Aversion to Children

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

OP

I don't like the busywork side, the "burden" of parenthood neither.

But if my parents didn't went through it, I wouldn't be here, so I feel it's my duty toward society to do my part and raise children with love despite of how resources-intensive they are.

As a matter of fact, by upscaling this concept I became convinced that if you have the possibilities, raising children is everyone's *moral duty* - as logic dictates that if a sizable percentage of any society refuses to do so simply on grounds of convenience, this will lead that society to eventually become demographically cannibalized.

 

[Eamar]

As a matter of fact, by upscaling this concept I became convinced that if you have the possibilities, raising children is everyone's *moral duty*

Because there's no way that people having and raising unwanted children out of a sense of duty could possibly backfire for society, right?

logic dictates that if a sizable percentage of any society refuses to do so...

By my definition of "sizeable", this already happens: around 20% of people never have children, many of them by choice. Doesn't seem to be the end of the world.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

Because there's no way that people having and raising unwanted children out of a sense of duty could possibly backfire for society, right?

Not if this duty is also paired with the understanding that they need our love, and the willingness to provide it. Some parents find themselves unable to feel attachment to their newborn, but that eventually develops over time anyway. A positive attitude (while still preparing for the worst!) is a good starting point.

By my definition of "sizeable", this already happens: around 20% of people never have children, many of them by choice. Doesn't seem to be the end of the world.

That depends on the demographics of the country they live in - here in Europe we are below the quota required to sustain our own population, and are quickly becoming demographically irrelevant _also_ because of that 20% that slacks off.

 

[AnthrSolidSnake]

It's probably because I'm only in my early 20's, but people think it's weird that I say I don't want children in the future. I don't want marriage either. TO ME, in a perfect world, marriage seems useless. I understand people want to cement their bond, but I have a phobia of being tied down in my life. I'm perfectly comfortable dating for a long period of time, because I know that I can back out if I needed to without legal issues.

But to prevent getting off topic any more, yeah, I don't hate children exactly, I just don't like the idea of having one myself, now or in the future. Every time I consider it, I remind myself of all the things I want to do, and that thought train leaves the station pretty fast. It's why I take contraception very seriously. One girlfriend got a freaking implant in her arm because we were both on the same page about pregnancy (the thing lasts 3 years too, and is just as, if not more effective than pills).

I don't mind other people's children so much, as long as they can behave. A little hyper activity is fine. Kids are kids. But I obviously don't appreciate them being unruly.

 

[Parasitic_Chick]

I'm pretty sure children (especially babies)are just creatures sent up from the deepest layer in hell to torment mankind.

 

[lacktheknack]

I think aversion to kids is pure biology.
As Conrad Lorenz figured out many years ago, rat colonies will stop breeding when their numbers are high. I'm sure those rats get an "aversion to children" too.

How does that even work?

Why are babies still incredibly common in countries like India, if that's how we work biologically? It seems to be the other way around, really.

 

[Zeren]

I think that maybe someday I would want kids, but at the same time I don't think I could deal with being a parent. I'll just have a dog for a while instead.

 

[Zack84]

Jesus Fucking Christ, the cynical cesspool that is this forum is pretty sad. A lot of you are making a bad name for gamers with this "children suck, I hate 'em" attitude. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to ever have kids. It's not selfish. It's a perfectly acceptable life choice. But this frothing hatred for them is either creepy or a merely a sign of significant immaturity. I wonder what the average age is of posters in this thread; it could explain some of these responses.

 

[Eamar]

Not if this duty is also paired with the understanding that they need our love, and the willingness to provide it.

Sure, but you can understand this stuff until the end of time without actually feeling the desire to have your own children (and let's not forget the physical and mental strains of pregnancy for some women too). I understand these things perfectly well, it doesn't mean I think I'd be a good parent. You can't force these things.

Some parents find themselves unable to feel attachment to their newborn, but that eventually develops over time anyway. A positive attitude (while still preparing for the worst!) is a good starting point.

