An hypothetical question for recent Fallout fans

[Fwee]

I tried that game when it came out. Awful stuff, just plain crap. I hadn't yet played a Fallout game at the time, and at least I knew that they were different. I wanted to play this one for a Baldur's Gate-style game, and was so disappointed with how bad it was.

 

[Corporal Yakob]

This was the first Fallout game I ever played and I enjoyed it, I like this sort of fast co-operative orieniated action RPG.

Oi put down those pitchforks!

That said, Fallout 3 and New Vegas were infinitly better and I'm soon going to aquire the collection of 1, 2 and Tactics.

 

[Vkmies]

Well, we still have 2d around. One of the biggest selling steam games of the moment (Terraria) is 2d. Dozens of 2d-games are still released to the market. The fact that we have 3d shouldn't mean that all other viewpoints should die in a fire, ESPECIALLY when it's just about the personal preference. I don't think making a game that uses a primitive viewpoint is taking a step backwards, if anything it's bringing different possibilities and genres to the market, which is a good thing. I am not denying that Fallout 3 or NV are good games, 'cause they are, I am simply trying to defend another, different style of making a game.

Like Cowabungaa himself said, why limit your options? I personally think that letting a game-style die isn't giving options, I think it limits them. Letting this viewpoint die, would mean the death of another style of game. Even though it may be limiting to use isometric view, that might not be a bad thing. That is like saying that there is no use of using 2d, because 3d let's you see more. I don't really think having isometric games would hurt the industry. We have licensed games to do that.

As evilneko rightfully said; third person is the natural evolution of isometric. There is nothing isometric can offer that third person can't. It's different with 2D and 3D as 2D simply offers a completely different gameplay experience compared to 3D. Isometric compared to third-person? I'm not seeing it.

Having options is nice, but using archaic technology for the sake of using archaic technology is just pointless. It's dead easy to incorporate an isometric option in a third person game as well. I believe The Witcher did it, for example. Ain't that enough? You say it won't be a bad thing to restrict a modern Fallout game to isometric, but why would it be a good thing? Why would I want to lock my camara into place? What do I, someone who isn't hung up on nostalgia, have to gain from it? I'd like to look up to that huge, crumbling, 50's style skyscraper. Can't do that with isometric.

That said, I'd welcome a third person Fallout game with cutting edge graphics and every bit as sprawling and open as the first 2 Fallouts. Low intel playthroughs? Yes please. And let's throw in an isometric option to please the nostalgia fans.

Well, we still have 2d around. One of the biggest selling steam games of the moment (Terraria) is 2d. Dozens of 2d-games are still released to the market. The fact that we have 3d shouldn't mean that all other viewpoints should die in a fire, ESPECIALLY when it's just about the personal preference. I don't think making a game that uses a primitive viewpoint is taking a step backwards, if anything it's bringing different possibilities and genres to the market, which is a good thing. I am not denying that Fallout 3 or NV are good games, 'cause they are, I am simply trying to defend another, different style of making a game.

Like Cowabungaa himself said, why limit your options? I personally think that letting a game-style die isn't giving options, I think it limits them. Letting this viewpoint die, would mean the death of another style of game. Even though it may be limiting to use isometric view, that might not be a bad thing. That is like saying that there is no use of using 2d, because 3d let's you see more. I don't really think having isometric games would hurt the industry. We have licensed games to do that.

As evilneko rightfully said; third person is the natural evolution of isometric. There is nothing isometric can offer that third person can't. It's different with 2D and 3D as 2D simply offers a completely different gameplay experience compared to 3D. Isometric compared to third-person? I'm not seeing it.

Having options is nice, but using archaic technology for the sake of using archaic technology is just pointless. It's dead easy to incorporate an isometric option in a third person game as well. I believe The Witcher did it, for example. Ain't that enough? You say it won't be a bad thing to restrict a modern Fallout game to isometric, but why would it be a good thing? Why would I want to lock my camara into place? What do I, someone who isn't hung up on nostalgia, have to gain from it? I'd like to look up to that huge, crumbling, 50's style skyscraper. Can't do that with isometric.

That said, I'd welcome a third person Fallout game with cutting edge graphics and every bit as sprawling and open as the first 2 Fallouts. Low intel playthroughs? Yes please. And let's throw in an isometric option to please the nostalgia fans.

Well, I personally think that isometric can be a different experience to first person and third-person-behind-the-back views. I wouldn't say that I'm hung up in nostalgia, if we drop the fact that I would had preferred Fallout 3 and NV to be in isometric view. It's all about personal preference. You like your Fallout 3d, I'd like it in isometric. I can totally see where you are coming from and I hope you are not taking this as bashing of 3d view. I can see isometric view point being used as a style-choice, gameplay-choice and a budget-choice. I personally think that full 3d capabilities can ruin aesthetics of a game. Games like Heroes of Might and Magic and Jagged Alliance, I think should've stayed in isometric mode.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that while I have absolutely no problem with 3d, I think isometric mode works better in some games and that I don't really see the point of completely destroying it, when there are alot of systems and talented studios that could still make up awesome games using it.

