Bioware are getting really lazy as of late. (Possible Mass Effect 2 spoilers)

[Daedalus1942]

Moderators, I'm bored of this thread now. I've gotten the general consensus that some people liked what they did to Mass Effect 2, and some didn't.
Feel free to lock or delete this thread now. I'm all discussioned out about ME2. I just want to pretty much forget anything to do with it and pray that ME3 is substantially superiour than 1 and 2.

So you stuck you're dick out and didn't like what happened to it? And now want moderators to shut the thread down? How inspirational.
*edit* From what it looks like, you've had a fair bit of disagreement with others here.

Umm... no I gleaned from it the information I was after. Now I'm just sick of talking about ME2. I was disappointed by it, and just want to forget the whole thing right now.
-edit- just as many people have agreed as have disagreed (if not more).
The ones that agree with me have just tended to post alot less substance than the ones who think I'm nitpicking.

 

[Azjenco]

!!MAJOR SPOILER ALERT!!
Wow, talk about being disappointed. I'm sorry you did not love the game as I did. I thought it was brilliant and it sucks that you found so much to hate about it.

First off, your gripes about the game are small. I watched a lot of development videos and get what some of the changes are about. I am glad the Mako went, it handled horribly, especially if you had to find all of those scattered minerals. The scanning is tedious though, and I think it will go with ME3. You cant blame them for experimenting.

Like some people have mentioned, the old inventory was cluttered and horrible to get through. What makes the new fewer weapons nice is that the 3 shotguns shoot differently, while in ME1 all shotguns worked the same, just better aim or damage.

Spelling I did not notice, because my game's written dialogue was turned off... Why would you want to read it when everything is spoken. If I want to read I'll fetch a book from my shelves. So, moaning that the text is spelled wrong when you could just be listening to it is really a minor problem.

Well, if you finish at 60, you start ME2 at level 5, which is alright. Besides, you are re-engineered, so that's probably why your powers work differently. A lot has changed in 2 years.

Bioware changed a lot of things to make the game faster. Combat action faster, and smoother, which is something you cant blame them for. While the story still had choices to impact it.

And I do not get what you hate about the story. The reapers created a human like reaper, because they model their forms from the races they process. Sovereign was probably constructed from a squid-like species. Fighting the half formed human reaper was epic IMO. There are still some dark patches left as to what exactly is going on, but that is cause ME2 is part of a trilogy. ME3 will/should have all the answers.

Shame on you for dissing the crew missions. They were a lot more than what you got from the ME1 crew. It built a lot of their individuality, and showed a great deal of diversity in your crew. IE, Mordin and Grunt is awesome. Plus, Garrus is my favorite, and I love his character even more now.

As for the suicide mission... It was called that because no one ever returned from beyond the Omega 4 Relay. Going through is suicide, but Shepard said he will do it and return, cause he is the MFH! He used his brains to succeed, by updating his ship, getting the best crew he could, plus gaining their utmost trust, and even obtaining collector tech to go through. Shepard is the ultimate leader and warrior the human race has, which is why Miranda said they needed him and if he fails humanity will most probably follow. That IS why he could survive the suicide mission. Please pay attention while playing... Besides, if you do the rest of the game half-assed, most of the crew will die, and even Shepard can die.

Lastly, no, Bioware is not lazy. Remember all the same level designs used and reused during ME1, I think only missions had original layouts. All of ME2's levels are unique, Tuchanka, Omega, the Collector ship, the flotilla, even the new Citadel, all of these levels were uniquely and brilliantly designed.
Yes, you have less points per level, but no more redundant little points to add 2% accuracy, or 2 second biotic duration. The powers still have punch and now feel more valuable to spend points in.
Each Loyalty mission feel unique and well crafted to focus on the psyche of said teammate. They really evoke something personal once you get to know them. Samara's Ardat-Yakshi child, Thane's reflection on dying, Garrus being betrayed, Tali's treason. If none of these made you feel anything for them, then you have a heart dead as stone.

