BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
I would. I remember Peter Molyneux claiming that in Fable 2 the world would be vastly different based on your choices and that another player could drop in via co-op and see a completely different world from their own.Gatx said:
"foregone conclusion" was my captcha, nice.
Very interesting, things could get really bad for EA here especially seeing as the people making the complaints have generally not taken the "clarification of the ending" offer as an actual solution and the fires have continued.
The BBB is not a goverment agency but it does have a lot of power, largely because of the organized pressure it can put on companies via their distributers, the information they release, and other things they can do. They have literally decimated businesses, including some pretty big ones in the past. Truthfully I am surprised they agreed with this since digital products/games are a bit outside of what they generally handle.
At the very least the expert opinion of the BBB is going to probably influance the FTC which CAN take action on these grounds assuming the guys bringing the complaints decide to referance this (and they would be stupid not to) the BBB being experts who have been around for a verrrry long time, and exist for exactly this kind of thing. This means EA might very well be getting slammed by some huge penelties, even if it takes a year or two for this to all be sorted out (the wheels of justice move slowly). That "lulzeworthy" legal complaint just grew a nasty pair of fangs, since the BBB does know this area of law and how it's supposed to work (it's their thing).
I'll also say that it remains to be seen what action the BBB is going to take, it can be slow, but I wouldn't be shocked if we wind up seeing a lot of retailers start pulling EA/Bioware products from their shelves, and perhaps even a drop in stock price if the BBB starts calling EA/Bioware a bunch of liars in their distributed literature (where they review companies and such).
Don't expect the sky to fall tomorrow, but the BBB tends to carry more weight for more people than say your typical complaint about something being "racially insensitive" or potentially "bigoted towards homosexuals" and other divisive issues. If the BBB decides to actually start blasting companies like Gamestop, Wal*Mart, Target, or various digital distributors for being crooks by helping push the products of crooks... rather than fight the trend and wind up losing in a case like this when other people notice the press, they are going to comply. It won't be played out entirely in public, but don't be surprised that if EA doesn't satisfy the ME3 "Line" at least enough to end the rage, if say some Christmas you have a hard time finding EA's newest releases on the shelves of major retailers.
The big issue here of course is what the BBB can do digitally. Generally speaking there isn't much they are going to do to EA's own platform (Origin), but it does mean that if EA decides it wants to release more through other platforms again, they might find companies like STEAM hardly waiting for them with open arms given that this is yet more baggage they bring with them.
Time will tell, but this is potentially a big deal, the BBB is one of the best allies you can have in something like this.
The BBB is not a goverment agency but it does have a lot of power, largely because of the organized pressure it can put on companies via their distributers, the information they release, and other things they can do. They have literally decimated businesses, including some pretty big ones in the past. Truthfully I am surprised they agreed with this since digital products/games are a bit outside of what they generally handle.
At the very least the expert opinion of the BBB is going to probably influance the FTC which CAN take action on these grounds assuming the guys bringing the complaints decide to referance this (and they would be stupid not to) the BBB being experts who have been around for a verrrry long time, and exist for exactly this kind of thing. This means EA might very well be getting slammed by some huge penelties, even if it takes a year or two for this to all be sorted out (the wheels of justice move slowly). That "lulzeworthy" legal complaint just grew a nasty pair of fangs, since the BBB does know this area of law and how it's supposed to work (it's their thing).
I'll also say that it remains to be seen what action the BBB is going to take, it can be slow, but I wouldn't be shocked if we wind up seeing a lot of retailers start pulling EA/Bioware products from their shelves, and perhaps even a drop in stock price if the BBB starts calling EA/Bioware a bunch of liars in their distributed literature (where they review companies and such).
Don't expect the sky to fall tomorrow, but the BBB tends to carry more weight for more people than say your typical complaint about something being "racially insensitive" or potentially "bigoted towards homosexuals" and other divisive issues. If the BBB decides to actually start blasting companies like Gamestop, Wal*Mart, Target, or various digital distributors for being crooks by helping push the products of crooks... rather than fight the trend and wind up losing in a case like this when other people notice the press, they are going to comply. It won't be played out entirely in public, but don't be surprised that if EA doesn't satisfy the ME3 "Line" at least enough to end the rage, if say some Christmas you have a hard time finding EA's newest releases on the shelves of major retailers.
The big issue here of course is what the BBB can do digitally. Generally speaking there isn't much they are going to do to EA's own platform (Origin), but it does mean that if EA decides it wants to release more through other platforms again, they might find companies like STEAM hardly waiting for them with open arms given that this is yet more baggage they bring with them.
Time will tell, but this is potentially a big deal, the BBB is one of the best allies you can have in something like this.
