BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[medv4380]

Dangnabbit, just when I thought the Mass Effect stuff was winding down after the DLC announcement... Confound you government!

But in all serious, despite the fact that I was getting annoyed with the fan reactions and the hundreds of ME3 threads after a while, I am REALLY curious to see how Bioware and/or EA are going to respond to this, especially since they've appeared to have blown off most of the responses from people up until now.

FYI. The BBB isn't a government entity. That's why it's website if bbb.org and not bbb.gov

A BBB complaint is only worth while if people use the site to look up a companies reputation. In my opinion it's better as a Business to Business transactions or large purchases like car dealers. Also being a BBB member given you some easy connections as a Business since some people wont do business unless they can look up your BBB rep.

In this case a game company is hurt more by metacritic complains than by BBB complaints.

 

[Eggsnham]

Oh my God.

Get. Over. It.

ME3 was a disappointment to many people, and there could have been a lot more done with it.

Welcome to videogames.

 

[grumpymooselion]

Hhmmmm . . . for two games, while there have been 'some' games, people at large still seemed to enjoy the Mass Effect series, yes? I know I did. So they felt automatically that the third would be worth buying. I know I did. And, as a result, some 'seem' to feel regret for the purchase. I know that the PC player doesn't have much of an option to return a game, and get a refund, for a product they're disappointed in.

There's a little bit more wiggle room with Consoles, but I've noticed with the, "New Purchase" Locked Content Codes, that game stores in my area are less and less willing to allow for returns.

-

Let's address something else though. I am curious, how does a consumer decide whether want to buy a game or not these days? Think about it for a bit, and don't go for the obvious answers. Reviews? I question a lot of reviews these days, since the industry has very real, proven practices that put most any review source that receives pre-release review copies under some scrutiny.

I know some of you will scoff at that, but look at IGNs pre-release video review. Notice anything funny about it, now that you've actually played the game? I don't mean that he praised the endings, which he did. Toss his view on the endings out the window, and look earlier in the review.

The IGN reviewer is reviewing Mass Effect 3, as you go through his review, and talking about/reviewing things that aren't there at all, in the final game. As an example, he's talking about Shepard's Trial on Earth, as if it were in the game and something you experienced, during the review. It's not in the game.

If you were to have seen that review, prior to getting the game, wouldn't you be wondering what was going on? I know I was, because I didn't know when I first started up ME3 that the trial wasn't there anymore. I'd seen the IGN video review, before picking up ME3, and it just surprised the heck out of me. He was literally review parts of the game that were not in the game at all.

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Another bone I have to pick are "perfect" review scores, not just in reference to ME3, but in reference to 'any' game. Have any of you ever played a game that was "literally" without flaw, that you could call perfect? I know I haven't, not once. There are games I love, but I've never seen a game that lacked flaws entirely.

Mass Effect 3, I like, honestly, maybe I have some issues with certain aspects of it, that I can say, but I don't hate it. It's just not the best game I've ever played, that doesn't mean it's trash. However, it has very real bugs, very real mechanical and graphical missteps that even some of these supposed "perfect score" givers mention. If you can identify actual flaws in a game, and still give it a perfect score . . . I question your integrity as a reviewer, and that's exactly what I saw from a good deal of these Perfect Score reviews I came across.

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So I'm not sure I know how to buy a game anymore, because I'm not sure I trust reviews to be honest or even accurate. I've seen EA and Bioware both cite review scores as a defense to some of the player feedback to ME3, and they've noted how high the scores were. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that part of their defense points to reviews like these?

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IGN themselves are very questionable lately, and you'll see IGN people defending EA-Bioware left and right, more notably, you'll see IGN people outright insult players that didn't like the game. I saw one IGN personality call people that didn't like the game, "Entitled" . . . and it bothered me, but I didn't know why at first. Then I looked back at that video review, that seemed to be reviewing some things that weren't in the game, and it hit me. I doubt anyone will ever be able to prove it though.


Still . . . I suppose that's just me. Oh well.

 

[roushutsu]

Dangnabbit, just when I thought the Mass Effect stuff was winding down after the DLC announcement... Confound you government!

But in all serious, despite the fact that I was getting annoyed with the fan reactions and the hundreds of ME3 threads after a while, I am REALLY curious to see how Bioware and/or EA are going to respond to this, especially since they've appeared to have blown off most of the responses from people up until now.

FYI. The BBB isn't a government entity. That's why it's website if bbb.org and not bbb.gov

A BBB complaint is only worth while if people use the site to look up a companies reputation. In my opinion it's better as a Business to Business transactions or large purchases like car dealers. Also being a BBB member given you some easy connections as a Business since some people wont do business unless they can look up your BBB rep.