Moreover, the graphics are truly breathtaking. Just the work put into the art are reason enough why Bioware are not lazy.

P.S. The reason Liara 'acted' cold is because she had to keep her cover. She did kiss you, but she did not act all that warm. She is being watched after all, and her goal is to stay strong in bringing the shadow broker down. During her conversation you do see the softer Liara emerge, though not for long.

 

[sumanoskae]

Your facts are wrong, first off: 3 sniper rifles no matter what, buddy.
2nd off: The inventory was a pain in the ass, so was the mako, the majority didn't like them, so unfortunatly(Or fortunatly, in this case.) you, the minority, have to deal with it.

I guess I just prefer my RPG's to be oh I don't know... more like actual Role playing games, rather than jst blasting everything in sight that moves. They removed the strategy and the elements that make you think.

That depends on your definition of Role Playing Games. For example, my definition of Role Playing is: a game that focuses on the development of characters to suit a role

And just because something moves fast doesn't mean it's thoughtless, I found this game to inspire much more thought, what with the light physics being added to combat. Also the character classes were much more varied, with each one having it's own role in combat, not just three basic classes with three that were blends of the others

P.S: have you tried Dragon Age, you might like that one more

 

[Punisher A.J.]

Your facts are wrong, first off: 3 sniper rifles no matter what, buddy.
2nd off: The inventory was a pain in the ass, so was the mako, the majority didn't like them, so unfortunatly(Or fortunatly, in this case.) you, the minority, have to deal with it.

not to mention the missing 4 assult rifles(heavy assult rifle), 4 shot guns (free shot gun dlc with new copy and you can use grunts shotgun), and about 5 to 8 to 10 to ALOT of heavy weapons. (granade launchers, flamethrowers, particle beams, missle launchers, the Kain (fatboy))....

Personally I liked the mako.... just the enviorments (flat, hilly, mountains, hilly mountains in green, grey, blue, brown, or red) sucked at least ME2 had trees, the inventory was not a total loss, and once you beat the game you almost don't even need to scan planets. I got the scan 5 planets and do a mission with the missions they gave you.

 

[The Heik]

Actually, an imported level 60 does let you start as level 5. It also gives you 10,000 of every element and some amount of money I forgot (because you get a much bigger monetary bonus for importing a rich character).

And BTW the mineral thing also happens after you've beaten ME2 once. And it's 50,000 of each resource and 200,000 credits

No, you get different amounts for beating the game. For level 60, it's what I said above, it's less for lower level characters, and it's 100,000 credits for importing a rich character.

So simply beating ME2 gives you more stuff that getting to level 60 in ME!? What a rip-off

 

[geldonyetich]

What can I say? I agree with just about everything the OP said. Although some of it was nitpicks.

 

[sumanoskae]

I disagree(as you saw above), I'll do the columns one at a time(note: if I get fired up, please understand that I mean no offense, I'm just expressing my disagreement)

1: If you ask me the Mako handled like Thresher Maw shit, even when it wasn't. And they made you drive it ALL THE FUCKING TIME!(even in the story missions), at least with the scanning you can put on some music and zone out for a while, plus, you at least CAN ignore it. I am on purpose just for the sake of the sad endings emotional impact

2: Yes, but you still have all the ammo types, in fact you have more, now you can just turn them on and off at will. The original had four weapons that just got better as you progressed, all the new ones did were change the color, rename the weapon(so you could at least pretend you were doing something different), and make it less shit(which consequently meant, by the end of the game, BioWare accidentally made you feel like you were actually fucking shooting something!, as opposed to it's health bar). You technically have less weapons in this installment but they all handle a little differently, which is the exact opposite of lazy. BioWare this time went with Quality over Quantity, and this extended to the powers, there were less power levels overall, but each one made the power significantly stronger with one big evolution at the end to add more verity and strategy possibilities, plus there are far more powers now

