BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

[Kargathia]

But, meaningful to whom? Meaningful to the writers? Meaningful to me? To you? My point is that "meaningful" is a subjective term.

It may be a subjective term and I respect that, but ME3s ending was pretty objectively not meaningful.

Disappointment is rampant these day.

ignore him he started his post with an insulting rant in order to get attention which makes him a troll.

Rule 14 of the internet would be appropriate here. Do not argue with (suspected) trolls. It makes for a very unattractive thread.

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

98% isn't a minority of the voters, but 50k people certainly is a minority of the players. Not to mention that by its very placement (the bioware forums) the results will be skewed towards the opinion of all the people who visited the forum merely to give voice to their discontent.
Not saying that there isn't widespread dissatisfaction about the ending (that would be hard to deny), merely noting that however much it may be, it certainly won't be 98% of the playerbase.

 

[orangeapples]

Does this mean Microsoft can be in some hot water since Halo 3's tagline was "finish the fight"? Sure Halo 3 ODST and Halo: Reach both came out after, but they were clearly set before Halo 3.

I'm kidding. But I think people need to calm down a bit. Sure the ending of Mass Effect 3 is really poorly planned, and the prompt for DLC to further Shepherd's ending was a swift kick in the ass for all of the people who were disappointed in the ending, and there was a lot of things that either did not connect with the previous games, did not make sense or straight out forgotten, and no matter all of the decisions made in the game, your outcome was relegated 1 choice at the end, ultimately making everything you accomplished in the 3 games and their respective DLC ultimately pointless, and where was I going with this? Oh yeah, calm down, you're all just overreacting /sarcasm.

Kidding aside, I think people really should tone it down a bit and wait for the FREE DLC THAT WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS AND THEN AFTER THAT IT WILL MOST LIKELY BE LOADED ONTO THE DISK IN SUBSEQUENT RELEASES to bring back the pitchforks and torches.

Spoiler

Sure the ending kinda blows, but if they are able to clarify it and explain how the 3 choices at the end make a difference other than the superficial and why the Normandy would have needed to escape the control wave since all that would have done was make Shepherd the hive mind of the Reapers or why the Normandy would have needed to escape the Synthesis wave (although I guess it makes sense, since having a sentient space ship would have been rather awkward even if it is kinda sentient already), and why Shepherd's eyes only change to indoctrinated in the green and blue endings and not the red, or why destroying all synthetics makes shepherd any better than the reapers since it has been shown that the Geth and Quarians can work together (if you chose so) and Shepher and EDI get along just fine so if the organics stop treating the synthetics like a slave force, there would be no slave uprising, or how it would possibly make sense if the God Child itself is an artificial construct (synthetic) and created the reapers (synthetic) to save the organics from their own synthetics by "harvesting" the organics and converting them into a reaper form turning the organics into synthetics and then these converted organic-synthetics will take part in the next cycle where they will be synthetics "harvesting" organics and somehow concluded that this was a viable solution instead of destroying the organics' synthetics and that the harvesting process ultimately removes anything that remotely made the organics organic in the first place

So yeah, Bioware made a mistake, they admitted it and are making the DLC free. This DLC may very well make the endings very distinct and fill in all of the gaps that everyone is complaining about. Possible yes, but probability is not in Bioware's favor, but we should still wait and see.

 

[Carne]

i feel really bad for the writers at bioware right now, as an artist myself all i can imagine is them slumped down behind a desk hating their life cause people are practically wishing death upon them for there work. Which is one of the most heart breaking things ive seen out of this whole ending debate.

if i ever meet them im buying them a drink. They don't deserve this crap that the retakers are giving them.

Also this. These guys are human beings as well. Try putting yourself in their shoes, I can guarantee you wouldn't enjoy this one bit.

The big difference? When I fuck up, I own up to it and refocus discussion on how I (or we, if appropriate) can fix it.

And they are at least attempting to fix it, without completely changing the way they wanted to make the ending.

As it's been said many times "the way they wanted to make the ending" is BS. This ending was tacked on after a few script leaks. The scenes involving the illusive man and the god child were very last minute in the development cycle. They cut out a lot of their planned material. Games are not things set in stone from beginning to end.

To give an example a few months back they had planned for Shepard to become a Reaper in one ending and join them in reaping this cycle. There was an ending about dark matter that the writers had planned from the second game and there are a number of hints toward in ME3, like Conrad Verner.

