Buying my first gun.

iLikeHippos

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Jan 19, 2010
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Jegsimmons said:
Move to America and buy what ever guy you so please.
Okay, that's racist.



OT; People on this thread have probably far more valid recommendations, but I would like to point this one out, regardless of its functions, pros and cons, etc;

<spoiler=Walther PPK>


It's the Walther PPK; the same handgun that James Bond have practiced with in the majority of Ian Fleming's books and films. Stay classy, and wield the gun a spy would wield.
 

BlackStar42

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WolfThomas said:
Lumber Barber said:
Be a man and buy a Musket, not the wussy guns of today.
That's not a bad suggestion, pre 1901 firearms don't require a license (though revolvers vary by state).
Probably because you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from more than 60 yards away using one, plus your rate of fire was something like 3 rpm.
 

Vern

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Sep 19, 2008
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Well, I've talked to a fellow who lives in Canada about them. I'd assume the gun laws are similar. I'd go with an SKS semi-automatic rifle, in 'restricted' countries they're limited to fixed five round magazine with a steel plate welded into the magazine so it can only accept five rounds. The factory magazines accept 10 rounds, and you can buy extended magazines up to 20, 30, or 50 rounds, but I don't think they are available in Canada or Australia. I also believe the extended magazines are illegal in those countries, plus the UK. But you can still get one with a fixed five round magazine, and they're extremely fun to shoot with.

If you're looking for a handgun, I have a personal preference towards Smith and Wesson revolvers. I own a .357 model 586 and it's performed very reliably, and it's pretty accurate for a handgun. It can also chamber .38 special. The problem I have with .38 special, and even 9mm, is that they're not particularly hard hitting rounds. Usually it'll take several rounds to kill someone, and even if you don't want to kill them it'll take several rounds to knock them down to the point where you can either escape or call the police.

Do you at all have the option of getting a .45 caliber Colt semi-automatic or a Kimber .45 semi-automatic? If so, I would go with them. Really any .45 is a decent choice for self defense. The .45 ACP is a very reliable, hard hitting round that will put a person down in one or two shots. There's a reason it was called the "door buster" during WWII. For personal defense, I would say it's your best bet. Otherwise you can get a semi-automatic in 10mm magnum, also a very powerful round, I would say better than the .45 myself, as it's a magnum cartridge and firing at a higher velocity, as long as it's a fragmentation round it'll do the job and probably better. American Arms and Glock make 10mm models I know, and there's other companies out there. However 10mm ammunition isn't as common as .45, and thus more expensive. However I've fired both .45 ACP and 10mm, and honestly I'd say the 10mm is the better round.

If you're looking for a revolver, I would go with Smith & Wesson or Ruger. And I personally use a .357 Smith and Wesson Model 586 revolver with carved "dum dum" soft tip bullets for home defense. I've never had a loading or firing problem with my revolver. I have, however, fired enough pistols, in .22. 9mm, 7.62x25, .45, and even 10mm to come to the conclusion that semi-automatic handguns, especially when firing defensive ammunition and not full metal jacket ammunition, will fail to load. I don't trust them, your mileage may vary.

But for self defense, I really wouldn't go with anything less than a .357 magnum. A .38 special doesn't cut it, they don't have enough of a powder charge behind them to stop an attacker unless you shoot them directly in the face. It may happen, but it would be an off chance. So .357, .44, 10mm, .40 .45 ACP or .45 LC. Those would work, but 9mm, or .38 special, .22LR or .380 I would not recommend if you're looking at a handgun for self defense.

So yes, there's my two cents, coming from an American who has been around firearms since he was 10, and who has worked in a store that sold and refurbished firearms, and owns 10 firearms. And some people say I have an "unhealthy fixation" on firearms, and other people say I'm a "firearm genius". It's all a matter of perspective.
 

HappyPillz

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Tazzy da Devil said:
Get a water gun, the only type of gun worth getting. Seriously, why on Earth do you want a gun?
Don't forget paintball guns! One of the best purchases I've ever made, and it's something I can actually use.

Other than that, I agree completely. I don't see why anyone outside of law enforcement or the military needs to own a gun. Unless they are legitimately hunting for food or carrying them through the bush for self defense.
 

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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Vern said:
Semi-automatics are a catergory C firearms (with a mag restriction of 10) in Australia, you need to be a primary producer (farmer) who can prove that CAT A+B firearms (pump, bolt, lever action rifles, lever and break action shotguns) aren't enough. Or a professional hunter/culler can get ONE semi-automatic with up to a 30 round mag.

With handguns you get either a sporting license (with 10round limit) or one for professional security purposes (no limit). With the sporting one you can't shoot greater than .38 without a dispensation.

