Black Ops Swastika Emblems Will Earn Xbox Live Ban

[Woodsey]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

I'll refer you to this chap and leave it at that:

As I've written in a similar thread

Symbols take on the meaning that they're associated with, that's their purpose
Microsoft can't prove your intentions, they're imtrinsically known
Better just to ban it all. Want a symbol for peace or buddhism or whatever the fuck else?
Use a symbol that wasn't used in a flag of a totalitarian, racist and murderous state.
Do none exist? (doubt it)
Make one.

 

[Danny Ocean]

...Now how about a ban (or other punishment) on the countless people with a penis as their icon? (I swear, if you drink a shot every time you see that, you'll be dead of liver failure within 10 minutes.)

Hopefully they will get to that after they get rid of the swastikas. Personally, I say ban them because even though there is a meaning to them besides the Nazis, they were used by the Nazis, and that's not funny, clever or cool.

Terrorists used planes to kill people, therefore we should ban planes. Yay logic.

Fail analogy.

Some terrorists used some planes to kill some people, specifically of one nation. Planes are amazingly useful tools and serve uses other than blowing people up.

The swastika was used by 80 million people, using many tanks, planes, weapons, and such (All adorned with the symbol), to kill no less than 62 million people of all nations, a few million of which were genocidal. The symbol was and still is used by the intensely racist and nationalist, and traditionally violent, Nazi and Neo-Nazi parties. The Swastika is just a symbol, and doesn't really serve any other uses besides symbolism. As such, banning it is fine:

whatever the symbol may have meant before the 1930's, it doesn't mean that any more.

Especially in the minds of most of the populace, the swastika has only one connotation and that is with the Nazi party. You really think all these people online know that it used to be used as a good luck charm?

If expressing your love of good luck or peace matters so much to you, use the British Nuclear Disarmament symbol, or the Pax Cultura, or a white poppy, or a shamrock or any number of the other [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Poppy] symbols.

 

[Ch@Z]

What if your Buddhist?

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

Are they banned for pc players?
The dedicated servers might ban you.. but will steam?

 

[Autofaux]

...Now how about a ban (or other punishment) on the countless people with a penis as their icon? (I swear, if you drink a shot every time you see that, you'll be dead of liver failure within 10 minutes.)

I'm stuck at zero shots, and sober as a bird. You must have rotten luck with penis icons.

 

[endnuen]

It's censorship and thus it's wrong.
Also, 70% of the people who play CoD:BlObs dosen't even know that there ever were a world war, let alone two.

Seriously though, any form for censoring is bad.

 

[Loonerinoes]

I'd say only one reply is worth making to Stephen Toulouse's statement:

"SIEG HEIL, MEIN FUHRER!"

Because the irony is, that by putting his foot down on this in such a manner, I'm sooner getting the very images that he's trying to ban.

 

[MR.Spartacus]

What about the PS3 version though? Will they face the same consequences? It's really annoying that people find that amusing. Though they should go after all the phallic nonsense too.

 

[jmorourke80]

Hang on... haven't older CoD games actually featured Nazis? Weren't those Nazis wearing their swastikas?

So how is it suddenly offensive that actual players can wear a swastika when computer controlled opponents have been getting away with it for years?

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

Wait, so they ban you for a swastika... what about all the people who go around with other vulgar emblems?
Do they get banned? Do they even get a warning and a slap on the wrist?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I think they made the right call.

 

[Rensenhito]

You know, that's actually the best-thought-out argument against the display of swastikas I think I've ever read. He's kind of right about this, you guys: Xbox Live simply and intrinsically doesn't allow for the depth of communication necessary to dodge the Nazi bullet.
And everyone using the arguments about dick emblems - Dicks didn't kill millions of people.
....

No, dicks helped create BILLIONS of people. *Rimshot*.

In seriousness, Let me get this straight; Treyarch and every other World War 2 game in existence is allowed to plaster the swastika everywhere they can, and yet players can't have it as their emblem?

I'm not condoning the act, which is quite clearly showing off, but comeon, be logical. This is censorship for censorships sake.

It's a question of context, really. The logic in this apparent double-standard is that Treyarch can show the swastika in their games because Treyarch is applying it appropriately as a storytelling tool instead of plastering it up for the specific purpose of inciting anger. You must admit that hardly anyone who used the swastika emblem online did so to make any sort of groundbreaking point about the symbol's meaning. Most of them were just trolling for trolling's sake.

