Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans

[Owyn_Merrilin]

This is pretty much the way I look at it. When it comes to casting, either for theater or film, looking the part is a big part of it. In my highschool play, Tiny Tim wound up being taller than his own father, because of the way the part was cast. While it worked, it was because we played it with a sense of humor, and also because, you know, it was a highschool play. But can anyone here honestly say they could handle a straight-faced Hollywood adaptation of A Christmas Carol with a six foot tall Tiny Tim? As far as race goes, if it's an integral part of the character, I'm sorry, but people who don't match the description probably shouldn't apply. Would people start complaining about racism if a black man were turned down for the role of Adolf Hitler in World War II movie? What about having Martin Luther King Jr. played by a white man in a movie about the civil rights era? At some point, you have to accept that looking the part does factor in to casting decisions, and there's nothing racist about it.

As I said above, I very much agree, but Thor and friends are pretty much aliens, and not hovering above the clouds of Scandinavia, which is why they got away with it. This isn't based on Norse Mythology, it's based on Marvel lore.

Well yes, this particular case has a built in justification. However, the stink raised over the dark skinned hobbit was completely silly, as was making the Avatar movie with an all white cast. Also, somebody mentioned the recent BBC adaptation of Robin Hood. While I understand that part of the myth is that Robin fought in the crusades, I agree with the person who said it was odd that Friar Tuck of all people was black; okay, fine, you got a Saracen to join your band. Why is he a Christian priest, again?

Edit: Point being, I hope what the actor said about future roles that are specifically made for a given race being given to members of other races doesn't come true, at least not on a wide scale, because it's silly political correctness at the expense of accurate casting, and it goes deeper than race; as I said, 6 foot tall Tiny Tim.

 

[Traun]

Its the black Hobbit fiasco all over again.
Fans just get very attached to the source material.

They made a movie about the Argonauts when Orpheus was black.

As you can see there is a point where things like that must stop. Race has nothing to do with this, source materials are important( especially when they are grounded in certain ethos and culture, depicting some time period). What, are we going to have a black guy portrait Ceaser next? A Chinese playing George Washington? White guy as the Yellow Emperor? Imagine what would happen if someone casted a white guy as Martin Luther King.

That being said - comic books are a strange bird to begin with, I thought comic fans are able to accept anything at this point.

 

[roostuf]

i saw the film last night, and it was ok.

but come on, are people reeaally bitchin' about the only black in the movie even though he is a token.

 

[Black Watch]

I highly doubt I would ever see Gerard Butler play Shaka Zulu in a movie... Until I do, I have a problem with this.

 

[octafish]

I don't really give a shit about a black person acting in a movie, not against it racially at all, but I gotta say, I hate to see source material altered just so they could say "hey, look, our cast has a token black guy!". If they're casting an actor because of his skin color, then that IS the definition of racism, whether he's black or white.

Except he's Idris Elba, from Ultraviolet (BBC TV), The Wire, Luther, American Gangster and The Losers. The man is a superstar in the making, and Kenneth Branagh was lucky to have him in the cast.

 

[Logan Westbrook]

'..we need to talk about it...' I've been on videogame websites for years now and it's always that same fucking lame line. Stop talking and do something about it. Besides, I don't think anybody on gaming site should have any say since the KKK has better hiring practices than you guys.

Huh? What on earth are you talking about?

 

[Jesus Phish]

I just saw the film yesterday, and I'm glad he was cast in the role. He was epic! I would have gladly watched an entire film about him without a single mention of Thor.

Agreed. He was great in the role and I thought he looked perfectly in place in a strange way. He's not just any old Asgardian, I think why cant he look a little different?

 

[Soxafloppin]

Thor didn't have a beard in the comics? Wheres the backlash about that?

I seen the film last nite and the guy did a BAD ASS job, He was intimidating and cool at the same time, Good Job Idris.

 

[ChromeAlchemist]

A black Heimdall the Norse god is just "blackwashing" and generally retarded.

A black Heimdall the alien masquerading as a God (or whatever the comic book history is) -- who cares.

It's still strange casting, but at least it's justifiable somewhat. Too bad they didn't also cast an asian or native American as a "god" as well, that'd make it a lot better to show that the Marvel Asgardians can appear as members any Race of Man.

They did.

But I guess no one noticed?