It's been said before, but I hope this will cool Peter Molyneux's jets. I'm all for game devs trying to be be visionary or innovative, but don't you tell me a single game will revolutionize the entire industry. Especially when your last games failed to do so.
I mean, Molyneux is a decent enough designer, but as a PR person? He needs to swap a couple superlatives and try and use a little thing called honesty, once in a while. I'm not expecting every other game that comes out to be the Second Coming of the Flying Spaghetti Monster; I'm just expecting every other game to be decent and simple fun.
*sighs* If only the shareholders were gamers... If only the big-heads at EA or Activision actually cared instead of expecting the next quarterly statement and predictions for the sales of the newest inflated AAA title, we'd maybe get decent products. Not only that, but it might decrease the industry's propensity to use hyperbole to sell its stuff.
I mean, Molyneux is a decent enough designer, but as a PR person? He needs to swap a couple superlatives and try and use a little thing called honesty, once in a while. I'm not expecting every other game that comes out to be the Second Coming of the Flying Spaghetti Monster; I'm just expecting every other game to be decent and simple fun.
*sighs* If only the shareholders were gamers... If only the big-heads at EA or Activision actually cared instead of expecting the next quarterly statement and predictions for the sales of the newest inflated AAA title, we'd maybe get decent products. Not only that, but it might decrease the industry's propensity to use hyperbole to sell its stuff.
You know what's killing me is that BioWare keeps saying "We're listening." in one breath and in the other "We completely disagree and stand by our product." over and over again. The subtext seems to me from those two statements they reuse is "We're listening to your complaining and are releasing extended cut so you might be quiet about this, even though we think our customers are wrong.". Which is simply insulting. I really don't understand why Bioware thinks to compromise their integrity is to give the fans what they want. Well if they keep that up they won't have as many fans to compromise their integrity over after this madness.
This whole discussion has been going on since the games release. This is no longer about the series and creators integrity but maintaining the brand image of Bioware which by anyones measure is suffering immensely from this whole debacle.
ALSO I wish you people would stop calling each other whiners and such, it's childish way of arguing any topic and only hurts your position in my opinion. For people just wanting it to end it inflames emotions and for people that defend bioware it only causes people that disagree with you to shut out the rest of things you say when you insult them in such a way, even IF you have a actual point.
This whole discussion has been going on since the games release. This is no longer about the series and creators integrity but maintaining the brand image of Bioware which by anyones measure is suffering immensely from this whole debacle.
ALSO I wish you people would stop calling each other whiners and such, it's childish way of arguing any topic and only hurts your position in my opinion. For people just wanting it to end it inflames emotions and for people that defend bioware it only causes people that disagree with you to shut out the rest of things you say when you insult them in such a way, even IF you have a actual point.
It's pretty cool how corporations have convinced everyone that asking for what you want to spend your money on as a customer is 'whining' or something derogatory.
I mean it's really convenient for them to be able to just do whatever they want, and if people don't like it they get told they are being stupid for having an opinion or criticising anything.
I feel like there is a war against critical thinking and critical thinking is losing...
Also, I have to give props to IGN and the other game news/media outlets for spinning this whole thing so that anyone who criticises BioWare's work is attacking the artistic integrity of the medium as we know it.
They are really earning those EA dollars! Also I wonder which IGN contributor will have a role in their next game? Must be so great having people in your pocket
I mean it's really convenient for them to be able to just do whatever they want, and if people don't like it they get told they are being stupid for having an opinion or criticising anything.
I feel like there is a war against critical thinking and critical thinking is losing...
Also, I have to give props to IGN and the other game news/media outlets for spinning this whole thing so that anyone who criticises BioWare's work is attacking the artistic integrity of the medium as we know it.
They are really earning those EA dollars! Also I wonder which IGN contributor will have a role in their next game? Must be so great having people in your pocket
already on the official ME3 forum people are upset about this move of bioware and their behavior and also said they will not get a bioware game again. the fans are also complaining why bioware extends this ending instead changing it.Scorpid said:
but bioware just claims they want to protect the artistic view, which is just stupid. how can a non sense ending be seen as art?
its like you buy a car without windows and the factory doenst want to put in windows because it might destroy their view of design. and then wondering why people complain.
also agree about the name calling. people spend a lot of money in these games (collector editions) including DLCs, tones of hours of game play, making decisions and then the ending just ignores all of this. and then you guys are wondering why we are upset about it.
I was going to post something about the ending here but the sheer amount of hyperbole (and hyperbolic metaphors) on both sides of the argument is making my brain hurt.
On-topic: the topic here focuses on the dangers of false advertising and where the line is drawn. I think they have a point, but using absolutes in our language to advertise and promote is so in-grained into our media that we start to forget the problems that occur when people start keeping companies to their literal word and the whole thing is construed as a lie.
