Anonymous Strikes Back, Hacks "Internet Security" Firm

[Twilight_guy]

Isn't that a bit like hitting a rabid dog with a stick because it pissed on your shoes. Yeah you feel better because you taught it a lesson but the conversation is not over yet.

How does a group where people are inherently unknown create leaders or organization? Group mentality needs some sort of direction but no firm lead, I guess, but doesn't that make it easy to sway?

 

[Starke]

Ancient history lesson here kids, really the only force that can deal with a group of hackers is another group of hackers.

Except, what we're already seeing in this case is a bit different from the crackdowns of old. These aren't hackers, they're script kiddies, and their lack of technical proficiency is already starting to catch up with them.

 

[EHKOS]

...You know what would really show Anon? Shut down their favorite site. Not that hard.

 

[Starke]

Isn't that a bit like hitting a rabid dog with a stick because it pissed on your shoes. Yeah you feel better because you taught it a lesson but the conversation is not over yet.

How does a group where people are inherently unknown create leaders or organization? Group mentality needs some sort of direction but no firm lead, I guess, but doesn't that make it easy to sway?

It doesn't, and then it goes on to claim that because it doesn't have a leadership it can't be treated as an organization. So this is a bit like claiming that the stick you just hit the dog with was a feather. The dog doesn't give a shit what you call it, only what it does, and... oh god, it just ate your spleen.

EDIT: but in fairness to you, that's exactly what seems to have happened here. Someone in anon just hung the mantel of this hacking attack around the necks of everyone associated with the group, even the ones who are terrified that they're about to be ripped into little bite sized chunks by the FBI.

 

[STE3L]

As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

* Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
- Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri

the American government is fighting a uphill battle on this one... as the whole idea of Anonymous is that there are no personal details, there are no names or faces, no records or bank accounts. the point is to create a current to pull the general population. Ddos all the way to full server takeovers... you can not stop it. to take a line form C&C: Generals "there is always a way in", now Wether it means going to the server and smashing it to bits or by swarming it with simultaneous hacks... you can't stop a river just by telling it to. I myself do not condemn them or there recent/past and hopefully future actions, as long as they do not drop innocent names about. let wikileaks live, for if you dream yourself my master... I will up 'n arms.

 

[phoenix352]

after which i can get all my stuff back by sending them an angry letter with my ancient text machine and if all else fails sue them for taking my stuff for no reason since they don't have any evidence.

BEWARE MY ANCIENT TEXT MACHINE!!! IT HAS POWERS BEYOND THOSE OF MERE MORTALS! MUWHAHAHAHA!

Okay, the two words of the day are "typewriter" and "search warrant". Look 'em up. Also remember the government decides what is and isn't "real evidence", not you.

and still sacrifices are made all the time , the government and the FBI dont care if some civilians get hit if they get what they want ... and that is more money and power.
even if anonymous isnt going to be the force that brings neutrality back to the web they will surely put up a nice fiasco to turn both of these entities down a notch.

Nah. The government is like any other animal, if you scare it, it will either roll over and die or eat your face. Obviously, in this case the government has decided it has a case of the munchies.

if you keep up with some news the Egyptians recently rioted and if i remember correctly took down their lovely oppressor who denied them freedom of speech and had those nice kidnappings going on and all that great stuff , enough people get behind anonymous's side goal of net neutrality and the government wont have a say in the matter.

Well, your trawling of the news was somewhat incomplete, because of two pesky little details. First Mubarak is still in office. The people of Egypt haven't forced shit, yet.

Second, Anon got people on the ground tortured and killed. Pissing off Mubarak meant MORE people were detained, because the Egyptian government WAS looking for info on Anon. Now this didn't come to much except to say that Anon made the situation worse, not better. They didn't take Mubarak down a peg, they did get him to kill people for them. So, now anonymous is championing the cause of killing bloggers in the name of net neutrality... right.

lets see how the situation develops.
iam hopping the FBI is going to give a statement on how these "terrorists" are going to be taken down with some bbig investigation like they always do.

Yeah... this isn't a TV show, this is the real world. No, not that show on MTV. In this world: the FBI announces they've made arrests or executed warrants, which, oh, wait, they have.

granted i didn't really remember all the details on the rioting but fact still stand that
they are rioting. people will get hurt nothing you can do about it but this is still a start.
as the situation unfolds the people will have a new person in command as i doubt hes going to continue the dictatorship when people are calling for his head.

