BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Mournblade94]

No, they're getting sued for false advertising, not because the ending sucked (even though it did) but because the choices that you had at the ending achieved nothing. Hell, is it even possible to fail mass effect 3? If I rushed through the game and didn't collect war assets, picking the worst choices, I would still beat the reapers.

There wasn't meaningful choices. At all.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

If a company makes a product that consumers do nto like they will be less inclined to have those customer's sales in the future. If A company bothches something for a customer do they deserve their future business? If the answer is yes than it is the company with the entitlement.

At this point I probably will not buy the next Bioware game. I no longer care for their art. If they fix the ending and it is what was promised, I will reconsider. If this in the future means that game developers will not push the limit on their stories, I am OK with that considering the mass effect 3 ending was botched. I don't watch M. Night Shalamalan Movies. I certainly don't need his poor attempt at endings in my games. I expected better quality from bioware.

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

 

[Incomer]

This is getting way out of hand. You don't sue people for making a bad movie sequels why should ME3 be any different. And if you do sue people for a bad film then F you dude, you are the reason why we can't have any nice things.

And honestly I'm wondering how will they talk me into thinking that ending which we were given has any meaning. On the other hand I'd be probably happy with some vlogs about their thought process while they were making it (coke orgy would be crush my dreams so hard ).

Was it bad? Yeah it was pretty god damn terrible but it didn't cause major outbreak of cancer or something, stop freaking out >_<

 

[Carne]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

I also want to note MovieBob berated the ME fanbase in the same breath as whining about Micheal Bay getting the TMNT franchise.

I don't think you watched that video all the way through bud.

Talking about a quote from his blog actually.

 

[Abedeus]

Don't forget the "There are 16 different endings" and "It's won't be as simple as making an A, B or C ending and picking one!" promises.

Well technically there are sixteen different endings. They are just all 99.9% the same.

There are 9, with 3 colors total.

3 Red (vaporization, bad, good), 2 blue (bad, good) and green (synthesis).

And the only difference between Red Bad and Red Good is 5 second cutscene at end. And between others it's also VERY small difference in cutscene.

This is getting way out of hand. You don't sue people for making a bad movie sequels why should ME3 be any different. And if you do sue people for a bad film then F you dude, you are the reason why we can't have any nice things.

And honestly I'm wondering how will they talk me into thinking that ending which we were given has any meaning. On the other hand I'd be probably happy with some vlogs about their thought process while they were making it (coke orgy would be crash my dreams so hard ).

Was it bad? Yeah it was pretty god damn terrible but it didn't cause major outbreak of cancer or something, stop freaking out >_<

Did you read the article? It's false advertising.

If movie was called Harry Potter and the Wizard's Spitbucket, and the movie was about a vietnam veteran in a nursery home, you'd also get sued for false advertising.

Or a car claimed to be a 2011 model being actually from 2001.

ignore him he's a troll, you just have to see his vastly insulting way of expressing his "OPINION" to see that he is being a troll.

Continually pointing at him and saying "zomgz troll" without contributing to the discussion yourself is just as annoying. Simmer down.

Lots of words

This pretty much sums up my point of view here. Yes Bioware dropped the ball pretty spectacularly on this but there is no way they deserve this level of flak for it. They've already said they'll try and provide some closure, there's little else they can do without totally compromising their vision for the series. Give them a break, let them do their job and see what they come up with. Bioware are good at learning from their mistakes and if the new DA3 brief is anything to go by they've definitely realised they need to take fan input onboard when developing their games.

Give them a chance.

People already gave them a chance with DA2.

And while DA2 had room to make mistakes, ME3 didn't. It's the last game in the series, and making the ending a rushed pile of puke can't be fixed anymore.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Nobody MADE us do it. We WANTED to. Nobody GUARANTEED that our choices would come together in a meaningful way, they just told us that they would and asked us to take it on faith.

We made the conscious decision to play all three games. Buy the ticket, take the ride.

I think this rather helpful user compiles all the times that Bioware did in fact guarantee that our choices would come together in a meaningful way. [http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1]

In fact at some point I'm pretty sure that exact terminology was used.

