Cheating in relationships

[Terminal Blue]

Doesn't really matter though. Cheating can still happen in polyamorous relationships, it's the deception and betrayal that's key to cheating, not an arbitrary measure of who put what body part where.

Well, my experience suggests that successful polyamorous relationships (which not all polyamorous relatonships are, of course) cheating ultimately becomes very difficult, because deception just becomes pointless. If my partner was sneaking off to bang someone to the point it impacted on my life, I wouldn't feel it was malicious.. I'd feel it was stupid. Honestly, I think I'd be more disgusted that I was sleeping with someone who was ashamed of their own sex life than any conception of betrayal because why do I care? Why would my sense of self worth be impacted?

I mean, the only other thing is the STI risk but as I see it I committed to dealing with that risk when I got into this lifestyle. If you don't expect your partner to be monogamous, then it's pretty stupid not to take some responsibility. Why would I rely completely on anyone else for something that important? In fact, I don't really see why monogamy makes a difference there. After all you have no way of guaranteeing your partner is monogamous or being honest about their sexual history just because they say they are anyway. Stastically, every fourth person posting here will cheat at some point in their lives.[footnote]Although you shouldn't trust stats about this completely, as they're pretty hard to obtain within the boundaries of good research and vary widely - still, 25% is a pretty low estimate for lifetime prevalence. Kinsey was reporting 50% in the 1950s.[/footnote]

This is obviously just my feeling, but I think it's quite indicative of the attitudes of people I know who have stuck with poly long term.

It's just one way to look at it, another way to look at is is that polyamorous folks are weak and hedonistic and care only about satisfying their base urges above all else.

I also want to talk about this because both these arguments are things I've encountered and I think they aren't good responses to each other. The historical argument that monogamy is archaic is based on the idea that monogamy doesn't work and that things like cheating evidence this. The argument that poly is evidence of personal weakness, however, is not based on whether it actually works, but simply on the idea that sex is wrong and that engaging in it represents some kind of personal degradation, which is something anyone is entitled to believe but isn't really a response. In fact, this argument is particularly inappropriate in the case of polyamory as a subculture because it is a group which is so insistent that what they do is not about sex at all. I mean, polyamory, from the latin amor meaning affection or love.[footnote]I don't buy that, I don't think that separation is particularly real, but it's certainly an argument people will fall back on..[/footnote]

I mean, you could make the argument that poly doesn't work in the sense that most polyamorous relationships tend to be very short-lived and a lot of people do end up going back to monogamous relationships long term. That's certainly my memory of what the research says anyway. I mean, I'd respond by saying that no relationship pattern really seems to be working right now so who cares, but I still think it's a more genuine counter to Mikeyfell's argument than just "sex is bad, you're weak if you do it for no reason". That's pretty easy to dismiss.

 

[Terminal Blue]

Doublepost

 

[PatrickXD]

I've been the guy that girls have cheated with before, never in situations where I know the guy personally and usually without my prior knowledge that the girl is even in a relationship. Admittedly, that last part never mattered to me. I've never been in any kind of 'serious' relationship. I've dated, but I'm only 19 and the idea of dedicating yourself to one person seems a bit bizarre as of yet. Most of the guys either found out directly about me, or generally that they had been cheated on. Some girls blamed me, others wanted a relationship with me. Everyone but me got upset.
So, from that perspective, you shouldn't stay in a relationship with someone who has cheated on you - unless you're into that. It's usually not an emotional thing, to cheat, but a sexual desire to sleep with multiple partners. If someone cheats once they'll likely do it again. And if you've just caught them it's likely not their first time.
As to the second point, and again this is just from my experience, regaining trust is a myth. If you have confirmed doubts about someone they will become a sticking point in your mind. They will become the focal point of every heated discussion - let alone argument - about anything. You could debate over what to have for dinner and your brain will conclude that bringing up his/her infidelity will win it for you. So in order to even think that the relationship can continue, you have to suspend all reason.
Thirdly, no. Airing dirty laundry is bad news for everyone. Their is no real satisfaction for vindication - only an imagined one at the thought of revealing these secrets. Revenge sucks for everyone. In our mind we construct epic tales of revenge that completely ignore the most important part: You've already lost. Making that girl or guy you used to love feel like shit will not make you less of a loser. All our lives are full of swings and roundabouts, we all have setbacks and we all end up investing too much into something that will blow up in our faces one day. Take shitty times as an opportunity to reach out to people you know love you, and consider your options moving on. Don't go all in on exacting your pathetic revenge on other people who aren't worth your time.

