Thank you, not for the apology, but for stopping double standards that appears to happen a lot these days. If a man does something quite often it is sexist, but if the shoe's on the other foot, it's perfectly acceptable.
An Apology to Jon Finkel
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
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I saw some of her twitter updates, and yes, she is indeed a stuck-up, rude, bad person (I could say other words, but I won't). Girls can be snarky and stuck up just like guys.
I'm not gay but if I was to go for any man it would be a Magic world champion.
I jest, I jest, but seriosuness that was a complete dick move to judge him on a harmless passtime he enjoys, but to publicly insult him like that. How is playing a card game any more geeky that playing video games? If a girl has a problem with my geeky interests then she is a girl I don't want to be with, no matter how attractive.
I jest, I jest, but seriosuness that was a complete dick move to judge him on a harmless passtime he enjoys, but to publicly insult him like that. How is playing a card game any more geeky that playing video games? If a girl has a problem with my geeky interests then she is a girl I don't want to be with, no matter how attractive.
Alas this is neither the first nor the last time that someone has or will be looked down upon because of something ultimately insignificant like their hobbies.
Susan, you're apology is accepted and in return I hereby appologise for the equally tactless behavior shown by men (I personally believe that men and women are just as bad as each other when it comes to acting like this).
While that is true that a) doesn't make it acceptable and b) doubley isn't acceptible where in this case the person who was named and shamed hadn't actually done anything wrong (enjoying something that is typically viewed as 'nerdy' isn't exactly grounds for publicly chastising someone).Nimcha said:
Susan, you're apology is accepted and in return I hereby appologise for the equally tactless behavior shown by men (I personally believe that men and women are just as bad as each other when it comes to acting like this).
Read the first link and... what a coincidence to go out with a world champion of something and mention it like it's lame without any knowledge beforehand, no?
Honestly? I'd probably just laugh at it.TrilbyWill said:
Anyone that gets offended by someone deriding them isn't mature or confident enough to be interacting with other human beings, period. Let people think what they will, it doesn't change anything.
because it the whole mess speaks to us, you know when you get into a relationship and that awkward moment arrives that you have to "discuss" your hobby not knowing whether the other party will be interested or not...Nimcha said:
Well its that, but she decided to bait him into a second date and then berate him for his hobby publicly.
Damn that's just childish and mean, not the type of thing you think would fly as paid journalism.
Great. As if males with "nerdy" hobbies needed MORE reasons to think that they might not be considered date-worthy by women.
I play card games, video games, tabletop wargames, and board games. I play DnD. I watch crap-tons of anime and read even MORE crap-tons of manga, comic books, and webcomics. I write a lot of stuff in my spare time (some of which I used to post here on The Escapist, back when the Review Section wasn't as popular as it is today). And all the time I'm in public, I'm a bit unnerved about how people would react to me if they knew how much of this "geeky" stuff I like. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my hobbies and I'll never stop enjoying them and trying to get other people to understand them, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the thought of people mocking me for it... especially women, who aren't as large a presence within geek culture and can be much more judgmental about it.
Now look at this story. Here's a guy, who by all appearances, was a true gentleman (the only one on the dating site she used), they had a great date, and then she finds out (le gasp) he plays a collectible card game (one of the oldest, if not THE oldest). And she drops him like a brick, even though he is THE CHAMPION of the game, and he's apparently also a professional poker player who's won millions of dollars. And then she writes about it online in an article. It's not only horribly unprofessional to oust Finkel, it's also a slap in the face to any man with a nerd hobby. Remember men, no matter how successful you become... if you DARE to have something geeky that you're passionate about, there are a good portion of women who will consider you a social leper. Thanks Alyssa, but while I'm carrying this cross, could you please bother to hammer in the nails for me? I'd love that.
For those who consider this (and similar responses) to be overly dramatic: not everyone is a bastion of self-confidence.
I play card games, video games, tabletop wargames, and board games. I play DnD. I watch crap-tons of anime and read even MORE crap-tons of manga, comic books, and webcomics. I write a lot of stuff in my spare time (some of which I used to post here on The Escapist, back when the Review Section wasn't as popular as it is today). And all the time I'm in public, I'm a bit unnerved about how people would react to me if they knew how much of this "geeky" stuff I like. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of my hobbies and I'll never stop enjoying them and trying to get other people to understand them, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the thought of people mocking me for it... especially women, who aren't as large a presence within geek culture and can be much more judgmental about it.
