BioWare Explains Why There's No Homosexuality in Mass Effect 2

[joshuaayt]

"We still view it as... if you're picturing a PG-13 action movie," he said. "That's how we're trying to design it. So that's why the love interest is relatively light."

OBJECTION!
If there is still 'love interest' then any homosexuality is irrelevant- I can go out with that one guy I know without having sex with him.
Unless they are implying that homosexuality on its own is a dirty thing. Whatever will I do with all of these 'Tommy has two mommies' books?
EDIT: Err...Not that this hasn't probably been stated already. Gimme a break, I'm tired.

 

[zorlan]

WTF guys? Why does the game need to include homosexuality?!

Making a fuss about why there's no homosexuality in this game seems counter-productive to me. In a perfect world where homosexuals are treated equally, lack of homosexual romantic options in a game wouldn't be an issue. By making it an issue, you're effectively saying this group needs special treatment.

Why is no one complaining about the lack of asians in Mass Effect 2? That's racism!

 

[Xaositect]

This is the same kind of shit thats made my respect for Bioware evaporate into nothing.

Its hypocritical nonsense.

PG-13 action? Is that what you were doing when you made that foul mouthed pyscho skank Jack aka Subject Zero? What a load of tosh.

Stop beating around the bush Bioware and accept that you turned Mass Effect into a dumbed down shooter, and not featuring homosexual relations as prominently as the first game was a clear symptom of that.

You already sacrificed plot and character in favour of "more shooter combat". Why the hell is it so surprising that homosexuality would suffer as well?

Hard to believe Bioware used to be my absolute favourite developer. Now I can hardly stand to listen to their bullshit. Or in the case of Mass Effect 2, play their dumbed down game.

 

[Lemon Of Life]

Meh, I guess they couldn't be bothered. Oh well, I don't really care.

 

[ReSpawn]

Man, the internet never fails to disappoint.

"We might as well be 10 minutes back in time
For all the chance you'll change your mind..."

 

[LiquidGrape]

Hey look. Even more cut dialogue.

 

[joshthor]

they are the first big developer with a mainsteam game with a real noticable homosexual relationship (at least that ive seen) and they are under fire for not doing it on all thier games!? (i really want to say "how gay is that!?" ) anyway, its kind of dumb.

I'm pretty sure Will Wright had homosexuality in the sims before bioware?

ah. didnt think of that.

There's also Fallout 2, which flat-out had same-sex marriage.

meh, sure, shoot down my opinion. anyway, all im saying is they shouldnt be getting guff about not having homosexuality in mass effect 2 when most devs wont approach it at all, let alone with a main character, which bioware has been doing recently.

 

[McNinja]

Saw this on Kotaku earlier. They dodge the question and respond with some BS about it being a PG-13 movie (despite the game being rated M. You know, for mature).

I can't stand Bioware anymore. I was on the edge, but they've dodged questions like this more than once (see AngryJoe's Dragon Age: Awakening review, and the interview in it) and that, coupled with their newfound lack of quality products, is ridiculous.

You're kidding, right? You "can't stand" Bioware because they dodged what in truth was a controversial question designed to get a controversial answer?

Not sure where that lack of quality products comes into it either, unless you seriously believe ME2 and Dragon Age were both steaming piles of poo (putting you in strong disagreement with both critics and the majority of gamers)...not yo mention their upcoming SW:TOR

I should have specified. By products, I didn't mean ME 2 or Dragon Age (as I have yet to play either, so I can't really say). However, Mass Effect 2 wasn't perfect. Bioware literally refused to make a small change in the text that would make it readable on standard definition TVs. Christina Norman made several comments about how they basically disregarded the RPG aspect, and their RPG fans, of the game in favor of catering to shooter fans to make more money. Mass Effect 2 itself had/has several bugs that cause the sound to glitch out, characters to get stuck on places, the AI can be absolutely retarded at times, and there are several changes that seem forced (the whole "ammo" thing, for one).

By products, I meant Mass Effect 2's DLC. Have you played any of it? With the minor exception of the free stuff (however, keep in mind that just because something is free doesn't mean I can't be dissappointed with the quality of said DLC, like the Firewalker/Hammerhead pack).

Bioware has made awesome products (games) in the past, and it's not that they don't, but they seem to be lacking the quality that they once had. In Mass Effect 2, at least.

 

[LiquidGrape]

anyway, all im saying is they shouldnt be getting guff about not having homosexuality in mass effect 2 when most devs wont approach it at all, let alone with a main character, which bioware has been doing recently.

Well, see, the problem is that since so much material is available to prove that it was a considered option, not implementing it indirectly suggests that the idea of it "isn't right".
Also, the fact that Bioware has a history of catering to the many different facets of human sexuality makes the complete lack of it in Mass Effect all the more confusing.
- Surely it would be logical to assume that humanity for the most part would've gotten past such domestic issues in the light of the larger galactic community?
Frankly, I find it pretty disconcerting that interspecies relations are seemingly deemed more acceptable than the homosexual counterparts.

 

[mxfox408]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

 

[jamesworkshop]

anyway, all im saying is they shouldnt be getting guff about not having homosexuality in mass effect 2 when most devs wont approach it at all, let alone with a main character, which bioware has been doing recently.

