if you?re unwilling to provide the personal perspective from which you?re discussing it as in this case in particular it is significantly relevant. You cannot dumb down someone else?s perception and perspective and then not be willing to disclose from which angle you feel justified in stating your assertions with any kind of authority. And is the suggestion that he should ?just answer like you answer to a normal average person? a tacit suggestion that black people have an abnormal perspective?

These ideals you seem to hold that racial biases don?t exist, pose no bearing on discussions about and involving race, and that you decry as figments of the imagination of people who try to have meaningful discussions in the real world in which those biases very much DO exist makes any point you have to make extremely weak nigh nonsensical, and feels as little more than pompous virtue signaling. Your perspective is just that, YOURS, and unless you?re willing to share it, anything you have to say on a given matter might as well not be said at all.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

This is the second assumption you have made about me in two consecutive posts. This one just had the benefit of not offending me.

I am answering like I would to a normal, average person. I've posted enough in these forums to show that. I'm trying to get your play of things because I literally don't know. My experiences are mine, and they formed how I see the world. You have no idea of my and my family's life experiences.

Nor do I have any idea of yours. It's very easy to just get upset at someone who tells you that your experiences are made up in your head. It's like a guy going to a woman and saying "You know what? Periods, being physically weaker, having governments vote on your own body's rights...? Not that big of a deal". But I rather go the route of trying to understand where you came from, your similar or dissimilar upbringing, and any comparable experiences.

If this is truly a situation where a male will never feel exactly what it is to be a female, yet that male seeing fit to explain to the female that she sees it all wrong... that paints a situation that I don't believe mere words can solve. And I feel it's important to leave any further ambiguities out and try to see if we can come to the table and actually communicate. I'm not trying to analyze. I'm trying to find common ground.

 

[Saelune]

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

You can?t have a substantive discussion on a subject if you?re unwilling to provide the personal perspective from which you?re discussing it as in this case in particular it is significantly relevant. You cannot dumb down someone else?s perception and perspective and then not be willing to disclose from which angle you feel justified in stating your assertions with any kind of authority. And is the suggestion that he should ?just answer like you answer to a normal average person? a tacit suggestion that black people have an abnormal perspective?

These ideals you seem to hold that racial biases don?t exist, pose no bearing on discussions about and involving race, and that you decry as figments of the imagination of people who try to have meaningful discussions in the real world in which those biases very much DO exist makes any point you have to make extremely weak nigh nonsensical, and feels as little more than pompous virtue signaling. Your perspective is just that, YOURS, and unless you?re willing to share it, anything you have to say on a given matter might as well not be said at all.

You almost had it but it slipped through your grip at the last moment. It's not that black people have an abnormal perspective, it's that they don't have a unique one. Cause people are people. I'm treating them as equal so their perspective is equal to mine and to every other person's. It's neither abnormal nor uniquely significant. Both things are racist to assume.

And I thought I provided my perspective in the top post. My perspective is that of a human who exists and knows things and is entitled to a justified opinion with points buttressing it. I need not provide further information on this subject since it'll become more about the speaker and not about the ideas and their merits. If you personalize things any more, the discussion shifts into one about the people involved and not about the core issue. It distorts and becomes about how we perceive this or that thing and ends up being about ourselves and our egos and not about reality. I really don't care for that discussion when I'm making a post about the ideas at hand.

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

Actually, what I brought up was my native tongue. You can have a non-English native tongue and still be American just as much, since nationality doesn't come with a language certificate. Lots of American kids learn the tongue of their parents first and then go on to learn English as they grow older. Also, some people can be of dual citizenship, so they can be of two nationalities but only have one of the two nation's language as their native one, despite being a national of both nations.

Whole lot of assumptions are going on in here, ones that were I to make in a different situation, I'd be chastised for making haha.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

This is the second assumption you have made about me in two consecutive posts. This one just had the benefit of not offending me.

I am answering like I would to a normal, average person. I've posted enough in these forums to show that. I'm trying to get your play of things because I literally don't know. My experiences are mine, and they formed how I see the world. You have no idea of my and my family's life experiences.

Nor do I have any idea of yours. It's very easy to just get upset at someone who tells you that your experiences are made up in your head. It's like a guy going to a woman and saying "You know what? Periods, being physically weaker, having governments vote on your own body's rights...? Not that big of a deal". But I rather go the route of trying to understand where you came from, your similar or dissimilar upbringing, and any comparable experiences.

If this is truly a situation where a male will never feel exactly what it is to be a female, yet that male seeing fit to explain to the female that she sees it all wrong... that paints a situation that I don't believe mere words can solve. And I feel it's important to leave any further ambiguities out and try to see if we can come to the table and actually communicate. I'm not trying to analyze. I'm trying to find common ground.

