Aversion to Children

Flames66

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King Billi said:
Basically if you hurt or in anyway degrade a child because of your own selfish attitude towards them then you are a scumbag, simple as that.
shintakie10 said:
I know all the evidence that shows you really shouldn't hit kids, but every time I'm stuck in a checkout line behind some dimwitted parent who is tryin really hard to negotiate with friggin Timmy the 5 year old to not throw the groceries all over the floor (or worse I'm the guy behind the checkout counter tryin to ring up the stupid SoB) I always have the same reaction. Will someone please smack that child so we can get on with our live and I can just pay for my damn candy bar.
I work in a similar place, and I love it when a child comes to my till. Children buying things by themselves are some of the most polite, considerate and helpful customers I ever have to deal with. I personally love children once they are old enough to be capable of communicating clearly. They have genuine passion and enthusiasm for things that interest them and, with a little guidance, can achieve things that adults do not have the will power or patience for anymore.

However, I despise children that cannot communicate yet. I am aware that this is not their fault, but I can't stand it. They don't understand what I am saying, cannot tell me what they want and should be kept away from anything their guardians are not willing to pay for.

lacktheknack said:
And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.
Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.

Captcha: baby blues
 

lacktheknack

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Flames66 said:
lacktheknack said:
And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.
Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.
Because me and my sister have mental issues.

It's not "hitting close to home", it's being hit directly.
 

Flames66

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lacktheknack said:
Flames66 said:
lacktheknack said:
And... what if it comes out missing an eye? Or a leg? Or part of its brain?

Just the thought of caring for such a creature fills me with dread.

Words can't adequately convey how offended this statement makes me.
Why? It seems like a genuine fear. I took care of my elderly Grandparents for several years and I would not like to do the same with a disabled child who can't communicate.
Because me and my sister have mental issues.

It's not "hitting close to home", it's being hit directly.
Ok.

I would not want to care for a child with serious mental issues. I know people who do it, and it is slowly destroying them. I looked after my Grandmother with Alzheimer's for two years and hope to never have to do anything similar again.

To some extent I understand where you are coming from. I am Dyslexic and Dyspraxic and, now that I understand, greatly respect and am thankful for the effort my Mother went to in teaching me to overcome my difficulties. I don't know if I could do it myself and don't want to find out.
 

JonnyHG

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michael87cn said:
Honestly, though, if you feel like you couldn't handle a crying baby I think that you have some personal growing to do. It doesn't really take much effort to love and nurture something. Especially when you know the payoff will be a new life form that can think for itself, act for itself, and achieve things all for itself and for others (eventually). Also, -usually- when you become a Dad or a Mom... you can split the responsibility of taking care of the child with your better half, so that you don't have to take the burden on alone.

I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to pay money for something, but that's petty.
I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to hear annoying sounds, but that's really not that bad.
I can see why you would dislike the idea of having to butt heads with a childs attitude, but that's the duty of a parent (and also not that difficult, within your lifetime you will likely correct many people you don't even care about -- how easy then would it be to correct and teach your own child right from wrong?)

I can see these things, but I reserve my right to think they seem selfish. You know what? Good for you. I'm sure its perfectly healthy to be selfish. You might be ... pretty lonely acting like that... you might also... appear to others like the children you loathe so much.
Haha, what? I have no idea if you're a parent. I'm certainly not a parent. I do, however, find it difficult to believe that you are one since you stated that loving and nurturing a child doesn't take much effort. It always takes effort, even for the best parents.

All of your "I can see why" reasons are extremely subjective. Having the foresight to worry about whether one can afford or wants to spend money on a child is petty?? Listening to annoying sounds children make isn't really that bad? Have you considered that for some people it really IS that bad? And yes, it's the duty of a parent to deal with a child's attitude. I'm sure most people would agree with that. Also, in my experience, it's much easier to correct people you don't care about than people you do.

Some people just don't want kids. Those people who actually have foresight and can clearly articulate reasons why having children is not right for them show a kind of maturity that is lacking among many parents I have seen today.
 

LadyLightning

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persephone said:
LadyLightning said:
I wholeheartedly believe that you should only conceive a child if you plan on eating it. The world has enough mistakes in it already. If you really want one, adopt someone else's instead of making a new one.
Please, please tell me you're joking. Or at least exaggerating for effect.

We actually had a thread recently about adoption: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.846666-I-hate-it-when-people-choose-to-have-kids-instead-of-adopt?page=1

I won't reiterate all of the points that thread made, but I will say this: Your premise seems to be that all children are mistakes.

......

............

Please tell me that you don't believe that all children are mistakes. After all, all the best figures in human history were once children. Who were created by breeding and pregnancy and all of that.
It is always a mistake to contribute further to overpopulation. Feed the children that already exist. Don't make more mouths until we as a species have more food.
 