 

[evilneko]

I tried watching a Let's Play of Fallout 1, got bored and lost interest in about an hour. This being an RPG, it's probably more fun to play than watch.

It's not much more fun to play. It's actually quite frustrating to play. I'd be all for a modern remake of it though. Even if it was a total conversion of FO3 still struggling along on the Gamebryo engine, I'd probably buy it.

 

[zombiejoe]

I would try it out. I heard BOS wasn't very good, but maybe the new game would be better.

 

[Nulmas]

I tried watching a Let's Play of Fallout 1, got bored and lost interest in about an hour. This being an RPG, it's probably more fun to play than watch.

It's not much more fun to play. It's actually quite frustrating to play. I'd be all for a modern remake of it though. Even if it was a total conversion of FO3 still struggling along on the Gamebryo engine, I'd probably buy it.

Actually, it's pretty straight forward once you figure it out. And remember, people nowadays aren't used to games like that. Back then, the game was actually intuitive.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Well, I personally think that isometric can be a different experience to first person and third-person-behind-the-back views.

How?

Keeping in mind that you can put a third person game into an isometric view.

I personally think that full 3d capabilities can ruin aesthetics of a game.

How?

An isometric view in Fallout does not give me impossing views of a ruined, 50's-style civilization. Not that the GameBryo engine was that good at it, but y'know. I can only imagine the possibilities with Bethesda's new engine that they're going to use for Skyrim. Oh baby.

I wouldn't say that I'm hung up in nostalgia

So what is it then? Do explain, I'm curious.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that while I have absolutely no problem with 3d, I think isometric mode works better in some games and that I don't really see the point of completely destroying it, when there are alot of systems and talented studios that could still make up awesome games using it.

Mind you, I never said it should be completely destroyed. It's dead-easy to lock your camara into an isometric view, so why not do that? Why is that not good enough and should the ability to do anything you want with the camara, including isometric, be scrapped entirely for the whims of a few?

And again, what does it have to offer? Why isometric over third-person, especially when third-person can include isometric.

As for budget, I doubt Fallout has to worry about that. Still not seeing what it has to do with a gameplay choice either. Nowadays, it's just a camara viewpoint, that's all. And a very limited one too.

 

[Starke]

Ah yes, Fallot PoS. The gem, which forever keeps Tactics from being the worst game in the franchise.

I have to say that I truly have no idea what the fuck was supposed to be happening in those.

I shouldn't laugh at lolcats, but that pair caught me by surprise, good show.

 

[Mekado]

It belongs in the same dark pit of "i'm washing my brain with bleach so i forget it exists" as Command & Conquer Renegade and X-Com enforcer...


Captcha: pipe down ....hahaha

 

[Starke]

You broke the first rule of fallout fandom: Never mention BoS

The correct designation is, and shall remain "Fallout: PoS".

 

[Starke]

It belongs in the same dark pit of "i'm washing my brain with bleach so i forget it exists" as Command & Conquer Renegade and X-Com enforcer...


Captcha: pipe down ....hahaha

Funny you should mention that. The runner up for worst Fallout Title actually is an X-Com clone. A rather good, if buggy X-Com clone, but still very sub-par for the series.

Also, I actually rather liked Renegade.

 

[Wintermoot]

from what I have seen it breaks continuity (I think I saw a intro vid once where a GAS POWERED CAR drove through the wasteland this is impossible since they ran out of oil or it became very expensive)

 

[Nulmas]

Also, I actually rather liked Renegade.

I second that

 

[inFAMOUSCowZ]

I have never played that fallout but isn't it supposed to be terrible?

"Looks at comments"

Yup never mind I guess it was.

 

[Mekado]

It belongs in the same dark pit of "i'm washing my brain with bleach so i forget it exists" as Command & Conquer Renegade and X-Com enforcer...


Captcha: pipe down ....hahaha

Funny you should mention that. The runner up for worst Fallout Title actually is an X-Com clone. A rather good, if buggy X-Com clone, but still very sub-par for the series.

Also, I actually rather liked Renegade.

You're talking about Tactics ? i liked it

 

[ZZoMBiE13]

That was actually my first Fallout game. It wasn't the worst Dungeon Crawler game I played. But looking back most of the trappings of Fallout seem to be tacked on and arbitrary. Like they could have just as easily called it "Mad Max" or "A Boy and His Dog: The Game".

When the original Fallouts were released I didn't have even a decent PC. So I never got much exposure to the world of Fallout until FO3 in 2008. It's a shame really. I tried to go back and play the old FO titles, but they're too old now. I'm not graphics whore or anything, but without nostalgia to drive you through it's tough to get into them nowadays. What I did see of the first 2 games was pretty brilliant though. It's the same with a lot of my old favorites from the SNES or NES. As great as they were originally, going back isn't always the wisest option.