Nobody will ever truly feel what it's like to be anybody but themselves.

That males will not feel what it's like to be female is just 0.000000001% of the totality of the things that they won't know what they feel like with regards to existing as a a different person. All the rest of them are things that they equally won't know what it's like, for both men and women.

Is the point that the tiny uniquely femininely arcane point of ignorance, one which pales in comparison to the much greater gulf of ignorance among people that we can never resolve, hence, indeed, is not such a big deal, such a crazy one?


I think it's silly to pretend that that minor difference makes something that's already totally incomprehensible any more incomprehensible.

Yet, we still strive to understand each-other, despite the gulf.


Hence, my conclusion is that the 0.0000001% of identity-based arcane difference is ultimately negligible, and if we can make it work despite the remaining 99.99999% of incomprehension, then we can make it work for everybody.


Tying this all back to my original (and surprisingly offensive, apparently x.x) point, lots of these things that are listed as part of the 0.0000001% are actually just part of the 99.999999% of incomprehension leading into misunderstanding and animosity and that's ever-present, for everyone.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

You can?t have a substantive discussion on a subject if you?re unwilling to provide the personal perspective from which you?re discussing it as in this case in particular it is significantly relevant. You cannot dumb down someone else?s perception and perspective and then not be willing to disclose from which angle you feel justified in stating your assertions with any kind of authority. And is the suggestion that he should ?just answer like you answer to a normal average person? a tacit suggestion that black people have an abnormal perspective?

These ideals you seem to hold that racial biases don?t exist, pose no bearing on discussions about and involving race, and that you decry as figments of the imagination of people who try to have meaningful discussions in the real world in which those biases very much DO exist makes any point you have to make extremely weak nigh nonsensical, and feels as little more than pompous virtue signaling. Your perspective is just that, YOURS, and unless you?re willing to share it, anything you have to say on a given matter might as well not be said at all.

You almost had it but it slipped through your grip at the last moment. It's not that black people have an abnormal perspective, it's that they don't have a unique one. Cause people are people. I'm treating them as equal so their perspective is equal to mine and to every other person's. It's neither abnormal nor uniquely significant. Both things are racist to assume.

And I thought I provided my perspective in the top post. My perspective is that of a human who exists and knows things and is entitled to a justified opinion with points buttressing it. I need not provide further information on this subject since it'll become more about the speaker and not about the ideas and their merits. If you personalize things any more, the discussion shifts into one about the people involved and not about the core issue. It distorts and becomes about how we perceive this or that thing and ends up being about ourselves and our egos and not about reality. I really don't care for that discussion when I'm making a post about the ideas at hand.

Wow? wrong. Just wrong. You do realize that that assertion directly contradicts the ideas of ?perspective? and ?perception?? right? I mean, you DO see that, don?t you? Discussion is fundamentally about getting other?s perspective precisely because they are different. Unless you?re entire aim was to simply stick your head into the discussion, say your point and walk away? Because if so, any one of us can easily read the words you wrote; if they?re not up for discussion and/or you simply do not wish to contextualize them for the purpose of earnest discourse, then there?s even less point to them that I initially gathered.

That, or you?re evidence of extraplanetary intelligent life, originating from a planet devoid of any and all bias, prejudice or individually unique perspectives on anything which is why you?re being so enigmatic with high-level details of your ?person??

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

Nobody will ever truly feel what it's like to be anybody but themselves.

That males will not feel what it's like to be female is just 0.000000001% of the totality of the things that they won't know what they feel like with regards to existing as a a different person. All the rest of them are things that they equally won't know what it's like, for both men and women.

Is the point that the tiny uniquely femininely arcane point of ignorance, one which pales in comparison to the much greater gulf of ignorance among people that we can never resolve, hence, indeed, is not such a big deal, such a crazy one?


I think it's silly to pretend that that minor difference makes something that's already totally incomprehensible any more incomprehensible.

Yet, we still strive to understand each-other, despite the gulf.


Hence, my conclusion is that the 0.0000001% of identity-based arcane difference is ultimately negligible, and if we can make it work despite the remaining 99.99999% of incomprehension, then we can make it work for everybody.


Tying this all back to my original (and surprisingly offensive, apparently x.x) point, lots of these things that are listed as part of the 0.0000001% are actually just part of the 99.999999% of incomprehension leading into misunderstanding and animosity and that's ever-present, for everyone.

That's fine. But if women are sharing their experiences and men have no idea about it, the aforementioned men don't get to discount the female experiences because as men, they never experienced these occurrences. That's the crux of the matter.

I've had a number of females who eventually became friends tell me that they were uncomfortable riding in elevators with me alone (or something to that affect) because of the strength and size difference. Although I would never do anything like that, they had to had that fear in their heads due to past experiences that they or people in their lives have felt. It is not up to me to tell them that I'm not like that. It's no where up to me to tell them that not all men are like that. Because it only takes one experience. It takes the knowledge that one choice, one enclosed space, and anyone of the 4 billion other creatures that you have little to no natural defense from can take your safety away.