But, meaningful to whom? Meaningful to the writers? Meaningful to me? To you? My point is that "meaningful" is a subjective term.

Meaningful is subjective. But look at that link. There are specific promises that were made that were not upheld in the game itself, like the whole thing with the Rachni.

 

[zinho73]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

This is impossible to happen. Anyone paying a minimum of attention will understand that this is not about happy, sad or bold. It is about quality and promises not fulfilled - to the point of being compared to false advertising. And I'm not just talking about the slogan here, Casey Hudson and Mark Walter's statements were at least misleading (if you are feeling generous).

Also, if the press do their jobs right, things will go even smoother. The updated content for the ending did not made things worse. Yeah, some people are still complaining and if the ending turns out to be bad, people will complain a little bit more (with reason), but inaction on the part of Bioware could really hurt the franchise - must fans are now in a wait and see state.

The press is handling the matter trying to validate the points they made with the whole artistic integrity fiasco. If someone are to blame for reading what's happening wrong it is the gaming press, unfortunately.

 

[krellen]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Also this. These guys are human beings as well. Try putting yourself in their shoes, I can guarantee you wouldn't enjoy this one bit.

The big difference? When I fuck up, I own up to it and refocus discussion on how I (or we, if appropriate) can fix it.

 

[lumenadducere]

Meh, a small moral victory.

Don't promise features you can't or won't deliver. It's that simple.

As for Mass Effect, everyone lost, except EA who's shoveling our money into their pit going directly to satan, who then soaks the bills in the tears of the fans and of those laughing at the fans. Meanwhile EA gets more underhanded deals to acquire more companies to screw up future sequels we all want.

The circle of grief continues.

Gotta say, I agree with this.

Yes, a lot of BioWare's statements leading up to ME3 before its release were a blatant contradiction to what was actually delivered. Yes, it's an incredibly shitty ending. But ultimately there are no winners here. BioWare is going to lose no matter what they do - they either "cave in" to "compromise artistic integrity" or they stick to their guns and do what they're doing now to add "clarification" to the ending (which by all accounts just leads me to think that they've completely missed the point of the complaints), which is a move that.

And the fans aren't going to win here either. Even if they change things, the anger over all of this is going to linger. A new ending that closes the complete WTF logic holes of the current one isn't going to remove the sour taste in the fans' mouth. And of course there are the fans who (wrongly, IMO) argue that this sets precedent, and they certainly wouldn't be happy.

EA of course has our money and they've got ownership of the IP since they own BioWare, so they can just keep pumping out Mass Effect games 'till the end of time. Or they can sit on it for a few years until this blows over and then come out with a new, updated version or sequel that relies on nostalgia and advertising to generate sales. Either way I really don't see any winners here except for them - they've got our money from sales and they still have the IP to use as they wish.

 

[Mournblade94]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Im with you on this. Buy them all a round and then another. They seriously need something after all this 'hate hate hate' their getting.

they botched their product. They got paid for their work. Perhaps in the future they will do a better job because of it.

Perhaps this will help them become better writers. Like their predecessor Drew Karpyshyn. He managed to write two good games.

 

[songnar]

Mass Effect's story was built around irony.

Nobody got it.

 

[Kargathia]

But, meaningful to whom? Meaningful to the writers? Meaningful to me? To you? My point is that "meaningful" is a subjective term.

It may be a subjective term and I respect that, but ME3s ending was pretty objectively not meaningful.

Disappointment is rampant these day.

ignore him he started his post with an insulting rant in order to get attention which makes him a troll.

Rule 14 of the internet would be appropriate here. Do not argue with (suspected) trolls. It makes for a very unattractive thread.

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

98% isn't a minority of the voters, but 50k people certainly is a minority of the players. Not to mention that by its very placement (the bioware forums) the results will be skewed towards the opinion of all the people who visited the forum merely to give voice to their discontent.
Not saying that there isn't widespread dissatisfaction about the ending (that would be hard to deny), merely noting that however much it may be, it certainly won't be 98% of the playerbase.