Well, see, the problem is that since so much material is available to prove that it was a considered option, not implementing it indirectly suggests that the idea of it "isn't right".
Also, the fact that Bioware has a history of catering to the many different facets of human sexuality makes the complete lack of it in Mass Effect all the more confusing.
- Surely it would be logical to assume that humanity for the most part would've gotten past such domestic issues in the light of the larger galactic community?
Frankly, I find it pretty disconcerting that interspecies relations are seemingly deemed more acceptable than the homosexual counterparts.

I don't see that suggestion from bioware in the slightest if bioware believe that maleshep isn't compatible with being gay thats fine its their game.
I doubt in the story maleshep is supposed to be in the closet from socital pressure.

Reality is the entire thread is pathetic homosexuality doesn't appear in mass effect because they did want to include it and if people are not happy with their descion then don't buy the game Bioware absolutly does not need to cater to any demands it's quite frankly redickulous to make this into some kind of wider issue its a damm game not a political statment against the evils of homosexuality from some gay bashing company.
It's the same as asking why shepard can't become a clown and then suggesting bioware hates clowns.

 

[Woodsey]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

You know what - I find it hilarious when a straight person such as myself is taken to be gay because he questions why gays may have been treated unfairly.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

snip- but you can't blame them for dodging the question after they made the choice, I mean, is there any politically correct answer they could give?

Exactly. The Escapist, as I see it, is a mature gaming group. Yet when the subject off Shepard being gay came up in a topic just after release, a small amount of users were offended by the idea. Some got so vocal they got banned from here.
I think EA probably more than Bioware, are worried it would alienate too much of their target "PG 13" audience, and I think unfortunately no matter how morally wrong that decision is, it was more than likely financially right.

Personally I found it difficult to believe that the disconnection some gamers claimed they would have felt at a gay Shep was anything more than suppressed homophobia. I played as fem shep n got it on with Thane, didn't effect my immersion. If anything it made me feel guilty for cheating on my beautiful blue princess Liara

I mean, seriously, have you seen Miranda's ass?

Shhhh, it would have again tempted me away from my beautiful blue princess if there had been a lesbian option

 

[LiquidGrape]

Well, see, the problem is that since so much material is available to prove that it was a considered option, not implementing it indirectly suggests that the idea of it "isn't right".
Also, the fact that Bioware has a history of catering to the many different facets of human sexuality makes the complete lack of it in Mass Effect all the more confusing.
- Surely it would be logical to assume that humanity for the most part would've gotten past such domestic issues in the light of the larger galactic community?
Frankly, I find it pretty disconcerting that interspecies relations are seemingly deemed more acceptable than the homosexual counterparts.

I don't see that suggestion from bioware in the slightest if bioware believe that maleshep isn't compatible with being gay thats fine its their game.
I doubt in the story maleshep is supposed to be in the closet from socital pressure.

Reality is the entire thread is pathetic homosexuality doesn't appear in mass effect because they did want to include it and if people are not happy with their descion then don't buy the game Bioware absolutly does not need to cater to any demands it's quite frankly redickulous to make this into some kind of wider issue its a damm game not a political statment against the evils of homosexuality from some gay bashing company.
It's the same as asking why shepard can't become a clown and then suggesting bioware hates clowns.

Did you ignore the gist of my post on purpose, or was it just an arrogant mistake?
Either way, I've said time and time again that this would be a non-issue had it not been for the fact that the content was cut for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Honestly, the dialogue is still present on the disc.
- And Bioware insist on explaining its absence in the game with unconvincing definitions of what constitutes an RPG.

As for your asinine Clown-analogy, it falls flat.
Unless Shepard had the opportunity to partake in mime-lessons, in which case I'll accept it.

 

[jamesworkshop]

Well, see, the problem is that since so much material is available to prove that it was a considered option, not implementing it indirectly suggests that the idea of it "isn't right".
Also, the fact that Bioware has a history of catering to the many different facets of human sexuality makes the complete lack of it in Mass Effect all the more confusing.
- Surely it would be logical to assume that humanity for the most part would've gotten past such domestic issues in the light of the larger galactic community?
Frankly, I find it pretty disconcerting that interspecies relations are seemingly deemed more acceptable than the homosexual counterparts.

I don't see that suggestion from bioware in the slightest if bioware believe that maleshep isn't compatible with being gay thats fine its their game.
I doubt in the story maleshep is supposed to be in the closet from socital pressure.

Reality is the entire thread is pathetic homosexuality doesn't appear in mass effect because they did want to include it and if people are not happy with their descion then don't buy the game Bioware absolutly does not need to cater to any demands it's quite frankly redickulous to make this into some kind of wider issue its a damm game not a political statment against the evils of homosexuality from some gay bashing company.
It's the same as asking why shepard can't become a clown and then suggesting bioware hates clowns.

Did you ignore the gist of my post on purpose, or was it just an arrogant mistake?
Either way, I've said time and time again that this would be a non-issue had it not been for the fact that the content was cut for no apparent reason whatsoever.
Honestly, the dialogue is still present on the disc.
- And Bioware insist on explaining its absence in the game with unconvincing definitions of what constitutes an RPG.