Forever, in some cases.

I've been told to mind what I say because this wasn't New York City and my word doesn't carry as much weight as other liberal places.

I've been told that I could easily be arrested and no one would bat an eye even if I was innocent or not. Because that person would say I was guilty and that's all that matters.

I've had guns drawn on me to following directions. I need to reach into my glove compartment to hand over my proof of insurance.

I have tons of more personal experiences. But those seemingly mean nothing. So let's talk about pure numbers.

Hate Crimes have risen up for the fifth straight year [https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/08/01/report-hate-crime-is-rising-in-30-major-american-cities-infographic/#7510555db8d0]. Which might be only fitting because the number of Hate Groups rose again for the fourth consecutive year [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/us/hate-groups-rise.html]. And as sad to say, we might have to count police officers into that number as the Plain View Project has listed around 3,500 current and former police officers [https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/us/plain-view-project-police-investigating/index.html] sharing racist, homophobic, and misogynistic tidings.

The government's take on it? Limit or rollback existing protections for... reasons [https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/#2019]. While shifting the focus of scrutiny from right wing and white nationalists [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/right-wing-terrorist-killings-government-focus-jihadis-islamic-radicalism.html] to Black Identity Extremists who have a body count of... none [https://theintercept.com/2019/03/23/black-identity-extremist-fbi-domestic-terrorism/]. Because the perception that they will eventually rise up and do the things that right wing and white nationalists are doing right this second makes them a worst threat somehow?

These are not made up things.

And if you want to talk about making stuff up in your head, you literally just said this:

Calling one of the least racist societies to ever exist, both historically and in the modern era, a racist society, as opposed to a not completely nonracist one, is throwing it under the bus.

There are a significant number of people who vehemently disagree with you. Including the UN, who were issued a report on racial divide in the criminal system [https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/]... let alone the fact that they issued us a warning due to the racial divide being to boil over [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/25/un-warns-us-racism-but-trump-era-bigotry-not-blip-charlottesville]. And that was in 2017. As I just showed you, the rates have just been climbing every year since.

So what's the metric for making stuff up in your head? Simply disagreeing with the statement? Well, you just don't have me. You have Satinavian, Thaluikhain, and possibly others if they read it knowing that statement is false. Do we get to discount your worldview now and basically call you a liar by stating you made that up?

That was the offensive part, by the way. Saying I made it up [https://www.lexico.com/en/synonym/lie] is akin to taking the life experiences of my black friends, my family, my community, and myself (not to mention the data that's readily available to anyone who wishes to read it) and saying we're all lying about it.

In a thread that people were literally amazed that a white cop was found guilty in killing an innocent black male. Ruminate on that.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Nobody will ever truly feel what it's like to be anybody but themselves.

That males will not feel what it's like to be female is just 0.000000001% of the totality of the things that they won't know what they feel like with regards to existing as a a different person. All the rest of them are things that they equally won't know what it's like, for both men and women.

Is the point that the tiny uniquely femininely arcane point of ignorance, one which pales in comparison to the much greater gulf of ignorance among people that we can never resolve, hence, indeed, is not such a big deal, such a crazy one?


I think it's silly to pretend that that minor difference makes something that's already totally incomprehensible any more incomprehensible.

Yet, we still strive to understand each-other, despite the gulf.


Hence, my conclusion is that the 0.0000001% of identity-based arcane difference is ultimately negligible, and if we can make it work despite the remaining 99.99999% of incomprehension, then we can make it work for everybody.


Tying this all back to my original (and surprisingly offensive, apparently x.x) point, lots of these things that are listed as part of the 0.0000001% are actually just part of the 99.999999% of incomprehension leading into misunderstanding and animosity and that's ever-present, for everyone.

That's fine. But if women are sharing their experiences and men have no idea about it, the aforementioned men don't get to discount the female experiences because as men, they never experienced these occurrences. That's the crux of the matter.

I've had a number of females who eventually became friends tell me that they were uncomfortable riding in elevators with me alone (or something to that affect) because of the strength and size difference. Although I would never do anything like that, they had to had that fear in their heads due to past experiences that they or people in their lives have felt. It is not up to me to tell them that I'm not like that. It's no where up to me to tell them that not all men are like that. Because it only takes one experience. It takes the knowledge that one choice, one enclosed space, and anyone of the 4 billion other creatures that you have little to no natural defense from can take your safety away.

Forever, in some cases.

I've been told to mind what I say because this wasn't New York City and my word doesn't carry as much weight as other liberal places.