On-topic: the topic here focuses on the dangers of false advertising and where the line is drawn. I think they have a point, but using absolutes in our language to advertise and promote is so in-grained into our media that we start to forget the problems that occur when people start keeping companies to their literal word and the whole thing is construed as a lie.
if only we could harness the Mass Effect rage, we could power a planet! Seriously though, this is how us Starwars fans feel about Lucas. Welcome to the party ME fans
Except as far as I know most ME fans are also Star Wars fans. Still a Star Wars fan despite the changes. Can't really call myself and ME fan anymore. After the shoddy ending, my enthusiasm for anything that happens in that universe waned. Can't say I am excited about the possibly of ME4 like I was BEFORE ME3 was released. I even stopped reading the comic. I just don't really care.Evil Smurf said:
They were careless with their last novel, it was a serious disappointment. Then they got careless with their sophomoric philosophy ending. I think the writers for ME3 overestimated their skill.
Remember the crucifix in the Jar of urine? Right here on escapist was the artist that used a toilet with different grades of urine to create Iron Man. That was all considered art.Metalrocks said:
I have little sympathy for Bioware calling their ending art. The ending did NOT fit with the artistic vision of Mass Effect unless they intended that twist as M Night Shalamalan intends the twist for his movie. Like him they make the mistake of thinking the twist clever.
I think they tried an ending like 2001 a Space Odyssey. If they did they managed it with the quality of a High School Play rendition. Their artistic integrity is admirable. But if that is the art they will laughingly defend, I have lots of entertainment to spend money on, I don't need bioware's sophomoric visions.
Less QQ, more pew pew
Honestly! Fans didn't even get this pissy when Mega Man Legends 3 was canceled.
I hope you're all happy. You not only made a developer change their work as they saw it, but you all just made a publisher realize they can do exactly this and make money off of it.
ALL OF YOU who ***** about SFxTekken, RE5's online, or re-releases of SFIV and UMvC3: congratulations! You justified it. You justified it to the publisher. Now, devs don't need to care about what's on the disc. They don't even have to give us a full game now at launch. They can end it our $60 disc adventure half way through and cut to a black screen mid boss battle that says 'please insert 800 Microsoft points.'
You're all WORSE than the Sonic fanbase.
EDIT:
I want to remind everyone here to a fact I find rather small and obvious, but here goes:
MOST OF THE BEST VIDEO GAMES OF ALL TIME HAVE HORRIBLE ENDINGS THAT AREN'T EVEN WORTH WATCHING ON YOUTUBE
Game endings sucks. Sonic endings are boring, Ocarina of Time retcons itself, Super Mario Bros 3's ending is Peach TEASING you, Bioshock's ending was awful, Deus Ex: HR's ending was the same for every choice, and Fallout 3 KILLED YOU. Let's not forget the endings to MMX, Shenmue, Fable, Mega Man Legends 2, and seriously just every game I can think of outside of a very few special cases Half-Life and Shadow of the Colossus.
Honestly! Fans didn't even get this pissy when Mega Man Legends 3 was canceled.
I hope you're all happy. You not only made a developer change their work as they saw it, but you all just made a publisher realize they can do exactly this and make money off of it.
ALL OF YOU who ***** about SFxTekken, RE5's online, or re-releases of SFIV and UMvC3: congratulations! You justified it. You justified it to the publisher. Now, devs don't need to care about what's on the disc. They don't even have to give us a full game now at launch. They can end it our $60 disc adventure half way through and cut to a black screen mid boss battle that says 'please insert 800 Microsoft points.'
You're all WORSE than the Sonic fanbase.
EDIT:
I want to remind everyone here to a fact I find rather small and obvious, but here goes:
MOST OF THE BEST VIDEO GAMES OF ALL TIME HAVE HORRIBLE ENDINGS THAT AREN'T EVEN WORTH WATCHING ON YOUTUBE
Game endings sucks. Sonic endings are boring, Ocarina of Time retcons itself, Super Mario Bros 3's ending is Peach TEASING you, Bioshock's ending was awful, Deus Ex: HR's ending was the same for every choice, and Fallout 3 KILLED YOU. Let's not forget the endings to MMX, Shenmue, Fable, Mega Man Legends 2, and seriously just every game I can think of outside of a very few special cases Half-Life and Shadow of the Colossus.
Oh, good oneKevlar Eater said:
On Topic: I don't care anymore. I already beat the game, and I doubt anything will let me forget the disappointing ending I saw (the first time). Bioware already said they are proud of what they did (I can't see why) and that they will NOT make new endings. So yeah, Mass Effect is over, waiting for Diablo 3 now.
