Buying my first gun.

[Staskala]

i have sources, and if you dont like them how about a google search, you are at a PC. take advantage of that.

Also, definition of violent crime: "A violent crime or crime of violence is a crime in which the offender uses or threatens to use violent force upon the victim."

im pretty sure thats near universal.

No, it's not. Many countries only count crimes as violent if the assault actually results in injuries, some only if the injuries are at least "mild", a very small number only if the injuries could have resulted in serious bodily harm. Hence why "violent crime" is completely fucking useless to make any comparisons.

Also, even if i dont know jack shit about those countries, riddle me this, isn't it odd that a country with guns isnt nearly as violent as anti-gun activist would claim?

Because you don't even know why "everyone in Switzerland has an assault rifle"?

 

[jdun]

and explain why everyone in Switzerland has an assault rifle yet has something like 34 murders

Because if they break open the case on their government issued assault rifle for anything but their military duties then they face lengthy prison sentences.

That bullshit. If that is the case then every person in Switzerland would have gone to jail. Switzerland have their own annual national shooting where the government provide free ammo for everybody.

Switzerland have a proud tradition of taking out their rifles that the government gave to them for shooing. The rifles belong to them forever. It is pass through generations.

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/video/staring-down-the-barrel-of-switzerlands-gun-tradit.shtml

http://www.knabenschiessen.ch/htdocs/?m=index&action=view_home

To our Switzerland friends. I understand that liberals have attempted to ban guns in your country and failed. Fight back and don't give them an inch.

 

[Jegsimmons]

i have sources, and if you dont like them how about a google search, you are at a PC. take advantage of that.

Also, definition of violent crime: "A violent crime or crime of violence is a crime in which the offender uses or threatens to use violent force upon the victim."

im pretty sure thats near universal.

No, it's not. Many countries only count crimes as violent if the assault actually results in injuries, some only if the injuries are at least "mild", a very small number only if the injuries could have resulted in serious bodily harm. Hence why "violent crime" is completely fucking useless to make any comparisons.

so even using a stricter definition of violent crime, they still have an increase in violent crime and Britain still has more violent crime than the US.......what was your point?

Also, even if i dont know jack shit about those countries, riddle me this, isn't it odd that a country with guns isnt nearly as violent as anti-gun activist would claim?

Because you don't even know why "everyone in Switzerland has an assault rifle"?[/quote]

apparently for the same god damn reasons the US does, protection and foreign invaders and to build up a militia when needed.

 

[itsausernamewhatofit]

Hey guys,

I just got back from my holiday on Hamilton island, I got to have my first real go with a few different hand guns, a Glock 9mm, SW .38, SW.357 magnum and the fabled SW .44 Magnum.

I had an absolute ball and it has convinced me to purchase my first gun.

The laws are pretty stringent here (NSW Australia) so I am thinking either a CZ75 9mm, or a SW .38 special

what do you guys think?

do any of you own any firearms or even go shooting yourselves?

I own several and shoot frequently. I'm a big fan of the CZ 75 and CZ in general although I'm curious as to what model CZ 75 you were looking at (CZ 75B or pre-b). 9mm ammo is fairly inexpensive as far as handgun calibers go (at least in the states) although I love the feel of a .38 special. .38 Special ammo is significantly more expensive though. I actually really like shooting .22LR even though it's not a very large or manly caliber. I've got a CZ 452 rifle in .22LR and it's great fun to shoot. I've also got an SKS made in the 70's that's great to shoot as well, especially since surplus 7.62x39 is about the same price as 9mm and I'm more of a rifle guy anyway.

 

[itsausernamewhatofit]

The laws are pretty stringent here (NSW Australia) so I am thinking either a CZ75 9mm, or a SW .38 special

what do you guys think?

The CZ75 hands down. The CZ75 is the most accurate handgun in the world.

Although you'll probably be stuck with a "new" model since the (more accurate wood gripped) old model is super expensive collector's item now.

Either way, CZ75s are fucking awesome. Just ask Rally Vincent. ^^

Gotta love Gunsmith Cats. The original model actually didn't have wood grips, Rally installed those custom. Either way though, the original model CZ 75 is, in my opinion, the finest handgun ever made.