 

[orangeapples]

Does this mean Microsoft can be in some hot water since Halo 3's tagline was "finish the fight"? Sure Halo 3 ODST and Halo: Reach both came out after, but they were clearly set before Halo 3.

I'm kidding. But I think people need to calm down a bit. Sure the ending of Mass Effect 3 is really poorly planned, and the prompt for DLC to further Shepherd's ending was a swift kick in the ass for all of the people who were disappointed in the ending, and there was a lot of things that either did not connect with the previous games, did not make sense or straight out forgotten, and no matter all of the decisions made in the game, your outcome was relegated 1 choice at the end, ultimately making everything you accomplished in the 3 games and their respective DLC ultimately pointless, and where was I going with this? Oh yeah, calm down, you're all just overreacting /sarcasm.

Kidding aside, I think people really should tone it down a bit and wait for the FREE DLC THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS AND THEN AFTER THAT IT WILL MOST LIKELY BE LOADED ONTO THE DISK IN SUBSEQUENT RELEASES to bring back the pitchforks and torches.

Spoiler

Sure the ending kinda blows, but if they are able to clarify it and explain how the 3 choices at the end make a difference other than the superficial and why the Normandy would have needed to escape the control wave since all that would have done was make Shepherd the hive mind of the Reapers or why the Normandy would have needed to escape the Synthesis wave (although I guess it makes sense, since having a sentient space ship would have been rather awkward even if it is kinda sentient already), and why Shepherd's eyes only change to indoctrinated in the green and blue endings and not the red, or why destroying all synthetics makes shepherd any better than the reapers since it has been shown that the Geth and Quarians can work together (if you chose so) and Shepher and EDI get along just fine so if the organics stop treating the synthetics like a slave force, there would be no slave uprising, or how it would possibly make sense if the God Child itself is an artificial construct (synthetic) and created the reapers (synthetic) to save the organics from their own synthetics by "harvesting" the organics and converting them into a reaper form turning the organics into synthetics and then these converted organic-synthetics will take part in the next cycle where they will be synthetics "harvesting" organics and somehow concluded that this was a viable solution instead of destroying the organics' synthetics and that the harvesting process ultimately removes anything that remotely made the organics organic in the first place

So yeah, Bioware made a mistake, they admitted it and are making the DLC free. This DLC may very well make the endings very distinct and fill in all of the gaps that everyone is complaining about. Possible yes, but probability is not in Bioware's favor, but we should still wait and see.

 

[Carne]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Also this. These guys are human beings as well. Try putting yourself in their shoes, I can guarantee you wouldn't enjoy this one bit.

The big difference? When I fuck up, I own up to it and refocus discussion on how I (or we, if appropriate) can fix it.

And they are at least attempting to fix it, without completely changing the way they wanted to make the ending.

As it's been said many times "the way they wanted to make the ending" is BS. This ending was tacked on after a few script leaks. The scenes involving the illusive man and the god child were very last minute in the development cycle. They cut out a lot of their planned material. Games are not things set in stone from beginning to end.

To give an example a few months back they had planned for Shepard to become a Reaper in one ending and join them in reaping this cycle. There was an ending about dark matter that the writers had planned from the second game and there are a number of hints toward in ME3, like Conrad Verner.

Video games are a collaborative effort with many writers. You can't act like it's a single artistic vision.

 

[Carne]

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

98% isn't a minority of the voters, but 50k people certainly is a minority of the players. Not to mention that by its very placement (the bioware forums) the results will be skewed towards the opinion of all the people who visited the forum merely to give voice to their discontent.
Not saying that there isn't widespread dissatisfaction about the ending (that would be hard to deny), merely noting that however much it may be, it certainly won't be 98% of the playerbase.

This was also within the first week after release so most of the playerbase hadn't finished the game yet. The fact stands that those who felt the need to post about the ending voiced their opinions through these polls and threads. The discontent was resounding.

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

Sorry, what? I didn't realise that the original Star Wars films were flawless works of art. I was under the impression that the first Star Wars film suffered from terrible dialogue and choreography, and the Empire was defeated in the third one by an army of teddy bears.