Easiest thing for the OP to get would be a CAT A+B license and get a nice lever gun, bolt action rifle or double barreled shotgun.
BlackStar42 said:
Probably because you couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from more than 60 yards away using one, plus your rate of fire was something like 3 rpm.
Depends, up until recently a friend of mine's father possessed a working unregistered Mauser C96 pistol due to the loopholes that made it an antique. But some of those rifles around the turn of the century are still pretty accurate and fast to load (there's bolt and lever action rifles under that catergory), the biggest problem is how rare the ammunition is for many, and that which exists is pretty old.
 

AdamG3691

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Nov 18, 2009
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honestly, the poeople suggesting water pistols know nothing.

only super soakers will suffice :D
 

A.A.K

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Mar 7, 2009
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Yea I hate Australia's gun laws, but we make do right?
I wouldn't get a glock, but that's personal opinion. I didn't fancy the recoil and I hate the design.
Go for anything Kimber so long as it isn't dual toned :p Reliable. Legal.
CZ is also marvelous and I'm looking forward to finding a way to get a CZ 97b, otherwise a 75 SP-01 will have to do! hahaha but there's even control and recoil, fine accuracy and all that jazz.
and Beretta is always a safe bet.

Revolvers are great, but unless you're a hardcore hunter and can prove it, the government will never let you have it.
 

Rottweiler

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Jan 20, 2008
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I own a number of firearms, I teach firearms safety, and have a Curio and Relics license.

When it comes to a firearms purchase, I ask: what is this firearm for?

Starting off: you want a pistol.

What is it for? Just for screwing around and practicing? Possibly defense?

First pistol I honestly recommend- especially for first-time pistol owners- is a pistol chambered for .22 Long Rifle (.22 LR) It's got low recoil, accurate, and most of all: cheap ammo. (Pistols are pretty inexpensive, too.)

As a side note: do not- not not not- discount the .22 LR (*not* .22 Short) as a self-defense round. While it's not much in the stopping power department, it's actually far more lethal than people seem to think. High velocity combined with a soft lead bullet- a pretty heavy one for its size- make .22 LR extremely lethal to humans.

If going beyond this, or you want defense as an option, I recommend the following calibers (in order of preference):

.45 ACP
.40 S&W
.38 Special
9mm
.380 ACP

Myself, I carry a .45 ACP firearm for defense. My personal favorite is a Taurus 1911B, but there are hundreds to choose from. The round is large and subsonic, so overpenetration (going through walls) is less of an issue, but it has extremely good damage qualities and moderate recoil.

For semiautomatic pistols, there's hundreds- my suggestion is this:

1. Pick the caliber you want. Do *not* get anything larger than .45 ACP unless you intend to Hunt with it or are an experienced shooter. Caliber is the first, most important choice, because after you pick that picking a firearm chambered for it is easy. Don't pick a caliber that isn't as common as possible- if this is your first pistol, you want ammo to be cheap, easy to find, and allow you to practice as much as you want. Where I live, .45 ACP ammo is about $15 USD for a box of 50, 9mm being about $10 USD a box of 50. (.22 LR is sold in 'bricks' of 144 rounds for something like $10 US or less, you can do the math on which is cheapest to plink at cans with :) )

2. Handle the firearm you are interested in. I can't stress that enough- it doesn't matter how amazing or expensive a pistol is, if the shooter is not comfortable with it, leave it alone. Handle a variety of arms. Which one fits your hand? Don't be macho- if you have small hands, it's not a criticism; find a pistol with a smaller grip. Word of advice- don't get caught up on 'high capacity'; between 7 and 10 rounds is plenty, and you should be more concerned with placing your shots and not blazing away because you have a 14+ round magazine.

3. Check out the firearms you have handled and like online. There are thousands of sites which review just about every firearm ever made, and usually they have detailed, experienced reviews of the firearm in question. Also, don't get roped into a 'sweet deal' that might be hard to get parts for. Owning a pistol you got cheap will hurt you if no one makes magazines for it (it's happened to me more than once.)

For revolvers, the above 3 rules apply, with some specifics:

1. Again...nothing larger than .38 Special. I have lost track of the number of newer pistol owners who have come to me to train...with some god-awful piece of ironmongery capable of shooting through an engine block. No. If you are experienced and intend to hunt large animals with it, go nuts...but not for any kind of defensive purpose. I do recommend buying a revolver chambered for .357 Magnum, then using .38 Special as a carry load (the load you keep in it for defensive purposes) but .357 Magnum is, to me, heavy for defense.