 

[ElPatron]

like some of these guns nuts would rage about the damn slightest adjustment to bullet diameter as if their lives depended on it.

Do you prefer to be shot with 9x19 Parabellum or 10mm Auto? 10mm Auto has more energy at 100yards than .45 ACP has at the muzzle. Choose wisely.

Do you prefer being shot with .380 ACP (9x17mm) or .357 Magnum? They practically have the same diameter.
Hint: .357 Mag will stop a bear.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Gotta love Gunsmith Cats. The original model actually didn't have wood grips, Rally installed those custom. Either way though, the original model CZ 75 is, in my opinion, the finest handgun ever made.

^^ Nice to see someone get my obscure manga references. ^^

And yes, CZ75 is indeed the finest handgun ever made.

So OP - buy one. They're fucking awesome.

If I ever buy a gun, it'll be a CZ75.

 

[Malyc]

UBERSNIP

.380 is not a puny round. It's not 9x19, but like you said you shoot until the opponent is down.

I would absolutely trust .380 if I had to stick with a PPK.


Also, I thought this was about target shooting and not self-defense?

I target shoot my handguns, but I also keep a mag loaded with self defense rounds in the gun vault with them. This is more of a "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" type of thing, as I hope I don't ever have to use that precaution.

 

[Jodah]

Hey guys,

I just got back from my holiday on Hamilton island, I got to have my first real go with a few different hand guns, a Glock 9mm, SW .38, SW.357 magnum and the fabled SW .44 Magnum.

I had an absolute ball and it has convinced me to purchase my first gun.

The laws are pretty stringent here (NSW Australia) so I am thinking either a CZ75 9mm, or a SW .38 special

what do you guys think?

do any of you own any firearms or even go shooting yourselves?

I own a number of firearms and I do have CZ75B and SW revolvers. You can't go wrong with them. I currently carrying Glock 19 as my primary conceal weapon. The Glock 19 is considered by many the best all around handgun. However in near future I think I switch to Kahr CW9 for my primary conceal carry because it smaller.

The CZ75B is a very very good pistol. It is the most cloned handgun in the world. It is a full length handgun so that means not very concealable. Let me know if you have questions on handguns.

There are a lot of gun forum on the web. I suggest you might want to take a look at AR15.com in the handgun section.

I have a Kahr CW9 as my primary conceal weapon. It's a great gun. I have it tricked out with a Crimson Trace laser sight. With proper handling it is a great gun, it is a happy medium between a full sized handgun like my Glock 22 and a pocket gun like my mom's lady smith .38 special.

The one word of advice I do have with it is if you ride the slide of your handguns you will have problems with a CW9. If the slide doesn't have 100% power to slide forward the first bullet won't feed. Even the lightest touch can cause problems if you don't let go all the way.

It does have a REALLY long trigger pull too. Obnoxiously so almost. But that is the only problem I've found with it.

I'm thinking about getting one in the very near future. Is the recoil spring standard or modified (extra strength) on your CW9?

Standard. The only thing I modified was attaching the CT sight. The slide problem seems to be common. I rode the slide a couple times when I first got it for inspection purposes and thought it was defective. Did some quick google searching though and it seems to be a common issue.

Just remembered another downside as well, additional magazines are pretty expensive.

I like it, don't get me wrong. It just has some issues, as most handguns do.

 

[itsausernamewhatofit]

Gotta love Gunsmith Cats. The original model actually didn't have wood grips, Rally installed those custom. Either way though, the original model CZ 75 is, in my opinion, the finest handgun ever made.

^^ Nice to see someone get my obscure manga references. ^^

Nice to see there is someone else in this world willing to reference Gunsmith Cats.

 

[Malyc]

How much are you willing to spend?

up to 1k,

I want a decent enough handgun to at least compensate for my in experience

In that case, definitely go with a 1911 style handgun. Trigger is damned good, especially in the more expensive examples, parts are everywhere, you can buy kits to convert them to .22 for practice shooting, they feel good in the hand, and just look damned sexy.

*Is not COMPLETELY biased, owns a Springfield XD 9mm, just likes the 1911 better.

 

[WolfThomas]

is bordered with a country that is ran by criminals

Canada isn't that bad...

