Bioware are getting really lazy as of late. (Possible Mass Effect 2 spoilers)

[LiquidGrape]

Holy shit, multipost. I have no idea how this happened. Sorry!

 

[Daedalus1942]

The fundamental story of Mass Effect is a real travesty. What people mistake for a brilliant plot is actually the inspired setting and decent writing.
Think about it. Giant sentient machines allow organic life to reach a predetermined level of technological and cultural sophistication, and then wipe them out for no other apparent reason than being the token bad guys.
- Motivation? Qui vadis?
Overall, Mass Effect 2 felt to me like a very constrained and streamlined experience, and not in a good sense.
I don't lament the reduced focus on character management, but the depth of the experience was diminished by the linear environments and laughable machinations which forced you to cooperate with Cerberus.

It felt as if Bioware wanted to make the universe more accessible; at the expense of those of us who nurtured the original experience.

Thank you. Just... thank you, really!
I pray that you procreate and have many beautiful sons or daughters. May your life be full of happiness and void of any grief.
I really stand by the opinion that they didn't get anyone who finished the first game to playtest Mass Effect II. I anticipated this game since the day I finished the first game. I even bought the books and avoided all reviews and threads to do with the game in order to neither heighten or lower my opinion of it, and I can honestly say at times... I was bored.
I was never bored in the first game, but ME2 just... I can't put my finger on it. It felt like an expansion or a pseudo-Mass Effect 1.

 

[Jandau]

I didn't ***** about the characters at all. I bitched about the lazy introductions of the characters from the first game (if you'd bothered to read) and the lame sidequests they made you complete for your previous crew members. I actually thought the new crewmembers were fleshed out quite well and that wasn't my ***** about it. My problem was the game was literally collecting your teammates and then thhe suicide mission.
There was no underlying plot this time just "Collect people to fight for you and then possibly die defending the whole galaxy."

What sidequests for previous crew members? Liara had that optional Hacking quest, but that was pretty much that.

And what do you mean there was no plot this time? It's like saying ME1 was just "Chase Saren around for a while"...

Once again.... read.
I said no UNDERLYING plot. In the first there were a few, with Saren, the Geth, and Cerberus's own machinations (not to mention the Alliance's motives).
In the second game there was literally none of that. NOTHING else besides collecting your party members, and going out to obliterate the Collectors. The closest they came to fleshing it out more was the inclusion of the "Heretic" Geth, and the other Geth being non-hostile towards shepherd.

I did read, and I still don't see your point.

Dark Energy, Quarians VS Geth, future of Krogan, Cerberus' long term goals, etc. etc. There were tons of plot threads and hooks. The fact that you choose to ignore them isn't the game's fault and not my problem.

Dark energy was mentioned in two fucking quests (now you're nitpicking). Also the Quarian Vs Geth is established in every single game (and book) and was part of a crewmember's sidequest. The future of Krogan was barely skimmed on apart from the creation and welcoming of Grunt into the Urdnot clan. I didn't ignore these things. They were nowhere near as big as some of the plots for sidequests in the first game.
The first game had better writing and the second game is just picking up your team members and killing the Collectors, end of story.

I'm not going to debate this any longer. If you didn't feel the plot was elaborate enough, that's your problem. I disagree with almost everything you wrote and am of the opinion that you are ignoring parts of the game while at the same time overstating and overestimating the first game. You didn't like it? Fine, good for you. I did. Good for me. See you around.

 

[Daedalus1942]

ME2 was a failed renaissance of gameplay elements. This is not new.

Thank you for providing absolutely no interesting discussion to my post whatsoever. I wasn't whingeing about them "dumbing" things down and completely changing the game (like other people)
My viewpoint (if you had bothered to read) was whether or not you think Bioware are just getting lazy of late, and just riding their success of an already successful IP).

Well done for noticing he was supporting your point of view...

Well done for flaming me for something as obvious as that post.
I know he was supporting my opinion, but he didn't give any valid examples as to why.
I've provided reasons for my disappointment in the game. He didn't supply anything worthy of discussion, but thank you, really. I appreciate you giving me further reason for my disdain towards the human race.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

ME2 was a failed renaissance of gameplay elements. This is not new.

Thank you for providing absolutely no interesting discussion to my post whatsoever. I wasn't whingeing about them "dumbing" things down and completely changing the game (like other people)
My viewpoint (if you had bothered to read) was whether or not you think Bioware are just getting lazy of late, and just riding their success of an already successful IP).