Well then fortunately for you, he changed the art to fit more with what you envision.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

You've completely contradicted yourself here. According to you, the people angry with Bioware don't want a new ending, they're simply going to exercise their right to not buy their next game. Except the whole point about the Retake movement was that people were telling Bioware they would be perfectly happy to pay for a new ending. Which rather shoots that whole "refusing to buy" argument in the foot...

Incorrect. there is no contradiction. If bioware does not fix the ending in some way, then those people know to have less faith in bioware. So they would BUY the DLC. If it was then not adequate they would know NOT to buy future releases from Bioware.

It is not up to Bioware to make art that the customer wants. The customer wants a million contradictory things. It is up to Bioware to make the game they want, and it is up to you to decide whether you want to buy it or not.

Correct. You understand completely. Now if the art THEY want is not what the customer wants they lose business.

Truly, more bullshit around a single issue I have never seen in a game...

this is also true. It is a shame a game with such high aspirations failed in the end. Not as a commercial endeavor as it generated lots of money for Bioware, but as a customer relations issue. Perhaps they will recover their image with a good DLC this summer.

 

[Danz D Man]

When did BioWare lie? Can someone point me to an actual official advertisement where they said "no ABC ending"? I don't see a false advertising case here. I can see maybe someone from BioWare said that it wouldn't happen, but that doesn't mean it was advertised.

 

[DugMachine]

This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

You're not helping by calling him out on him being a troll multiple times and adding nothing to this conversation except "delete your account." While yes, he started in a trollish type way to get attention i'm sure, he brings up a few valid points which are worth a read, just like all the other posts here. Only posts that annoyed me in this entire thread are you calling him a troll.

 

[fozzy360]

I love this. I just could not stop laughing when I first read this. I just knew that this would rile up folks on both sides, and oh boy, rile them up it has. Of course, there's probably nothing that can be done legally speaking, but when you have the BBB taking you down a peg, then you know things just aren't going in your favor.

I'd like to believe the rumor that Hudson had locked himself away from the rest of the writing team with Drew Karpyshyn, because it's the only thing that makes any real sense. If that were true, then I do feel bad for those guys because they're getting a good chunk of the hate for this, but I don't feel bad for Hudson, Karpyshyn, or EA for the glorious mess they made for themselves here.

On the one hand, I really shouldn't be relishing all this, but, on the other, I just keep coming back for more. Maybe it's because this will hopefully lead to the notion that endings are incredibly important and won't be treated as something trivial to be completed at the last moment. Come to think of it, isn't that kind of interesting? We want games to become something on the same level as films and books, but when something like ME3 comes along and stumbles at the end, there are those of us willing to turn a blind eye to it and claim "Well, it's about the journey, not the destination." If we want games to evolve to a place above where they are now, then we need to call out bad endings that come close to destroying what's come before. There have been many games with bad endings, and though ME3 is particularly special because the marrative depends on player decisions, we should call out bad endings, especially when it comes to cases like ME3. God, I hope I'm making sense.

tl;dr, This is hilarious, I feel sorta bad, let's call out bad endings especially with incidents like ME3.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

The fact that this story had to be written upsets me. The "retakers" upset me. If they can say what they want to, I should be able to as well. And nobody is going to delete their account because some douche on the forums tells them to, so you can stop telling me to at any point.

this is a game news site you find news here you don't like it, go elsewhere. But the main fact is that this thread isn't about the "retakers" its about the legal fact of promising something then not doing it. that combined with the vastly insulting way in which you chose to express an otherwise perfectly valid point of view is what makes me say you are a troll and not the kind of person that belongs on the escapist. its the kind of thing you find on YouTube an immature and insulting way of saying an otherwise reasonable point of view. it is therefore easy to see that you are a troll who is at this very moment giggling as i foolishly reply again and again so i say again, go elsewhere. thank you

I'm not going to lie and say that I'm not giggling (now). Trolling was not my purpose, though. Granted, I should have taken some time to cool down before my initial comments, but my sentiments are the same.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

This, good sir, is an entirely different thread altogether! Irrational? Gearbox? Ubisoft Montreal? Blizzard? Valve? Mojang? I love me some Bethesda, but they are farrr from the only quality developer left.