3: I just had one

4: I pretty much agree with you here, but for different reasons, the cool downs made it hard to combine abilities with short effect times, I guess it was to make sure that spamming was impossible. The Unity thing didn't bother me though, made more sense, just macro all the healing to one convenient place

5: the subtitles?, really?. I guess I wouldn't know because they were off. Why would I watch porn when I could fuck Aphrodite. But I do agree the messages were annoying because I have an SD TV

6: the missions were anything but crappy, they were the highlight of the game, they gave each of the characters an added level of depth. And I, personally, was extremely moved by many of the scenes, for example: when Tali discovers her fathers corpse and then cries on Commander Sheppard's shoulder

7: yes there was, those subtle changes made the game more personal

8: I didn't do many side quests, so I wouldn't know about that. But I did strain my brain to complete some of the side quests in ME 1, BECAUSE I COULDN'T FIGURE OUT WHERE THE FUCK I WAS SUPPOSED TO BE GOING!. A game shouldn't make you think by having you grope in the dark and guess where the plot is. There's a difference between accomplishment and relief

9: the entire game consists of meeting and developing interesting characters?, you mean like an RPG?.

Sheppard: a lot of my friends died on that mission, but I guess they're sacrifice was just a lie to you
(I kid, I kid)

Again, like an RPG, the conclusion of the game depended on how you played it, it can end tragically or inspiringly(the final boss DID suck though)

Edit: forgot to mention that there is also a varied and interesting supply of heavy weapons(Avalanche, Blackstorm an so on)

 

[Blindem]

To be honest, I enjoyed ME2. However, I think some of the criticism leveled by the OP, as well as the criticism leveled in the blog review linked earlier, are very fair, particularly in light of the fact that this is the second of a planned series, and they didn't seem to tie the stories particularly well.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I either did not experience most of these issues or was not bothered by them. Scanning isn't terribly interesting, but I'll take it over roaming around most planets. When the terrain of a planet was reasonable, there was no problem, but much of the time the game instead expected me to drive across mountain range after mountain range.

 

[sln333]

I didn't experience the subtitle problem. I only started floating into the air once. I liked the all-powers cool down instead of each power having its own cool down timer, that made it more tactical. You had to think about what power to use instead of just having the possibility of flinging everything at your enemies. The ending makes sense and I don't get why people think it's anticlimactic. Last time I checked, you just saved humanity from being eradicated. Obviously the Illusive Man has got some more sinister motives, and that makes the end even more interesting.
As for the Mako, I wish there was a little bit of exploration in some kind of tank, but not to the extent the first game had. I don't really like the planet scanning, but it makes sense if you think about it. As an alliance soldier in the first game, it made sense for Shepard to explore new planets and find the minerals/anomalies/pirate organizations there. Now that he's working with Cerberus, it doesn't make much sense to do that. He answers to general distress signals or he does Cerberus side missions. Because he probes to find the exact location of a distress call, it wouldn't make sense for him to get in a tank and drive around trying to get there; he can just be dropped off on foot right there.

The game is great. The things people pick apart work if you think about them. Some of them come down to preference, and I liked most of the changes.

Also, there are enough weapons and armor sets. I have 4 armor sets, you can always change up the default one, and depending on what class you play as you get enough weapons. As an adept, I had a heavy pistol, a sub-machine gun, and one of the 7 heavy weapons. I didn't really need them because of the biotic powers. As a soldier I have 4 assault rifles. They made this game more about the classes and less about the weapons.

 

[JeanLuc761]

To be honest, I enjoyed ME2. However, I think some of the criticism leveled by the OP, as well as the criticism leveled in the blog review linked earlier, are very fair, particularly in light of the fact that this is the second of a planned series, and they didn't seem to tie the stories particularly well.

In my opinion, it's unfair to gauge how effective Mass Effect 2 is as the "tie together" when the trilogy is incomplete.
Would you judge Empire Strikes Back before you saw how it played into Return of the Jedi?