I've been told that I could easily be arrested and no one would bat an eye even if I was innocent or not. Because that person would say I was guilty and that's all that matters.

I've had guns drawn on me to following directions. I need to reach into my glove compartment to hand over my proof of insurance.

I have tons of more personal experiences. But those seemingly mean nothing. So let's talk about pure numbers.

Hate Crimes have risen up for the fifth straight year [https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/08/01/report-hate-crime-is-rising-in-30-major-american-cities-infographic/#7510555db8d0]. Which might be only fitting because the number of Hate Groups rose again for the fourth consecutive year [https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/us/hate-groups-rise.html]. And as sad to say, we might have to count police officers into that number as the Plain View Project has listed around 3,500 current and former police officers [https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/20/us/plain-view-project-police-investigating/index.html] sharing racist, homophobic, and misogynistic tidings.

The government's take on it? Limit or rollback existing protections for... reasons [https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/#2019]. While shifting the focus of scrutiny from right wing and white nationalists [https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/right-wing-terrorist-killings-government-focus-jihadis-islamic-radicalism.html] to Black Identity Extremists who have a body count of... none [https://theintercept.com/2019/03/23/black-identity-extremist-fbi-domestic-terrorism/]. Because the perception that they will eventually rise up and do the things that right wing and white nationalists are doing right this second makes them a worst threat somehow?

These are not made up things.

And if you want to talk about making stuff up in your head, you literally just said this:

Calling one of the least racist societies to ever exist, both historically and in the modern era, a racist society, as opposed to a not completely nonracist one, is throwing it under the bus.

There are a significant number of people who vehemently disagree with you. Including the UN, who were issued a report on racial divide in the criminal system [https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/un-report-on-racial-disparities/]... let alone the fact that they issued us a warning due to the racial divide being to boil over [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/25/un-warns-us-racism-but-trump-era-bigotry-not-blip-charlottesville]. And that was in 2017. As I just showed you, the rates have just been climbing every year since.

So what's the metric for making stuff up in your head? Simply disagreeing with the statement? Well, you just don't have me. You have Satinavian, Thaluikhain, and possibly others if they read it knowing that statement is false. Do we get to discount your worldview now and basically call you a liar by stating you made that up?

That was the offensive part, by the way. Saying I made it up [https://www.lexico.com/en/synonym/lie] is akin to taking the life experiences of my black friends, my family, my community, and myself (not to mention the data that's readily available to anyone who wishes to read it) and saying we're all lying about it.

In a thread that people were literally amazed that a white cop was found guilty in killing an innocent black male. Ruminate on that.

Here's the thing with the power imbalance elevator situation. The way those women put it is ignorant, as it implies all men are equally strong, or that no men have as much power differential between them as those women did with those men in the elevator. To make it into a woman issue instead of a weakling issue is indeed wrong. The fact that some women are more self-conscious or paranoid about being weaklings, is indeed all in their head. They are just as affected by their weakness as men who are as weak as them are.



To clarify my point about the gulf of incomprehension, some people just need an excuse to be evil to you. That they can get away with using your race as an excuse does NOT mean that it is your race that's the trigger. It's all the other things, the 99.99999% that they draw on that makes them want to be evil to you. What you're describing is a weird form of victim blaming and you're blaming yourself to boot. It's like these people just see black like how a bull sees red and can't help being evil when they're otherwise just calmly grazing.

No, these are just run of the mill evil people who will be cowards and only pick on those whom they see as lower than they. These people would be being evil to someone somehow either way. That's what these people just do. The issue you wanna fix to reduce racism is just overal social morality.



Finally, the UN has been sending some very anti-freedom of expression suggestions to Japan with regards to banning a ton of anime character sexual depictions that would if enacted illegalize about every good show ever (thankfully they reject them always haha) so I have come to doubt they know anything at all.

 

[Saelune]

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

Actually, what I brought up was my native tongue. You can have a non-English native tongue and still be American just as much, since nationality doesn't come with a language certificate. Lots of American kids learn the tongue of their parents first and then go on to learn English as they grow older. Also, some people can be of dual citizenship, so they can be of two nationalities but only have one of the two nation's language as their native one, despite being a national of both nations.

Whole lot of assumptions are going on in here, ones that were I to make in a different situation, I'd be chastised for making haha.

Assumptions? We are asking you to clear up any confusion to AVOID assumptions, yet you still havent elaborated. So fine, what is your 'native tongue' if you are in fact an American. I am trying to avoid assuming anything by getting clear facts.

 

[Xprimentyl]

[SNIP.

Here's the thing with the power imbalance elevator situation. The way those women put it is ignorant, as it implies all men are equally strong, or that no men have as much power differential between them as those women did with those men in the elevator. To make it into a woman issue instead of a weakling issue is indeed wrong. The fact that some women are more self-conscious or paranoid about being weaklings, is indeed all in their head. They are just as affected by their weakness as men who are as weak as them are.