Side note: .357 Magnum and .38 Special are, in effect, the same caliber. The only difference (despite the different caliber numbers) are that .357 Magnum has a longer casing, more powder, and a slightly longer, heavier bullet. A revolver chambered for .357 Magnum can be loaded with .38 Special ammunition and fire it without issues, and many people do just that so they have a heavier, sturdier pistol (the weight helps absorb recoil.)


Brands I personally endorse (and this is solely from my own experiences and that of people I trust, this is not an exhaustive list):

Semiautomatics: Colt, Taurus, Springfield Armory, Glock, Walther, Heckler and Koch, Browning (Browning Hi-Power is amazing), FN.

Brands I avoid: Smith and Wesson (great revolvers, dislike their semiautos), Beretta, Hi-Point (cheap crap)

Revolvers: Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Taurus (newer models are great), Dan Wesson
 

SlaveNumber23

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Aug 9, 2011
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Not that I know much about it but I'd recommend getting a rifle, from what I understand that here in Australia its a lot easier and takes a lot less time to get a license to own a rifle than a handgun, because of the ease in which you can conceal a handgun. Don't take my words as gospel though, do some research on getting a gun license.
 

Gaiseric

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Grant Hobba said:
I got to have my first real go with a few different hand guns, a Glock 9mm, SW .38, SW.357 magnum and the fabled SW .44 Magnum.
Sounds like my first time shooting except I used a couple shotguns too. Never used a CZ myself, but I hear great things and Smith & Wesson revolvers are excellent. I prefer semi-auto pistols, however the .357 has the advantage of being able to use both .38 Special rounds and .357 mag rounds.

My gun count is at 10:
2 Mosin Nagants(1930 +1944)
Winchester 12 gauge
H&R 16 gauge
Kel-Tec SU-16CA
Savage .22
Mauser C96 in 7.63
2 Colt Centennials
Walther P38(reproduction unfortunately)

And I'm going to teach one of my buddies to shoot this weekend.
 

Thaluikhain

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Jegsimmons said:
hmmm, lets see, protection because every single country that has outlawed or heavily restricted guns has seen an increase in violent crime while US cities are shown to have less crime when gun bans are lifted?
Yeah, the first part is flat out, completely wrong.

The second part I can get behind...what's the point in banning guns independantly in several of many US cities? Unless you were planning on building big walls around them so people couldn't get in and out, I guess. Apart from Snake Plissken.

WolfThomas said:
SmegInThePants said:
need a license for a crossbow?
Yes, sort of, in NSW (and a lot of states) you can't hunt with a crossbow, you can possess a crossbow for sporting reasons, but need to apply for a exemption permit and store it in a safe. You can hunt with a bow without a license though.
They are moving to ban crossbows throughout all Australia, which seems odd as firearms are permissable (with restrictions). I've heard different reasons for this, that they are silent compared to firearms, that they cause unecessary suffering in animals they hit, though the same would be true of bows, which aren't banned.

I think it's more because a few people were killed with them recently and turned the public against them, whilst not having the justification that rifles and shotguns do, that they are actually useful for things.

Possibly because people don't respect them, as they aren't firearms.
 

tsb247

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Rainforce said:
tsb247 said:
Tazzy da Devil said:
Get a water gun, the only type of gun worth getting. Seriously, why on Earth do you want a gun?
Really? Am I sensing the, "Guns are evil," mentality here? It certainly seems that way.
nope, probably more the "if you have a gun, you can screw up even more!" mentality.
Because humans are not known for their good handling of responsibility and power. : D

so, don't buy one. there's nothing in life that really deserves bullets.
Including you, because having a gun makes other gun owners even more nervous.

EDIT:
also this:
Trippy Turtle said:
Not worth the money really. Real men use a pipe, spark plug and any flammable liquid to make a lemon cannon.
I agree, get a real weapon, man, not some random gun ! D:
I see a few things here that make me cringe.

Nothing in life that deserves bullets? What about a paper target that is designed to be shot with bullets?

Having a firearm is indeed a responsibility, and a rather big one at that. However, I see no reason why a person should not take on that responsibility if they feel as though they can and the laws in their respective country agree that they should be able to. Again, target shooting is a perfectly legitimate hobby/sport, and collecting rare, unique, or historically relevant firearms is a legitimate hobby as well!

How does having a gun make gun owners more nervous? This sounds like the, "Paranoid gun owner," stance/steoertype, and if it is, you could not be any farther from the truth.

EDIT: Oh, and real men don't make lemon cannons... They build beer can mortars and/or spud cannons. However, I should point out that these can be FAR more dangerous and are likely to be more illegal than a firearm depending on where you live, so I wouldn't recommend building anything like these anyway. You can blow yourself up in a hurry.
 