Well yes, this particular case has a built in justification. However, the stink raised over the dark skinned hobbit was completely silly, as was making the Avatar movie with an all white cast. Also, somebody mentioned the recent BBC adaptation of Robin Hood. While I understand that part of the myth is that Robin fought in the crusades, I agree with the person who said it was odd that Friar Tuck of all people was black; okay, fine, you got a Saracen to join your band. Why is he a Christian priest, again?

I like continuity far too much to set a double standard (I disliked Gyllenhaal as The Prince, because the Price was meant to be Persian), and agree with one party and disagree with another. I've only done so in the past to antagonise my friends with things such as:

Me: Why is no one in Middle Earth black?
Friends: There weren't any black people around that region in the middle ages.
Me: But it's fiction, so it shouldn't matter. If they wanted a McDonalds in Middle Earth, they could have one.

I haven't seen Friar Tuck in BBC's Robin Hood (I kept saying I'd watch it) nor was I around for the black Hobbit situation, but I imagine it was a bit jarring. I think there are enough roles out there for each race of people to act in, but I guess certain actors want to be part of fantastical roles such as this, and know the right people to make it happen.

I say if there's a loophole, then exploit it. If they somehow say that Hobbits came over from the dark continent and settled, then fine. But if colour is changed with no explanation or with no possible explanation (Avatar), then expect shit to be flung. You shouldn't mess with canon lightly.

 

[ToastedEngineer]

I'm not a fan of the marvel cannon so agree with Mr. Elba in that if it bothers you that much don't watch it.

However, from the sourcist point of view mentioned above how come the complaints of "whitewashing" in the Avatar - The Last Airbender and the supposed Akira film are met with a fairly reasoned debate about respecting the source material and Hollywood's institutionalised racism. While here the same argument of respecting source material is met with the blanket view comic book fans are racists?

For this I'm of course ignoring the truly hateful people mentioned at the end of paragraph 4 as they don't deserve being given the time of day.

 

[Harbinger_]

I'm sure that Mr. Elba is more than qualified to play Heimdall what I am disappointed in is that those working on the movie are not staying true to source material which is important when you are trying to create a movie based on a comic book based off of mythology from centuries upon centuries ago.

Yet this is how most Christians picture Jesus.

So why are you disappointed about the skin color of a secondary character of a myth that has been dead for centuries?

I didn't say I wasn't irritated with the picture you posted either. The character in the comics is white as well. Don't get me wrong I'm irritated that if I recall correctly alot of the characters in the pantheon are not being played by scandinavian actors but then again I was also irritated that the remake of Battlestar Galactica had Starbuck as female when the character was male, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

 

[Realitycrash]

As a man from Scandenavia himself, at first I was a little surprised at the choice of a black man for a Norse god, but then I realized that Samuel L Jackson was chosen to play Nick Fury, so if they could change canon there, why not here?
Besides, just by looking at that picture, I know he will kick ass.

Um mainly because the nick fury made for the 2000's was drawn and written based on SLJ
http://www.thetf.net/uploads/LordDarkstorm/2008-05-10_074029_UltimateNickFury.jpg
Ultimate nick fury in his various appearances accross hundreds of issues now.
Although since they changed the film cannon to space aliens rather than norse gods it kinda evens out to me not caring.
And ALBA did kick ass in the role.

Ultimate Nick Fury is only canon in the Ultimate Universe though, is it not so?
So unless all the other Marvel movies are based on the Ultimate Universe as well, it is still a canon-violation.

 

[Jaqen Hghar]

As an exceptionally white (read pale) Norwegian, I think I should have the last say in this.
He fit the role perfectly, wouldn't have it any other way. There.
All the "this is the Marvel canon, not the actual Scandinavian Gods canon" has been said over and over, so I'll just leave it at that.

Saw the movie last week, was awesome. One of the best things about it was Heimdall. I do hope he returns for a bit at least in the Avengers movie, which I am now really hyped to see.

 

[evilstonermonkey]

You know, a lot of the people saying it was a bad idea are giving examples of the horrible consequences such as black Julius Caesar, or Jesus with ovaries. That is something different - that is an inaccurate depiction of real, historical characters (or at least real to some - sorry Jesus). What we are talking about is the fictional reinterpretation of a fictional alien that is itself the fictional reinterpretation of Norse mythology. It doesn't matter if you believe Heimdall is truly up there looking down on us until Ragnarok, because this is not about him. This is about a person based on a person based on a story about him.