To clarify my point about the gulf of incomprehension, some people just need an excuse to be evil to you. That they can get away with using your race as an excuse does NOT mean that it is your race that's the trigger. It's all the other things, the 99.99999% that they draw on that makes them want to be evil to you. What you're describing is a weird form of victim blaming and you're blaming yourself to boot. It's like these people just see black like how a bull sees red and can't help being evil when they're otherwise just calmly grazing.

No, these are just run of the mill evil people who will be cowards and only pick on those whom they see as lower than they. These people would be being evil to someone somehow either way. That's what these people just do. The issue you wanna fix to reduce racism is just overal social morality.

Finally, the UN has been sending some very anti-freedom of expression suggestions to Japan with regards to banning a ton of anime character sexual depictions that would if enacted illegalize about every good show ever (thankfully they reject them always haha) so I have come to doubt they know anything at all.

You must be trolling. No one could be this willfully tone deaf and ham-fistedly narcissistic and still expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Careful, you can get modded for saying someone is doing that (but actually not for doing that). Unless the code of conduct has been changed again.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Careful, you can get modded for saying someone is doing that (but actually not for doing that). Unless the code of conduct has been changed again.

Never been modded before, so I think my clean record can take the hit, but it wasn?t meant maliciously, just pointing out how his comments are coming across. Calling women who?re intimidated by a larger man ?ignorant? and that the problem is that they?re ?weaklings?? C?mon, does ANYONE think he?s serious?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

Actually, what I brought up was my native tongue. You can have a non-English native tongue and still be American just as much, since nationality doesn't come with a language certificate. Lots of American kids learn the tongue of their parents first and then go on to learn English as they grow older. Also, some people can be of dual citizenship, so they can be of two nationalities but only have one of the two nation's language as their native one, despite being a national of both nations.

Whole lot of assumptions are going on in here, ones that were I to make in a different situation, I'd be chastised for making haha.

Assumptions? We are asking you to clear up any confusion to AVOID assumptions, yet you still havent elaborated. So fine, what is your 'native tongue' if you are in fact an American. I am trying to avoid assuming anything by getting clear facts.

My point is that there shouldn't have been any confusion in those matters since they had hardly anything to do with anything and I definitely didn't broach them at all. Going in that direction at all feels like derailing.

But yeah Greek is my first language.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

You gloss so blatantly over so very much, the certitude with which you make your statements is bewildering, that?s why I suggested tone deafness and narcissism.

In keeping with the example of gender difference (or apparent lack thereof,) while many traits are not strictly unique to one or the other, that potential for diversity of some traits certainly does not entirely mitigate the rules from the exceptions? In a sample group of 50 average men and 50 average women, you?re saying 49.99995 of the women (or your hyperbolic 99.99999%) would be equally capable in every physical aspect as the men?

There are myriad physiological and psychological reasons we discuss gender differences and they matter. There are myriad sociological and historical reasons we discuss race relations and they matter. Your flippantly suggesting simply being human beings gives us each a singular, de facto ?human? perspective and any person with a perspective more nuanced than that is ?ignorant? or ?wrong? IS insulting. I can?t speak for all of the other 7 billion people on this planet, but I?d bet my bottom dollar the vast majority don?t see the human experience as binarily as you claim it ?factually? is.

 

[Saelune]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

Actually, what I brought up was my native tongue. You can have a non-English native tongue and still be American just as much, since nationality doesn't come with a language certificate. Lots of American kids learn the tongue of their parents first and then go on to learn English as they grow older. Also, some people can be of dual citizenship, so they can be of two nationalities but only have one of the two nation's language as their native one, despite being a national of both nations.

Whole lot of assumptions are going on in here, ones that were I to make in a different situation, I'd be chastised for making haha.

Assumptions? We are asking you to clear up any confusion to AVOID assumptions, yet you still havent elaborated. So fine, what is your 'native tongue' if you are in fact an American. I am trying to avoid assuming anything by getting clear facts.

My point is that there shouldn't have been any confusion in those matters since they had hardly anything to do with anything and I definitely didn't broach them at all. Going in that direction at all feels like derailing.

But yeah Greek is my first language.

If you dont like things you brought up being used against you, dont bring them up.

Not everyone has the same experiences, which is totally fair, but what is not fair is being unable to recognize when your own experiences limit your understanding of a topic.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

You gloss so blatantly over so very much, the certitude with which you make your statements is bewildering, that?s why I suggested tone deafness and narcissism.

In keeping with the example of gender difference (or apparent lack thereof,) while many traits are not strictly unique to one or the other, that potential for diversity of some traits certainly does not entirely mitigate the rules from the exceptions? In a sample group of 50 average men and 50 average women, you?re saying 49.99995 of the women (or your hyperbolic 99.99999%) would be equally capable in every physical aspect as the men?

