BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Carne]

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

 

[twiceworn]

This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

The fact that this story had to be written upsets me. The "retakers" upset me. If they can say what they want to, I should be able to as well. And nobody is going to delete their account because some douche on the forums tells them to, so you can stop telling me to at any point.

this is a game news site you find news here you don't like it, go elsewhere. But the main fact is that this thread isn't about the "retakers" its about the legal fact of promising something then not doing it. that combined with the vastly insulting way in which you chose to express an otherwise perfectly valid point of view is what makes me say you are a troll and not the kind of person that belongs on the escapist. its the kind of thing you find on YouTube an immature and insulting way of saying an otherwise reasonable point of view. it is therefore easy to see that you are a troll who is at this very moment giggling as i foolishly reply again and again so i say again, go elsewhere. thank you

 

[twiceworn]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

We don't want happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.

What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!

Yes, everyone please stay quiet. Don't think. Don't argue. TAKE WHAT YOU'RE GIVEN.

BIG BROTHER LOVES YOU.

ignore him he's a troll, you just have to see his vastly insulting way of expressing his "OPINION" to see that he is being a troll.

 

[Redd the Sock]

No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Of course they deserved this. As do the developers of any game that hasn't lived up to what they've promised. If you sell a product advertising it has a feature and you take it out without removing the advertisement, you deserve to get sued.

I don't know why Bioware has been singled out, but it doesn't matter, more companies should learn. Just because they've always done it doesn't mean its ok.

What if I feel that ME3 did reflect my choices? Am I not entitled to that opinion? And, if I am entitled to my opinion, then ME3 does indeed live up to its promises. Where do we draw the line? CoD MW3 promised the best shooter of all time. I didn't think it was, but they promised it. Can I sue Infinity Ward now?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here. Do you at least see my point? Not asking to agree, just to see what I'm saying.

First, there is a differnce between a marketing slogan and a promised feature. Second, some terms are based solely in the subjective (best, epic) while others can be quantified to some degree. ME3 might have completely different experiences to you, and you might also think Luigi was a completely unique character, not Mario in green, but to the BBB it might not measure up to their definition, one perhaps mired in copyright infringement cases where they have to determine if something has enough originality to be it's own creation, or a blatent knock off to be sued.

Look, I get your fears, but I'm not a fan of the oppiste end of the spectrum either: one where companies can mislead through advertising and completely cast off fan wishes and expectations in the name of "art". Bioware's been good with taking risks in the past, but they picked the wrong time and way this go around.

 

[Kazedarkwind]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

 

[Erttheking]

Wow, someone in a high up position thinks that retake ME3 is right? That's very interesting.

 

[herenowit]

Alright... Now can we STFU about this? Seriously. Bioware didn't go back in time and rape you as a child. They made a shitty ending, again. You expected less?

Can we get over it? Can we go on with our lives? I am sick and damn tired of people going on about this. Speak with your wallet and never buy Bioware products again if you feel you have been so mistreated.

Guess what... you're not going to do it. Been hearing the same thing for so many of their games. People keep coming back for more.

You are like an abused spouse. They keep hurting you but you come back for more because you LOVE THEM. STFU and leave them... or enjoy the next 50+ hour RPG they make.

 

[Erlenmeyer Flask]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

There's an interesting story about the shipped ME3 ending, actually... Drew Karpyshyn, the original Mass Effect writer, had planned a very different ending. Now, it wasn't the best ending in the world from what I've seen leaked of it. But it fit with the game's lore and asked some pretty hard questions. Bioware tossed it out, and replaced it with the ending which actually shipped with the game: a simple cliché waste of time, which asks no hard questions and had no real consequences. I'm not privy to the discussions at BioWare that led to the change... But I'd hazard a guess that "playing it safe" had a lot to do with it.

I am frankly baffled as to why you think that the disastrous results of playing it safe will lead to more companies following suit. If anything, it's going to steer companies away from wimpy endings and towards making statements and asking hard questions. The present fiasco has more than made clear that gamers demand it.

 

[Innegativeion]

I just want to point out that the Shepard Lives scene is part of the ending (provided that you did the right things).

Indoctrination theory is still possible.

Interestingly their response to the indoctrination theory was very intentionally vague when asked at the PAX East panel. They even mentioned that the ending DLC's "content (should) speak for itself" in the very same response.

I have half a suspicion that they'll go along with it, claim it was their vision all along, and thousands of people will justifiably call bullshit on that claim.

So OP is right. Things are gonna keep on rumbling as they've been, and with the DLC we'll see either resurgence of rage and opposition, or finally a calm conclusion to all this, depending on how competently the DLC is done.

 

[Cheeseman Muncher]

ignore him he's a troll, you just have to see his vastly insulting way of expressing his "OPINION" to see that he is being a troll.

Continually pointing at him and saying "zomgz troll" without contributing to the discussion yourself is just as annoying. Simmer down.

Lots of words

This pretty much sums up my point of view here. Yes Bioware dropped the ball pretty spectacularly on this but there is no way they deserve this level of flak for it. They've already said they'll try and provide some closure, there's little else they can do without totally compromising their vision for the series. Give them a break, let them do their job and see what they come up with. Bioware are good at learning from their mistakes and if the new DA3 brief is anything to go by they've definitely realised they need to take fan input onboard when developing their games.

Give them a chance.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

I still stand by everything I've written (mjones916.wordpress.com, everybody!) but

*grits teeth*

the fans are kinda right, here.

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

 

[Carne]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

I also want to note MovieBob berated the ME fanbase in the same breath as whining about Micheal Bay getting the TMNT franchise.

 

[thethird0611]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Im with you on this. Buy them all a round and then another. They seriously need something after all this 'hate hate hate' their getting.

 

[Abedeus]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Oh, you are one of those ignorants that thinks we are angry because the ending isn't happy and full of sunshine.

I thought you died out two weeks ago. You know, when everyone who actually was interested in the case either discovered the major flaws in the endings and shut the hell up about his strawman arguments, or lives in denia... oooh. Okay.

Remember, the government is lying, and you 14 year old anarchists is all standing between them and world domination!

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

We don't want happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.

What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!

No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Don't forget the "There are 16 different endings" and "It's won't be as simple as making an A, B or C ending and picking one!" promises.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

The 'vocal minority' argument is usually an insulting waste of time. Every issue that has ever existed has been championed by a 'vocal minority'. It's hardly worth pointing this out on a specific case. If they really feel vindicated that their forum users aren't necessarily representative of their entire customer base, then good for them, I guess.

Gamers get lied to so often and so outrageously I'm surprised this is the opportunity people took to get mad about it. I think there are worse examples. But in absolute terms, I think Bioware totally has it coming. If you don't want a shit-storm, try not lying to people.

 

[Carne]

Don't forget the "There are 16 different endings" and "It's won't be as simple as making an A, B or C ending and picking one!" promises.

Well technically there are sixteen different endings. They are just all 99.9% the same.

 

[newdarkcloud]

But... but... but... artistic integrity! Would someone PLEASE think of the artistic integrity?!

Spoiler

That was a joke.

It'll be interesting to see how many people's humor receiver arrays require recalibrating.

 

[Cheeseman Muncher]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Also this. These guys are human beings as well. Try putting yourself in their shoes, I can guarantee you wouldn't enjoy this one bit.

 

[Epona]

If it were any other product and people felt it didn't live up to the advertising, they would just return it for a refund. Game companies can release shit in a box and you can't do a damn thing about it.

Don't give me that license crap, either. Even if you believe you are buying a license, a license can be refunded easier than a physical product.