 

[nightwolf667]

Isn't that a bit like hitting a rabid dog with a stick because it pissed on your shoes. Yeah you feel better because you taught it a lesson but the conversation is not over yet.

How does a group where people are inherently unknown create leaders or organization? Group mentality needs some sort of direction but no firm lead, I guess, but doesn't that make it easy to sway?

That's really what's going to get them in trouble from a legal standpoint. Anonymous and their defenders will proudly proclaim that they are not any sort of organized force or movement. Well, that's great. But under the law they will most likely be charged as one, possibly even under RICO which was designed to deal with organized criminal groups like the mafia. They're already wracking up the qualifications, but since there's no organized "leader" every action one of the members takes will reflect back on ALL those who have participated, even if it was just one DDoS attack.

Worse, they have a habit of standing up and admitting in writing, on the internet, which can be used against them in court, saying "LOOKIE HERE! WE DID THIS! AREN'T WE CLEVER!" Not realizing that they have made Pirate Bay an accessory in their file sharing crime, that they can now be nailed for 66,000 counts of file sharing/copyright infringement, on top of everything else. Which could wind up landing Pirate Bay in a lot more trouble than they're already in. The five anons who were arrested in Britain? They put out an open letter stating explicitly that they want the release of their fellows, this letter will be used in court against those five to prove their guilt. They didn't succeed at anything except getting these five men nailed to the wall.

Oops.

 

[teknoarcanist]

"How do we fight a decentralized enemy?"

"Attack the center!"

"Brilliant!"

 

[Starke]

granted i didn't really remember all the details on the rioting but fact still stand that
they are rioting. people will get hurt nothing you can do about it but this is still a start.
as the situation unfolds the people will have a new person in command as i doubt hes going to continue the dictatorship when people are calling for his head.

Yeah, people are protesting (not rioting (ATM)). The situation is fucked up. Their leader has been in power for 30 years while ostensibly being a democratic figure. The government is genuinely corrupt. And the people were dealing with this, internally. They were voicing their grievances, and risking their lives for something they believed in.

In wanders Anonymous: CHAMPIONS OF TEH INTORNETS(tm), who proceed to make the situation worse by "showing their support" through pissing off the leader and provoking an ADDITIONAL crackdown. This second round resulted in more deaths because Anonymous had decided to weigh in on something that was, quite frankly none of their goddamn business. They're provoking countries all over the goddamn place for no fucking reason. This isn't going to make a point, this isn't going to change people's minds, this is going to get people killed.

Also, Chaney just said "Mubarak is a friend and ally of the US", so at least it's good to know we don't (and haven't) support(ed) dictatorships... or somethin'

 

[Starke]

"How do we fight a decentralized enemy?"

"Attack the center!"

"Brilliant!"

"I say, pull out and nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure."

 

[Twilight_guy]

Isn't that a bit like hitting a rabid dog with a stick because it pissed on your shoes. Yeah you feel better because you taught it a lesson but the conversation is not over yet.

How does a group where people are inherently unknown create leaders or organization? Group mentality needs some sort of direction but no firm lead, I guess, but doesn't that make it easy to sway?

That's really what's going to get them in trouble from a legal standpoint. Anonymous and their defenders will proudly proclaim that they are not any sort of organized force or movement. Well, that's great. But under the law they will most likely be charged as one, possibly even under RICO which was designed to deal with organized criminal groups like the mafia. They're already wracking up the qualifications, but since there's no organized "leader" every action one of the members takes will reflect back on ALL those who have participated, even if it was just one DDoS attack.

Worse, they have a habit of standing up and admitting in writing, on the internet, which can be used against them in court, saying "LOOKIE HERE! WE DID THIS! AREN'T WE CLEVER!" Not realizing that they have made Pirate Bay an accessory in their file sharing crime, that they can now be nailed for 66,000 counts of file sharing/copyright infringement, on top of everything else. Which could wind up landing Pirate Bay in a lot more trouble than they're already in. The five anons who were arrested in Britain? They put out an open letter stating explicitly that they want the release of their fellows, this letter will be used in court against those five to prove their guilt. They didn't succeed at anything except getting these five men nailed to the wall.