There are myriad physiological and psychological reasons we discuss gender differences and they matter. There are myriad sociological and historical reasons we discuss race relations and they matter. Your flippantly suggesting simply being human beings gives us each a singular, de facto ?human? perspective and any person with a perspective more nuanced than that is ?ignorant? or ?wrong? IS insulting. I can?t speak for all of the other 7 billion people on this planet, but I?d bet my bottom dollar the vast majority don?t see the human experience as binarily as you claim it ?factually? is.

No, I said that women have the same reasons to be afraid of being in elevators as average men do being in elevators with bodybuilders (or even gay bodybuilders, to add a potential rape dynamic in the picture).


I'd definitely call ignorant someone who legitimately is afraid of being in an elevator with a bodybuilder cause they on average will be significantly weaker than the bodybuilder. I'd also call them a lot more rude things. It's a ridiculous fear in this day and age.



Oh and the 99.99999 part is pertaining to the things one will not know what they feel like with regards to being the other person. Not knowing what it's like to be as weak as the average woman is nothing compared to what else you can't know about being the average woman. To overly focus on that sliver of ignorance in the face of the greater gulf of it just makes no sense at all.

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

Ok so a couple of things.

I didn't see a "call" for forgiveness anywhere. The brother just did it on his own, unprompted. You may feel like there is such a call being made implicitly or you may not but either way, and this ties with my next point, it's all ultimately in your head.


I think this feeling of being on a wanted list is just paranoia and a form of persecution complex. Most normal people don't think of black people's lives as not mattering. It's just that we're being bombarded with the events that would be occurring to someone somewhere anyways and that makes it feel this way because we aren't also shown all the good interactions between peoples and communities that also must be occurring because every single time you go anywhere you don't see riots and bloodstains. Again, it's how you deal with this information that affects how you'll feel. When I hear about a white or Greek or whatever dude dying I don't feel personally threatened. It's just some dude in the end, what contributed to his demise was a combination of bad luck and a trillion choices which put him on that end. Especially with this case, when you have a dark room and you're sitting there eating ice cream and the crazy cop lady barges in and shoots you, you're dead no matter what color you are since it's too dark to see either way. Point being, it's kinda off to link this with other more clearly racially-motivated incidents and use it to fuel your worries like you'd use the other ones.


Finally, I don't see actual chaos stemming from being too good and too forgiving. I see people being shamed through it into self-reflection. The people who'd take it as a green light to go nuts would never be reformed either way but the greater society can look onto the tragedy and be shocked into awareness. Hell, that's kinda the definition of Christianity. You kinda have to have someone big getting crucified before you can stop being assholes and realize it's a bad thing to crucify people. It's part of why I don't care for the faith but you can't deny that this country is deeply rooted in it.

Before I answer anything, I'm not sure of your background, race, or location. Can you share that before I go on?

Just answer like you answer to a normal average person dude. Normally I'd have no issue talking about this stuff but not as something that's gonna affect how you analyze my points which I am putting forward to have them stand on their merits and not buttressed by whatever identity boxes I may or may not tick through pure chance.

That story is just too fishy for me. There had to have been something shady going on there, nobody can be this dumb.

Either way, good thing that she's going away. Lock your doors.

when this first happened it was reported she was drunk. The police department determined on their own she wasnt. So maybe they swept it under the rug, so no one looks into drinking on the job and drunk driving police.

Either way color me surprised. I totally expected her to get off. Makes me wonder though if a white Male officer would have been found guilty? And I say that as a white Male- it's interesting the cop found guilty was a woman.

I am surprised you made this point before I could.

I am absolutely glad she got punished, but I do think that male cop after male cop is not punished, but this woman not given the same treatment?

No if anything a male would be punished harsher. It's documented that women get something like half as severe sentences for the same crime as men do.

They get to throw a cop under the bus to help PR and they get rid of a woman who is trying to do a 'man's job'.

We're talking cops here, not regular criminals.

Is being a cop a man's job? First time I hear that lol. I don't know of anyone in this day and age who'd really think that.

Oh please, you absolutely have heard that. PoliceMAN is one of THE 'Man' jobs. Like, its number two after BusinessMAN and before FireMAN. (Number 4 is MailMAN)

Its a physical job about power and violence. Seriously, it is one of the most stereotypical 'Man' jobs out there.

You say that but in my native tongue there's a male and a female word for cops based on their gender so not growing up with that makes it now seem like more of the man in "human" not in "male". You know, like how mankind applies to women too?


Also, apparently she only got 10 years. This was kinda my point about women being sentenced less for the same crimes on average. This was an actual murder conviction too, it could go up to a life sentence.