Well done for noticing he was supporting your point of view...

Well done for flaming me for something as obvious as that post.
I know he was supporting my opinion, but he didn't give any valid examples as to why.
I've provided reasons for my disappointment in the game. He didn't supply anything worthy of discussion, but thank you, really. I appreciate you giving me further reason for my disdain towards the human race.

Aha, flaming? Hardly.
So someone supports your post, yet you'll flame them because they didn't give a reason? Wow, no wonder you have such 'disdain for the human race'. They probably treat you like shit for being such an arsehole.
Just so you know, I won't be reading anything you post from here on out. I have no interest in talking to grown men who still try and give themself definition by saying they hate all other humans.

 

[Daedalus1942]

ME2 was a failed renaissance of gameplay elements. This is not new.

Thank you for providing absolutely no interesting discussion to my post whatsoever. I wasn't whingeing about them "dumbing" things down and completely changing the game (like other people)
My viewpoint (if you had bothered to read) was whether or not you think Bioware are just getting lazy of late, and just riding their success of an already successful IP).

Well done for noticing he was supporting your point of view...

Well done for flaming me for something as obvious as that post.
I know he was supporting my opinion, but he didn't give any valid examples as to why.
I've provided reasons for my disappointment in the game. He didn't supply anything worthy of discussion, but thank you, really. I appreciate you giving me further reason for my disdain towards the human race.

Aha, flaming? Hardly.
So someone supports your post, yet you'll flame them because they didn't give a reason? Wow, no wonder you have such 'disdain for the human race'. They probably treat you like shit for being such an arsehole.

Umm, I'm sorry, but I distinctly saw you call me a "dumbass" before you ever so politely edited it out, which is flaming, so I'm going to disregard anything you post to me from now on, because you're clearly not one to tell the truth.
P.S I have the quoted post in my inbox, so don't BS me and say you didn't flame me, because you clearly did.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

ME2 was a failed renaissance of gameplay elements. This is not new.

Thank you for providing absolutely no interesting discussion to my post whatsoever. I wasn't whingeing about them "dumbing" things down and completely changing the game (like other people)
My viewpoint (if you had bothered to read) was whether or not you think Bioware are just getting lazy of late, and just riding their success of an already successful IP).

Well done for noticing he was supporting your point of view...

Well done for flaming me for something as obvious as that post.
I know he was supporting my opinion, but he didn't give any valid examples as to why.
I've provided reasons for my disappointment in the game. He didn't supply anything worthy of discussion, but thank you, really. I appreciate you giving me further reason for my disdain towards the human race.

Aha, flaming? Hardly.
So someone supports your post, yet you'll flame them because they didn't give a reason? Wow, no wonder you have such 'disdain for the human race'. They probably treat you like shit for being such an arsehole.

Umm, I'm sorry, but I distinctly saw you call me a "dumbass" before you ever so politely edited it out, which is flaming, so I'm going to disregard anything you post to me from now on, because you're clearly not one to tell the truth.

I have to say this is a coincidental end to the discussion...

 

[Daedalus1942]

ME2 was a failed renaissance of gameplay elements. This is not new.

Thank you for providing absolutely no interesting discussion to my post whatsoever. I wasn't whingeing about them "dumbing" things down and completely changing the game (like other people)
My viewpoint (if you had bothered to read) was whether or not you think Bioware are just getting lazy of late, and just riding their success of an already successful IP).

Well done for noticing he was supporting your point of view...

Well done for flaming me for something as obvious as that post.
I know he was supporting my opinion, but he didn't give any valid examples as to why.
I've provided reasons for my disappointment in the game. He didn't supply anything worthy of discussion, but thank you, really. I appreciate you giving me further reason for my disdain towards the human race.

Aha, flaming? Hardly.
So someone supports your post, yet you'll flame them because they didn't give a reason? Wow, no wonder you have such 'disdain for the human race'. They probably treat you like shit for being such an arsehole.
Just so you know, I won't be reading anything you post from here on out. I have no interest in talking to grown men who still try and give themself definition by saying they hate all other humans.

Umm, I'm sorry, but I distinctly saw you call me a "dumbass" before you ever so politely edited it out, which is flaming, so I'm going to disregard anything you post to me from now on, because you're clearly not one to tell the truth.
P.S I have the quoted post in my inbox, so don't BS me and say you didn't flame me, because you clearly did.