Hilarious. What's your source for this, or is it (as I suspect) all theoretical? I for one was/am an unwanted child of parents who fully understood the needs of a child and were able to provide everything I could want/need physically. They tried the "positive attitude" thing, but believe me the fundamental lack of desire, that feeling that I messed up my mother's life, never went away and has caused all sorts of misery. I would never, ever advocate that anyone have a child they don't want in the hope that everything would eventually fall into place over time. Having lived that, that advice is not only irresponsible, it's downright wrong.

(I should point out that I'm well aware lots of people come to cherish their accidental babies, but that's no reason to guilt unwilling people into becoming parents.)

That depends on the demographics of the country they live in - here in Europe we are below the quota required to sustain our own population, and are quickly becoming demographically irrelevant _also_ because of that 20% that slacks off.

I love that you're describing infertility, phobia of pregnancy/childbirth, risk of injury or death to some women, not wanting to pass on medical conditions, unwillingness to bring a child into an unstable or unsuitable environment, and unwillingness to raise a child that's anything other than 100% wanted as "slacking off." Real black and white thinking there. Still, must be nice up there on your pedestal.

 

[Emanuele Ciriachi]

Hilarious. What's your source for this, or is it (as I suspect) all theoretical? I for one was/am an unwanted child of parents who fully understood the needs of a child and were able to provide everything I could want/need physically. They tried the "positive attitude" thing, but believe me the fundamental lack of desire, that feeling that I messed up my mother's life, never went away and has caused all sorts of misery. I would never, ever advocate that anyone have a child they don't want in the hope that everything would eventually fall into place over time. Having lived that, that advice is not only irresponsible, it's downright wrong.

(I should point out that I'm well aware lots of people come to cherish their accidental babies, but that's no reason to guilt unwilling people into becoming parents.)

I'm sorry to hear that.
I guess there's no point in talking about the various factors that ended up conjuring such a situation; I hope that even having lived through this won't prevent you from considering to start your own family one day.

As for me, I'm a father myself; as an avid gamer who used to play late nights consistently during university as well as other "nerdy" activities (cosplay, LARPing, sport), I definitely miss my past abundance of spare time, but now that I have two kids I would never trade them back for my past life.
For several reasons - the first, of course, is that I can't But also that they are starting to "pay back" emotionally the "investment" of time and resources that it took so far.
There are also other factors: coming from a large, solid family; having the relatively uncommon philosophical resolve that procreation is a social duty (as stated above), and also in no small part being religious (I follow Roman Chatolicism).

It was also very refreshing to hear the story of a British photographer, Phillip Toledano, who described his difficult acceptance of fatherhood in his book "The Reluctant Father"; the photos on his website [http://thereluctantfather.com/] are fantastic, and I must say that the way he describes the initial feelings are similar to mine - with the significant difference that I was prepared for them, I knew that such feelings were a possibility and I was already resolved in ignoring them and give time for our mutual feelings to deepen.
It paid off. It's amazing how preparing for the worst, considering and pondering the realistic possibility of a negative scenario eventually bring you to cope with it much better if it materialises, and works even better when it doesn't.

I love that you're describing infertility, phobia of pregnancy/childbirth, risk of injury or death to some women, not wanting to pass on medical conditions, unwillingness to bring a child into an unstable or unsuitable environment, and unwillingness to raise a child that's anything other than 100% wanted as "slacking off." Real black and white thinking there. Still, must be nice up there on your pedestal.

I'm deeply sorry, I should have clarified - of course, the term "slacker" in this context should only apply to those that have the possibility to raise children, but prefer to use their resources for choices of leisure and lifestyle and are avoiding parenthood simply because of the associated cost.

 

[Eamar]

snip

I'm glad that you're happy being a father and I wish you and your family every success in future, but I still cannot support the idea that anyone who chooses not to have children is in any way "wrong", no matter what their reasons might be. I would argue that anyone who doesn't want children for time/financial reasons doesn't have the fundamental desire to be a parent and therefore probably wouldn't be good parents anyway.