Oops.

If you think about it, the best thing for official groups to do is to get any information about fellow members that they can out of people they arrest. If they follow leads this way it will become dangerous to trust fellow members of anonymous because (obviously) a person doesn't know who other members are and giving those members anything might come back to haunt them. It will become dangerous to act collectively and members will have to isolate themselves, thus segmenting and weakening the structure of the whole. The way to break the group with no leaders is to break the inherent cooperation and trust. When the group cannot organize it loses legitimate force even if individuals may still pursuing hacking and such.

 

[Ellen of Kitten]

When this originally began with Gene Simons, I said, "this is gonna be huge." Others said fun. Others made popcorn. Yaknow what? We were all right. And whomever made popcorn needs to share.

 

[Starke]

the American government is fighting a uphill battle on this one... as the whole idea of Anonymous is that there are no personal details, there are no names or faces, no records or bank accounts. the point is to create a current to pull the general population. Ddos all the way to full server takeovers... you can not stop it. to take a line form C&C: Generals "there is always a way in", now Wether it means going to the server and smashing it to bits or by swarming it with simultaneous hacks... you can't stop a river just by telling it to. I myself do not condemn them or there recent/past and hopefully future actions, as long as they do not drop innocent names about. let wikileaks live, for if you dream yourself my master... I will up 'n arms.

Very noble, and very incorrect.

There are bank accounts, not of the organization, but of the members, there are email accounts, there were accounts on the IRC server, data from which, that is now sitting in a federal evidence locker. There is information, there is lots of it, and what Anonymous claims will set it free is in fact the very thing that will damn it irrevocably. The freedom of information they champion will come back and bite them as it's used against them in a court of law. The countries they sought to "enlighten" will stomp on information harder than before. No one will learn anything, their crusade will make things far worse for everyone, and people will destroy their own lives in the process with no benefit to anyone.

So, as I said, very noble of you, but sadly very misguided as well.

 

[Danish rage]

Eventually the world will burn. Think anon is a problem? Just wait,them leaking stuff and acting like this is only the beginning and they are by far the least worst problem we have.

Old power and inheritance are our worst enemy.

 

[Corkydog]

the American government is fighting a uphill battle on this one... as the whole idea of Anonymous is that there are no personal details, there are no names or faces, no records or bank accounts. the point is to create a current to pull the general population. Ddos all the way to full server takeovers... you can not stop it. to take a line form C&C: Generals "there is always a way in", now Wether it means going to the server and smashing it to bits or by swarming it with simultaneous hacks... you can't stop a river just by telling it to. I myself do not condemn them or there recent/past and hopefully future actions, as long as they do not drop innocent names about. let wikileaks live, for if you dream yourself my master... I will up 'n arms.

Very noble, and very incorrect.

There are bank accounts, not of the organization, but of the members, there are email accounts, there were accounts on the IRC server, data from which, that is now sitting in a federal evidence locker. There is information, there is lots of it, and what Anonymous claims will set it free is in fact the very thing that will damn it irrevocably. The freedom of information they champion will come back and bite them as it's used against them in a court of law. The countries they sought to "enlighten" will stomp on information harder than before. No one will learn anything, their crusade will make things far worse for everyone, and people will destroy their own lives in the process with no benefit to anyone.

So, as I said, very noble of you, but sadly very misguided as well.

Not that I disagree with you entirely, but in the US, hell will raise if the government tries to regulate or police the internet. When the common man is affected adversely, they tend to complain, and if enough people complain, it becomes more of a headache to try and fight anonymous.

And really, the government at the moment couldn't give a shit what these guys are doing. Pranks, no matter how illegal, are hardly the concern of big scary secret goverment agencies.

 

[nightwolf667]

If you think about it, the best thing for official groups to do is to get any information about fellow members that they can out of people they arrest. If they follow leads this way it will become dangerous to trust fellow members of anonymous because (obviously) a person doesn't know who other members are and giving those members anything might come back to haunt them. It will become dangerous to act collectively and members will have to isolate themselves, thus segmenting and weakening the structure of the whole. The way to break the group with no leaders is to break the inherent cooperation and trust. When the group cannot organize it loses legitimate force even if individuals may still pursuing hacking and such.