You bring up your nationality vaguely as a defense then refuse to elaborate on it. You cant eat your cake and have it too.

Actually, what I brought up was my native tongue. You can have a non-English native tongue and still be American just as much, since nationality doesn't come with a language certificate. Lots of American kids learn the tongue of their parents first and then go on to learn English as they grow older. Also, some people can be of dual citizenship, so they can be of two nationalities but only have one of the two nation's language as their native one, despite being a national of both nations.

Whole lot of assumptions are going on in here, ones that were I to make in a different situation, I'd be chastised for making haha.

Assumptions? We are asking you to clear up any confusion to AVOID assumptions, yet you still havent elaborated. So fine, what is your 'native tongue' if you are in fact an American. I am trying to avoid assuming anything by getting clear facts.

My point is that there shouldn't have been any confusion in those matters since they had hardly anything to do with anything and I definitely didn't broach them at all. Going in that direction at all feels like derailing.

But yeah Greek is my first language.

If you dont like things you brought up being used against you, dont bring them up.

Not everyone has the same experiences, which is totally fair, but what is not fair is being unable to recognize when your own experiences limit your understanding of a topic.

I didn't bring it up in this conversation. That was a different one. About policeman and policewoman being words in Greek.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

You gloss so blatantly over so very much, the certitude with which you make your statements is bewildering, that?s why I suggested tone deafness and narcissism.

In keeping with the example of gender difference (or apparent lack thereof,) while many traits are not strictly unique to one or the other, that potential for diversity of some traits certainly does not entirely mitigate the rules from the exceptions? In a sample group of 50 average men and 50 average women, you?re saying 49.99995 of the women (or your hyperbolic 99.99999%) would be equally capable in every physical aspect as the men?

There are myriad physiological and psychological reasons we discuss gender differences and they matter. There are myriad sociological and historical reasons we discuss race relations and they matter. Your flippantly suggesting simply being human beings gives us each a singular, de facto ?human? perspective and any person with a perspective more nuanced than that is ?ignorant? or ?wrong? IS insulting. I can?t speak for all of the other 7 billion people on this planet, but I?d bet my bottom dollar the vast majority don?t see the human experience as binarily as you claim it ?factually? is.

No, I said that women have the same reasons to be afraid of being in elevators as average men do being in elevators with bodybuilders (or even gay bodybuilders, to add a potential rape dynamic in the picture).

I'd definitely call ignorant someone who legitimately is afraid of being in an elevator with a bodybuilder cause they on average will be significantly weaker than the bodybuilder. I'd also call them a lot more rude things. It's a ridiculous fear in this day and age.

Are you willfully misconstruing or over-simplifying the example ObsidionJones provided to make his points seem ridiculous? Of course the women weren?t afraid simply because of his superior strength; you have to know that situation (and many we?ve cited as other examples) are more nuanced than that.

Larger, muscular men are seen as superior male specimens; in the animal kingdom, those tend to be what?s called ?alpha males.? Alpha males exhibit traits of dominance, asserting their will and maintaining the pecking order within a pack which often involves mating. Females in the animal kingdom often assume submissive roles, submitting to the will of the alpha, which often involves mating. Now, layer on thousands of years of evolution, sentience, the ability to be self-aware, the complexities of an advanced society which has since expanded well beyond basic hunter-gatherer roles AND the fact that that society is rife with stories of psychopaths and disinhibited savages incapable of rationalizing baser animal instincts who act impulsively and violently, then yes, a modern day woman?s instinct to at the very list be wary when in an enclosed space with a larger man is extremely rational. Why do you think 99.99999% of NFL players have had sexual assault cases leveled at them?? And believe it or not, race relations are influenced by equally complex factors which cannot simply be dismissed because ?it?s just humans interacting with each other.? You shrug off thousands of years of the evolving human experience like it and the lessons we?ve learned aren?t what brought us to today? gimme a break.

If you honestly can?t (or are dismissively unwilling) to see the world as it factually is, where skin tone, what?s between one?s legs, what god one does or does not believe in, how much is one?s bank account, etc. all ACTUALLY affect the individual experience within it, then I envy you; it?s a privilege I and a few billion others out here will never be afforded.

I don?t know who will actually watch this (well, listen, you don?t need to see it to get it,) but I think it applies. Baratunde Thurston?s TED Talk [https://youtu.be/RZgkjEdMbSw] deconstructs racism through the headlines we read every day. He does an excellent job of expressing how black people perceive and are perceived in the modern world, the very REAL struggles that come with it and offers solutions on how all sides can hopefully get around them.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Those women are like the guy who is of average height and build but thinks he's a pushover because bodybuilders exist. It's definitely irrational to not be comfortable being in an elevator with someone on that basis.