 

[Daedalus1942]

Moderators, I'm bored of this thread now. I've gotten the general consensus that some people liked what they did to Mass Effect 2, and some didn't.
Feel free to lock or delete this thread now. I'm all discussioned out about ME2. I just want to pretty much forget anything to do with it and pray that ME3 is substantially superiour than 1 and 2.

 

[Doug]

The final choice also struck me as total bullshit, they really expect me to blow up all that Reaper tech when it could hold the key to resisting indoctrination, since it probably contains data on how Reapers work in the first place?! Are they kidding? Every important industrialized nation on Earth was trying to build a nuclear weapon during WWII, I wonder if ME 2's writer(s) have any clue why? (Hint it's not because they were evil.) There didn't seem to be this moral dilemma for the Turians when they carted off Sovereign's main gun and figured out how to make a miniature version of it, which you promptly bolt onto Normandy presumably because it kills things better.

The fact Shepard was focused on completing a potentially suicidal mission, was at the point of finalising the plan with the destruction of the enemy base, then is told to change the plan at the last possible moment, I think probably made it quite realistic to have doubts in Shepard's mind, especially if the player/Shepard did not trust the Illusive man with such tech.

Agreed. TIM would probably try and build his own Reaper - after all, if you want to make a weapon to use against the Reapers and you want to do it fast, you would have to use it the way it was intended to work. Buying hundreds of thousands of Batarian slave stock seemed like something they would be very willing to do.

 

[reg42]

I thought ME2 was more streamlined than "lazy". Everything they took out I was happy about ,except for the armour system. I really like getting some awesome armour, which looks completely different to the one I just had, and using it until I find something better. It's more fulfilling than switching between pieces of armour that may or may not be better or worse than another.

 

[Jandau]

I didn't ***** about the characters at all. I bitched about the lazy introductions of the characters from the first game (if you'd bothered to read) and the lame sidequests they made you complete for your previous crew members. I actually thought the new crewmembers were fleshed out quite well and that wasn't my ***** about it. My problem was the game was literally collecting your teammates and then thhe suicide mission.
There was no underlying plot this time just "Collect people to fight for you and then possibly die defending the whole galaxy."

What sidequests for previous crew members? Liara had that optional Hacking quest, but that was pretty much that.

And what do you mean there was no plot this time? It's like saying ME1 was just "Chase Saren around for a while"...

Once again.... read.
I said no UNDERLYING plot. In the first there were a few, with Saren, the Geth, and Cerberus's own machinations (not to mention the Alliance's motives).
In the second game there was literally none of that. NOTHING else besides collecting your party members, and going out to obliterate the Collectors. The closest they came to fleshing it out more was the inclusion of the "Heretic" Geth, and the other Geth being non-hostile towards shepherd.

I did read, and I still don't see your point.

Dark Energy, Quarians VS Geth, future of Krogan, Cerberus' long term goals, etc. etc. There were tons of plot threads and hooks. The fact that you choose to ignore them isn't the game's fault and not my problem.

Dark energy was mentioned in two fucking quests (now you're nitpicking). Also the Quarian Vs Geth is established in every single game (and book) and was part of a crewmember's sidequest. The future of Krogan was barely skimmed on apart from the creation and welcoming of Grunt into the Urdnot clan. I didn't ignore these things. They were nowhere near as big as some of the plots for sidequests in the first game.
The first game had better writing and the second game is just picking up your team members and killing the Collectors, end of story.

I'm not going to debate this any longer. If you didn't feel the plot was elaborate enough, that's your problem. I disagree with almost everything you wrote and am of the opinion that you are ignoring parts of the game while at the same time overstating and overestimating the first game. You didn't like it? Fine, good for you. I did. Good for me. See you around.

And I think you liked it because you probably prefer first and third person shooters. I'm unhappy because for an IP that a few years ago was touted as the "greatest sci-fi RPG of our time" (or whatever they said) the sequel was excruciatingly less RPG like and more action-shooter based.

The irony here is that I detest first person shooters and am mildly tolerand of third person shooters. But if rationalizing my opinions in that way makes you feel better, go right ahead. Also, ME1 was a third person shooter as well, last time I checked.