Treeinthewoods

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This thread is cute, bunches of teenagers and twenty something's hating on children because it's a total sign of maturity and edgy coolness.

I kid slightly, I actually think the aversion is kind of a basic way to prevent people without the emotional maturity to raise a child from having one. As people age a lot of them feel differently, some don't. I have college buddies who were vehemently against having kids who are now waiting on number three. I am planning on at least three more biological kids and continuing to foster as well.

Not having kids is fine, some of the active hatred of children is this thread would be troubling if it wasn't so darn cute. It's like a nine year old saying, "Ew, look at the big dumb baby who likes baby stuff, ew. I'm a big boy!" Lol.
 

lunavixen

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Emanuele Ciriachi said:
Not if this duty is also paired with the understanding that they need our love, and the willingness to provide it. Some parents find themselves unable to feel attachment to their newborn, but that eventually develops over time anyway. A positive attitude (while still preparing for the worst!) is a good starting point.
That's actually a partial misnomer, some parents never develop an attachment to their children, that's how a fair few babies end up going through the adoption system, the parents didn't get attached and didn't want their children as a result, and I don't think it's fair to hinge keeping a child on a possibility, especially if the child is unwanted/unplanned in the first place. If that attachment does come in and the parent/s is/are willing to raise the child responsibly, so much the better.
 

persephone

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LadyLightning said:
persephone said:
LadyLightning said:
I wholeheartedly believe that you should only conceive a child if you plan on eating it. The world has enough mistakes in it already. If you really want one, adopt someone else's instead of making a new one.
Please, please tell me you're joking. Or at least exaggerating for effect.

We actually had a thread recently about adoption: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.846666-I-hate-it-when-people-choose-to-have-kids-instead-of-adopt?page=1

I won't reiterate all of the points that thread made, but I will say this: Your premise seems to be that all children are mistakes.

......

............

Please tell me that you don't believe that all children are mistakes. After all, all the best figures in human history were once children. Who were created by breeding and pregnancy and all of that.
It is always a mistake to contribute further to overpopulation. Feed the children that already exist. Don't make more mouths until we as a species have more food.
I meant joking about the eating babies part. I really hope you weren't advocating cannibalism, much less cannibalizing babies.

The problem isn't overpopulation (the population projected to stabilize at nine billion in twenty years or so, I believe), nor a lack of food; we have more than enough food. The problem is economic infrastructure and disparity. If we could just teleport the food we have to the areas that need it, everyone would have enough to eat.
 

AgedGrunt

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Treeinthewoods said:
This thread is cute, bunches of teenagers and twenty something's hating on children because it's a total sign of maturity and edgy coolness.

I kid slightly, I actually think the aversion is kind of a basic way to prevent people without the emotional maturity to raise a child from having one. As people age a lot of them feel differently, some don't. I have college buddies who were vehemently against having kids who are now waiting on number three. I am planning on at least three more biological kids and continuing to foster as well.

Not having kids is fine, some of the active hatred of children is this thread would be troubling if it wasn't so darn cute. It's like a nine year old saying, "Ew, look at the big dumb baby who likes baby stuff, ew. I'm a big boy!" Lol.
I think it's more than maturity, Many people have been trained with contempt for certain things, such as the 1%, view them as sources of their problems. What we may be seeing is this type of irrational judgment translated to children or a spouse, that they're just more sources of greed and oppression that ruin lives and suck away money.

A good lesson of life is that at some level everyone is only looking out for themselves. Pretty sad how some people don't need to dig at all to find it, they actually seem proud to have no shame.
 

lacktheknack

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Zira said:
lacktheknack said:
Zira said:
I think aversion to kids is pure biology.
As Conrad Lorenz figured out many years ago, rat colonies will stop breeding when their numbers are high. I'm sure those rats get an "aversion to children" too.
How does that even work?

Why are babies still incredibly common in countries like India, if that's how we work biologically? It seems to be the other way around, really.

Because probably India as a higher mortality rate?
Even ignoring the fact that the mortality rates are lower than the birth rates nearly everywhere, let's just Google that anyways.

<link=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_mortality_rate#Countries>List of Countries That Had Higher Mortality Rates In 2013 Than India (7.39/1000):
Canada (8.20/1000)
United States (8.39/1000)
Luxembourg (8.52/1000)
Spain (8.94/1000)
France (8.96/1000)
Norway (9.21/1000)
Japan (9.27/1000)
United Kingdom (9.33/1000)
Sweden (10.22/1000)
Germany (11.17/1000)
Russia (13.97/1000)
The World Average (7.99/1000)

Your "Because Biology" guess is a total crock.
 

DrunkOnEstus

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May 11, 2012
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It's different when you've made it.