 

[Stasisesque]

I've cheated and been cheated on, and in response to this question:

If you break up because your significant other cheated on you is it ok to post every detail on the internet for all to see, including names?

That's all anyone I don't know personally needs to know.

 

[mitchell271]

I don't take betrayal well. I was cheated on once, it was fucking horrible to say the least. She had some stuff over at my place so before she could pick her stuff up, and after I had gotten my things from her place, I donated all of hers. We still have one mutual friend, and according to him, she's rationalised her cheating to all of her close friends by saying, "I deserved it because I didn't see it coming."

Yes, I'm still bitter about it, can't you tell?

 

[Verlander]

I'm not monogamous, so my wife and I have both seen other people, and shared as well. It's the healthiest, happiest relationship we've been in.

People aren't black and white. Some folks cheat because they've found someone else, some folks cheat because they're insecure, and some cheat because of compulsion to fuck other people. The heartache is annulled when people are honest with each other.

 

[DANEgerous]

As a man who does not want to get married and has had an open relationship with 5 people at once all of whom knew this to be the case I still really hate people that cheat. I mean I would say I am rather progressive in the mindset of relationships, but this is less about relationships or even sex than it is honesty. When you say you will do something will you? If you are a cheater, no you clearly will not.

 

[Cavouku]

Having done... something that could justifiably be considered cheating (and feeling like shit about it for years, and to this day), I can say; good on you if you end it on the spot.

I was dating a girl, online, for about... 2 years, I guess, from about age 14-16. She was in the states, and I never actually met her in person. Another girl online approached me once (again, never met her), and to not go into the ridiculously naive details of a young teenager, I bit in. I never told the girl I was dating, and it ended after that one... back and forth message.

I didn't think much of it for a long while; never knew the second girl, never cared about her. I thought of it as more like interactive masturbatory aid. But then I got to thinking: "If that's how I feel about her, what in the hell do I think of the girl I consider myself to be dating? Do I even love her, or am I just telling myself that?"

It may not have been physical in any sense of the word, but the worst elements of it were all there; passively using a woman, not telling the truth (I guess I never really lied, since I was never asked, but it's the same thing in the end), and not even having the stones to confess. I was young, but... I still find it hard to forgive myself. I've had guilt issues ever since, usually with stupid things I've said or sometimes did. I remember things that everyone's forgotten or forgiven, to which I can never do either. No repentance or apology has ever eased my conscience.

Add to that I still never told the girl I was dating. I was the one who eventually broke up with her. She was devastated, and I... just felt hollow.

Maybe I should end on a better note: I had a girlfriend after her, in real life, who I never did anything of the sort on (though she was skeptical about me not having prior physical relationships. Apparently I'm a natural at a couple things). She broke up with me after about three months, for a few reasons that we can agree to be equally responsible for. We're still friends.

I had a sort of fling with a girl a while after that break up. She just wanted a little fooling, but I barely got past the first day before I just called it off. Felt... weird.

And now I'm packing my bags for first year at university. God help me.

 

[AngloDoom]

1: Why stay in a relationship when you know someone is cheating?

I've not myself, but I personally believe the problem is that the person being cheated on may blame themselves for not being 'enough' for the other person; they stay with the cheater in order to try and 'do better' and be worthy of them.

2: Why do you have to suspend all reason in order to stay in the relationship?

...Is this rhetoric or an actual question?

3: If you break up because your significant other cheated on you is it ok to post every detail on the internet for all to see, including names?

No. Why would you even want to? My personal life is just that, personal.


A few of my previous relationships have ended because I discovered I was being cheated on and a few of my relationships which didn't end because of cheating ended because they dumped me for someone else. It made me feel pretty worthless and that I was more a 'stepping-stone' for other people's confidence than an actual relationship prospect of my own. Over time, I've come to realise that I can't blame myself for the actions of these women and that the fault wasn't mine. Regardless, I'm still very wary of being in a relationship and I much prefer the single life while I'm trying to get my career in order.