 

[kogane]

I'm only a few hours in right now, but what is really bugging me already are the loading times. They are insane. Before I installed it on my Xbox is was something around 39 seconds for every loading screen. Now it's down to around 25 seconds, but they are still an immersion killer.

Instead of spending so much time on colorful and moving loading screen backgrounds they should have worked on the time.

 

[Doug]

I didn't ***** about the characters at all. I bitched about the lazy introductions of the characters from the first game (if you'd bothered to read) and the lame sidequests they made you complete for your previous crew members. I actually thought the new crewmembers were fleshed out quite well and that wasn't my ***** about it. My problem was the game was literally collecting your teammates and then thhe suicide mission.
There was no underlying plot this time just "Collect people to fight for you and then possibly die defending the whole galaxy."

What sidequests for previous crew members? Liara had that optional Hacking quest, but that was pretty much that.

And what do you mean there was no plot this time? It's like saying ME1 was just "Chase Saren around for a while"...

Once again.... read.
I said no UNDERLYING plot. In the first there were a few, with Saren, the Geth, and Cerberus's own machinations (not to mention the Alliance's motives).
In the second game there was literally none of that. NOTHING else besides collecting your party members, and going out to obliterate the Collectors. The closest they came to fleshing it out more was the inclusion of the "Heretic" Geth, and the other Geth being non-hostile towards shepherd.

I did read, and I still don't see your point.

Dark Energy, Quarians VS Geth, future of Krogan, Cerberus' long term goals, etc. etc. There were tons of plot threads and hooks. The fact that you choose to ignore them isn't the game's fault and not my problem.

Dark energy was mentioned in two fucking quests (now you're nitpicking). Also the Quarian Vs Geth is established in every single game (and book) and was part of a crewmember's sidequest. The future of Krogan was barely skimmed on apart from the creation and welcoming of Grunt into the Urdnot clan. I didn't ignore these things. They were nowhere near as big as some of the plots for sidequests in the first game.
The first game had better writing and the second game is just picking up your team members and killing the Collectors, end of story.

I'm not going to debate this any longer. If you didn't feel the plot was elaborate enough, that's your problem. I disagree with almost everything you wrote and am of the opinion that you are ignoring parts of the game while at the same time overstating and overestimating the first game. You didn't like it? Fine, good for you. I did. Good for me. See you around.

And I think you liked it because you probably prefer first and third person shooters. I'm unhappy because for an IP that a few years ago was touted as the "greatest sci-fi RPG of our time" (or whatever they said) the sequel was excruciatingly less RPG like and more action-shooter based.

The irony here is that I detest first person shooters and am mildly tolerand of third person shooters. But if rationalizing my opinions in that way makes you feel better, go right ahead. Also, ME1 was a third person shooter as well, last time I checked.

Indeed - though I call both games TPS/RPG hybrids because you actually do the important bits of RPG (hint: Inventory and stats don't have to be apart of role-playing, heh).

 

[Jandau]

Indeed - though I call both games TPS/RPG hybrids because you actually do the important bits of RPG (hint: Inventory and stats don't have to be apart of role-playing, heh).

The thing is, to many people Inventory and Stats ARE the defining factor for RPGs. They just can't process the game otherwise. That's why ME2 is confusing some people. It's lighter on the "spreadsheet" stuff, but retains the story and structure of an RPG. And we all know how much people dislike being taken out of their comfort zone...

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Agreed. TIM would probably try and build his own Reaper - after all, if you want to make a weapon to use against the Reapers and you want to do it fast, you would have to use it the way it was intended to work. Buying hundreds of thousands of Batarian slave stock seemed like something they would be very willing to do.

Why do I find him less Illusive when referred to as Tim haha

 

[Lonan]

You are indeed nitpicking, and to great extremes. It's different, get over it. It's not a typical RPG, get over it.

As for planet scanning, it was really convinient that everything of value on the planet was within about 4 square kilometres, wasn't it? It wasn't also convinient that you didn't have to go through the effort of finding anything of value on the planet from space. Now you actually have to go around it from orbit, as would actually be done, and find things from space. You're scanning an ENTIRE PLANET. Call it tedious, I call it an ENTIRE PLANET. The fact that you can scan the whole thing in a couple minutes is quite remarkable. I LOVED the Mako, but it's gone now, get over it.

