BioShock Creator "Sad" Over ME3's Ending Scandal

[Sandytimeman]

everyone seems to forget you can not like art as well. Shit I hated Metallica's Saint Anger, refused to buy it. Metallica moved back towards their roots rock wise, and I was happy. I can not like something and not buy it because it isn't what I want XD

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

I call bull. I think this guy hasn't actually seen the endings, and is just backing Bioware in this because he thinks we're picking on Bioware or something.

Either that, or you can expect to ending of Bioshock Infinite to rip-off Dues Ex's ending as well.

 

[agiganticpanda]

This is just the point that everyone on the other side of the argument is missing.

It's gone beyond missing. It's become actively ignoring the elephant in the room.

 

[Eric Morales]

With all do respect to Ken Levine, he seems to falling into an all too common trap. Yes, artists have the right to create whatever they want, but that DOESN'T mean they are immune to criticism.

BioWare isn't obligated to rewrite the ending, but fans have voiced some reasonable complaints (as well as some not-too-reasonable complaints) and if the writers want to take that on board and make a new ending, I'd be game for it.

 

[WonderWillard]

Everyone who bitches about the ending just sounds like a broken record at this point. "Broken logic, "no closure," "here's link to x youtube video," "fix the ending"..... Sigh. I hope this dies out soon, doesn't completely ruin the game.

 

[samaugsch]

This coming from the guy behind Bioshock 2.

2k made Bioshock 2, not IrrationalGames.

 

[ThePurpleStuff]

I've never played any mass effect games, but reading they were intending to make an ending for EVERY possible outcome, for every choice you made, it sounds completely impossible. Not with EA breathing down their necks at least, so I'm not mad at them at all for how the games ended, a big budget mainstream game having so many endings can't be done in a short time. It was different in the old era where games didn't take much, like the Chrono Trigger ps1 port with extra unlocks and endings. Or even the ps2 Disgaea games, they had different endings, not sure about the other platforms like psp or ps3. They weren't huge games with so many environments, characters, all in 3D to render, etc. Whining at Bioware is just so childish or disrespectful if you think about the constraints they were under, I know, you don't enjoy the ending but sometimes things just have bad endings. I won't defend them for lying about it but you know what I mean, it was too much to ask from them in such a short time.

 

[Murmillos]

If a game is created with no promises, and has no expectations, then you can pull out the art card.

but when it's the third game of well followed series, then the game cannot be turned art at the last minute, expecially when major promises were made regarding to the game play that was not delivered on.

 

[Jumplion]

While I was among the detractors of the ending to Mass Effect 3, I can't in all good conscious demand that BioWare change the ending. We have every right to criticize, berate, analyze, accept, etc... the ending that BioWare gave us to the Mass Effect trilogy. I'm with everyone when they say that the ending made no sense, plot holes were torn open, and other stuff. But, at the same time, I can see what BioWare was trying to do with it, even if the ending was just written on a napkin with "SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE" written at the bottom. They created the game, it's their business how they want to end it.

To me, the only obligation that content creators have to their customers is to make a good product. Now, one can argue that the Mass Effect 3 ending did not make it a good product, and that's fair, but when one walks over the line between creator and audience, at what point does the consumer's opinion tread on artistic merit? That's why I can't stand Star Wars detractors who constantly whine and complain about everything that George Lucas does, then make petty excuses of how "Star Wars became ours, it evolved beyond itself! He's ruining the sanctity of our movie!" Yeah, cry me a river, George Lucas made the movie, he can do what he wants with it. He wants Greedo to shoot first, let him edit it so it is so.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Bah, I think most people aren't pissed because the ending is sad but because the ending is dumb.

The reveal in 2 was really dumb but forgivable because the collector base sequence itself was really good.

But the ME 3 end was just made no sense. The ending made Star Control 3 look good and that is really saying something.

I'm not bothering with spoiler tags because if you are reading this thread then you probably already know it.

Why couldn't god just blow up any synthetics that threaten organics, why are organics so special that they deserve to be preserved in the first place, why didn't god just spend the x millions of years making some kind of "inhibitor beam" that either prevents synthetics of a certain level of sophistication or prevents them from rebelling? Why did god need shepard to make the choice in the first place instead of just doing whatever the hell it wanted? Why didn't god just NOT LEAVE the mass relays there to be discovered? Since there is apparently no other FTL travel method and just leave organics isolated to their own systems?

If you watched the super long star wars episode 1-3 reviews you would see one problem was lucas was surrounded by yes men who were afraid to speak up. I bet the same thing happened at Bioware while all this was being created.

 

[TornadoADV]

Talk about "circling the wagons" within the industry! How dare the consumer think that they have some say in how the products are designed they spend their money on! How dare the consumer hold the developer to their constant promises about player choice influencing the ending!