I never really minded kids, I was okay with them being near me on an airplane, and it kind of perturbed me that I had to stop waving back at them or responding to small talk from children because everyone is a pedophile and the parents will chew you out.

Despite that, I swore I would never have one. "I like being alone too much", "I don't want a huge responsibility cutting into my hobbies", "It's enough to watch my nieces/nephews and then hand them back". When it happened to me, there was a major shift in my outlook, overall thinking, and probably hormones or some shit. My wife did go through a lot of pain, yes, but it was a surreal kind of "okay" pain despite the intensity and duration. She got to feel a human being grow from a peanut into a real person, inside of her. I'm actually jealous of that, because despite how much attachment I have to my daughter I will never have that level of complete bonding that took place.

I'm still generally uncomfortable around other people's kids, but your own kid is awesome. You look into their eyes and they smile, and you see half of yourself and half of someone you love very dearly combined into one individual. I'm not saying it's easy, and for a lot of people it's an undertaking that they probably shouldn't consider until they absolutely know they want to. I don't even hear crying/screaming as an irritant anymore, I've adjusted to little powernaps to adjust for lost 8 hours, and if you have a loving partner you can work together so that each of you can have time to do the things alone that you enjoy doing.

I'm excited as hell to have her talk back, and to see how her personality develops. To watch her question, and develop her worldview with the help of my (probably fucked up) information. I know a lot of this is the same bullshit rhetoric you get from people who shove pictures of their kids in your face, but it's where I'm at in my life right now. I'm not sure there's a biological disposition to truly care for other people's kids that you see in public unless they're on fire or something, or you're someone who teaches/works with kids because it's your calling.

And honestly, I won't judge anyone who cannot ever fathom the idea of ever having kids. It's not for you, cool. It's a shitload of work and responsibility and sacrifice for the many intangible rewards it gives you. There's a whole lot of people on this planet, so if people hate kids, are asexual, or homosexual, thank you for (inadvertently) stemming the tide of overgrowth. I just figured I would let people know that there's a love deep inside of yourself that you can only feel by having a child, it's not all negatives, and a lot of the negatives either quit feeling like negatives or are remembered as being "not so bad".

1 Sidenote (because this needs to be longer), immediately after Tali was born, my wife said "Never fucking again. It's not happening. If I say that I want to do this again, call me a liar because there's no fucking way I'm doing that again". 3 months later and she's already talking about the timing of giving her a sibling, saying that it "wasn't really that bad". I hear there's a hormone that actually makes the whole process seem not as bad in hindsight. Such is life, and being an animal on a floating and spinning rock.
 

Emanuele Ciriachi

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lunavixen said:
That's actually a partial misnomer, some parents never develop an attachment to their children, that's how a fair few babies end up going through the adoption system, the parents didn't get attached and didn't want their children as a result, and I don't think it's fair to hinge keeping a child on a possibility, especially if the child is unwanted/unplanned in the first place. If that attachment does come in and the parent/s is/are willing to raise the child responsibly, so much the better.
If what you say is true, that's a really sad thing.
Every case is different, and yet I can't but wonder how much of this is just the result of a negative attitude and/or poor planning... the world is truly full of tragedies, and what we read in the news just really skims the surface.

This aside, do you know what if any data exists about the percentage of such events? And how many of the children abandoned by their parents eventually find a new family? I would imagine is a function of their age at moment of... whatever is called.
 

Krustosaurus

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I've never really been comfortable around babies. Usually if someone hands me one there's just a few awkward seconds of staring then I hand it back. They're smelly and sticky and I'm just waiting for some horrible accident to occur, like not holding them correctly or accidentally dropping them and having their mum maul me.

Until recently I hadn't really spent much time around kids, but I've been working with them for about 6 months now and it's actually surprisingly been a lot of fun. Once I got by that awkward "WHAT DO THEY WANT FROM ME?!" stage it was fine. They're just mini people. They usually like to draw, colour stuff in and run around. Sometimes there's trouble, but that's usually because someone stole someone else's rubber or something along those lines.

I was really worried about working with kids, but I relaxed and just listened to what they had to say and I'm still alive so it's all good. Plus, you can end up with some pretty funny stories to tell.
Still not fond of babies though.
 