 

[Cheesus333]

Well, if you shot Jesus with a Gatling Laser he wouldn't get back up again.

I am really trying to figure out how somebody could get "Jesus" and "Gatling Laser" into one sentence, awesome though it might be.

Caesar's Legion could do it.

Ohh, he's on a roll!

 

[IDTheftVictim]

So it's none of the Fallout gameplay I fell in love with(Fallout 3 and on), all the atmosphere is gone, and Ron Perlman isn't in it. Plus it nearly killed the part of me that wanted to try the origional Fallout. I'd go with the kill it with fire, but that seems uncreative at this point, so I'll sneak a frag mine into it's back pocket.

My captcha was an ad

 

[Vkmies]

Well, I personally think that isometric can be a different experience to first person and third-person-behind-the-back views.

How?

Keeping in mind that you can put a third person game into an isometric view.

I personally think that full 3d capabilities can ruin aesthetics of a game.

How?

An isometric view in Fallout does not give me impossing views of a ruined, 50's-style civilization. Not that the GameBryo engine was that good at it, but y'know. I can only imagine the possibilities with Bethesda's new engine that they're going to use for Skyrim. Oh baby.

I wouldn't say that I'm hung up in nostalgia

So what is it then? Do explain, I'm curious.

So I guess, what I'm saying is that while I have absolutely no problem with 3d, I think isometric mode works better in some games and that I don't really see the point of completely destroying it, when there are alot of systems and talented studios that could still make up awesome games using it.

Mind you, I never said it should be completely destroyed. It's dead-easy to lock your camara into an isometric view, so why not do that? Why is that not good enough and should the ability to do anything you want with the camara, including isometric, be scrapped entirely for the whims of a few?

And again, what does it have to offer? Why isometric over third-person, especially when third-person can include isometric.

As for budget, I doubt Fallout has to worry about that. Still not seeing what it has to do with a gameplay choice either. Nowadays, it's just a camara viewpoint, that's all. And a very limited one too.

First and second question: I think that games that are specifically made for 1st should be kept in first person, since blending multiple camera angles rarely works. The third person mode in Fallout 3, NV and Oblivion were all just very bad, in my opinion at least. Same goes with the Hitman games and their 1st person modes. This is again, however strictly a matter of opinion, like pretty much everything we are talking about in this conversation. Why I think Isometric can create a different experience to attaching the camera to the characters face or by his shoulder, is that I feel it's a completely different camera-style. I think controlling multiple characters in this mode is easier. Seeing behind corners, covers etc. creates the feeling of a strategy game. This is why I think 3d isn't the natural afterlife for isometric. I find isometric viewpoints to be a highly strategical way of looking at things. This is why I think it works for strategy games and for click-n-go RPG's. And I never said anything about restricting the isometric angle neither. I just said that more games should consider this as a valid camera-angle for tactical combat. A game that's designed to play from first or 3rd person probably wont have a well designed isometric view. I am talking about games that would be designed to be played on isometric. DA:O being on of them, at least in my opinion, since I can't obviously know what the designers were thinking. I think a big part of the aesthetics of Jagged Alliance was the camera. I wouldn't recognize a JA-game where it would be played in first person. Same with Planescape: Torment and Baldurs Gate.

3rd question: When I was a kid I played more 2d games than I did isometric. I guess I just don't like genre-changing. Maybe I have a soft-spot for isometric view. Can't I like a viewpoint even if I wasn't into it as a kid? I personally think the style has charm of sorts. I don't really like when people automatically say 'it's the nostalgia' when a person likes something outdated or old. I have things I look through nostalgia-goggles, but I wouldn't say this camera-angle is one of them.

4th question: Like I mentioned above, when multiple camera-angles are done in one game, the possibility of the developers thinking and making only one of them work properly is very high. I personally never played through Oblivion, F3 or F:NV in 3rd person or in isometric view, mainly because it didn't really work that well. I think the industry has enough space for both the isometric view and the 3d worlds.

I am not strictly talking about fallout. I am just saddened to see isometric strategy and RPG-games disappear. Budget-wise alot of smaller companies and indie-developers could find alot of use out of using isometric view. With that said: I appreciated this conversation. I always like hearing the viewpoints (pun not intented) of other people. It is rare to have internet conversations that don't overflow into mindless trolling. This has been an interesting experience and very fun, but do feel free to continue giving me your points, if you feel like you have more of them to give. I would be more than happy to hear them. Conversation Appreciated Highly. ^_^

 

[AlternatePFG]

from what I have seen it breaks continuity (I think I saw a intro vid once where a GAS POWERED CAR drove through the wasteland this is impossible since they ran out of oil or it became very expensive)

Yeah, you're right. The car you can get in Fallout 2 runs off of microfusion cells or small energy cells, if I remember correctly.