In all fairness, I've also slept with a couple of women who were in a relationship at the time and although I don't think I personally didn't betray anyone, I still felt so lousy that I got no enjoyment out of the act.

 

[Terminal Blue]

The motivation behind the act doesn't directly matter, it is the act itself.

Why?

You can't have it both ways. It can't be all about betrayal and also purely the act itself, because betrayal isn't an act, it's the response to an act. Betrayal is the emotion you feel when someone else does something unexpected which personally hurts you, and a big part of that can be how you perceive the motivation. It's generally easier to forgive stupidity than malice.

What if your partner wasn't just sneaking off to bang someone? What if they were sneaking off to marry them without your knowledge? Or move out (if you live together) without your knowledge? What if you had made them aware there was one particular person they were not to bang but they were doing so and hiding it from you?

Okay, to break these questions down.

1) Obviously, how you feel about marriage is going to factor in here, but if you're in a non-monogamous relationship I think it's safe to assume that your understanding of marriage is probably different to that of most people. If we're talking literally here, I would be extremely confused. If what you're asking is how I would feel if my partner decided that another relationship was some kind of "primary" relationship. Well, I never understood myself as having a say in that, so while I might be disappointed on a personal level I don't see where the feeling of betrayal comes from.

2) Again, that's more a confusing scenario than a hurtful one. It raises a lot of questions, but I don't see why it would be particularly painful because I don't see why it would indicate any particular malice. Perhaps I have a unique perspective. My partner and I have both been renting in a major city since the start of our relationship, we've seldom lived in the same place for more than a year and quite a lot of the time we haven't lived together.

3) Okay. You're almost onto something. But at the end of the day, what would be painful is that my partner knows she could just say "no seriously, I really want to do that" and I'd have no choice but to say say "well, okay, I don't like it but it's your life and I understand you have needs". The closest thing to betrayal would be the choice, because it is a choice, not to just make clear that it's something really important. At the same time, shit happens.. honestly, literal response to that situation - I'd probably just ask that they try and keep it out of my face and leave it at that. I don't see what it accomplishes to go any further.

I know it's pretty hard to accept, because I used to be quite skeptical myself, but I really don't feel jealousy, or rather I feel like I understand why I ever got jealous well enough that I don't actually need to do so. Jealousy, I think, is what happens when you think you know someone, when you think you get someone completely and have some unique insight into them, and that turns out to be wrong - it turns out they have thoughts and desires which you didn't recognize or don't understand or which aren't about you. I don't see that as a problem though, I don't expect that I will ever truly understand my partner, but I understand enough that I can just leave the parts I don't understand be. They don't have to come back to me or hurt me because, at the end of the day, they were never about me to begin with.

That to me is an integral part of trust - accepting that you aren't always going to understand everything, you aren't always going to see where the "boundaries" are because the boundaries are negotiated between multiple people with different needs and priorities, but just being ready to accept it anyway.

 

[VaporWare]

My two bits: It's not the sleeping around, it's the lies. If people want to swing, fine, but the people they're swinging with have a need to know since it could affect them in pretty profound ways. And just as people have a right to sleep around, people have a right /not/ to sleep with someone if they don't want to be a part of that.

If you have to lie to someone to get into or stay in their pants /you are wrong/, and /that/ is what /makes/ you wrong.

Not the sex.

The lies.

 

[Alcamonic]

As I have been through the classical "best friend and gf sexing", I will say no.

If people feel so horny that they simply must fuck someone else, then I might even be fine with it if they asked beforehand. But since I believe that sex between two people who are in a relationship is something special more than just "Insert Y into X to run Biological Satisfaction" I obviously felt hurt by the process. Afterwards I didn't trust her enough to bother with any sort of "relationship".

While it might be tempting to throw shit online about your cheating ex, as some form of "revenge" for the hurt he/she caused you, you should really ask yourself if you will morally be alright with it. I do personally feel that it would not accomplice much for my satisfaction.

Just poop in a bag and ejaculate over it and then throw it into his/her mailbox. Much more effective at getting the point across.

 

[BeerTent]

I've never been cheated on, but in the past I've made girls cheat on their boyfriends with me. Anybody want the villain's viewpoint?