And I dunno, I think the term weakling describes someone who is so much weaker than someone else so as to be as fearful as that pretty aptly and people of both sexes can be that. My point is that male weaklings don't worry nearly as much about their weakling status so female ones also shouldn't.

You gloss so blatantly over so very much, the certitude with which you make your statements is bewildering, that?s why I suggested tone deafness and narcissism.

In keeping with the example of gender difference (or apparent lack thereof,) while many traits are not strictly unique to one or the other, that potential for diversity of some traits certainly does not entirely mitigate the rules from the exceptions? In a sample group of 50 average men and 50 average women, you?re saying 49.99995 of the women (or your hyperbolic 99.99999%) would be equally capable in every physical aspect as the men?

There are myriad physiological and psychological reasons we discuss gender differences and they matter. There are myriad sociological and historical reasons we discuss race relations and they matter. Your flippantly suggesting simply being human beings gives us each a singular, de facto ?human? perspective and any person with a perspective more nuanced than that is ?ignorant? or ?wrong? IS insulting. I can?t speak for all of the other 7 billion people on this planet, but I?d bet my bottom dollar the vast majority don?t see the human experience as binarily as you claim it ?factually? is.

No, I said that women have the same reasons to be afraid of being in elevators as average men do being in elevators with bodybuilders (or even gay bodybuilders, to add a potential rape dynamic in the picture).

I'd definitely call ignorant someone who legitimately is afraid of being in an elevator with a bodybuilder cause they on average will be significantly weaker than the bodybuilder. I'd also call them a lot more rude things. It's a ridiculous fear in this day and age.

Are you willfully misconstruing or over-simplifying the example ObsidionJones provided to make his points seem ridiculous? Of course the women weren?t afraid simply because of his superior strength; you have to know that situation (and many we?ve cited as other examples) are more nuanced than that.

Larger, muscular men are seen as superior male specimens; in the animal kingdom, those tend to be what?s called ?alpha males.? Alpha males exhibit traits of dominance, asserting their will and maintaining the pecking order within a pack which often involves mating. Females in the animal kingdom often assume submissive roles, submitting to the will of the alpha, which often involves mating. Now, layer on thousands of years of evolution, sentience, the ability to be self-aware, the complexities of an advanced society which has since expanded well beyond basic hunter-gatherer roles AND the fact that that society is rife with stories of psychopaths and disinhibited savages incapable of rationalizing baser animal instincts who act impulsively and violently, then yes, a modern day woman?s instinct to at the very list be wary when in an enclosed space with a larger man is extremely rational. Why do you think 99.99999% of NFL players have had sexual assault cases leveled at them?? And believe it or not, race relations are influenced by equally complex factors which cannot simply be dismissed because ?it?s just humans interacting with each other.? You shrug off thousands of years of the evolving human experience like it and the lessons we?ve learned aren?t what brought us to today? gimme a break.

If you honestly can?t (or are dismissively unwilling) to see the world as it factually is, where skin tone, what?s between one?s legs, what god one does or does not believe in, how much is one?s bank account, etc. all ACTUALLY affect the individual experience within it, then I envy you; it?s a privilege I and a few billion others out here will never be afforded.

I don?t know who will actually watch this (well, listen, you don?t need to see it to get it,) but I think it applies. Baratunde Thurston?s TED Talk [https://youtu.be/RZgkjEdMbSw] deconstructs racism through the headlines we read every day. He does an excellent job of expressing how black people perceive and are perceived in the modern world, the very REAL struggles that come with it and offers solutions on how all sides can hopefully get around them.

Your exact reasoning for why women can be rationally fearful in an elevator could be used to justify a man contemplating raping them in that same elevator. I guess due to that it's self-reinforcing but do you honestly think of men as doing that? Would you be willing to explain away a man who felt that in the same way you're explaining this fear? Would you see a man who admitted to holding back his feelings of primitive dominance as anything other than a monster with crazy thoughts?

I posit to you that it's the same in the case of fearing this monstrous response. Neither is rational in a civilized context. Not any more so than fearing thunder or the dark. You have people who fear both things despite being in the safety of their house but it is seen as something they need to overcome as individuals, despite it being ingrained in their DNA, not something you just accept and mold society around.

Civilizing people acts to remove those elements. A rational individual would, if a such instinctual fear arises, wave it off as themselves being irrational. Submitting to this fear and expecting society to bend in its wake is not the way forward. It uses the cage of primitive emotion we've escaped to make shackles and hold us back.


Athletes are prone to abuse drugs that make someone more aggressive to build muscle so that contributes to them acting on their impulses. That goes a long way explaining that NFL stat.


And I like watching random ted talks so sure, I'll watch it. The last one I watched was about this black musician who befriended KKK members and talked them out of being members of the KKK through their commonalities as humans (apparently one of them was the big wizard too), highly recommended.