As for me, I've already stated several times in this thread that there is absolutely no way I will ever be having kids, for all sorts of reasons. Read my posts if you want to see some of them, but my experience with my own parents actually only plays a very minor role and my first and main reason has always been a complete lack of desire to be mother. That probably means I'm "broken" on a basic level, but it doesn't bother me.

 

[HardkorSB]

But is it really so strange to just not like children or want anything to do with them?

It's not.
It might actually be a defense mechanism of sort.
Since the year 2000, the human population has moved from 6 billion to 7.2 billion.
1.2 billion in 14 years!!!!!!!!!
We are heading towards overpopulation at an alarming speed, we are polluting the environment more and more and things will only keep escalating if we won't stop (and we probably won't until it's too late).
I think it's very healthy for our species in the long run if some of us decide not to procreate.
If there was a way of enforcing this globally, I would make at least 1 year in every decade the year of not having children.

I myself sometimes feel the biological need to have offspring but I have these silly things called dreams and ambitions of becoming more than I am now and that would put a definitive end to any of those.
Maybe I'll become a sperm donor. That way I can have the satisfaction of passing my DNA to the next generation without having to raise the little fuckers myself

 

[Flames66]

Basically if you hurt or in anyway degrade a child because of your own selfish attitude towards them then you are a scumbag, simple as that.

I know all the evidence that shows you really shouldn't hit kids, but every time I'm stuck in a checkout line behind some dimwitted parent who is tryin really hard to negotiate with friggin Timmy the 5 year old to not throw the groceries all over the floor (or worse I'm the guy behind the checkout counter tryin to ring up the stupid SoB) I always have the same reaction. Will someone please smack that child so we can get on with our live and I can just pay for my damn candy bar.

I work in a similar place, and I love it when a child comes to my till. Children buying things by themselves are some of the most polite, considerate and helpful customers I ever have to deal with. I personally love children once they are old enough to be capable of communicating clearly. They have genuine passion and enthusiasm for things that interest them and, with a little guidance, can achieve things that adults do not have the will power or patience for anymore.

However, I despise children that cannot communicate yet. I am aware that this is not their fault, but I can't stand it. They don't understand what I am saying, cannot tell me what they want and should be kept away from anything their guardians are not willing to pay for.

And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.

Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.

Captcha: baby blues

 

[lacktheknack]

And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.

Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.

Because me and my sister have mental issues.

It's not "hitting close to home", it's being hit directly.

 

[Flames66]

And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.

Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.

Because me and my sister have mental issues.

It's not "hitting close to home", it's being hit directly.

Ok.

I would not want to care for a child with serious mental issues. I know people who do it, and it is slowly destroying them. I looked after my Grandmother with Alzheimer's for two years and hope to never have to do anything similar again.

To some extent I understand where you are coming from. I am Dyslexic and Dyspraxic and, now that I understand, greatly respect and am thankful for the effort my Mother went to in teaching me to overcome my difficulties. I don't know if I could do it myself and don't want to find out.

 

[JonnyHG]

Honestly, though, if you feel like you couldn't handle a crying baby I think that you have some personal growing to do. It doesn't really take much effort to love and nurture something. Especially when you know the payoff will be a new life form that can think for itself, act for itself, and achieve things all for itself and for others (eventually). Also, -usually- when you become a Dad or a Mom... you can split the responsibility of taking care of the child with your better half, so that you don't have to take the burden on alone.

I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to pay money for something, but that's petty.
I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to hear annoying sounds, but that's really not that bad.
I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to butt heads with a childs attitude, but that's the duty of a parent (and also not that difficult, within your lifetime you will likely correct many people you don't even care about -- how easy then would it be to correct and teach your own child right from wrong?)

I can see these things, but I reserve my right to think they seem selfish. You know what? Good for you. I'm sure its perfectly healthy to be selfish. You might be ... pretty lonely acting like that... you might also... appear to others like the children you loathe so much.