Now look at this story. Here's a guy, who by all appearances, was a true gentleman (the only one on the dating site she used), they had a great date, and then she finds out (le gasp) he plays a collectible card game (one of the oldest, if not THE oldest). And she drops him like a brick, even though he is THE CHAMPION of the game, and he's apparently also a professional poker player who's won millions of dollars. And then she writes about it online in an article. It's not only horribly unprofessional to oust Finkel, it's also a slap in the face to any man with a nerd hobby. Remember men, no matter how successful you become... if you DARE to have something geeky that you're passionate about, there are a good portion of women who will consider you a social leper. Thanks Alyssa, but while I'm carrying this cross, could you please bother to hammer in the nails for me? I'd love that.
For those who consider this (and similar responses) to be overly dramatic: not everyone is a bastion of self-confidence.
When hundreds of thousands play the game and they read this, they feel insulted. They feel ostracized and they feel like the class wars from High School still exist and they've been labeled as sad little nerds by a person who is looking down on them just because they play a game they enjoy. Could they ignore it? Yes, they easily could, but its not right to let something like this go unanswered. If she feels that MTG players are nerdy, fine, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't voice their disagreement.666Chaos said:
So, what you're saying is that if you went on a date with someone and they later wrote about it, published it in a public forum, got paid for it and the entire article focussed solely on the single most embarassing/geeky/whatever thing about you and derided you as a 'date from hell', publically naming you in the process (as her original version of the article did), you'd be totally fine with that?The Random One said:
You either be trolling, you have some seriously thick skin or you're actually a tabloid journalist IRL.
Men shouldn't have to apologize for other men, and women shouldn't feel compelled to apologize for other women. It's unfortunate that we as a society tend to group "fault" or guilt for actions into social, racial or gender groups, rather than seeing it as the action of one individual moron, WHICH IT WAS.
Was she rude? Yeah. But ask 100 people what reasons they would NOT date somebody, and you'll get a boatload of responses that a) don't make sense and b) are based in some kind of prejudice that would be considered offensive. You know why? Because people are friggin' intolerant when it comes to dating and romance. They have to be very selective, and often this selection process is not based on rational decisions, but their own (biased/bigoted) instincts. You can bet many who consider themselves enlightened or tolerant would also show these tendencies in the dating world, despite their vision of themselves not being that way. And they probably aren't really that way... In the rest of their lives.
Dating is deeply personal, not rational. Is this chick dumb? Yeah, but what I'm saying is that in our own way, we've all been (or will all be) this unreasonable or stupid about romance.
Was she rude? Yeah. But ask 100 people what reasons they would NOT date somebody, and you'll get a boatload of responses that a) don't make sense and b) are based in some kind of prejudice that would be considered offensive. You know why? Because people are friggin' intolerant when it comes to dating and romance. They have to be very selective, and often this selection process is not based on rational decisions, but their own (biased/bigoted) instincts. You can bet many who consider themselves enlightened or tolerant would also show these tendencies in the dating world, despite their vision of themselves not being that way. And they probably aren't really that way... In the rest of their lives.
Dating is deeply personal, not rational. Is this chick dumb? Yeah, but what I'm saying is that in our own way, we've all been (or will all be) this unreasonable or stupid about romance.
I want to throw my support behind Jon as well. As a guy who works most of the time I have been in almost identical situations when it comes to online dating (sans the public humiliation). Sounds like he handled the whole situation with grace and style. take the good with the bad and move on, gg bro.
If she doesn't want to date a pro-Magic player, I think we can all agree that is fine. People have their personal tastes in the opposite sex--that they don't necessarily need to overcome for the benefit of the other.
Of course, when things don't work out, you don't write a big article about it. You simply each go your separate ways. Simple as that.
But this line makes me wonder if the article has some merit:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people I sort of know, including one of my co-workers."
It needs more explanation, but unless they both live in a town of 10,000 people or so, it does sound a little wierd.
In any case, for an article like this to happen, I'm thinking there is more than meets the eye.
Of course, when things don't work out, you don't write a big article about it. You simply each go your separate ways. Simple as that.
But this line makes me wonder if the article has some merit:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people I sort of know, including one of my co-workers."
It needs more explanation, but unless they both live in a town of 10,000 people or so, it does sound a little wierd.
In any case, for an article like this to happen, I'm thinking there is more than meets the eye.