As for your asinine Clown-analogy, it falls flat.
Unless Shepard had the opportunity to partake in mime-lessons, in which case I'll accept it.

The point is bioware doesn't need a reason if fact they gave two reasons if people don't like those reasons dont buy the product bioware doesn't have to change a thing
bioware has no obligation to explain or apologise thoses statment were probably intendid to just deflect the questions rather than provide a reason

bottom line is no gay shepard was a choice they made and thus that is the reason why it isn't there.
the only failing of the clown issue is that clowns are not considered controversial or a hot button issue and thus it only reinforce the idea that if people were more accepting of homosexuality this would never have become an issue.

 

[Malyc]

We didnt start the flame war
They were hating on it before we left our post

 

[mxfox408]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

You know what - I find it hilarious when a straight person such as myself is taken to be gay because he questions why gays may have been treated unfairly.

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

You know what - I find it hilarious when a straight person such as myself is taken to be gay because he questions why gays may have been treated unfairly.

Unrelated to any i said but understsndable as to why you feel that way. I do think if you belive something and choose to live the way you choose thats your right to do so. However if you feel that just because people dont have or show guy on guy that they are descriminating than your just misguided. I dont recall this being a dictatorship were people have to agree with one group or the othet but your quick accuse others of descrimination because they dont agree with you. If your religious dont force your beliefs and the samething goes for the gay community. Bioware doest have to show it, and they shouldnt have to be forced too show it. Put simply you dont like the decision bioware made have the choice to:

A) buy the product
B) dont buy the product

Thats your freedom so exorcise it.

 

[Woodsey]

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

You know what - I find it hilarious when a straight person such as myself is taken to be gay because he questions why gays may have been treated unfairly.

"There seems to some subtext there that no one is saying, namely that the inclusion of actual homosexual relationships might hurt sales,"

But:

a) They had no problems with that with Dragon Age

b) Really? Couldn't you then say that about there being a black character (let's face it, racism and homophobia generally seem to go in hand)?

I find it ironic and amusing that the biggest hippocrits are the homosexual community. Example given: Let say i dont Agree with homosexualality you will accuse me of hate and pretty much expressing your hate for me simply because i would disagree. People who make a product or write a story are using thier imagination to bring it to life. If thier imagination didnt have guy on guy then thats the way it is. You cant force someone to imagine something. I understand deeply were you stand and how you feel but trying to force your beliefs will only make things worse, i mean the homosexual community trys to force its way but gets ticked of when religious groups do the same. Grow up and get over it. Homosexuality is a lifestyle not a seperate race much like religion of whatever you believe to be true.

You know what - I find it hilarious when a straight person such as myself is taken to be gay because he questions why gays may have been treated unfairly.

Unrelated to any i said but understsndable as to why you feel that way. I do think if you belive something and choose to live the way you choose thats your right to do so. However if you feel that just because people dont have or show guy on guy that they are descriminating than your just misguided. I dont recall this being a dictatorship were people have to agree with one group or the othet but your quick accuse others of descrimination because they dont agree with you. If your religious dont force your beliefs and the samething goes for the gay community. Bioware doest have to show it, and they shouldnt have to be forced too show it. Put simply you dont like the decision bioware made have the choice to:

A) buy the product
B) dont buy the product

Thats your freedom so exorcise it.

Err... Alright. Can you please punctuate?

In response to what I think you're saying: the question is simply why, when there is a gay option in another game they made very recently, there is not one in this game even though there's a straight option.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I don't see why everyone feels the need to attack Bioware the moment it takes away homosexuality as an option. It's pretty obvious from this cut dialogue that Bioware originally intended for there to be homosexual relationships (at least a lesbian option).


So from a combination of these cut lines, Bioware's previous history of relationships in games and the mixed answers they gave you can see it was probably some external influence. Maybe EA's marketing department, maybe something else. But I doubt Bioware undertook a complete U-turn in their outlook on homosexual relationships for no apparent reason.

Stop beating around the bush Bioware and accept that you turned Mass Effect into a dumbed down shooter, and not featuring homosexual relations as prominently as the first game was a clear symptom of that.

Because as we all know there is a direct correlation between optional homosexual relationships and intelligent gameplay.

You already sacrificed plot and character in favour of "more shooter combat". Why the hell is it so surprising that homosexuality would suffer as well?

Do you really think that's how game development works? Do you think Bioware gathered for a big meeting and the conversation went like this:

Employee 1: We need to put in "more shooter combat".
Employee 2: Yes, but we'll need to sacrifice something else because that's the only way we can make progress.
Employee 1: Of course! Remove the plot and character.

The combat in Mass Effect 1 wasn't that great. It was manageable, it served it's purpose, but it wasn't that great. In Mass Effect 2 they worked on that, they made the combat system tighter and quite frankly, more fun. This is the worst kind of elitism there is; looking at a distinctly improved form of gameplay and then complaining because all the big numbers are gone. In my mind, 'intelligent gameplay' should be tactical and imaginative, not an exercise in number crunching.