Haha, what? I have no idea if you're a parent. I'm certainly not a parent. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that you are one since you stated that loving and nurturing a child doesn't take much effort. It always takes effort, even for the best parents.

All of your "I can see why" reasons are extremely subjective. Having the foresight to worry about whether one can afford or wants to spend money on a child is petty?? Listening to annoying sounds children make isn't really that bad? Have you considered that for some people it really IS that bad? And yes, it's the duty of a parent to deal with a child's attitude. I'm sure most people would agree with that. Also, in my experience, it's much easier to correct people you don't care about than people you do.

Some people just don't want kids. Those people who actually have foresight and can clearly articulate reasons why having children is not right for them show a kind of maturity that is lacking among many parents I have seen today.

 

[LadyLightning]

I wholeheartedly believe that you should only conceive a child if you plan on eating it. The world has enough mistakes in it already. If you really want one, adopt someone else's instead of making a new one.

Please, please tell me you're joking. Or at least exaggerating for effect.

We actually had a thread recently about adoption: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.846666-I-hate-it-when-people-choose-to-have-kids-instead-of-adopt?page=1

I won't reiterate all of the points that thread made, but I will say this: Your premise seems to be that all children are mistakes.

......

............

Please tell me that you don't believe that all children are mistakes. After all, all the best figures in human history were once children. Who were created by breeding and pregnancy and all of that.

It is always a mistake to contribute further to overpopulation. Feed the children that already exist. Don't make more mouths until we as a species have more food.

 

[Treeinthewoods]

This thread is cute, bunches of teenagers and twenty something's hating on children because it's a total sign of maturity and edgy coolness.

I kid slightly, I actually think the aversion is kind of a basic way to prevent people without the emotional maturity to raise a child from having one. As people age a lot of them feel differently, some don't. I have college buddies who were vehemently against having kids who are now waiting on number three. I am planning on at least three more biological kids and continuing to foster as well.

Not having kids is fine, some of the active hatred of children is this thread would be troubling if it wasn't so darn cute. It's like a nine year old saying, "Ew, look at the big dumb baby who likes baby stuff, ew. I'm a big boy!" Lol.

 

[lunavixen]

Not if this duty is also paired with the understanding that they need our love, and the willingness to provide it. Some parents find themselves unable to feel attachment to their newborn, but that eventually develops over time anyway. A positive attitude (while still preparing for the worst!) is a good starting point.

That's actually a partial misnomer, some parents never develop an attachment to their children, that's how a fair few babies end up going through the adoption system, the parents didn't get attached and didn't want their children as a result, and I don't think it's fair to hinge keeping a child on a possibility, especially if the child is unwanted/unplanned in the first place. If that attachment does come in and the parent/s is/are willing to raise the child responsibly, so much the better.

 

[persephone]

I wholeheartedly believe that you should only conceive a child if you plan on eating it. The world has enough mistakes in it already. If you really want one, adopt someone else's instead of making a new one.

Please, please tell me you're joking. Or at least exaggerating for effect.

We actually had a thread recently about adoption: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.846666-I-hate-it-when-people-choose-to-have-kids-instead-of-adopt?page=1

I won't reiterate all of the points that thread made, but I will say this: Your premise seems to be that all children are mistakes.

......

............

Please tell me that you don't believe that all children are mistakes. After all, all the best figures in human history were once children. Who were created by breeding and pregnancy and all of that.

It is always a mistake to contribute further to overpopulation. Feed the children that already exist. Don't make more mouths until we as a species have more food.

I meant joking about the eating babies part. I really hope you weren't advocating cannibalism, much less cannibalizing babies.

The problem isn't overpopulation (the population projected to stabilize at nine billion in twenty years or so, I believe), nor a lack of food; we have more than enough food. The problem is economic infrastructure and disparity. If we could just teleport the food we have to the areas that need it, everyone would have enough to eat.