I justified it completely. I've always held that 'if you want something badly enough, fight for it, no matter what's in your way' and that's what I did. In my eyes, if the woman decided to cheat, it meant her boyfriend wasn't fully satisfying her emotional needs and I'd be rescuing her from an non-fulfilling relationship. At least in my mind at the time.

I think that if a person ever falls for another while already in a relationship, it means their relationship isn't providing them with everything they need from a partner. For this reason, they should end it. If they don't, it's a lot harsher than actually cheating, because from this point on they would be essentially leading their current partner on with something they know isn't going to work. For the same reason, if a person is cheated on they should end things there and then, because for whatever reason, they aren't right for their partner.

Edit: Ermergerd, Grermer

After a while though, you do tent to feel like the villain. You get sucked into these situations.

I told myself I was helping them, getting them out of a bad way, because all they ever did, mind the term, was air their bad laundry around me. So, I was the white knight. Whisking them away from this terrible relationship with this disgusting man in a dirty, bug-infested apartment.

When you realize, however, it's not the case. Their tears aren't a sign of progress, that moment of silence where she stands on your deck with a smoke, looking out toward the trees, you begin to wonder. Th'Fuck am I getting myself into?

I read a writing on social media, "We don't want your hot wreck." (Sadly, I didn't favorite it.) And I realized that most of the girls I've been with, and even myself fit this profile quite closely. Most of my relationships ended poorly, even if the sex was amazing at first. I've kind of come across the point where I've decided that I want something with substance, with trust. But if I go into these things expecting her to immediately be distrustful, how can I build a relationship like that? I don't feel that I can. I need to get out of these situations. Get that badass smoker chick out of my head. (I still want my backpack back!!) I need to get away from the wrecks and addicts. (I'll be an alcoholic when I drink more than you toke.) and stop fucking around with the girls that breed distrust and breaks reason.

I'm not saying every single relationship I've been in have been like this. Some situations I've been in I've decided to break it off fairly quickly, or she'd decided to break it off quickly (With me being the bad guy, I fully admit it.)

As others have said, Relationships are built on trust. If you cannot trust the person your with over small things and honesty, how can you trust them with your body? It may be a bit different for me, cause, well... I like it when the ol' leather and chain get involved... (Looking for a Shibari model! ) but I still feel the same even if you're not kinky. You're giving your body to the other person. This is not to be taken lightly.

I guess I strayed a bit from the OT, hunh? I guess I'm the enabler, so feel free to take your hate out on me too.

 

[Varrdy]

My mantra is that if cheating occurs in a relationship then that relationship is over. No ifs, no buts.

While I am aware that very few things are that black and white but if cheating occurs then there is something seriously wrong. I will also state that, hand on heart, I have never cheated on any of my girlfriends (what few there have been), regardless of circumstances. I will admit that I have slept with someone who WAS in a relationship (I was single at the time) but in my defence that "relationship" was going down in flames and was all but over anyway. It wasn't pretty but I still should have known better and I'm not proud of it.

Anyway - I've heard several reasons why people cheat and this is by no means an exhaustive list, they just seem to be the most common ones I hear.

- Can't stay faithful? No excuse - you shouldn't have gotten into a relationship if you knew you wouldn't be able to stay faithful. What if you own up before entering into the relationship, I hear you say. I say do you really think anyone in their right mind would enter into a relationship with someone who just admitted they can't or won't be faithful? Of course not, so you stay quiet and end up breaking someone's heart later on just so you can get your jollies. Not cool.

- It's not really cheating if... - Speaking to someone else or giving them a friendly hug isn't cheating, sure but some people really do take the piss with this one and / or convince themselves that it's not really cheating if they only swap nude images, only do oral / anal, use condoms, do it in a hotel and not their own home blah blah blah...the lines are fairly clear and if you can't see them or find yourself coming up with all manner of denial-ridden statements in a pathetic excuse to move the line then you are in for one big reality check, assuming you actually care. I'm guessing you don't...

- He / She is abusive - I have no illusions about how horrible it can be to be in an abusive relationship as I have seen what it does to people with my own eyes and I strongly urge people in this situation to get the hell out of it, ASAP! It can be scary but there are so many people ready and waiting to help you get away from an abusive partner and get them to stay the hell away from you, too. There is NO excuse for being abusive to your partner but people who are will have a long list of them, which they will see as valid. Cheating on them, no matter how horrible they are, will only pour fuel on the fire and you will end up being the one who is burned. As I said above, if the relationship has gotten to that point then it's time to pull the plug regardless! Get a clean break, take a time-out and get your head together wherever possible and then think about finding someone else, if you want to.