Video games are a collaborative effort with many writers. You can't act like it's a single artistic vision.

 

[Carne]

It's kind of strange to see unhappy gamers getting so much shit from other gamers. I keep reading, over and over again, something like "Yes they were totally dishonest, yes they lied to get you to buy the product. But it's not technically illegal, you entitled douche!" It's just weird.

Honestly I think gamers are entitled to the product they were told they were buying. This is a much larger issue than just ME3. The media is pushing really hard to make it look like a small group of gamers who are mad. Last time I saw the poll on BioWare's forum it had over 50K votes about the ending and only 2% liked the game as is. 98% is totally a minority of the players right?

98% isn't a minority of the voters, but 50k people certainly is a minority of the players. Not to mention that by its very placement (the bioware forums) the results will be skewed towards the opinion of all the people who visited the forum merely to give voice to their discontent.
Not saying that there isn't widespread dissatisfaction about the ending (that would be hard to deny), merely noting that however much it may be, it certainly won't be 98% of the playerbase.

This was also within the first week after release so most of the playerbase hadn't finished the game yet. The fact stands that those who felt the need to post about the ending voiced their opinions through these polls and threads. The discontent was resounding.

 

[Mournblade94]

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

MovieBob is quite often wrong, or just whining. He is a film critic. His analysis is usually less than scientific.

The difference is George Lucas did not botch his original work. Bioware Botched their original work.

Sorry, what? I didn't realise that the original Star Wars films were flawless works of art. I was under the impression that the first Star Wars film suffered from terrible dialogue and choreography, and the Empire was defeated in the third one by an army of teddy bears.

Well then fortunately for you, he changed the art to fit more with what you envision.

yes they are changing their art for customers who PAY money for their art. Their art was a success visually. The writing of Mass Effect 3 was sub par.

If Bioware cannot write good endings (as evidenced by Dragon Age II, and Mass Effect 3) then I will not PAY money for their art. I won't participate in their art. I am not entitled to a good ending. If I don't get good endings I will cease being a bioware customer. If all the 'retake mass effect fans' feel the same way then THEY will stop being a bioware customer. This will cause Bioware to lose money. In turn they will then realize they have to make the art the customer wants. I am OK with this arrangement.

This is how many people who are upset over the ending feel. The mass effect 3 ending Ruined the otherwise good art. Therefore as a customer I have lost faith in Bioware.

You've completely contradicted yourself here. According to you, the people angry with Bioware don't want a new ending, they're simply going to exercise their right to not buy their next game. Except the whole point about the Retake movement was that people were telling Bioware they would be perfectly happy to pay for a new ending. Which rather shoots that whole "refusing to buy" argument in the foot...

Incorrect. there is no contradiction. If bioware does not fix the ending in some way, then those people know to have less faith in bioware. So they would BUY the DLC. If it was then not adequate they would know NOT to buy future releases from Bioware.

It is not up to Bioware to make art that the customer wants. The customer wants a million contradictory things. It is up to Bioware to make the game they want, and it is up to you to decide whether you want to buy it or not.

Correct. You understand completely. Now if the art THEY want is not what the customer wants they lose business.

Truly, more bullshit around a single issue I have never seen in a game...

this is also true. It is a shame a game with such high aspirations failed in the end. Not as a commercial endeavor as it generated lots of money for Bioware, but as a customer relations issue. Perhaps they will recover their image with a good DLC this summer.

 

[Danz D Man]

When did BioWare lie? Can someone point me to an actual official advertisement where they said "no ABC ending"? I don't see a false advertising case here. I can see maybe someone from BioWare said that it wouldn't happen, but that doesn't mean it was advertised.

 

[DugMachine]

This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

You're not helping by calling him out on him being a troll multiple times and adding nothing to this conversation except "delete your account." While yes, he started in a trollish type way to get attention i'm sure, he brings up a few valid points which are worth a read, just like all the other posts here. Only posts that annoyed me in this entire thread are you calling him a troll.

 

[fozzy360]

I love this. I just could not stop laughing when I first read this. I just knew that this would rile up folks on both sides, and oh boy, rile them up it has. Of course, there's probably nothing that can be done legally speaking, but when you have the BBB taking you down a peg, then you know things just aren't going in your favor.

I'd like to believe the rumor that Hudson had locked himself away from the rest of the writing team with Drew Karpyshyn, because it's the only thing that makes any real sense. If that were true, then I do feel bad for those guys because they're getting a good chunk of the hate for this, but I don't feel bad for Hudson, Karpyshyn, or EA for the glorious mess they made for themselves here.