 

[Callate]

"I think if those people got what they wanted and (BioWare) wrote their ending they would be very disappointed in the emotional feeling they got because ... they didn't really create it," Levine said.

"This whole thing is making me a little bit sad because I don't think anyone would get what they wanted if that happened."

As opposed to now, when everyone's doing the happy fun-times dance?

Congratulations, now there's overwrought sentiments on both sides of the issue.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

A: I, personally, WANT games to be art.
B: Pandering to the lowest common demoninator in a given situations (here a whiny buncha people with internet connections) is undignified
C: Someone said its 50,000 people who dislike the ending. My response: So what? Thats like 5% of the playerbase? Bioware could tell them to ****off and still be rich. Not to mention "lots of peopele say this so it must be true" is a horrible line of logic.

The people on the other side of this issue are not in the minority. If they were this movement would have been long over. That being said the 50,000 (closer to 60K) number from above is from a poll on bioware's website. The poll allows you to vote if you like the ending as well. the current vote breaks down as so:

Didn't like. 57,774 (91%)
Did like, but would like the plot hole with Normandy fixed. 3942 (6%)
Liked the ending as it was. 1329 (2%)

That is far from 5%. I will post the link below. If you would like to add your vote to the poll on the Did like side feel free. But know this idea that those who didn't like the ending are in the minority is horribly wrong.

http://social.bioware.com/633606/polls/

 

[Murmillos]

I've never played any mass effect games, but reading they were intending to make an ending for EVERY possible outcome, for every choice you made, it sounds completely impossible. Not with EA breathing down their necks at least, so I'm not mad at them at all for how the games ended, a big budget mainstream game having so many endings can't be done in a short time. It was different in the old era where games didn't take much, like the Chrono Trigger ps1 port with extra unlocks and endings. Or even the ps2 Disgaea games, they had different endings, not sure about the other platforms like psp or ps3. They weren't huge games with so many environments, characters, all in 3D to render, etc. Whining at Bioware is just so childish or disrespectful if you think about the constraints they were under, I know, you don't enjoy the ending but sometimes things just have bad endings. I won't defend them for lying about it but you know what I mean, it was too much to ask from them in such a short time.

We aren't mad because of some false premise that we thought we would be getting 16 different endings, we are mad because BioWare, indluding EA themselves and Executive Producer Casey Hudson made those very such promises, including the months just prior to release.

So yea. EAWare made a promise they knew they were not able to deliver on. Which may have not been so bad if the ending wasn't mishandled so poorly.

 

[Lord_Panzer]

They have the same right to not fix their ending as I do to not purchase another one of their games.

 

[irishda]

Criticism/critique and interpretation are as much a part of art as creation is, mr Barnett.

Criticism from peers.

 

[asacatman]

If you're emotionally invested in the game enough to get seriously angry about the ending, then you can't make rational decisions and critique anyway. Reviewers seemed fine with this ending, probably cause they aren't superfans.

If Bioware wants a certain ending, then they should go for that one.

 

[Yeager942]

As much as I hated the endings, I don't believe they should be changed. Did bioware mislead us? Yes. Are the ending incredibly disappointing? I believe so, but what's done is done. The emotions that run so high on that very first playthrough has been spent, and no tacked on dlc ending can bring it back. The damage has been done and while I admire what the Retake Movement is doing, I'm just trying to move on.

We got through Lost and BSG, we can get through this one.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

Well, they did. What happens to the krogan, quarian, geth, rachni, etc. all pretty much hinge on your decisions.

Not really.

made peace between the Turians and Krogan? Who cares, after the ending they'll

Spoiler

never see eachother again.

Save the council? Tell Conrad to go home to his wife? Stop a Quarian being harrassed? Help an Asari overcome her daughter's death? Stop a corrupt businesswoman abusing her staff?

None of it matters. Because in the end

Spoiler

Every living being on the citadel dies

 

[TK421]

The majority of people aren't mad about the "sad" or "downer" nature of the endings, god damnit. People are mad that they spent 100+ hours on a series, only for every single choice they made to be thrown out the window and not make a single damn difference in the end.

This, of course, is after we were told that our choices actually would matter.

That's why I'm mad. Mass Effect was supposed to be different from all of those "Moral Dilemma" games. Your choices were supposed to matter, were supposed to affect how things worked in the galaxy. And not just your last choice either. It was supposed to be that all of your choices would build up on each other to produce an appropriate ending.

Ken Levine and other videogame auteurs respect the finished product.

I don't mean to assault a horse -especially a dead one- but the product plainly wasn't complete. The "ending" wasn't really an ending at all.

I don't want video games to be considered art, I want them to be bloody entertaining.

No Doubt. All of the endings were crap (aforementioned choice problems aside) and I don't really care if a game is art or not. What I care about is if my $60 is going to entertain me more than if I had spent it elsewhere.