In response to the OP: Some of your criticism is understandable but you have a lot of nitpicks in there too.

1 - I miss the roaming planets too but the Mako had some of the worst vehicle experience I've ever had the displeasure to experience.

2 - I'm very, very glad they got rid of the excessive micromanaging and allowed you to customize existing weapons rather than give you increasingly less-shitty variants. Every weapon had a purpose and an advantage/disadvantage for other weapons of that class. Plus, it means Shepard can actually shoot something without me having to worry "OH, I need to put more points into accuracy."

3 - I experienced a few glitches, mostly clipping errors but they're negligible especially in a game this size.

4 - I also miss the independent cooldown timers but they also took way too fucking long to reset.

5 - I've played the game thoroughly through twice and never noticed a single spelling error.

6 - This nitpick is a bit silly. Sure the black boxes looked a little goofy but they were never deal breakers and they served a useful purpose.

7 - Liara was very fleshed out if you talked to her more and completed all her missions. As for the other characters...you have to be kidding me if you think Bioware was being lazy with them. These are, bar none, the most interesting and developed characters I've seen in all 14 years I've been gaming.

8 - I think the benefits for reaching Level 60 were substantial. Sure, I wasn't a god on earth but I wouldn't want to be. I need a challenge and Bioware handled it well.

9 - I thought the sidequests were great, vastly preferable to the heightmapped surfaces masquerading as "worlds" with maybe 6 different base layouts. Although the mineral scanning does suck something awful, I'll give you that. I generally resort to listening to music when I have to do that.

10 - The suicide mission is roughly 40% of the game and the rest of it is devoted to building an emotional connection to your allies. The purpose of this is to make your choices during the final mission feel like they have weight, rather than you just being able to piss away allies and still feel victorious (see Half-Life 2's final boss fight). I didn't mind the final boss too much and it was satisfying to take that bastard out.


My $0.02

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Your facts are wrong, first off: 3 sniper rifles no matter what, buddy.
2nd off: The inventory was a pain in the ass, so was the mako, the majority didn't like them, so unfortunatly(Or fortunatly, in this case.) you, the minority, have to deal with it.

I guess I just prefer my RPG's to be oh I don't know... more like actual Role playing games, rather than jst blasting everything in sight that moves. They removed the strategy and the elements that make you think.

strategy and elements that make you think? uhhh you need to use your group so damn much with managing them and what powers and ammo to use? and its a way better shooter rpg then nearly any other shooter rpg i have played out there, so why are you nitpicking so much at it? and i never once noticed any spelling errors, maybe its just your game, did you play it on the pc or 360? because i never once had any glitches or errors, and the whole mako thing, complete pain in the ass, im so glad they switched to planet scanning, much better, not the best, but much much better

they satisfied more then the majority of the player base, and they listened to them and upgraded what needed to be, and took away the annoying inventory screen (not too bad, but maybe a little more depth would have been nice) and the gameplay is so much more smooth than the first

so really, i dont know why you are shitting on a game like this, sure every game has its flaws, but you are accting like it ruined your experience and it happened every second of the game, the game was a masterpiece to most people, and bioware has yet to dissapoint me, although TOR i think will be a flop, so i'll admit i can be a fanboy but i am very pleased with the improvements to me2 from me1

 

[Avatar Roku]

Actually, an imported level 60 does let you start as level 5. It also gives you 10,000 of every element and some amount of money I forgot (because you get a much bigger monetary bonus for importing a rich character).

And BTW the mineral thing also happens after you've beaten ME2 once. And it's 50,000 of each resource and 200,000 credits

No, you get different amounts for beating the game. For level 60, it's what I said above, it's less for lower level characters, and it's 100,000 credits for importing a rich character.

So simply beating ME2 gives you more stuff that getting to level 60 in ME!? What a rip-off

How so? It ensures that you have to do scanning your first game, just so you understand it, then it lets you skip it in subsequent playthroughs if you dislike it. It makes sense that they'd force you to really play the game once before giving you the bonuses.