They're going to do exactly that. Even better, they don't necessarily need to break the anons in the box. They will anyway, but they also have their computers, their phones, basically all their electronic equipment that has been searched and seized. Information came out only a few days ago that the FBI had seized the electronics of one of the IRC Admins of one of the Operation Payback servers. In Zhiwei "Jack" Chen's own words:

?FBI had a warrant to take all my electronics. They came in the dorm room bustin in @7:00, and pushed everyone out of bed. They searched the place and questioned all people involved. I was a passive admin for Operation Payback and quit early to avoid complications with the law, but it seems the FBI has gotten the better of me,? You can read the whole story here [https://www.infosecisland.com/blogview/11586-FBI-Acts-on-Another-Anonymous-DDoS-Search-Warrant.html]

They now have access to all his accounts, all his passwords, and will use this to further their investigation. Not to mention all the penalties that are getting wracked up, if Anonymous gets charged as a group then that Statue of Limitations on their crimes hasn't even begun to expire. Would you want to risk the same kind of internet vigilantism knowing that you could be charged around $35,000 (a loose culmination of the monetary fine of all the DDoS attacks Anonymous has committed recently) and are facing a maximum of ten years in prison (if they don't charge each of those attacks separately). Not to mention a myriad of other fines and stacked jail time from the other crimes they've been committing? (Obstruction of Justice, Identity Theft (posting someones Soc number is illegal), bank fraud, etc) Not to mention being denied your chances at higher education and a decent paying job. Even for minors, they could get strapped with this on their permanent file. No college is really going to want them then. Being a "freedom fighter" sounds really appealing when there are no consequences to be faced with. But not so good when faced with the realities.

 

[Kinguendo]

Dont this people have anything better to do? If they used all that time and energy on legal things they could make lots of money.

wow anonymous really needs to be taken out there too dangerous and too good at what they do

Agreed. 'Anonymous' are really just criminals who use ID theft to fund their crimes. Calling themselves 'heroes' is insulting to anybody who works for a living.

They are trying to keep the internet a place of freedom... I dont agree with other things that anonymous do but I like that they are doing this. Especially as its becoming more and more obvious how much our governments want to control the internet, they have already tapped phones, thrown people in jail for no reason and started illegal wars... isnt it time to make a stand?

 

[That_Swedish_Guy]

This is just so hilarious to watch go on...

Oh anonymous you gelatinous blob of hilarity.

Gelatious blob? I have now found a new descriptive term.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Lol, the biggest mistake the government could make in trying to take down anonymous is label it as a single, coherent, organization.

It worked out well when they tried it on al qaeda

I wonder, what would happen if the U.S government were to declare war on Anonymous? The Big Buisness that pretty much own the American government have made their declaration, I wonder if the government will make an offical one?

 

[nightwolf667]

the American government is fighting a uphill battle on this one... as the whole idea of Anonymous is that there are no personal details, there are no names or faces, no records or bank accounts. the point is to create a current to pull the general population. Ddos all the way to full server takeovers... you can not stop it. to take a line form C&C: Generals "there is always a way in", now Wether it means going to the server and smashing it to bits or by swarming it with simultaneous hacks... you can't stop a river just by telling it to. I myself do not condemn them or there recent/past and hopefully future actions, as long as they do not drop innocent names about. let wikileaks live, for if you dream yourself my master... I will up 'n arms.

Very noble, and very incorrect.

There are bank accounts, not of the organization, but of the members, there are email accounts, there were accounts on the IRC server, data from which, that is now sitting in a federal evidence locker. There is information, there is lots of it, and what Anonymous claims will set it free is in fact the very thing that will damn it irrevocably. The freedom of information they champion will come back and bite them as it's used against them in a court of law. The countries they sought to "enlighten" will stomp on information harder than before. No one will learn anything, their crusade will make things far worse for everyone, and people will destroy their own lives in the process with no benefit to anyone.

So, as I said, very noble of you, but sadly very misguided as well.

Not that I disagree with you entirely, but in the US, hell will raise if the government tries to regulate or police the internet. When the common man is affected adversely, they tend to complain, and if enough people complain, it becomes more of a headache to try and fight anonymous.

And really, the government at the moment couldn't give a shit what these guys are doing. Pranks, no matter how illegal, are hardly the concern of big scary secret goverment agencies.

But it's not a secret government agency. It's the FBI. They're big and scary but not very secret.