Liara is not a *****, she's incredibly polite and deeply apoligetic that she isn't able to just get up from the head position she has as one of the most important people in the entire galaxy to go on a suicide mission, and you interpret that as being a cold-hearted *****? And she is not in anyway crazy, she has a desk job, that is in no way insane. If you're talking about her killing people, you seem to have forgotten that the Shadow Broker or someone killed one of her friends. For someone who is so against critical of the games plot, you aren't very aware of it. You probably just started frothing in the mouth once you were told to pick up a thermal clip and hated the rest of the game from there. Oh, and Liara actually recovered you're body and gave it to Cerberus to revive you. She was confronted by the Illusive Man and told that the Collectors had hired the Shadow Broker to give Shepard;'s body to them. Liara took it upon herself to find you're body before the Shadow Broker, arguably the most powerful influence in the galaxy, before the Collectors got it. She then apoligises for giving you to Cerberus, and reveals that she did it for selfish reasons, namely, she couldn't let go of you. Out of contempt for the Shadow Broker for being willing to give you to the collectors, she makes an entire organisation with the intention of bringing down the Shadow Broker once and for all. Everything she's done for the past 2 years have been for you, and you think she's a cold hearted ***** for it. YOU are a cold-hearted *****.

As for the Human Reaper, you obviously have no interest in the plot you complain about so much here either. It's not for asthetics, the Reapers are a mix of organic and inorganic (synthetic) matter. The fact that a movie called Terminator exists is you're entire reason for hating the Human Reaper. And you can call it Bioware's decision, but the reality is that the plot most heavily contributed to by a renowned science fiction author from St. Albert, Alberta. Were you pissed at J.K. Rowling for having a happy ending to Harry Potter? Was it to generic for you?

You're complaints have the depth of a drop of water in Saudi Arabia.

First of all, I haven't read the Retribution comic yet(but thank you for spoiling the plot), second of all I didn't think the Reaper made any sense. It's not explained why it was in a human form. Why did they build a giant "Human" reaper? would it affect humans more rapidly? Would they look upon this Giant and welcome it more readily because of a human face? It would have made more sense to me to have the Reaper look identical to Commander Shepherd (now THAT would have been the ultimate reaper). People would trust it more readily and it could easily indoctrinate everyone.
Also, thanks for calling me a cold hearted *****. I'm male, but regardless, you'll most likely get a warning for that (as I have gotten so many in the past).
P.S I can't stand Harry Potter, and the scanning took forever in Mass Effect 2. If i'd only had to spend a minute scanning it wouldn't have bothered me, but depleting every single planet took forever and i thought it would useful. I could have scanned like a tenth of what I did and had enough afford every single research item.

I would also like to add that I have not read the Retribution comic, and learned all of what I told you from the game itself by doing the quests to help Liara.

 

[Doug]

Agreed. TIM would probably try and build his own Reaper - after all, if you want to make a weapon to use against the Reapers and you want to do it fast, you would have to use it the way it was intended to work. Buying hundreds of thousands of Batarian slave stock seemed like something they would be very willing to do.

Why do I find him less Illusive when referred to as Tim haha

Because you like to make fun of his handicap? Just because he has wierd eyes too *sniffles*

 

[Lonan]

Moderators, I'm bored of this thread now. I've gotten the general consensus that some people liked what they did to Mass Effect 2, and some didn't.
Feel free to lock or delete this thread now. I'm all discussioned out about ME2. I just want to pretty much forget anything to do with it and pray that ME3 is substantially superiour than 1 and 2.

So you stuck you're dick out and didn't like what happened to it? And now want moderators to shut the thread down? How inspirational.
*edit* From what it looks like, you've had a fair bit of disagreement with others here.

 

[Doug]

Indeed - though I call both games TPS/RPG hybrids because you actually do the important bits of RPG (hint: Inventory and stats don't have to be apart of role-playing, heh).

The thing is, to many people Inventory and Stats ARE the defining factor for RPGs. They just can't process the game otherwise. That's why ME2 is confusing some people. It's lighter on the "spreadsheet" stuff, but retains the story and structure of an RPG. And we all know how much people dislike being taken out of their comfort zone...

Indeedie. And whilst I admit stats do prove a layer of abstraction between the player and the character, the player's skills still affect the game. After all, not everyone knows what spells work well together to produce effect X that ampifies damage on this particular boss type.

Of course, that type of combat is fun too, but its not the defining feature of an RPG to me.