 

[The Heik]

Actually, an imported level 60 does let you start as level 5. It also gives you 10,000 of every element and some amount of money I forgot (because you get a much bigger monetary bonus for importing a rich character).

And BTW the mineral thing also happens after you've beaten ME2 once. And it's 50,000 of each resource and 200,000 credits

No, you get different amounts for beating the game. For level 60, it's what I said above, it's less for lower level characters, and it's 100,000 credits for importing a rich character.

So simply beating ME2 gives you more stuff that getting to level 60 in ME!? What a rip-off

How so? It ensures that you have to do scanning your first game, just so you understand it, then it lets you skip it in subsequent playthroughs if you dislike it. It makes sense that they'd force you to really play the game once before giving you the bonuses.

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Actually, an imported level 60 does let you start as level 5. It also gives you 10,000 of every element and some amount of money I forgot (because you get a much bigger monetary bonus for importing a rich character).

And BTW the mineral thing also happens after you've beaten ME2 once. And it's 50,000 of each resource and 200,000 credits

No, you get different amounts for beating the game. For level 60, it's what I said above, it's less for lower level characters, and it's 100,000 credits for importing a rich character.

So simply beating ME2 gives you more stuff that getting to level 60 in ME!? What a rip-off

How so? It ensures that you have to do scanning your first game, just so you understand it, then it lets you skip it in subsequent playthroughs if you dislike it. It makes sense that they'd force you to really play the game once before giving you the bonuses.

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

True, come to think of it. Although the 50,000 Element Zero is a godsend, I can't see anyone using even a fraction of that.

 

[The Heik]

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

True, come to think of it. Although the 50,000 Element Zero is a godsend, I can't see anyone using even a fraction of that.

Oh, don't I know. I have never gotten the damn resource below 25,000. And I hate how much palladium there is. I could have only 30 iridium and platinum in total, but over 70,000 palladium. It's insidious

 

[Avatar Roku]

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

True, come to think of it. Although the 50,000 Element Zero is a godsend, I can't see anyone using even a fraction of that.

Oh, don't I know. I have never gotten the damn resource below 25,000. And I hate how much palladium there is. I could have only 30 iridium and platinum in total, but over 70,000 palladium. It's insidious

It all depends on what you focus on upgrading, I have about 90,000 Irridium, 60,000 Platnum, and 2,000 Palladium.

 

[The Heik]

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

True, come to think of it. Although the 50,000 Element Zero is a godsend, I can't see anyone using even a fraction of that.

Oh, don't I know. I have never gotten the damn resource below 25,000. And I hate how much palladium there is. I could have only 30 iridium and platinum in total, but over 70,000 palladium. It's insidious

It all depends on what you focus on upgrading, I have about 90,000 Irridium, 60,000 Platnum, and 2,000 Palladium.

Mind trading? I have 7,000 irridium, 1,000 platinum, and 80,000 palladium

 

[Avatar Roku]

Not really. It just makes your first few researches and purchases easy. You usually never have many credits left after buying things on Omega during your first missions even with 200,000 credits extra. And I was mining for platinum right after the first two missions (Mordin and Archangel).

It seems that I ALWAYS need platinum

In total, 50,000 resources isn't much, and the planets in total have way more resources than you would ever be able to use.

True, come to think of it. Although the 50,000 Element Zero is a godsend, I can't see anyone using even a fraction of that.

Oh, don't I know. I have never gotten the damn resource below 25,000. And I hate how much palladium there is. I could have only 30 iridium and platinum in total, but over 70,000 palladium. It's insidious

It all depends on what you focus on upgrading, I have about 90,000 Irridium, 60,000 Platnum, and 2,000 Palladium.

Mind trading? I have 7,000 irridium, 1,000 platinum, and 80,000 palladium

Would if I could, I'm getting to the part of the game where upgrades are getting scarce anyway.