In this case a game company is hurt more by metacritic complains than by BBB complaints.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Mournblade94]

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

This, good sir, is an entirely different thread altogether! Irrational? Gearbox? Ubisoft Montreal? Blizzard? Valve? Mojang? I love me some Bethesda, but they are farrr from the only quality developer left.

Your right. I have to agree.

 

[ElPatron]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

guaranteedreplies.jpg

I give you 4/10 but it's still too obvious. You need to be subtle.

snip

I subscribe to everything in this post.

 

[Agayek]

I love this. I just could not stop laughing when I first read this. I just knew that this would rile up folks on both sides, and oh boy, rile them up it has. Of course, there's probably nothing that can be done legally speaking, but when you have the BBB taking you down a peg, then you know things just aren't going in your favor.

I'd like to believe the rumor that Hudson had locked himself away from the rest of the writing team with Drew Karpyshyn, because it's the only thing that makes any real sense. If that were true, then I do feel bad for those guys because they're getting a good chunk of the hate for this, but I don't feel bad for Hudson, Karpyshyn, or EA for the glorious mess they made for themselves here.

Actually, Karpyshyn didn't do any work on ME3. He left Bioware right after TOR was finished. The rumor is that Hudson and Mac Walters (who took over for Karpyshyn as lead writer) locked themselves in a closet and hammered out the ending while completely ignoring the outline/story-guide that Karpyshyn left behind and the rest of the writing team.

I do agree with you though, you just need to replace Karpyshyn with Walters.

 

[mxfox408]

Yes they promised one thing and didn't give what they advertised.

 

[mxfox408]

Stupid internet doublepost

 

[RileyinaBox]

It does shape the ending. It's kind of arbitrary how it changes, but there are multiple endings which are based on your choices. This is bullshit.

 

[Raijha]

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

I have to laugh at this. Having recently just finished the main storyline for Skyrim, I was honestly amazed there wasn't as much furor about that completely anti-climactic POS "ending."

And if anyone wants to pull the whole, oh, Skyrim is about the journey and the open world and the pure enjoyment of the game itself, not just having an awesome ending...........yea, think about that.

Although, to be fair, I put more time into 1 character on Skyrim pre mods or DLC and without completing 10 side quests (did absolutely everything else) than all the time I've put into all 3 Mass Effect games over all chars........does that even mean anything? Probably not.

OT: Mass Effect news again, rawr!

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I think people forget that ME3 is still a great game, just with a shitty ending. People didn't flip out this bad over Dragon Age 2, and that game wasn't nearly as good as ME3...

People DID flip out over Dragon Age 2, in-fact it's where the Bioware hatred began becoming more than just the mere group of people who didn't like Mass Effect 2. It's where the Hepler controversy boomed, it's where people started questioning whether Bioware had "sold out" to EA.

In fact the first time I asked "Why all the Bioware hate?" (before ME3 was released) the first response was "Did you not play Dragon Age 2?"

honestly amazed there wasn't as much furor about that completely anti-climactic POS "ending."

And if anyone wants to pull the whole, oh, Skyrim is about the journey and the open world and the pure enjoyment of the game itself, not just having an awesome ending...........yea, think about that.

In my opinion, the Elder Scrolls series has never been sold on its story so the fact that Skyrim's story was competent at all made it impressive. Mass Effect has always been about the story, people had forgiven the gameplay issues for the first two games because the story was interesting.

 

[Kazedarkwind]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

No. No, no, no, no.

There is just no way that the ending as it stands is what any of the writers at Bioware really intended. I refuse to imagine that an intelligent, decent person who writes for a living would consider that ending complete and final.
I remember a phrase from Yahtzee's review of Dark Void where he said "this is a game that ran out of something".
When it came time to wrap up the ending to ME3, something ran out. Time, money, will, patience... whatever. A compromise was made. Either a lot more material had been written and they had to scrap half of it and go "Well, here's what we can manage to work in there at this point; we'll have to hope it's enough. Who knows, maybe the lack of an explanation will spark vivid debates!"
or
They had something entirely different planned and as the release date loomed ever closer, they had to go "Nope, there's no way we can get all that done without a delay; we'll have to whip up something else."

Of course, now that it's out, everyone in Bioware/EA's employ has to stand by that decision. Not one public statement made since the game came out has come from the heart of any of these people; it's impossible. "We stand by the team's creative vision". That's a sanitized PR line if I ever saw one.

im not disagreeing with you on the fact that SOMETHING ran out. (although i personally find the ending satisfying.) what im saying is is that AS AN ARTIST, the work that got done is what is represented as the writers works, and people are universally HATING you on a personal level. It is the worst fear of any artist that "What you make is a reflection of you". When it certainly isn't but people are treating the writers like that. Which is very heart breaking to think about.