- Well he/she cheated on me... - See above. If things are at that point then I think it's just time to call it a day. Don't lower yourself to their level...

- The spark has gone / he/she doesn't show me any affection any more / he/she has gone right off sex - Then TALK to each other! If there are problems then the last thing you want to do is involve someone else who isn't a professional counsellor! All relationships hit snags and there could be a medical reasons, modern day stresses or you might just have to face up to the fact that one or both parties have fallen out of love with the other. Either way, you need to stand up and face the problems together, not sweep them under the rug, hide from them and/or just go find someone else to get your funsies.

- Well it WAS my Stag-Do / Hen-night - Frankly, anyone who uses this doozy needs a frying pan round the back of the head.

While I can say I never cheated on someone, I can't say with 100% certainty that I wasn't although I have no proof or admission to the contrary - I was dumped (by email) for someone else though so I have my suspicions. In any case I have seen what cheating does to people and I can say that it's a horrible thing to see.

 

[Cavouku]

I've never been cheated on, but in the past I've made girls cheat on their boyfriends with me. Anybody want the villain's viewpoint?

After a while though, you do tent to feel like the villain. You get sucked into these situations.

...

I guess I strayed a bit from the OT, hunh? I guess I'm the enabler, so feel free to take your hate out on me too.

At least you guys weren't the ones cheating.

I can tell you, whatever guilt pangs you guys are feeling, it just doesn't compare to being the bastard doing it. You always have that going for you.

Again; I was like 15, and everything happened online. I still feel like having my head smeared across a wall when it comes up, and every so often, I just remind myself about it. You feel like you never deserve to be with anyone, ever again, even for a fling. At least, in my experience, thankfully limited as it is.

...I think I'm gonna shower for a while.

EDIT: Rereading that makes me sound like an attention hogger. I want you guys to know that you're really not the problem. The one who cheats is. That girl I cheated with isn't really much more than a variable in the equation, and (not looking to belittle you or anything) so were you guys. It probably only matters if you're friends with the cheater's partner, or otherwise in a position that demands some honesty. The rest is on the cheater, and how they're handling their relationship.

 

[SilverUchiha]

I've always found cheating to be like an insane amount of work for short-term gratification and nothing more. Having never done it, I always equated juggling women to trying to be a double agent (or triple). You have to keep both sides happy and unaware of what you're doing to the other. You have to also come up with elaborate stories as to why you're not around. Not to mention you have to live your life, eat, sleep, work, etc. I can't imagine any of that being worth it. But I'm also a lazy sod who thinks that the work to get even a single relationship (while ultimately worthwhile with the right person) is a lot of work. The idea of being with more than one person AND trying to keep it secret... nope.

Not to mention the whole, doing it makes you an ass to the person you're with. Even more so if they're still willing to be with you and you keep cheating on them.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

"We accept the love we think we deserve." --from Perks of Being a Wallflower

I think about that line a lot after watching the movie. Not just in relation to cheating, but being in a relationship you don't like. It's really hard to say when it is time to get out of a relationship. Cheating is usually a pretty big point though. In the movie, I think it was more about domestic violence, which is probably a million times worse.

 

[Rattja]

There really isn't any reason to stay with someone that cheats. It's not something that "just happens" that no one has control over. If you can't control the actions of your own body, then you have a rather big problem and can't be trusted.
Unless you got raped, there is no excuse, not even alcohol.

If you break up because your significant other cheated on you is it ok to post every detail on the internet for all to see, including names?

This? No, just no.

Yes it has happened to me. Four times to be exact, with four different girls.
Take one, girl jumps into bed with a friend of mine while I am away for a week.
Take two, girl complains about being ill for a good while, then comes out and says it was pregnancy with her ex.
Take three, girl "could not wait" and runs off to get married for "security".
Take four, girl goes to Austria for a service year and the second skype call I get is her with a dude practically ontop of her.