However for home defense a lever action might not be a bad idea, lever actions can be manufactured to fire fire pistol cartridges such as .38, .357, and .44 magnum. But then again, I'm not sure if that would be legal in Australia without extensive papers. They're considered a rifle, but they fire pistol cartridges, and judging by the quoted comment, anything above .38 seems to be a no-no for most people.

Ironically enough there's no restrictions on levergun calibres you can get a .44 magnum with no problem. I have heard anecdotal stories about people owning an unregistered pistol and a registered levergun and just using the latter as an excuse for buying buying the ammunition (you can buy any ammunition with a CAT A+B, but you'd likely get some raised eyebrows buying pistol ammunition).

 

[direkiller]

Get a water gun, the only type of gun worth getting. Seriously, why on Earth do you want a gun?

hmmm, lets see, protection because every single country that has outlawed or heavily restricted guns has seen an increase in violent crime while US cities are shown to have less crime when gun bans are lifted?
or because its say....pfft....a fucking gun hobby?

You're kidding right?? Despite the fact that Australia has such stringent gun laws, we also have some of the lowest gun violence. Go figure.

The US on the other has some of the highest. Who'd a thunk it??

comparing apples to OJ

he is talking about overall crime rates
you are talking about violence involving guns
one can go up while the outer goes down

(I don't care eater way I just hate when people use misleading statistics)

 

[TotalerKrieger]

I would recommend a FN Browning High Power in 9mm. Standard issue in most Commonwealth nations since the end of WW2, an excellent firearm. A Russian TT-33 (7.62x25 Tokarev) is also a good choice as it is cheap, historical and there is quite a bit of cheap surplus ammunition available (here in Canada there is quite a bit anyways).

For rifles that might be particularily interesting to an Australian, I'd go for a Lithgow made Lee-Enfield No.1 Mk.3 (.303 British). The ANZACs used this rifle throughout WW1, WW2, Korea and into Vietnam, they are of top quality. A company called Australian International Arms also makes a modernized Lee Enfield chambered in 7.62x51 or 7.62x39. Never handled one but they are popular here in Canada.

I own a Longbranch Lee-Enfield No.4 Mk.1, a Russian SVT-40 w/ reproduction sniper scope, a Mosin Nagant M44 Carbine and a Belgian FN-49. All are WW2 dated except the FN. I take them to the range a bit, but I hope to keep them in great condition and eventually pass them on to a future generation (hopefully not to be tossed into a smelter...).

OT:
Speaking as an ardent socialist, I am so tired of liberals, left-wingers and pacifists spouting off such misinformed, prejudiced nonsense against firearms. Please actually look into the realities of the shooting sports as well as legal firearm ownership in general before condemning an entire way of life found in many communities. These remarks by George Orwell capture my position on firearms ownership:

?That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.?

"Thus, for example, tanks, battleships and bombing planes are inherently tyrannical weapons, while rifles, muskets, long-bows, and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon ? so long as there is no answer to it ? gives claws to the weak."

 

[Jegsimmons]

is bordered with a country that is ran by criminals

Canada isn't that bad...

HA!!!!! that's funny, your funny.

 

[LittleJoeRambler]

I'd recommend a .22 for starters. Someone already mentioned cheaper ammo, lower recoil and less noise, and I'd like to second (or third or whatever) that opinion.

I own a Taurus .45 1911, and I love it so much. But the ammo is prohibitively expensive, even in the States. I'd start with a .22 simply for the cheap ammo: it'll let you get hours and hours of practice in without blowing all your money, and .22 handguns tend to be a little cheaper than 9mm or .38 specials too, so there'd probably be less initial cost. Once you feel comfortable with handling, using and (most importantly) maintaining a handgun, move up to bigger calibers.

 

[Malyc]

my first pistol was a classic colt detective special .38 snubnose... got it on my 8th birthday and still have it

Are you kidding me...

why? teaching firearm safety from an early age is much better than trying to teach it to an adult... I learned firearm safety and handling starting when I was 5... under supervision of course... I mean it's not like I turned 8, had never held a gun before and they just handed me a loaded pistol and said "go outside and play"

I agree totally. I grew up around guns, and was taught a healthy respect for them at an early age. Started shooting when i was about... 9 or 10, i think, got my first shotgun when i turned 14, bought my first rifle at 17 and my first handgun at 21. Still have every gun I've ever owned, as well.