 

[Choppaduel]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

what are they thinking? every time you see a swastika the Nazi's win?

whats inherently wrong with 8 line segments in an arrangement?

I'm afraid I don't follow. Is it my wording?

you don't follow, not because you don't see the connection between what I wrote and what you wrote, but because there isn't one. Its a non sequitur. I designed this method of incorporating random quotes so that at least one person would actually read what I had to say, my post being on page ~5 and all)

thanks for reading and I;'m sorry if I've wasted your time.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

One, I think Stephen Toulouse is only talking about swastikas because those are considered to have multiple meanings and there is a need to clarify that it violates the terms of use. There is no non-obscene meaning for a penis or animals having sex so there is no need to clarify that those will get you banned.
Two, while there are other equally tragic incidents in human history, the swastika is the only symbol that was used to directly represent the racism. Stalin was a horrible human being, but the hammer and sickle were never their to represent just him and his genocide, but was a symbol of communism and the Soviet Union. Similarly, while Andrew Jackson committed genocide against the Native Americans, the American flag is not representative of Andrew Jackson or his beliefs, it represents the United States. The swastika as a symbol for the Nazi Party is intrinsically connected to anti-semitism and the Holocaust.
Third, while I am entirely supportive of free speech and open discussion, Xbox Live is not the place for discussion. First of all, it is a private system, so your speech rights do not extend there. You do not have to be on Xbox Live, you do not have some natural rights to do whatever you want on Xbox Live. You have to play by Microsoft's rules. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. More importantly though, Xbox Live, as Toulouse points out, is inherently not capable of having historical and political discussion. It is there primarily as a gaming network. You are most likely not going to go there to discuss your opinion on the societal treatment towards the swastika. You are going to use Xbox Live to play slayer. As such, having a swastika as your emblem is not going to inform anyone of anything other than you support something that the swastika means, and like it or not, the most common answer to many in the world is the Nazi Party, who are a racist organization. As a side note, I am willing to bet the vast majority if not the entirety of people who had a swastika in their emblem before this announcement had it not because there is multiple meanings behind it, but because it is a quickly recognized symbol of racism and they were being immature and not really seeking discussion anyway.

Nice. Very nice. I salute you.

 

[instantbenz]

Stupid Nazis. Why did you have to ruin the swastika for everyone else?

They didn't. The people that refuse to see it as anything other than a Nazi symbol ruin it for everyone else.

Indeed, it is the association that kills it.

On a side note, my CODblop logo is the coheed and cambria keywork ... I sadly only have enough coin for 6 circles ... and inverted triangles are tough

 

[Choppaduel]

You know, that's actually the best-thought-out argument against the display of swastikas I think I've ever read. He's kind of right about this, you guys: Xbox Live simply and intrinsically doesn't allow for the depth of communication necessary to dodge the Nazi bullet.
And everyone using the arguments about dick emblems - Dicks didn't kill millions of people.
...
Not to say the Nazis weren't dicks. They were.
To be more accurate, images of the human penis, while they might not be the greatest thing to stumble across online, aren't associated with the torture and murder of innocent human beings. In fact, in the whole of symbolism, I'd say the Nazi swastika is the only emblem that is associated therewith.

Dicks have raped billions of people over longer periods than you or I can envision. just sayin

 

[Choppaduel]

typical pandering to the politically correct crowd, nothing new or interesting here.

Not even news worthy imo

 

[Baldry]

...But what about if my views match that of the nazi party? Hell what about if i'm a nazi! THINK OF THE LITTLE PEOPLE!

I'm sure they're worse things on CoD and that a majority of the people playing it are not about to be offended by the swastika.

 

[Lord Kloo]

This coming from the company which makes games about Nazis and has had swastikas in it games... Hmmm.. And also is this the end for any symbol that is connected to killing of any kind, that includes the entire game.. Ban weapons, there's the answer.

 

[Fasckira]

"If you think the swastika symbol should be re-evaluated by societies all over the Earth, I think that's great. Your Xbox Live profile or in game logo, which doesn't have the context to explain your goal, is not the right place to do that."

That quote sums it up perfectly. To be bluntly honest, anyone who makes a swastika in the game is doing deliberately to get a rise but will happily play innocent when questioned, referencing the original meaning and so on. This quote above hits the nail on the head though.