DkLnBr

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Paragon Fury said:
I don't like crying, screaming infants. Or the messes they make. Or the sleeplessness they cause. Or how they look. Or how their default setting is "annoy" for the first part of their existence. Or how expensive they are. Or how much time they require. Or how useless they are personally to me, or anyone else for that matter. Or really anything about them in general.
I have to agree with you, as terrible as people think I am for it, I'm not much of a fan of children, especially toddlers (to the people who will reply, I don't specifically mean your kid, I'm sure they're wonderful). They're just annoying, sticky, smelly, obnoxious, dirty and often times noisy. Could be that I'm a crotchety old man on the inside, but I don't really find the things they say or do to be cute or funny

Paragon Fury said:
"Oh, how can you not like children? You were a child once you know!"
I. Fucking. Hate. this argument.
What do people think with come as a result of this? Do they think I'm so arrogant and forgetful that I'd go "Oh really? I was? Well nothing I've ever been or done could ever be bad, so I guess kids are alright after all!"
I just always want to answer "Yes I was, but I got over my disability" just to shut them up
 

[REDACTED]

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Kids are wonderful, but exhausting. I definitely lack the emotional maturity to care for one full-time, but I imagine that'll change as I get older. Everything I've heard from actual parents, good and bad and horrible as those things can be, have made parenting look more like something I'll want to do once I'm ready to handle the responsibility. Still, it's impossible to predict how I'll feel once I'm actually at that point in my life.

LadyLightning said:
I can kind of see where you're coming from on this from a moral perspective (although the joke about conceiving kids to eat them was in seriously poor taste), but I think that you're approaching the problem of overpopulation in the wrong way. Overpopulation is a symptom of larger socioeconomic problems, not the root cause. It sucks in the countries where it's a problem, but no-one's going to get anywhere by trying to tackle it head on. Here, have some articles written by people who are smarter than me:

http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/blog/concern-overpopulation-red-herring-consumption-problem-sustainability

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/14/opinion/overpopulation-is-not-the-problem.html?_r=0

http://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2011/07/20/the_world_is_not_overpopulated_106247.html

Edit: Is it just me, or is it slightly ironic that the people who state that they don't like kids are being mocked because of their age?

Also, @DrunkOnEstus: just... hot damn. Every single post of yours has given me the impression that you are the best frickin' dad ever. I don't have anything else to add. Keep on being awesome.
 

FoxKitsune

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You know, this thread is actually genuinely upsetting to me- not just because of the aforementioned working with kids, but because....really guys?

I get someone not wanting to be a parent and would never judge anyone for living their life the way they want to- I even get that some people just plain don't like children, and that's fine too, but without naming names or going into specifics it's kind of sickening to see some of the attitudes on here regarding what are essentially the most vulnerable people in her society.

If you hate kids then fine, hate kids, but if you want to be respected as someone who doesn't want anything to do with them them you also need to respect those that do: it's a two way street. More to the point children are not annoying and obnoxious even if you have a distaste for them: they are young people who need guidance and nurturing to become well adjusted adults.

This is where I get off. I hopped into the thread to offer my 2 cents and because I was genuinely interested in hearing the escapists' forumites (usually) insightful and thought provoking discussion. Seriously, long time lurker rare poster and I'm normally impressed by the civility in most threads, even when topics are a bit controversial. I wasn't prepared for ths level of sheer hate coming from some people, though.
 

lunavixen

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Emanuele Ciriachi said:
If what you say is true, that's a really sad thing.
Every case is different, and yet I can't but wonder how much of this is just the result of a negative attitude and/or poor planning... the world is truly full of tragedies, and what we read in the news just really skims the surface.

This aside, do you know what if any data exists about the percentage of such events? And how many of the children abandoned by their parents eventually find a new family? I would imagine is a function of their age at moment of... whatever is called.
I'm afraid I don't have any data on the percentages anymore, they were on my last harddrive which got corrupted (it was seriously out of date anyway) and i'm not sure where to find it, a lot of this data is now kept privately by counsellors and hospitals who are bound by doctor-patient confidentiality.

What I can tell is that a negative attitude or poor planning would probably only be partial contributors at best, a side effect, not a cause. (But I'm no psychologist so take that sentence for what you will)
 

DarthSka

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There's nothing wrong with having an aversion to children. Like anything else, choosing to partake or not is a personal choice and it's honestly best that you know your feelings on it now rather than having a child and having your feelings confirmed that way. Kids aren't for everyone, simple as that.

On another note, the generalizations and hate expressed here are somewhat depressing. It seems that if you express hatred or just generalizations for most groups of people (race, gender, nationality, etc.), the usual responses here are that doing so is wrong. But apparently you can generalize and express hatred for babies and kids all you want. Classy.
 

Ghaleon640

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I'm kinda surprised at the people that do say its selfish. I don't think that its selfish in any negative form to not want kids. Its selfish in a good way. Self respect- you care about what YOU want. Its really, if anything, deciding how you want to spend your free time. Do you want to take care of a child, or do you want to take care of yourself.

Everyone answers this question in their own way, and there is no wrong answer. Its damaging if you decide to change your mind half way through, having a kid but then ignoring it. Deciding ahead of time 'I can't/do not want to' is a healthy answer.

I'm up in the air. Going to try and get my feet on the ground and my life in order before I make that type of decision.