In all of these I've just cut contact right there and then. There is really nothing to talk about at that point, at least not in my opinion. But I have never once retaliated, talked about it with names or anything.

The point I want to make here is that no matter what the other person does, and for whatever reasons they have, there is no way it justifys you retaliating in any way. Two wrongs does not make a right and all that.
Best to do is just to walk away from the situation. No matter how much it might hurt, and no matter how mad you are, just... walk away. Don't be horrible to a horrible person, nothing good comes out of that, be the bigger person.

 

[maxben]

I am joining the consensus, it is definitely the lies. My last girl cheated on me, but she broke down in 3 days and confessed everything. I took it rather well because she worked hard at repairing that trust. The long term or serial cheater is despicable and I have no idea how someone could deal with that. In our case the problem was that her sex drive was much higher than mine so after the whole incident (maybe a month later) we set down and made some ground rules on this. a) She couldn't have sex with someone I disapproved of. This was very important for me. Example: Her abusive ex. b) And if I ever feel like the third wheel she has to make a decision and cut someone off (no questions, ifs, or buts). c) I generally did not want to hear details about it. With all that it worked fine for another two years and actually solved our sex drive mis-match quite well so I didn't feel pressured and stressed. I only used rule a once, and rule b never came into effect because I was always her number one priority. We broke up for other reasons and are still friends.

At the end of the day it's just sex, a relationship is so much more. BUT, a relationship must equal trust, without one you don't have the other.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

Spoiler: Why stay in a relationship when you know someone is cheating?

Why stay in a relationship when you know someone is cheating?

There are a lot of reasons for why people tend to do this. The first and more common one is the "I love them" syndrome. In the beginning of a relationship, your significant other will usually be kind, gentle, understanding and head-over-heels for you, but after some time, they reveal their true colors. Many people will not like the 'true selves' of their partner, but are so infatuated with the stranger that they first met that they will continue to stick around in hopes that they will be with them once more. They also fear the pain of the heart break that will follow if they one day decide to truly leave them.

Another reason is that they do not feel confident enough to find another partner. Whether this notion is entirely brought upon by self-esteem issues or implanted directly by all manner of abuse (physical, mental, verbal, spiritual, etc.) inflicted by their partner, some individuals believe that they will never be able to find someone else that could make them truly happy. So rather than feel the sting of rejection that comes from dating and looking for another partner, they tend to 'stick to what they know.'

One other reason why people tend to stick around in a toxic relationship is due to family and financial obligations. Some couples are unfortunate enough to bear children into the relationship or go through financial struggles. Since they are convinced that they cannot sustain a family and a steady income on their own, they tend to ride out their misery in order to 'keep the family together with a roof over their heads,' despite the various amounts of help the exist out there from the government or family. In the end, it's best for the kids and financially to go their separate ways because the relationship can stem to hurt the children, which can be used as pawns in bitter divorces or separations.

Spoiler: Why do you have to suspend all reason in order to stay in the relationship?

Why do you have to suspend all reason in order to stay in the relationship?

Again, because some individuals are so roped into the person that they became interested in the beginning that they believe that they might randomly appear again, despite that individual never existing. Since their partner could pretend to be a nice, caring, and loving individual, they believe that they can do so in real life. However, this will never be the case, because if an individual can get away with cheating, there's very little to stop them from doing it in the future. Even worse is that if they are caught and promptly forgiven without any consequences, they are most likely to do it again without secrecy. It's a vicious cycle that needs to end with the couple setting boundaries and consequences to the person cheating or breaking up all together until they change.

Spoiler: If you break up because your significant other cheated on you is it ok to post every detail on the internet for all to see, including names?

If you break up because your significant other cheated on you is it ok to post every detail on the internet for all to see, including names?

Yes and no:

Yes, it might make you feel better and in many cases, they might deserve it, but the only risk that you run is that the same can be done to you, only it could be in the form of lies. If you want to post something, post that your former partner is a cheater, that they slept with X number of people (without including names, unless there's a reason to) throughout the duration of your relationship in order to warn others interested in dating them.

Make your post sound like a public service announcement and not a jealous, spite-driven rant.

No, depending on the circumstance of the situation, it is not necessary. Instead of wasting time and energy on someone that means nothing to you, concentrate your efforts on doing things that make you happy and possibly start dating sometime in the future.