Especially when they say "we stand by the team's creative vision" It's not really about the condolences of the public when i read that, i read it as "Our creative team is feeling like shit, but we support them since they have made amazing games for so many years and will continue making more amazing games for you"

 

[mxfox408]

I think Bioware should just stop making RPG games and start making sport-sims and multiplayer FPSes. At least fans of those games are not as rage-filled as RPG ones, and are more grateful.
And it will bring them more money.

I understand that they could have done it better. I understand that everyone (including me) wanted to see the impact of their actions. But this is just ridiculous. Such ammount of rage and complaints is but a tantrum. Legal complaint? Are you kidding me?!

They [Bioware]have already said, that they, well, "feel us" (On this I trust Bioware); They have already stated that they are making an Extended cut DLC (which, I assure You, will be free: EA won't dare make us pay for it after the whole scandal).
What else do you want? You want them to buy your copies from you and replace it with the "right" ones for free? Maybe a fellatio from Ray Muzyka himself, just for the sake of it?

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.
So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:
-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!
-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.
-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

Obviously you haven't heard of the fans blackout boycott of Modern Warfare 3 on 4-20-12

Youpoint, like most of the douche bags and asshole journalist like movie Bob, and that Colin guy at ign who has his head up his ass. if people are promised something and built up and invested into it(fans who spent money and expected the advertising to hold up to the money invested into a gross product IS AN INVESTMENT) have a right to complain when a company didn't deliver what it advertised.let's say you ordered a pizza and they royally fucked up your order and then ignore your complaints for one month, then when they finally respond they tell you they will clarify why they did that and they are not going to give you a new one, wouldn't you feel entitled to get what you paid MONEY for? Or would let the company continue to treat you and its consumers like shit?

 

[Artemicion]

The sound of a hundred "journalists"' mouths dropping after being told by a member of the BBB that they're wrong.

'Tis a sweet sound.

 

[Krantos]

This is slightly off topic, but I think this post is a good example of how the escapist news contributors can't keep their opinions out of their "News" posts.

"their nerd rage is almost beyond belief." (also you had 2 their in that sentence)

"those who hoped BioWare would stick to its guns"

"gave in to the howling."

A five minute edit could have removed these elements, allowing this to be an actual news piece rather than an opinion column. Reporters are allowed to have opinions, of course. But a good reporter keeps it out of the news stories. If you want to write an opinion piece, then do so, but don't label it "News."


OT: I don't particularly support the Retake efforts, but I don't really see this as a bad thing at all. Companies should start being more careful when it comes to advertising. Anyone who's pays attention knows better than to put any weight on marketing for games any more, since the number of times promised features or functionality have been lacking in the final product is staggering.

And this pretty much only happens in the games industry. If a new car is advertised to have a built in GPS, and then DOESN'T, there's going to be hell to pay. If a blender says it has 12 power settings, it had damn well better have 12 power settings. You get the point.

Simple fact is this is just another instance of the games industry not being held to the same standards as other industries. This sort of thing needs to stop.

Heh, if they do start enforcing penalties for false advertising, they're really going to have to gag Peter Molyneux.

 

[Something Amyss]

I know you report what gets views... but GOD DAMN, can we just drop the Mass Effect shit.

Not as long as it's an issue. Sorry violating consumer rights and such bothers you.

Hey, someone in a position of power who DOESN'T think we are a bunch of whiny entitled douche bags! alright!

People like the BBB are about the only one in a position that should matter. Mostly, it's douchebags and internet personalities.

Do you REALLY feel they deserved this? Games marketing ALWAYS promises more than the game could deliver. Why is Bioware being singled out?

Because Bioware made singular and specific promises. Most products advertise with exaggerations and implications, most aren't this specific. Coke can advertise with beautiful girls and amazing parties, but they can't say "if you drink Coke, hot women will want to fuck you."

 

[Something Amyss]

They are different, though. Your choices along the way affect what ending you get. If you don't have enough GR, you don't get Synthesis, and the cutscenes are slightly different for the other two. Plus, if you get enough, then the destroy option gets the extra scene.

You might not like it, but it's still there. And it will most certainly hold up in court.

"slightly different" doesn't meet the claims, however. Not to mention, the specific claims of not getting an A B or C ending.

 

[Sylveria]

Hey, someone in a position of power who DOESN'T think we are a bunch of whiny entitled douche bags! alright!

Funny enough, the people with legitimate power or reputation, such as Forbes, have been on the side of the Retake movement. It's the people with no power who troll the internet, like Bob, or "game journalists" who have been against it.

 

[thiosk]

The only defense I have for ME is that the game universe cannot really end in grossly different ways-- they need a second series set ten thousand years in the future, and a Super Happy Fun ending where galactic travel and communication didn't collapse would be hard to reconcile with the ending this one got.

To me, and I didnt' watch all the endings, shephard dies and doesn't die constitutes a dramatic difference outcome, driven by the choices players make.

Note: Thiosk did not play ME2 or ME3, but he has picked up that this might be the end for shepard, but not for mass effect.