On the one hand, I really shouldn't be relishing all this, but, on the other, I just keep coming back for more. Maybe it's because this will hopefully lead to the notion that endings are incredibly important and won't be treated as something trivial to be completed at the last moment. Come to think of it, isn't that kind of interesting? We want games to become something on the same level as films and books, but when something like ME3 comes along and stumbles at the end, there are those of us willing to turn a blind eye to it and claim "Well, it's about the journey, not the destination." If we want games to evolve to a place above where they are now, then we need to call out bad endings that come close to destroying what's come before. There have been many games with bad endings, and though ME3 is particularly special because the marrative depends on player decisions, we should call out bad endings, especially when it comes to cases like ME3. God, I hope I'm making sense.

tl;dr, This is hilarious, I feel sorta bad, let's call out bad endings especially with incidents like ME3.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

This makes me want to scream. Entitled douchebags, all of you. No arguments, deep down you all know its true.

trolls are in no way welcome on the escapist. Please delete your account and never return, thank you.

You're cool. Last I checked, I was just as welcome to express my opinion as you or any other member of the Escapist community. Thank you.

you said something you knew would upset people in as insulting a way as possible in a thread that's about a legal FACT. ERGO you are a troll so delete your account and leave the escapist, thank you

The fact that this story had to be written upsets me. The "retakers" upset me. If they can say what they want to, I should be able to as well. And nobody is going to delete their account because some douche on the forums tells them to, so you can stop telling me to at any point.

this is a game news site you find news here you don't like it, go elsewhere. But the main fact is that this thread isn't about the "retakers" its about the legal fact of promising something then not doing it. that combined with the vastly insulting way in which you chose to express an otherwise perfectly valid point of view is what makes me say you are a troll and not the kind of person that belongs on the escapist. its the kind of thing you find on YouTube an immature and insulting way of saying an otherwise reasonable point of view. it is therefore easy to see that you are a troll who is at this very moment giggling as i foolishly reply again and again so i say again, go elsewhere. thank you

I'm not going to lie and say that I'm not giggling (now). Trolling was not my purpose, though. Granted, I should have taken some time to cool down before my initial comments, but my sentiments are the same.

 

[AnarchistAbe]

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

This, good sir, is an entirely different thread altogether! Irrational? Gearbox? Ubisoft Montreal? Blizzard? Valve? Mojang? I love me some Bethesda, but they are farrr from the only quality developer left.

 

[medv4380]

Dangnabbit, just when I thought the Mass Effect stuff was winding down after the DLC announcement... Confound you government!

But in all serious, despite the fact that I was getting annoyed with the fan reactions and the hundreds of ME3 threads after a while, I am REALLY curious to see how Bioware and/or EA are going to respond to this, especially since they've appeared to have blown off most of the responses from people up until now.

FYI. The BBB isn't a government entity. That's why it's website if bbb.org and not bbb.gov

A BBB complaint is only worth while if people use the site to look up a companies reputation. In my opinion it's better as a Business to Business transactions or large purchases like car dealers. Also being a BBB member given you some easy connections as a Business since some people wont do business unless they can look up your BBB rep.

In this case a game company is hurt more by metacritic complains than by BBB complaints.

 

[Eggsnham]

Oh my God.

Get. Over. It.

ME3 was a disappointment to many people, and there could have been a lot more done with it.

Welcome to videogames.

 

[grumpymooselion]

Hhmmmm . . . for two games, while there have been 'some' games, people at large still seemed to enjoy the Mass Effect series, yes? I know I did. So they felt automatically that the third would be worth buying. I know I did. And, as a result, some 'seem' to feel regret for the purchase. I know that the PC player doesn't have much of an option to return a game, and get a refund, for a product they're disappointed in.

There's a little bit more wiggle room with Consoles, but I've noticed with the, "New Purchase" Locked Content Codes, that game stores in my area are less and less willing to allow for returns.

-

Let's address something else though. I am curious, how does a consumer decide whether want to buy a game or not these days? Think about it for a bit, and don't go for the obvious answers. Reviews? I question a lot of reviews these days, since the industry has very real, proven practices that put most any review source that receives pre-release review copies under some scrutiny.