Sigh. This whole thread can be summed up thusly:
1. But Nordic Heimdall wasn't black
2. But It isn't Nordic Heimdall it's the movie Thor's Heimdall
3. Return to 1.
And I keep adding to it, to my shame.

 

[WolfThomas]

Ultimate Nick Fury is only canon in the Ultimate Universe though, is it not so?
So unless all the other Marvel movies are based on the Ultimate Universe as well, it is still a canon-violation.

Except that the movies take place in their own universe/continuity. They draw inspiration from the comics, but they are not a direct adaption of any single story. Tony Stark's hedonistic behaviour is more in line with Ultimate Iron man and Captain America's costume looks to be heavily based of the Ultimates.

 

[erbkaiser]

It's still strange casting, but at least it's justifiable somewhat. Too bad they didn't also cast an asian or native American as a "god" as well, that'd make it a lot better to show that the Marvel Asgardians can appear as members any Race of Man.

They did.

Oh cool. Thanks for the screencap, haven't seen the movie and I was under the impression that all the Asgardians were white except for Heimdall. In that case I really don't get the uproar by some fans.

 

[Realitycrash]

Ultimate Nick Fury is only canon in the Ultimate Universe though, is it not so?
So unless all the other Marvel movies are based on the Ultimate Universe as well, it is still a canon-violation.

Except that the movies take place in their own universe/continuity. They draw inspiration from the comics, but they are not a direct adaption of any single story. Tony Stark's hedonistic behaviour is more in line with Ultimate Iron man and Captain America's costume looks to be heavily based of the Ultimates.

So if Marvel has officially said that this is not part of any previous Marvel universe, how can anyone feel any sense of hurt feelings over a character being cast with a black actor?
Marvel embraces the Multiverse-theory, afterall, so this is just one where Heimdall is black..

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

A black Heimdall the Norse god is just "blackwashing" and generally retarded.

A black Heimdall the alien masquerading as a God (or whatever the comic book history is) -- who cares.

It's still strange casting, but at least it's justifiable somewhat. Too bad they didn't also cast an asian or native American as a "god" as well, that'd make it a lot better to show that the Marvel Asgardians can appear as members any Race of Man.

They did.

But I guess no one noticed?

Well yes, this particular case has a built in justification. However, the stink raised over the dark skinned hobbit was completely silly, as was making the Avatar movie with an all white cast. Also, somebody mentioned the recent BBC adaptation of Robin Hood. While I understand that part of the myth is that Robin fought in the crusades, I agree with the person who said it was odd that Friar Tuck of all people was black; okay, fine, you got a Saracen to join your band. Why is he a Christian priest, again?

I like continuity far too much to set a double standard (I disliked Gyllenhaal as The Prince, because the Price was meant to be Persian), and agree with one party and disagree with another. I've only done so in the past to antagonise my friends with things such as:

Me: Why is no one in Middle Earth black?
Friends: There weren't any black people around that region in the middle ages.
Me: But it's fiction, so it shouldn't matter. If they wanted a McDonalds in Middle Earth, they could have one.

I haven't seen Friar Tuck in BBC's Robin Hood (I kept saying I'd watch it) nor was I around for the black Hobbit situation, but I imagine it was a bit jarring. I think there are enough roles out there for each race of people to act in, but I guess certain actors want to be part of fantastical roles such as this, and know the right people to make it happen.

I say if there's a loophole, then exploit it. If they somehow say that Hobbits came over from the dark continent and settled, then fine. But if colour is changed with no explanation or with no possible explanation (Avatar), then expect shit to be flung.

Well that's just it; the Shire was basically rural England. While there was a race of hobbits that had a slightly darker complexion than the others, it was pretty clear from the description that "dark" in this case meant dark hair and tanned skin, like a medieval English peasant who worked in the fields all day. There really is no explanation for a hobbit darker than, say, Sean Connery looked in Zardoz.

Spoiler: Sean Connery in Zardoz

If you get into the details of how middle earth worked, there actually were people of color -- it's just that every last one of them was portrayed as a faceless bad guy, and they were all humans, not hobbits. They fought for Sauron in a few of the later battles. While this may not go over well with modern audiences, that is the world that Tolkien built.