 

[Thaluikhain]

really now? didnt the murder rate actually rise after the gun ban when the gov. spent 500 million dollars to destroy guns?

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847

Nope, that's not true. Er, you'll note that that article even says the murder rate decreased.

Various right wing types (you'll note the home page of that site includes recommendations from Newt Gingrich and Fox Business) love to claim that Australia is an example of what would happen to the US if the socialists take away their guns or whatever, and aren't too worried about the facts involved.

For one thing, Australia isn't a smaller version of the US, it didn't have a gun culture to speak of even before the government put new restrictions on them. Also, being smaller, it's easier for things to throw the figures out. The murder rate of Tasmania spiked massively (I think it went up somehting like 8 fold) during the year of the Port Arthur massacre, as it's a very lightly populated state and 35 people were murdered in one day.

That's assuming they bother to pick and choose their facts and figures rather than flat out lying. The NRA ran a campaign saying all Australians have to live in armoured bunker types houses due to gun controls a few years back that pissed any number of people off.

If they want to argue that they have a right to own guns, fine, facts and figures aren't really relevant. If they are going to fiddle witht he true or make things up, they can fuck right off.

 

[ElPatron]

I target shoot my handguns, but I also keep a mag loaded with self defense rounds in the gun vault with them. This is more of a "Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it" type of thing, as I hope I don't ever have to use that precaution.

The OP is in Australia.

If I had a the choice between a legal SD gun and target pistol of a larger caliber:

I would definitely use the target pistol for self-defense because I know I could justify it. I would come up with a convincing reason to grab a target pistol for SD - which isn't supposed to be a legal alternative - and not have to go to jail because our judges are somewhat reasonable.

If he kills someone in self defense with a gun in Australia I fear that the populace will cry for the imprisonment of "that dangerous gun-tooting psychopath".

And being a target shooting pistol I really doubt his case would hold up in court.

 

[StBishop]

what do you guys think?

do any of you own any firearms or even go shooting yourselves?

Being from Australia (Victoria) I'd suggest getting a long arms license first, it's a CAT A+B in Victoria, not sure in NSW, it's far more easier to obtain and can be a useful stepping stone in moving to your handgun license, meeting guys at ranges who know what you'll need to do, firearm handling practice etc. Plus they're good fun too.

Not sure in NSW, but in Victoria, there's quite an arduous process to get a handgun, involves at least six months of pre-shoots and stuff, then you usually have to get a .22 handgun before you can move on to a larger calibre.

The funny part is more people have been killed by .22s than any other caliber.

Don't worry, I won't tell Australia

It's probably due to availability. Also, that is a pretty broad statement to make without any qualifiers. The way it's stated you're saying that no other calibre in any and all situations globally (including wars etc.) in all of history has killed as many people.

It'd be hard to verify.

Regardless, I'm here to say that I'm shocked at how cheap guns are in Australia.
It's really very cheap.

my first pistol was a classic colt detective special .38 snubnose... got it on my 8th birthday and still have it

Are you kidding me...

why? teaching firearm safety from an early age is much better than trying to teach it to an adult... I learned firearm safety and handling starting when I was 5... under supervision of course... I mean it's not like I turned 8, had never held a gun before and they just handed me a loaded pistol and said "go outside and play"

In Australia where it's hard to get a gun, it could be argued that introducing a child to a gun is a bad idea.

I understand that culturally the States is very different to over here. But outside of country towns where people use guns to kill pigs, most people down own, like, or have anything but disdain for guns.

I know plenty of people that hate them with a passion and think they're horrible, and I know about 5 people who own guns.
I'm completely excluding children because I'm unsure how most of the children I know feel about guns and, well, they're children.

Be a real gentleman and buy a sword, that way you can challenge people to duals over matters of honour, and declare that the duel is to first blood. Much more civilized that way.

Or debate with words, I dunno, seems logical as our society seems to have moved beyond the idea of dueling.

I mean sure, people still brawl, but they're not the sort of people who would be adverse to bringing a gun to a sword fight.

Having a gun is about more than dueling, or being a gentleman. I mean I could just as easily tell you to get rid of your computer and use a type writer and snail mail. It's silly.