Actually they did, I saw a ton of rage and people completely throwing off Capcom entirely after that among other things. The twitter page was flaming.DigitalAtlas said:
Also I have no idea what you're trying to argue with this paragraph, and like many people in this thread you're generalizing the whole issue via strawman tactics.DigitalAtlas said:
DigitalAtlas said:
Yes and? That doesn't make ME3's ending acceptable, if people find the ending bad they complain it's that simple. There are plenty of people who have distinguished the good aspects of games from the bad.
For fans of Bioware, the story is the thing that keeps them attached. Myself after ME2 felt that Bioware was the one the last bastions of good Western Storytelling in videogames.
Finally, an intellectual willing to discuss this with me.
As for story, there are tons of games that exist for the sake of story and only story. Alan Wake did nothing BUT advertise story. Warren Spector does nothing but talk about creating a story within his games.
What we forget is, most of these games are great and it's the experience that makes it all worth it despite the fact most of these games have horrendous stories and/or endings.
Again, look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The endings were terrible. Hell, the story even got incredibly off-track. I see no amazon or publisher refunds for open games. Gears of War 3 was a trilogy that started with a seemingly interesting story to tell, and we got nothing throughout all three games. Then there was God of War 3, a trilogy advertising a Greek tragedy for a narrative, and it ended up retconning itself in the final moments.
Story is only one aspect of the game and complaining that "OH MAN! THAT STORY WAS SO GREAT UNTIL THE ENDING THAT CAME THREE GAMES LATER! WORST STUDIO EVER! TAKE DOWN THE HIGH-SCORE REVIEWS!!!" is just nothing more than forgetting the better pieces of the game. Furthermore, bitching about it and making such a fuss is just bullying the developers. It's immature and is just the equivalent of throwing a tantrum. If you want BioWare to succeed, stop getting so angry because you're on the internet and can act in such a way. Be formal, punctual and overall, just nice and aware. It'll help BioWare in the future.
"In the sense of politeness, the Sonic fanbase is a very vocal bunch that will not shy away from letting people know how they feel if unsatisfied with their product." - Youtube LP'er.
"In the sense of politeness, the Mass Effect fanbase is a very vocal bunch that will not shy away from letting people know how they feel if unsatisfied with their product." - What needs to be said about this whole situation.
EDIT: Furthermore, if this post seems incredibly rushed and unstructured, I apologize, because it is both of those.
Yes, their was flaming and complaining. But full refunds given for opened and played games? Outcry for over a month over the audacity to actually change the ending? This is out of hand.Lovely Mixture said:
It's not simple complaints though. It's bashing, flaming, and completely putting down the studio that made these people spend $180 max to begin with. They gave the players joy beyond belief and because the fans didn't get the exact ending they wanted, they've brutalized the game- made it seem as if it's a 1/5 title. In reality, these people have forgotten what a bad game is. They're forgotten the very history of games in general and how a trilogy where your actions are carried over from game-to-game is such a huge milestone.Lovely Mixture said:
As for story, there are tons of games that exist for the sake of story and only story. Alan Wake did nothing BUT advertise story. Warren Spector does nothing but talk about creating a story within his games.
What we forget is, most of these games are great and it's the experience that makes it all worth it despite the fact most of these games have horrendous stories and/or endings.
Again, look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The endings were terrible. Hell, the story even got incredibly off-track. I see no amazon or publisher refunds for open games. Gears of War 3 was a trilogy that started with a seemingly interesting story to tell, and we got nothing throughout all three games. Then there was God of War 3, a trilogy advertising a Greek tragedy for a narrative, and it ended up retconning itself in the final moments.
Story is only one aspect of the game and complaining that "OH MAN! THAT STORY WAS SO GREAT UNTIL THE ENDING THAT CAME THREE GAMES LATER! WORST STUDIO EVER! TAKE DOWN THE HIGH-SCORE REVIEWS!!!" is just nothing more than forgetting the better pieces of the game. Furthermore, bitching about it and making such a fuss is just bullying the developers. It's immature and is just the equivalent of throwing a tantrum. If you want BioWare to succeed, stop getting so angry because you're on the internet and can act in such a way. Be formal, punctual and overall, just nice and aware. It'll help BioWare in the future.
"In the sense of politeness, the Sonic fanbase is a very vocal bunch that will not shy away from letting people know how they feel if unsatisfied with their product." - Youtube LP'er.
"In the sense of politeness, the Mass Effect fanbase is a very vocal bunch that will not shy away from letting people know how they feel if unsatisfied with their product." - What needs to be said about this whole situation.
EDIT: Furthermore, if this post seems incredibly rushed and unstructured, I apologize, because it is both of those.