I know some of you will scoff at that, but look at IGNs pre-release video review. Notice anything funny about it, now that you've actually played the game? I don't mean that he praised the endings, which he did. Toss his view on the endings out the window, and look earlier in the review.

The IGN reviewer is reviewing Mass Effect 3, as you go through his review, and talking about/reviewing things that aren't there at all, in the final game. As an example, he's talking about Shepard's Trial on Earth, as if it were in the game and something you experienced, during the review. It's not in the game.

If you were to have seen that review, prior to getting the game, wouldn't you be wondering what was going on? I know I was, because I didn't know when I first started up ME3 that the trial wasn't there anymore. I'd seen the IGN video review, before picking up ME3, and it just surprised the heck out of me. He was literally review parts of the game that were not in the game at all.

-

Another bone I have to pick are "perfect" review scores, not just in reference to ME3, but in reference to 'any' game. Have any of you ever played a game that was "literally" without flaw, that you could call perfect? I know I haven't, not once. There are games I love, but I've never seen a game that lacked flaws entirely.

Mass Effect 3, I like, honestly, maybe I have some issues with certain aspects of it, that I can say, but I don't hate it. It's just not the best game I've ever played, that doesn't mean it's trash. However, it has very real bugs, very real mechanical and graphical missteps that even some of these supposed "perfect score" givers mention. If you can identify actual flaws in a game, and still give it a perfect score . . . I question your integrity as a reviewer, and that's exactly what I saw from a good deal of these Perfect Score reviews I came across.

-

So I'm not sure I know how to buy a game anymore, because I'm not sure I trust reviews to be honest or even accurate. I've seen EA and Bioware both cite review scores as a defense to some of the player feedback to ME3, and they've noted how high the scores were. Is anyone else bothered by the fact that part of their defense points to reviews like these?

-

IGN themselves are very questionable lately, and you'll see IGN people defending EA-Bioware left and right, more notably, you'll see IGN people outright insult players that didn't like the game. I saw one IGN personality call people that didn't like the game, "Entitled" . . . and it bothered me, but I didn't know why at first. Then I looked back at that video review, that seemed to be reviewing some things that weren't in the game, and it hit me. I doubt anyone will ever be able to prove it though.


Still . . . I suppose that's just me. Oh well.

 

[roushutsu]

Dangnabbit, just when I thought the Mass Effect stuff was winding down after the DLC announcement... Confound you government!

But in all serious, despite the fact that I was getting annoyed with the fan reactions and the hundreds of ME3 threads after a while, I am REALLY curious to see how Bioware and/or EA are going to respond to this, especially since they've appeared to have blown off most of the responses from people up until now.

FYI. The BBB isn't a government entity. That's why it's website if bbb.org and not bbb.gov

A BBB complaint is only worth while if people use the site to look up a companies reputation. In my opinion it's better as a Business to Business transactions or large purchases like car dealers. Also being a BBB member given you some easy connections as a Business since some people wont do business unless they can look up your BBB rep.

In this case a game company is hurt more by metacritic complains than by BBB complaints.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Mournblade94]

It seems only Bethesda can deliver quality now.

This, good sir, is an entirely different thread altogether! Irrational? Gearbox? Ubisoft Montreal? Blizzard? Valve? Mojang? I love me some Bethesda, but they are farrr from the only quality developer left.

Your right. I have to agree.

 

[ElPatron]

Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

guaranteedreplies.jpg

I give you 4/10 but it's still too obvious. You need to be subtle.

snip

I subscribe to everything in this post.

 

[Agayek]

I love this. I just could not stop laughing when I first read this. I just knew that this would rile up folks on both sides, and oh boy, rile them up it has. Of course, there's probably nothing that can be done legally speaking, but when you have the BBB taking you down a peg, then you know things just aren't going in your favor.

I'd like to believe the rumor that Hudson had locked himself away from the rest of the writing team with Drew Karpyshyn, because it's the only thing that makes any real sense. If that were true, then I do feel bad for those guys because they're getting a good chunk of the hate for this, but I don't feel bad for Hudson, Karpyshyn, or EA for the glorious mess they made for themselves here.

Actually, Karpyshyn didn't do any work on ME3. He left Bioware right after TOR was finished. The rumor is that Hudson and Mac Walters (who took over for Karpyshyn as lead writer) locked themselves in a closet and hammered out the ending while completely ignoring the outline/story-guide that Karpyshyn left behind and the rest of the writing team.

I do agree with you though, you just need to replace Karpyshyn with Walters.