Jegsimmons

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Nov 14, 2010
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II Scarecrow II said:
Jegsimmons said:
Tazzy da Devil said:
Get a water gun, the only type of gun worth getting. Seriously, why on Earth do you want a gun?
hmmm, lets see, protection because every single country that has outlawed or heavily restricted guns has seen an increase in violent crime while US cities are shown to have less crime when gun bans are lifted?
or because its say....pfft....a fucking gun hobby?
You're kidding right?? Despite the fact that Australia has such stringent gun laws, we also have some of the lowest gun violence. Go figure.

The US on the other has some of the highest. Who'd a thunk it??
violent crime does not always equal gun violence. learn to read.
and explain why everyone in Switzerland has an assault rifle yet has something like 34 murders while Britain has almost no guns and is more violent than the US?

Also, consider the fact that:
USA has over 300 million people
is bordered with a country that is ran by criminals
and that most gun crime is comitted by people who dont buy guns legally (black market, smuggling, stolen, ect)
AND in every city that has had a gun ban has experienced a sharp increase in crime and when congress struck down all gun bans crime in these cities started to go down, like in chicago, DC, ect.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847
 

Jegsimmons

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iLikeHippos said:
Jegsimmons said:
Move to America and buy what ever guy you so please.
Okay, that's racist.



OT; People on this thread have probably far more valid recommendations, but I would like to point this one out, regardless of its functions, pros and cons, etc;

<spoiler=Walther PPK>


It's the Walther PPK; the same handgun that James Bond have practiced with in the majority of Ian Fleming's books and films. Stay classy, and wield the gun a spy would wield.
how is that racist? America is a nationality and has a ton of guns, nothing about race was brought up!

and yes, the PPK is excellent. small magazine, but then again, only pussies shoot twice.
 

Jegsimmons

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thaluikhain said:
Jegsimmons said:
hmmm, lets see, protection because every single country that has outlawed or heavily restricted guns has seen an increase in violent crime while US cities are shown to have less crime when gun bans are lifted?
Yeah, the first part is flat out, completely wrong.

The second part I can get behind...what's the point in banning guns independantly in several of many US cities? Unless you were planning on building big walls around them so people couldn't get in and out, I guess. Apart from Snake Plissken.
OK i used hyperbole but Australia, Britain, Canada, and even japan have experienced an increase in crime since their handgun bans or introduction to gun control.
the rest of Europe may not be suffering to to being landlocked or something. but to be fair, i havent check the rest of Europe.
 

Smithburg

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May 21, 2009
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I'd say the CZ, but thats probably just my own personal dislike of the .38 special...

I just always thought, if your buying a gun it is for defense, and if you have a 38 special, you only have 6 shots, what if there are two guys in your house and they dont go down in three shots?
 

Tanner The Monotone

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Aug 25, 2010
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Grant Hobba said:
Hey guys,

I just got back from my holiday on Hamilton island, I got to have my first real go with a few different hand guns, a Glock 9mm, SW .38, SW.357 magnum and the fabled SW .44 Magnum.

I had an absolute ball and it has convinced me to purchase my first gun.

The laws are pretty stringent here (NSW Australia) so I am thinking either a CZ75 9mm, or a SW .38 special :)

what do you guys think?

do any of you own any firearms or even go shooting yourselves?
I honestly hate any sort of .38. I would go with the CZ. if you can't go any higher of a caliber. Honestly, if you can, I would go with a .40 caliber handgun. Maybe a Springfield XD.
 

Rainforce

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Apr 20, 2009
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tsb247 said:
I see a few things here that make me cringe.

Nothing in life that deserves bullets? What about a paper target that is designed to be shot with bullets?

Having a firearm is indeed a responsibility, and a rather big one at that. However, I see no reason why a person should not take on that responsibility if they feel as though they can and the laws in their respective country agree that they should be able to. Again, target shooting is a perfectly legitimate hobby/sport, and collecting rare, unique, or historically relevant firearms is a legitimate hobby as well!

How does having a gun make gun owners more nervous? This sounds like the, "Paranoid gun owner," stance/steoertype, and if it is, you could not be any farther from the truth.

EDIT: Oh, and real men don't make lemon cannons... They build beer can mortars and/or spud cannons. However, I should point out that these can be FAR more dangerous and are likely to be more illegal than a firearm depending on where you live, so I wouldn't recommend building anything like these anyway. You can blow yourself up in a hurry.
Go to war. Shoot someone. GET SHOT.
Then come back and tell me about how we need more guns in our life. DO IT.